#samndean

[bloodlust2006]

AHBL 2x21 // Malleus Maleficarum 3x09

[sammysgun82]

do you see incest in the relationship bt sam and dean? have to admit i thought you were a wincestie bc you hate emma ijbol

I get questions of this ilk a lot. For some reason. I didn’t realize making fun of a shitty character like “Emma” had anything to do with shipping. But after quite some time in this fandom I realize nothing is that simple.

No, I don’t see incest in the relationship between Sam and Dean. I think that if you honestly, earnestly, believe this was truly being written into the show … you need help I cannot provide. That being said, ship whatever you want. People ship all kinds of things. Just stop using the excuse they are “emotionally incestuous” as an excuse to do so pleeeeease. Emotional incest (or enmeshment as it is more properly called) is between a child and a parent where the child is used to fulfill the needs of the parent in terms of spousal availability and emotional support. This often manifests itself in the child not having age appropriate interests (because it would take the focus off the parent), being made to feel guilty if they do not 100% comply to the parents demands and being forced to give comfort to the parent over their perceived shortcomings. If any relationship in Supernatural reminds me of this it is the relationship between John and Dean not Sam and Dean. John’s speech to Dean in “In My Time of Dying” hits on at least two of these points but we just don’t (canonically) know enough to make this a concrete observation. What about Sam and Dean is “emotionally incestuous” when you use the actual definition? Not much. Sam even tells Dean thank you for “raising” him multiple times which once again points to the emotional incest being between John and Dean rather than Sam and Dean at all. In s14 right before the big fucking stupid “Welcome back JDM” episode Dean also admits to a lot of this and it’s clearly hard for him to talk about. Emotional incest isn’t sexual incest at all to be clear. I just wanted to clear up this common “misconception” that a lot of Wincest fans tend to use in an attempt to… sound smart I guess? Assume their fellow denizens of whatever platform they might be on don’t have a fucking encyclopedia? I don’t fucking know.

In terms of sexual incest I see (or used to see) a lot of people saying that Dean shows too much interest in Sam’s sex life. Which makes me wonder if these people have siblings? My brothers used to brag about fucking the same girl in front of their sisters (including me). They would joke about my youngest brother being a virgin. My dad used to joke with them about using protection and knocking girls up. All of my friends were the same. I’m not saying this HAS to be a part of a sibling relationship (and I am sure there are plenty of well adjusted people who know exactly nothing about their siblings sexual exploits and good for them) but pretending this is something that sets Dean and Sam’s relationship apart as particularly alien, strange and unusual is weird to me. When you add in that Dean is always playing a role to Sam as “the cool older brother” this becomes even sillier.

Then there is the heavenly exposition rationalizations which I find hilarious because almost all of these fans claim to hate the angels, hate the direction the storyline went in terms of it not being about Samndean hunting monsters anymore etc. Zachariah tells Adam that they are “erotically codependent” and while I absolutely do think this line was included FOR the wincest fans in the audience (Kripke looooooved making fun of them as a way of soothing his male ego that most of his fans were women lmao) think about it narratively in the story the show was trying to tell. Zachariah is an unreliable narrator at best and has been fucking with time and space (the memories in their respective Heaven’s being the most explicit example) to manipulate the players in the game into doing what he wants them to. If Zachariah can mack on Sam and Dean’s mom in heaven I don’t think he’s above manipulating Adam lmao.

Sam and Dean ARE codependent. I think they both struggle with this throughout fifteen seasons. Dean always feels like he has to take care of Sam (the very first words we ever hear spoken to Dean are ABOUT Sam from John ffs) and feels guilty when things happen to him outside of his control. This is very much due to being parentified as a child. He relates to Sam like he’s his responsibility. This is obvious even if you don’t consider the very explicit times Dean actually tells other characters (Gordon ffs!) that he can’t tell Sam how he’s feeling or show him how he’s feeling because he needs to keep up the front of being “okay”. In s3 (fuck s3 seriously) what a lot of Wincest aficionados use as proof of Dean involving Sam in his sex life reads more like Dean “proving” to Sam… again… that he’s just fine with going to hell. Don’t worry about me. Nothing to see here. Sam almost has a mythological reverence to Dean at times that manifests itself in grand gestures of devotion (Sam sacrifices people for Dean, not so much the reverse as people smarter than I am have pointed out) when Dean is in peril. This is one reason I find it so hilarious that some people act like shooting Emma was a startling development. No, that’s just Sam on a Wednesday. But all of this is with the caveat that Sam never really “gets” or wants to understand who Dean really is as a person. Not that it would matter since Dean only shows him what he wants to show. They fundamentally misunderstand each other on a pretty macro level throughout the show. They love each other but don’t particularly like each other. I find this fascinating. Because it’s so true to life of many sibling relationships and because it makes them interesting foils for each other. This is when I have to give Kripke some credit for the whole Michael/Lucifer plot because they are also siblings who fundamentally misunderstand each other (for different reasons but I do get where he was going with this).

