“I want to show you the new world, Carl. I want to make it a reality for you.” - Rick, 6x09
“Thanks... for getting me here. For making it so I could be who...I wound up.” - Carl, 8x09
(* I just wanna focus on those quotes instead of Carl not ‘beating this world’. He did everything and lived and died as a hero.)
“All those thing you had to do. You were just a boy.” - Rick, 8x09
“And you saw it. What it did. How... How easy it got. That's why you changed... why you brought those people from Woodbury in. You brought them in, and we all lived together. We were enemies. You put away your gun. You did it so I could change, so I could be who I am now. What you did then. How you stopped fighting it was right. It still is. It can be like that again. You can still be like that again. You can't kill all of 'em, Dad. There's gotta be something after. For you... and for them. There's gotta be something after.
I know... you can't see it yet... how it could be. But I have... You have a beard. It's... It's bigger... and grayer... Michonne's happy... Judith is older, and she's listening to the songs that I used to before... Alexandria's bigger. There's... There's new houses... crops... and people working. Everybody living... helping everybody else live. If you can still be who you were... that's how it could be. It could.” - Carl
“Carl. It was all for you. Right from the start. Back in Atlanta, the farm... Everything I did, it was for you. Then, at the prison, it was for you and Judith. It still is. It's gonna be. And nothing... Nothing is gonna change that.” - Rick
“I want this for you, Dad.” - Carl
“I'm gonna make it real, Carl. I promise. I'm gonna make it real.” -Rick
twd thoughts and on 8x09. (carl fans, dont read this.)
“Make it real” /premise
-twd spoilers and twd comic spoilers.
me as a fan, im just like in the middle of being faithful of the show rn and being a passionate fan who quits. idk yet. but i will someday. that’s how being a fan of anything happens.
i know it’s all unpopular opinion but the way the writers did it, Carl’s death does make sense storywise, and it’s like very moving in what writers were thinking.....with the future, Henry, and Carl. And Negan.
ok, Carl’s ‘future’ dream I think is what comic-Rick had thought about during AOWar-rebuilding ASZ better than before, and why he didn’t kill Negan (because that’s uncivilized). I really liked that part and it’s interesting how the TV writers took that and made it really special like. Carl, wow a what young man and a hero.
And it was during AOW and making it some new premise for TWD/Rick to make Carl’s dream real and setting it up for “The New Beginning”. I think that’s a good premise or for me, imo. I noticed Skybound ...were also thinking Carl took comic-Andrea’s death. I think so too and I also think TWD show did the’ comic-Andrea’s death’ better. Well because I feel there was meaning and something that forwards to the story. In the comics during whisperer war, comic-Andrea died but I felt like nothing special happened afterwards, storywise. But it’s probably too soon to say because it’s very recent in the comics and it’s not done. ( i just realized Carl died like tv Andrea and comic Andrea. He even mentioned prison time-s3 and how they went back to ‘living’ in s4)
So it’s like TWD show writers wanted that comic-Andrea death to happen, and Gimple thought it would fit with Carl and during AOW. Well Gimple said he wanted something to make (more?) sense to have Rick change his mind and not kill Negan and prisoned him (and then Negan’s redemption. I’m guessing because of Carl’s death). I liked that it’s during AOW because it’s after the war, it’s the “New Beginning” and we see a lot of changes, goodness, and success kind of thing.
