i like the original version of this dialogue because she says she doesn't like klavier because he's "jarajara" (sfx for jangling/clinking) because of his chains and not "hirahira" (sfx for fluttering), an obvious reference to edgeworth's cravat but i like to think it refers to lana's scarf too
saw a post on twitter that compared the way apollo refers to kristoph vs. phoenix in his court records and i thought it was fascinating
in 4-1, apollo begins by calling kristoph his "trusted mentor" and [the] boss of his law offices, while phoenix is only known as a former "ace defense attorney".
in japanese, apollo uses the phrase 事務所の所長 (jimusho no shochou, director/head of office) to describe kristoph, as well as being a 超一流 (chouichiryuu, first-rate/top notch) lawyer and a teacher he respects (尊敬している先生 sonkeishiteiru sensei). for phoenix, he calls him a former スゴ腕 (sugoude, remarkable) lawyer.
i think it's really interesting that the english decided to go with the wording of "trusted" mentor instead of "respected" because the former is more straightforward given that kristoph is about to betray apollo's trust, but i also feel like it might be more accurate to say that apollo's respect for kristoph was betrayed during this case, just as his respect for phoenix was.
by the time 4-4 rolls around, kristoph's profile has changed entirely to only reflect his crime but phoenix's has also only changed from "pianist" to a "pianist who can't play a lick" (the japanese is basically the same i just put it there for reference)
in 5-2, the only thing we get from phoenix's profile is that he should be retired lol. while the japanese uses the same word to describe his skills as an attorney (スゴ腕) as his aa4 profile, the english decided to go with "brilliant former defense attorney" instead of "ace defense attorney of some renown". i do feel like this is a better translation because the japanese text in aa4 does specifically point out phoenix's skill, not his fame/renown
in 5-4, apollo calls phoenix the head of the WAA—he uses the phrase 事務所の所長 (jimusho no shochou, director/head of office) in japanese, which is the same one used to describe kristoph as the head of the gavin law offices.
it's only in aa6 where we see a significant shift in phoenix's profile; apollo refers to him as his boss, while also mentioning how much he's learned from phoenix. in japanese, he uses the phrase "head of office" again as well as 上司 (joushi, boss). i think it's really interesting that while in aa5 he's willing to accept phoenix as the head of the WAA, he's not willing to actually call him his boss until aa6...
to no one's surprise, i've actually made a chart of how the octopath 2 protagonists call each other and themselves in japanese before but i was missing some stuff so i just went and polished it up
some characters aren't very consistent with it and use multiple nicknames, so i'll go into more detail below
i'll talk about personal pronouns first just to get it out of the way
all the female characters use watashi with the exception of agnea, who uses a more cutesy/younger-feeling atashi. notably, ochette uses the watashi pronoun written out in hiragana (わたし) as opposed to castti and throne's kanji (私), which also gives her a younger/informal feeling compared to the other two
all the male characters use ore with the exception of temenos, who uses watashi (in kanji form) which indicates that he speaks more softly and politely than the other 3. ore tends to be a very masculine pronoun that also has a rougher feel to it. osvald, partitio and hikari all use ore in its kanji form (俺), and the same logic as above applies; this gives them more of a mature/serious feeling compared to the katakana or hiragana form of ore
now i'll go over each character and what they call the other protagonists!
ochette (i swear to god the others aren't this long ochette just has a lot of very specific nicknames)
ochette has nicknames for almost everyone, but she is very inconsistent with it. she does seem to call everyone by their proper names at least at some point (it's a bit harder to tell with hikari in the voice lines since she just adds an "n" at the end)
the nickname she uses for castti is ofukuro (おふくろ), which is a very casual and somewhat boyish way of calling one's mother. ochette uses this word when referring to castti's motherly tendencies as a whole but also uses it as a nickname at times
she typically doesn't use a nickname for throne, but does use the nickname munmun (むんむん), which is an onomatopoeia meaning stuffy, sultry, etc. once during the banter "the scent of danger"
the nickname she uses for osvald is tottsuan (とっつぁん), which is a casual nickname or term for an older man. similarly to castti, she doesn't always use this nickname and does refer to him by name sometimes
with partitio, she struggles to say his name during the banter "nickname" and settles for particcho (ぱるてっちょ), which partitio then rejects. in later banters you can see that she settles for anchan (あんちゃん), a casual nickname for an older male/brother, and also calls him parti-anchan sometimes. but you can see in later banters that she learns to pronounce his full name!
