#rustigheid

[tenderlydestroyed]

rustigheid:  Thank you so much! I will reblog this thread(?) from now and sorry for inconvenience you :(

I did forget producer can also choose the actor/actress. You’re right. According to Empire magz’s article:

Somewhere deep in the Snyder-cave is a whiteboard upon which the entire DCEU is sketched out. “Kind of a timeline of what every movie is,” says producer Deborah Snyder, who follows her husband into the Empire interrogation, “where it is going, and where the films fit in in relation to each other.”

every DCEU movies will follow Z. Snyder’s vision. (How DC has two ‘visionary’ Snyders still amaze me).

I don’t want to jump on conclusion yet there’s a high probability (from SS trailer) that Joker is a sadistic and manipulates person. He’s evil embodiment and I think Bermejo pointed it right although I disagree with his JxH. From Johnny Frost’s POV:

“…I see you. A disease. One that has been around longer than Gotham. The city infected. A disease that’s older than any city. Hell, it’s probably the same disease that built the first one. There will always be a Joker. Because there’sno cure for him. No cure at all. …Just a Batman. “

and those panels from S. Snyder and Capullo’s at Batman 40… daaaamn. It is the heteronormativity that makes some readers can’t see Joker’s infatuation, affection, and his way to worship Batman.

Somehow, I see Harley’s affection to Joker is hybristophillia, a sexual attraction to horrid criminal: murderer, rapist, armed robber. Bonnie and Clyde Syndrome. Even some of their shippers blatantly say and portray them as modern Bonnie and Clyde.

That Leto and Affleck quotes are fabricated. The font in their ‘conversation’ is not twitter’s font. You can track it down from Affleck’s twitter account and you’ll find nothing about that conversation.

That’s quite enlightening… Ah. I guess I will write Ozy’s voyeurism someday. Lol

Don’t hesitate to write him more. We (your readers) will always read your deep understanding towards him. :3 He changes himself everyday but there’s something that stays the same. If I’m not mistaken, Joker is into Batman since 70s.

Let’s hope for TKJ. May it lands in the best hands. Hehehe.

I start a new one because if we keep reblogging that it will be pretty messy I guess :D

Yes, after all Zack Snyder is the one who started this whole DCCU.  

“ I don’t want to jump on conclusion yet there’s a high probability (from SS trailer) that Joker is a sadistic and manipulates person. “

Well, i expect him to be one. Because that is who he is. And I don’t want to see him going soft for anyone. Especially not for people who are just henchmen/girl to him.  

Honestly I never liked that Joker novel by Brian Azzarello ...I never read it fully but what I saw from it, it was not Joker to me. Again there, he is like a thug with a human heart inside and also human motivations as some of his actions show. Weak imo. In my head he won’t open up to Harley like the way I saw that panel. 

In fanfics everything is okay, I mean writers might have to humanize Joker to make some things to work, but in comics/novels I just hate it when they try to make him too human. He is human but he doesn’t want to be one and since his memories are truly erased he lost connection to his human self long time ago imo.

But that quote you posted from it, I like it. 

Well, that really fits Harley, that kind of syndrome though she is also pretty desperate imo. But I never saw Joker and Harley as Bonnie and Clyde literally. Those two (as far as I know) weren’t in any kind of abusive relationship. And I think they worked together perfectly and was a real couple. H/J on the other hand... she is just a pet to Joker not a true partner the way I see it.

“ That Leto and Affleck quotes are fabricated. The font in their ‘conversation’ is not twitter’s font. You can track it down from Affleck’s twitter account and you’ll find nothing about that conversation. “

Ahhh. Yes, I also tried to find it on Jared’s twitter and nothing.... But thank you for letting me know. 

“Don’t hesitate to write him more. We (your readers) will always read your deep understanding towards him. :3 He changes himself everyday but there’s something that stays the same. If I’m not mistaken, Joker is into Batman since 70s. “

Thank you ^^  Then in the 80s he was constantly written like that. 

I will have to check the 70s comics because I haven’t read any of them. I want that famous The Joker’s Five-way Revenge.