I know that Carl is very important to the story and it was like he died for Negan to live (and Michonne?) kind of thing. Like that’s dumb writing, short term plan-writing...why do the writers want to do the comic-Andrea’s death anyway? Or why not have Father Gabe or any moral compass character to die in 8x09. But I think the show can still work, IMO and that it doesn’t seem to be like destroying the show completely or disrespecting the show and character. (like omg twd fandom is so lucky and stuff. I know I have unpopular opinion but fans that give up ..like u guys are lucky in a way that you’re not alone and the media agrees. k. As a Neal fan in OUAT ..it was so shitty on how they did it and the majority didnt care. I guess it depends on a fan and any situation. Like with Star Wars TLJ-that I feel mad on what they did. But I’m still faithful to TWD so far.) But, IMO, I also feel that TWD show still works for me because it had two premises but one premise-Rick’s show is that is more where we are at and he’s still the main character. In the comics, Carl isnt a leader yet. The show’s ending soon sorta so..it’s all Rick’s show. I think even if Carl still lives in the show, I think it’s still Rick’s show just because how long the show is and I think soon the show will end. (Cast leaving, BTS drama stuff).
However with the whole death is like why did happened? sigh. it’s also like why the tv writers care about comic-Andrea’s death ..to add it. Idk. But Gimple wanted a good reason to add in the story of Negan not dying but prisoned and perhaps anything that grieving sad comic-Rick will make sense and to adapt from comics be about tv-Carl for tv-Rick (instead of tv-Michonne?). Well I just like the TV version better it makes it the war and sadness, more deserved when we see the “The New Beginning.” Comic-Andrea’s death didn’t change ..much storywise. idk.
Idk if it’s correct but Kirkman didn’t plan to do the time-jump at first. He wanted to show how ASZ and other communities rebuild and everyone being happy. But, Michonne is sad and that kind of story is like long and not dramatic ...so he just went for a timejump. (Michonne Telltale game). I guess I’m saying the tv show made the timejump mean something and more special like.
Another thing about how the show is like not ruined completely for me is because they respected Carl (hero of ASZ) and ..I think of the premise. I think it’s about Rick. It’s interesting so far imo that we see a plot of a father losing everything. (rare plot) I think the old premise works well with the new one. At first Rick wants to save his son, and now he’s making Carl’s dream real and be a better man for Carl.
Yeah i know it’s still sucky. Like why does the show keep killing major characters? idk. So if the show keeps sucking and all, I would just think TWD ended in s7 finale. S9 is gonna crazy. Huge change again. Kang as showrunner & Gimple chief..maybe she changes things up for the better, same, or worse. Idk maybe we’ll have a small main cast and stick with them like most shows do. Better dialouge and more interactions from our faves/ladies. idk.
Anyways, I still think the writing is done well or s4-8- as usual. (They can always be improved.) I really like how Carl’s death was like uplifting..hopeful like. But, yeah I’m still like why Carl? He’s the future the heart of the show..but ok..it’s Rick’s show.
sigh. I was confused why have the Kingdom group plot but OMG the ending. Wow idk what you call it. Parallels/contrasts between what Carl said about living and doing what’s right, with clips of Morgan going crazy to protect a/for a kid, to Henry doing what Carl was like in s3 in, killing Gavin. I’m wondering what will happen to Henry. Will he be featured more and have the ‘psycho killer’ comic-Carl parts or is he a character that pushes Morgan to be in FTWD(comic Michonne pirate arc, I think). Idk Henry got potential for future plots. If Henry becomes one of the recurring characters, he could be like “Carl 2.0″ but I mean he got that comic-Carl pyscho parts that I think tv-Carl doesn’t really have..he’s more like a better man ..more compassionate. idk. Ofc, we don’t care as much for Henry but, I think Carol and Henry might have some future plot later on.(like Michonne and Elodie?) idk. I miss Carick... Carol with Team family.
interesting post and comments. TNB arc may make the show interesting again for some fans. I am interested in after the timejump but who knows if different medium works well or not and how the writers do it. Plus other BTS changes too. so idk. I just wanna see everyone what they are like and they look like after the timejump. Also, this reminds me how ..well some annoying parts of the show may still continue..because of what Kirkman wrote and stuff. Like I think there’s more main characters separated far apart. etc.
uh basically, I think we just want to know what’s the endgame and feel sure when the show ends. Right now I feel like it’s hard to be faithful and excited about the show when the show is old, cast going away, BTS drama, and we don’t know the ending .. or what kind of ending. Story ending naturally or when AMC ends it with Negan and Daryl show. sigh.