with agnea, ochette alternates between her proper name and agu-nee (アグねえ), which seems to be a mix of her name and nee-chan/san, which means older sister
ochette pretty consistently calls temenos by just his proper name, but does use the nickname meitantee (めいたんてー) or detective once during the banter "the case of the missing jerky"
with hikari, ochette uses the nickname hikarin (ひかりん), which is pretty much just a cutesy nickname using his name. she seems to use this quite consistently compared to her other nicknames
castti
castti doesn't use many nicknames or honorifics with the exception of agnea and hikari, who she adds -chan and -kun to respectively
-chan is a common honorific used for girls or younger boys, and mostly just implies that castti sees agnea as a lot younger than the other female characters
-kun is a common honorific used for boys or in workplace situations, and in this case she seems to use it for hikari for a similar reason as agnea - because she sees him as younger than the other male characters
this is just helpful to know in comparison to other characters' ways of speaking, but castti uses the kanji for -kun (君) instead of the hiragana, which mostly just shows she has a more mature way of speaking
throne
throne mostly does not use nicknames at all, but she is very consistent with calling osvald sensei (先生) (teacher, or as the localization puts it, professor) - while she does use his name sometimes, she will always affix -sensei at the end of it
she's used the nickname meitantei (名探偵) or detective with temenos at least once, but usually sticks to his name
the other nickname she seems to use quite consistently is with hikari, who she often calls prince (プリンス) (it's actually just the english word prince transliterated), although she still uses his name sometimes. this is more playful and teasing than a proper title for a prince (such as "your highness/denka" or "prince hikari/hikari-sama", which other npcs use for him)
osvald
osvald seems extremely averse to calling names at all, being the only traveler that does not say the other travelers' names at all during battle. in banters, he swaps between using names and just referring to others as kimi (you) i think there are a few travelers who he's actually never referred to by name at all but i just filled in the whole row with their proper names since that's what he calls everyone else
partitio
for the most part, partitio doesn't use any nicknames or honorifics with the other travelers but with one exception: he uses the titledanna (旦那) with osvald, which means "master [of the house]" and was typically used to refer to one's husband (when used by a married woman) or a male customer (usually of higher status). he seems to use this nickname very consistently, even calling him osvald no danna in the rare occasion he does decide to use his name
agnea
agnea, being the youngest traveler, refers to almost everyone with the honorific -san (さん), which is just a general polite honorific used for both those older and the same age as oneself. the exceptions are ochette and partitio, who she doesn't use an honorific with at all, likely because they feel much more casual to her
hikari is the other exception, who she uses the honorific -kun (くん) with. as opposed to castti's usage of it with hikari as explained above, this can be seen as a more casual way of calling a male friend/acquaintance (commonly seen when girls call their male classmates). she uses the hiragana version as opposed to castti's kanji version, which makes her seem younger and more casual
...i'm not sure if this is a mistake but there is ONE voice line where agnea forgets to add the -san honorific to temenos' name but considering how consistent she is with honorifics otherwise i'm going to chalk this up as an error
temenos
temenos mostly uses everyone's names without an honorific, with the exceptions being agnea and throne. he uses the honorific -kun (君) with them - as opposed to castti using it with hikari, temenos uses it for two female characters which makes the honorific imply he's using it in more of a workplace/school-like meaning. -kun isn't used for women in the same casual way it is for men, so this implies temenos sees them more as students or subordinates
that being said, he isn't super consistent with it and does refer to agnea without an honorific at least once
he does use a one-off nickname with partitio during the banter "president", where he uses the title -shachou (社長) meaning... president (unsurprisingly. i mean he also does this in english)
hikari
like osvald, hikari uses everyone's names without an honorific. however unlike osvald, he's very clear with using everyone's names and uses them very consistently
some miscellaneous notes...
a couple of nicknames also mirror their octopath 1 counterparts - throne calling osvald sensei is reminiscent of how several characters (mostly alfyn and tressa but also therion on occasion) call cyrus, and partitio calling osvald danna is reminiscent of how alfyn calls olberic. in hindsight it makes a lot more (literal) sense for partitio to use danna with osvald than the latter since partitio is a literal merchant and osvald is a married man lol
agnea skipping the -san honorific with partitio also mirrors what tressa does with alfyn, but i think it's funnier with agnea because the age gap is doubled 😭
and that's all! i think i may have missed some things (because unfortunately my friend has my cartridge right now and i have to rely on youtube footage...) so if anyone notices anything, please let me know!