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rustigheid:  Sorry for late reply. I rarely log in because tumblr is too heavy to load from outdated phone. orz Exactly! He wants everything about Batman. Batman created him (in a weird way). Batman is kind of unfinished world’s joke, a joke that needs punchline and Joker is that punchline. It’s really hard to see Joker without his Bat-obsession. And that SS movie, I think we’ll get a different Harley’s origin and if David Ayer portrays her and Joker as romantic pairing, I guess I’ll watch SS once only. It’s David Ayer who directs SS. He also writes it. Zack Snyder directed BvS, will direct Justice League 1 & 2. I don’t know Ozy is a gay in movie. I guess I miss it due to some censorship in tv stations here. -__- I’ll rewatch it next week. Somehow, I think Dini tried to “redeem” himself by writing slashy Batjokes in Arkham City. But his writing about Joker and Harley… maaan for some people it’s like Sauron’s ring. One canon to rule them all. One canon (BTAS) to lead people believe that Joker loves Harley in every media. I agree with you. He sees her as a tool, never a human being. “his fight with Batman because the man actually reciprocate the violence with anger and more violence and that excites Joker.” I like it. And I also love your analysis about Joker. You have many interesting things in your blog. Actually I often visit your blog via mobile. To see it is easy but to do tumblr log in is heavy. So, could you publish my future question and your answer? There is no mention yet about who will write TKJ’s animated script. I do hope it’s not Dini. What’s your opinion? I guess Geoff Johns can write them (he wrote Arkham Origins) although his Batman isn’t good enough. I want Alan Moore but he is out of question since his copyright conflict.

I hope this is okay...:) unfortunately I cannot publish fanmails normally, only asks.

Yes, David Ayer is the director but Zack Snyder is the producer so I’m guessing he has some influence on SS especially that it should fit in with BvS. Joker in SS is based on lots of comics but as I see now he will probably be from TDKR and New 52. The way he eventually creates Harley will be like in New 52. Nothing romantic and no manipulation. And I think the reason for her creation won’t be like “I need this woman” but just for fun and after it he cannot peel Harley off of himself. So the scene we saw where Joker and Harley are on the streets and they argue those are after her creation imo. But I could be wrong. I also do not want to see anything romantic between them, only one-sided on Harley’s part. I simply do not like it and honestly I cannot believe that a relationship like that, which is so human can satisfy Joker. Because if he feels anything for Harley that could be only based on humanity which I think Joker lost the moment he became Joker.

The only Joker writings I love by Paul Dini are Arkham City and Mask of the Phantasm . Nothing else. I hate his “gangster Joker with a giflfriend” and daddy kinks and all these disgusting things. I just have to puke from it. Why would Joker want someone who humanize him that much? Why would he want a relationship that just reduces his insanity which Joker LOVES? The only part I accept that Joker loves in their relationship is that Harley feeds his ego. That is true. But that still won’t make me believe she could evoke total love in him. 

Because the reason why he loves Batman is that he fuels his “insanity” and he gives Joker a reason to be Joker. Harley’s existence is about seeking humanity in Joker but I do not think he needs that. Also that would mean Joker has a weak point based on humanity. I think he has only one weak point, and that is no other than Batman.

I saw Jared joking with Ben Affleck on twitter and he was quoting from The Dark Knight Returns animation “You have gotten old, haven’t you?” So I still have some hope.

Ozymandias was gay in Watchmen yes. :) Maybe it got cut out in your country... though it was only slightly hinted: when he was watching his own screen there was a folder called: “boys”. Then also when Manhattan was standing in front of him naked, Ozy wasn’t really looking at his eyes if you know what I mean.

Well, this is how I see Joker. I could write a whole essay about him. haha.

 Joker’s language is violence. This is how he expresses everything. And the only person who is obsessive enough to play his stupid games is Batman. And he even uses Joker’s own language: violence. So of course he would love Batman for that. To him the thing with Batman is a game, Batman is his playmate. Nothing serious as in a fierce rivalry and especially nothing out of hatred anymore. He moved past the simple hatred looooong time ago. That is why I like Arkham Origins. In that not so long storyline you could see Joker’s history at once. First hatred towards Batman then obsession and eventually a deep bond and love with him. Because this is what also happened in the comics. He has come to the point where he actually loves Batman, even before New 52. Even during Grant’s run and even before that.

I don’t really know who should write TKJ... I’m skeptical about everything now. Yeah, but pls no Paul Dini. 

I’m also glad Mark Hamill is the voice of Joker but I think he has gotten old for it. I mean Joker in TJK is pretty young... almost like in Arkham Origins so I also worry about this.

[tenderlydestroyed]

rustigheid replied to your post “I want a fic where Batman feels so guilty after he slept with Joker...”

Dissolve and absolve (series) by toluenesister at ao3

Thank you for the reply!

I checked that out as others have also mentioned but my problem is that it is non-con. The max I can take between my favourite characters is dub-con.

What I would like is that Batman actually wants it and acts on it because Joker manages to make him loose control and that is why he feels guilty and that is why he is tearing himself apart because when he looks at Joker he is reminded what the clown did to Jason, to Barbara, to everyone. Despite all of this he is drawn to him and he hates himself for this with every bone in his body. He is tearing himself apart because by sleeping with Joker willingly he gave up himself, his loved ones and he also failed them and mocked all the things they have been through because of Joker. I want it to be angsty because of Batman’s own decisions.

Sorry for the rant... I just got carried away... :)

Maybe I would actually write something like this... but I’m not really good at writing so...