I haven’t really thought of what’s next after Carl’s death ..or s9. I’m like in denial or actually I just want to see how s8B goes first, and then decide and wonder. (winter hiatus ugh so much to wonder and go crazy) I guess most people are doing that or they quit now. Well I did some thinking anyways, since I keep seeing people asking ‘what about comic-Carl’s arcs?’ and not what’s the premise now?-well maybe they are asking that.
I also speculate on other characters and my ships. my head is going crazy.
*comic spoilers! *tv spoilers!
- check out my tag #*twd s8 spoilers or #*twd for more of my thoughts.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Anyways, so I just think anyone can take (after the time-jump) comic-Carl’s multiple plots, and the show goes like as usual-adapting and some remixing from the comics. The show have done it already with comic-Andrea(one of the big characters). So, Daryl, Enid,Henry, Judith could take some comic-Carl’s plots???
There’s that premise of the show, ‘father and son’ thing and seeing ‘son becoming a leader’. If the show really wants to keep continuing that same premise of ‘father and son’, then it’s like Rick and Judith playing that way, and some other arcs. I kinda wonder about Henry(kingdomer) and Carol as the mother and son trope thing. It could be Rick as father and Henry as the son/future leader and they both be that way back and forth in the story. But, that seems confusing, outdated, and well he’s not Carl.
So, I’m hoping ep 9, the writers will say what’s the new premise or something that would make sense of when looking back at TWD as a whole. Merging both premises. (I know people have different reasons for watching. Some don’t care of the premise or casual watchers, or don’t care to look at the big picture but just to keep going forward in the story.) Um, I’m hoping to see Carl telling his dad to thank him for raising him and ... Oh I’ve seen some quotes from Riggs saying that Rick will follow Carl’s lead, his hopes. I think Rick will honor Carl. So, then the premise is changed and explained. I hope it makes sense and done right ..to me in ep 9 and on. Also, it reinforce that TWD show is always about Rick and will always be. Not like the comics, where it will be about Carl’s story. If the writers didn’t explain the new premise well and not makes sense for me, maybe I would lose interest in the show or so. I probably lose more trust on the writers (which is bad thing to feel that way). Idk just my opinion and I liked that they showed Carl as a hero in ep 8. There’s no right answer to it. (ofc also want the show to end it on the writer’s terms and not unexpectedly cancelled etc.)
The death of Carl really changes the story and really diverted from the comic’s story. Like Idk even know what Carol, Daryl, Tara, and Morgan and others will do. Even Enid too. It’s harder to speculate now. These characters that are not from the comics or living longer than the comic counterpart. There’s now more options that one of those characters could take comic-Carl’s plot and stuff. This also give opportunities for the writers to do original stories too like before but now more than usual. (Grady hosp., the scavengers, oceanside?)
-Caryl. Thinking of the worst, I really hope Daryl doesn’t take comic-Carl’s part of meeting (adult) Lydia and starting that relationship. That’s would suck and it’s not the same in the comics as in that it’s comic-Carl’s first love. What about Enid, who is Carl’s first gf and adapting from comic-Sophia. It’s all confusing. So far, imo, Lydia isn’t that important in that plot. It’s the part of introducing the Whisperers and learning about them ..from Lydia. So TWD could not make her a love interest or just have someone who informs us and the team family. So, I hope they don’t pair Daryl with Lydia. I’m hoping for Caryl to happen soon or canon off screen after the time-jump. This Caryl thing is hard. I love this pairing, still feel that they’re still Caryl~. But I really don’t know what’s next based on the comics and we wait a long time and nothing more happens with their relationship. I want confirmation of what they are. idk maybe they be canon at the end of the series sigh.
-Speculating on Daryl, I can kinda see him being like comic-Dwight like what they did in s7. I kinda see some plots from comic-Carl (wanting to kill Negan), ..comic-Michonne ..in the way of leaving Rick/ASZ. I don’t know.