i'll also put some personal observations/headcanons in a below reblog since i want to keep this one as more objective
i'm always really interested in how the characters call each other in japanese games, so i laid out a few differences between the japanese and english versions of some ace attorney games that particularly interest me. this isn't meant to be an exhaustive list but it did get really long 😭
i highlighted english nicknames/etc in blue while japanese nicknames/etc are orange just to make reading a little easier
AA1-2
while only playing the english version i liked that maya called phoenix nick, it's a nickname that makes sense and phoenix is annoying to say and write anyway (lol) but the reason maya gives for this nickname in english is that it's what larry uses for him, which pales in comparison to maya in the japanese version opting for how mia used to call him: naruhodo-kun.
to me, this is a LOT more meaningful and informative than the english nickname because it not only is evidence of how much maya heard about phoenix from mia using that nickname, it also gives us a glimpse of maya's personality and her relationship with phoenix. -kun is an honorific that's usually used for either male classmates or for teachers/superiors to use with their students/subordinates. maya falls into neither of these categories with phoenix, but it also lines up with how she acts like the boss of the office a lot of the time. SO LIKE... ultimately the nickname nick just does not hold up in terms of both maya's reasoning for using it, and phoenix's apprehension at her calling him that... which i just think is a shame!! in the same vein, this nickname is passed down to pearl, and again you see phoenix having a Reaction to it which makes sense considering it's funny that a kid is calling him naruhodo-kun...
i don't only want to talk about changes in english that i don't prefer, so i also want to mention that i'm very impressed that they managed to get phoenix and edgeworth referring to each other by their surnames in english to sound natural... because it's also exactly what they do in japanese except there, the idea of male friends using their surnames with each other is a very very normal thing. i AM torn on the fact that in japanese larry also refers to the two of them by their surnames, which means all 3 of them are on equal grounds in that respect. AT THE SAME TIME... english makes larry's "nick" and "edgey" work so well that i really can't say we missed out with this localization, but i do like the relationship between these 3 so i do like that the japanese is indicative of it too :)
AA4
i'm skipping ahead to aa4 because trucy's also a very interesting localization to me... the first time i played aa4 i felt like trucy wasn't sufficiently differentiated enough from maya's character which is like. debatable but those were my initial thoughts anyway. in japanese though she uses third-person pronouns (calling herself by her own name, minuki) which is VERY distinct from maya. there are a number of ways to interpret this choice but i like the one that indicates that it's part of her stage persona. aside from that though, she also has a very normal nickname for apollo (odoroki-san, with -san indicating general politeness) while polly is um well canonically the name of a parrot LOL
i do find it pretty interesting that the above exchange is the first instance trucy uses the polly nickname, because it's entirely different in the japanese version. phoenix says "if this onii-chan over here can't help you..." to which trucy responds by saying "how could you, onii-chan!" this exchange is hilarious to me because phoenix referring to apollo as an onii-chan is pretty normal? it's common to refer to any young man as that and in this case he's also referring to apollo from trucy's perspective. but trucy DIRECTLY calling apollo onii-chan (brother) is just so funny because HERE it's a lot closer to how an actual younger sister would refer to her older brother; there's a difference between saying "this onii-chan" and just "onii-chan". now i'm not saying this was direct foreshadowing because onii-chan is also used between close friends/acquaintances but like... the possibility is there.
AA5
now onto simon because i don't actually have a problem with the localization making him a british weeaboo i think that's really funny but i DO wish the nicknames he uses for the defense attorneys were more... appropriate? the honorific -dono that he uses in english does complement his samurai look but it's usually used in contexts where there's some respect involved, which is... not simon's intention in japanese. i'm admittedly not too familiar with the nicknames he uses in japanese; he uses "[kanji] no ji", while using a kanji from phoenix/apollo/athena's surnames. by searching it in japanese, i'm finding answers that it was medieval slang used by men usually in red light districts and such, and was used to refer to those with equal or lower status to oneself but never to those of higher status. this is kinda the opposite of what -dono is which is used for those of equal or higher status!!
i also find it pretty amusing that despite him using the first kanji in phoenix's name; 成 (turn into, grow), he uses the second kanji in both apollo and athena's names; 泥 (mud) and 月 (moon) respectively. i can only imagine that he did this because the first kanji in their names; 王 (king) and 希 (rare, hope) respectively, were too positive/complimentary for him? LOL
AA6
now i want to to talk about apollo in aa6 because NNGNRHGH i'm not normal about this one. because like, similarly to what i said up there about phoenix, edgeworth and larry's relationship, it's completely normal for close male friends to use their surnames with each other. phoenix, being apollo's boss, refers to him as odoroki-kun (mirroring how mia and maya call phoenix). trucy uses odoroki-san, indicating general politeness and athena uses odoroki-senpai, because he's her senior in their workplace. clay uses odoroki (no honorific), which is the same "level" as phoenix/edgeworth/larry's relationship.