I don’t think there’s any canonical incest going on in Supernatural. I think people watched the show and wanted to ship two attractive (I guess… all men are repugnant to me) leads and that was that. The fact that the Wincest was immediate after episode 1 proves this. This is fine… again, ship what you want. Just please for the love of god stop using terms you don’t understand to make it sound “better”. There is no better. We’re all watching Supernatural in the year 2026.

[humnooshop]

Bitch & Jerk ♥

Tote bag and other products available on my Redbubble

[transchesters]

michelle pfeiffer - ethel cain (ft. lil aaron)

[stanfordpussy]

comment/ask some wincest drabbles requests!!<3 want 2 write lolol

[compo67]

Think about how familiar Sam is with Dean's profile. He's seen it evolve over time. From boyish to defined to sharp. No one knows the line of Dean's nose better than Sam. Or the curve to Dean's chin and the dip of his throat.

[flownwrong]

happy wincest wednesday (in advance, i'm actually thinking ahead for once)! I'm all about the crossovers this week: how do you think Sam and Dean's Disco Elysium stats work? They've obviously got a lot of points put in everywhere, what with all the hero stuff, but what do you think are their signature skills? Do they have any unique ones? Thoughts, thoughts <3

happy happy ww, z! thanks for the awesome question <3 (your previous one is still not forgotten btw!)

oh jeez! i can immediately see dean generally tending towards psych/phys, obv, and sam more confident with intellect/motorics (like lol e.g. i think it's more or less canon dean is a somewhat better shot, but that boy does Not know what composure even is, let alone savoir faire)

i do think they're fun custom builds though — sam is defoooo high up on volition scale, to the point it's my closest contender for signature, and suggestion—a deadly, borderline sociopathic combo, when you remember all that composure and rhetoric waiting in the wings. but with that much volition—he has a final say in what he is, always and ever, as demonstrated in swan song, the entirety of s9, the list is endless.

and no one can beat his endurance+pain threshold combo. we saw many try. it's just easier to hit him in a thinner spot (electrochemistry seems to be one. not much care over it, but also not much control. the rubys and lady tonis of the world see it plain as day. it won't make him open up to you, but it will work as a carrot for choice goals.)

dean, i imagine, lives life immersed in a conversation between half-light (isn't it fun to think of moc > demon dean pipeline as his natural half-light predisposition steadily getting maxed-out to the point it cancels out his psyche sensitivity?) and drama (which, in his case more of a genuine mutability + desire for connection and participation than a performative weapon. comes with the ability to see through it in others (ruby anyone?) and i'd go with it for signature.)

i believe all of this is modified by his high empathy turned endless feeling of responsibility, leaving half-light in more of a fear of abandonment+pessimism line of thought position than a deranged aggro position.

i'd also bet he's not bad on shivers (all those long drives in the impala, talking gently to the road!) and very much an esprit de corps guy when it comes to hunting teamwork, while sam is the resident encyclopedia king, not opposed to flexing the authority either.

all of this is just the usual framework where sam is immutable and dean is relatively easy to mold, but not easy to fundamentally change, whatever he might think about his own liabilities and failings, of course.

and a little of those unique skills, as a treat; i know DE fandom loves inventing those, which makes all the sense, we don't all live in harry's head, so.

i'd give dean the one called family business, haha. that would be john's voice in his head when it comes to all that hero responsibility paid for by own desires (it would have a field day with WIAWSNB dean or the pre-s6 family guy dean), hunting community (e.g. the whole bobby deal), taking in companions and friends to that end, occasionally finding himself in a mentor position later on. mostly unpleasant. always loses checks against anything sam-related.

sam, i'd go with boy king, lol. his natural ability to pick up and use supernatural skills that, when maxed out enough to mess with his volition, gave us the beauty of s4, let lucifer get hold of him to the degree he did in s7, and in later years made him suitable for trials and rowena's trust and occasional spellwork, but, from his point of view, is just kind of a nuisance, and a dangerous one at that. imagine what fun it would be to listen in on this tempting voice always suggesting he go back and flex those powers, it would be so easy to just—yeah.

(you said unique skills not cool skills!! unique fuckups are just more fun)

anyways. that's that. thanks again it was so much fun to think about!

[why-this-kolaveri-machi]

i find it incredible that spn started off dressing hunting in the symbols of rebellion and coolth, the cowboys charting wild territory doing their thing while normal people went about their boring lives ignorant and slow--

only for hunting to progressively become formalised and gentrified, a legacy passed down by blood, inescapable purely because you happen to be born into a particular family. even in death dean is poring over hunting defining his parents' lives during the short years they were together before he was born, in open defiance of a decade's worth of storytelling that told us that the genesis of the winchesters' story was first in john's death, then in mary's.

which is why it makes me so fucking happy that the finale ended with an incredible act of defiance from sam and that this is sustained by him not indulging in dean's predestination-essentialist rewriting of history. i hope he's meeting the friends he made during his long, long life on earth, and having a nice cup of tea. there is no greater rebellion in this show's universe.