-I really don’t know what’s next for Carol. I do think the writers are foreshadowing Ezekiel’s death. So, if she starts a romance with him, it’s sad because he’s gonna die anyways and she’ll be sad again. Based on the foreshadowing, I think Ezekiel will die in s9. She’s been following comic-Michonne. But, oh boy since Carl died, I feel that changes Carol and Michonne’s arcs. Well, with speculating on the comics that the writers adapt and remix from. I know tv writers can change it up anytime. It kinda makes me think Michonne will go back to comic-Michonne’s plots.
-I’m kinda thinking of Richonne and I’m like OMG there’s so much heavy stories potential for Richonne. It’s not just Richonne but also just Rick and just Michonne. We already saw some glimpse of Michonne’s PTSD, losing two sons, moment when she slaughtered the savior guy. So, I think Richonne will live till the end of the show. Richonne are like the leading characters of the show. “Rick’s show” But it’s like close to being “Richonne’s show” because they’re both are honoring Carl’s hopes. They’re Carl’s parents. This is so different from the comics. Comic-Rick and Andrea didn’t deal with this situation during AOW. So, whatever Richonne will do in s8B will be original. And in s9, I think will be still original or their dynamic really is different than comic-R&A.
-I also think the writers thought ”to kill off Carl or Michonne die based on comic-Andrea”, and they chose Michonne to live. Or, other TV/business reasons. I think that is based on comic-Andrea. I would really hate if Rick will lose Carl and Michonne after the Whisperer War.
IF, the show lasts that long and writers thought Rick needed to have something in common with Negan-losing a wife(I think). I don’t like this idea. I read the comics and I still don’t know what’s the point of comic-Andrea’s death yet. Losing Carl already impacted Rick, so losing Michonne later on..just makes it’s so hard on Rick. Is comic-Andrea’s death is to kill off comic-Rick later on? But he’s not losing his mind and he still has comic-Carl and Mikey(kinda adopted son) right now. So, I think Carl is based on comic-Andrea’s death and that it also starts up Negan’s redemption and I think that the writers wanted to do that early in AOW and not WW. So, no need to kill Michonne, imo. The writers said they’re bridging the gap or hole for why Rick wants Negan to live in prison cell (Carl’s hope) and not be killed off. I guess I’m also saying that I think the writers are thinking that comic-Andrea’s death relates to Negan’s redemption. (in the comics, I think Negan’s redemption was done well, imo. I hope tv version can show it well too.*maggie) I guess I’m also saying that Negan is big character too in the story. He is in the comics and that’s how it is...so if anyone hates Negan..stop watching it then, I guess. Negan is like one of the main characters and impacts the story a lot during this time in the show and still is in the comics. Idk it depends on how long the show lasts and what the writers will do, but I think Negan is gonna be important in the story. So I guess writers thought killing Carl will start up the new premise of the show and set up the redemption arc for Negan, and Michonne lives on.
So there’s a lot of changes and it’s all up in the air. It just depends if I still trust the writers or still the show. I do think s8B and s9 & on is gonna be like a new show. “Rick’s show”
“You put away your gun. How you stopped fighting? It was right. It still is. You can still be like that again. “
This quote from Carl to Rick, in the s8B trailer, kinda reminds me of Rick’s quote (about his great-grandfather in the WW2(?)) in s5 ep Them. “We do what we need to do and then, we get to live. But no matter what we find in DC, I know we'll be okay. Because this is how we survive. We tell ourselves... that we are the walking dead.”
Also Carl’s quote that he had been saying to Rick in s8A&B, “you’re gonna live, Dad.”
“Before mom died she told me I was gonna beat this world. You will.”
(*)idk s8 ep 9 is gonna be a huge moment in the story. It’ like the show’s outline/agency or Rick’s character journey moment. It’s like they’re changing premises..changing the story.