a male character never being referred to as their first name is pretty normal, which is also the case in the aa games. franziska calls edgeworth by his first name reiji which is SUPPOSED to stand out because it's notably impolite/informal for someone who is younger than him, which suits the idea of her thinking of herself as the elder sibling. for additional reference, phoenix is only referred to by his first name by dahlia/iris; ryuu-chan ("feenie" equivalent) and desiree; ryuuichi-kun ("nicky boy" equivalent). so apollo is referred to exclusively by his surname, because there isn't anyone who's associated with him who would feasibly use his first name.
THAT IS. UNTIL we meet datz who is the first (!!) character to use apollo's first name in japanese. this moment doesn't stand out in english because i KNOOWWW datz uses the AJ nickname which is very cute but he doesn't actually use that nickname the first time he indicates that he knows apollo in case 6-3!! phoenix's momentary confusion here is also explained because while he obviously knows apollo's full name, he's never heard anyone refer to him with it!!!
so phoenix's thoughts in japanese here were originally "housuke... wait, that bracelet! that's odoroki-kun!"
dhurke and later nahyuta (during the last moments of the 6-5 trial) also refer to apollo with his first name, which is... really nice!!! they're family!!!! i mourn the fact that this distinction isn't visible in english because most characters just call him apollo but it's special in japanese... it's only dhurke, nahyuta and datz who use his first name.... i'm normal i promise
funnily enough i sort of have the opposite issue with nahyuta, who is generally referred to as prosecutor sahdmadhi in english but nayuta-kenji (prosecutor) in japanese. i'm assuming this is because his name is written with his given name first unlike japanese names, so they just used his given name instead of his surname...? unfortunately we don't have an example of any other foreign prosecutor as reference (i'm excluding van zieks here because they DO use his surname but it's also an entirely different time and place) but i prefer the english here since it also makes it stand out when apollo, dhurke and datz (with yuty hehe) use his first name with him.
but then again... rayfa also refers to him as prosecutor sahdmadhi in english, but just calls him nayuta in japanese. there aren't a lot of characters rayfa refers to by name but generally she's either overly polite (with ga'ran and inga) or overly impolite (with phoenix and apollo). it makes sense that the way she calls nahyuta is a little unique, since he's of lower status than her but not enough to get a rude nickname fdjhja... and then of course at the end of the game she tries to call him onii-(chan? san? sama? we just don't know) which nahyuta interprets as oni (demon) i think the localization here is really impressive actually. they somehow managed to seamlessly fit braid head into the mix of barbed head and horn head (both nicknames that refer to their hairstyles) while braid also begins with the same letters as brother... anyway i think i slightly prefer that rayfa (and ga'ran) call nahyuta by his first name rather than by his prosecutor title, it's indicative of their higher status because of the lack of an honorific but by the end of the game it fits in with the idea of them all being family...
TGAA1-2
you would think that because tgaa opted to leave japanese honorifics in the dialogue that there wouldn't be any differences in how the characters refer to each other but there are... first of all kazuma and ryunosuke are once again male friends who refer to each other by their surnames without an honorific in japanese, but the english has them use their first names with each other instead. i can understand this change because characters using only their surnames with each other feels oddly distant in english, and while it worked for phoenix and edgeworth's relationship it definitely doesn't suit kazuma and ryunosuke's.
additionally, the way susato calls ryunosuke was also changed from naruhodo-sama to naruhodo-san. this is... also an interesting change since it requires the player to have some basic knowledge of japanese honorifics but for some reason decided to change it anyway, despite the fact that susato also uses -sama with kazuma... one thing to note is that susato does use kazuma's first name instead of his surname like she does with ryunosuke, which helps indicate their closer relationship despite her still showing respect with the -sama honorific. in that sense naruhodo-san feels like an interesting middle ground because she's still using his surname but doesn't seem to view his position with her as equal to kazuma's? i assume that was the intent of the localization, similarly to how the way kazuma and ryunosuke call each other was changed to indicate closeness to the english-speaking player
--
anyway while i do prefer the original japanese version most of the time, my general view of original vs localization is like wow! two cakes! i might prefer one of those cakes more, but the english version usually provides enough that i like that both canons exist. because of this i can't agree with the idea that all localization is bad nor the side that believes the original doesn't matter because you're engaging only with the english side of the fandom. both are good and can reveal interesting things about the characters, story and setting!!
and thank you for reading if you got this far 🙇 i'm not an expert at japanese so i try to do my research and use multiple sources to get a better view of things, so please let me know if i got anything wrong! i also recommend checking out this post if you haven't seen it already since it's where i got some pointers on the trucy and simon segments
i just found the official(?) translation for these poems for ichigo and uryu that were added to the PV videos for the tybw anime and i think it's a shame that they didn't retain how much they mirror each other in the original japanese... a more literal translation would be something like
ichigo:
the strength [required] to shatter fate
is surely like
a blade
being swung down
uryu:
the heart [required] to follow fate
is surely like
a bow and arrow
at full draw
*i'm not fluent in japanese i used a combination of machine translation and a dictionary
really like the choice of words here and the sentence structure is literally identical in japanese... i didn't even know these poems existed until i started looking up merch because they're not in the actual anime lol
localization moment... this part made me curious about what the original was so i looked it up and:
in japanese, wocky says ペテン師 (petenshi) at first, which means swindler/imposter (hilarious because that's exactly what alita is) and then "corrects" himself and says 堕天使 (datenshi, fallen angel), to which trucy responds "i don't think you need the 'pe' or the 'da'." (just "tenshi" meaning angel)
in korean, wocky initially says 전사 (jeon-sa, warrior) and then says 타락천사 (tarak cheon-sa, fallen angel) to which trucy says "one of those is missing an extra line (referring to the difference between ㅈ and ㅊ) and the other has an unnecessary adjective attached." (just "cheon-sa" meaning angel)
i think it's interesting to see which parts of the original pun each localization latched onto!
i'm guessing? this is common knowledge? given how few people i found talking about it but my jaw dropped when i saw this official 4koma and realized phoenix and iris(dahlia)'s pet names for each other exactly mirror mia and diego's names; ryuu-chan for ryuuichi (phoenix) and souryuu (diego), chi-chan for chinami (dahlia) and chihiro (mia)
i've been very slowly replaying aa4 in korean because i emulated aa4 the first time i played it which means my switch cartridge doesn't have completed save data for 4... i thought about story mode-ing it all but i figured i might see something interesting if i play it in a different language
the korean aa localization isn't much of a localization because the names are the same as the japanese and the characters explicitly say they're japanese people IN japan but there are still a few differences that i find interesting that the korean version added:
in 4-2, when apollo meets trucy properly for the first time, he starts off by talking to her in polite/formal language because clearly he's here expecting a job interview or something, but drops it at one point when he decides he doesn't want to keep being formal with a kid LOL
Apollo: O-of course. This is the Wright & Co. Law Offices, right? (formal language)
???: ...That's what I thought.
???: Sometimes... we still get people coming here with the wrong idea.
Apollo: ...Sorry, but I'm going to speak plainly. Who are you? (informal language)
what i find interesting here is that i went to cross check the japanese version and while it does seem like he Might be a little more informal than he was previously, he doesn't literally say anything about dropping the formal language with her.
Apollo: ...Er, who are YOU supposed to be?
here's the same exchange in english just as a reference:
something similar happens shortly after when they go see phoenix in the clinic, where phoenix drops the title in apollo's name - in 4-1, he refers to apollo exclusively as 오도로키 변호사 (lit. "attorney justice", the localized equivalent would be "mr. justice") but calls him just 오도로키 (his surname without an honorific, the localized equivalent would be "apollo") from this point onwards.
Phoenix: Hello. You're here earlier than I thought. Ah, I'll speak to you plainly from now on, Apollo.
Apollo: Mr. Wright...
again, there's no mention of him explicitly dropping the honorific in japanese, particularly because phoenix calls him オドロキくん (his surname "odoroki-kun", localized equivalent would be "apollo") even during 4-1.
the "-kun" honorific equivalent does actually exist in korea but it's far less widely used hence the removal of the honorific entirely in korean... but i do find it interesting that the korean version had phoenix talk to apollo in a much more professional way in 4-1 and explicitly changing it in 4-2 once they're out of the courtroom.
Phoenix: Good morning. You're here faster than I expected. ...Apollo.
again, english version for reference:
none of this really means anything i just simultaneously find it a bit funny that despite not localizing any other part of it, the korean localization team still felt like they had to adhere closer to korean formalities instead of sticking to how the characters talk in japanese, but also i'm always interested in breaking down how characters talk to each other... since i do look at korean/japanese fanwork a lot it's interesting to see how these kinds of nuances affected different interpretations between languages too.
anyway i'm only halfway through 4-2 and also prioritizing playing other games so who knows how long this will take me but maybe i'll make a post every now and then if i see anything that interests me
