Localization Differences: Niles! Happy Belated Birthday, my beloved.
I wanted to get this done by his actual birthday on the 22nd, but things kept coming up, so here it is now.
Niles is one of my favorites in Fates' cast. He has a very handsome design, he's incredibly useful in gameplay due to his stats, weapon type and capture ability, and he has extremely good supports that give glimpses into his life, pull uncomfortable truths out of others, and offers a sight into the hard life that many Nohrians are forced to live.
One of the most notable things about him, though, is that to a lot of people, he's one of the two first explicitly queer characters introduced in Fire Emblem. I personally find this to be inaccurate given that lots of homoerotic relationships and queer coded characters have existed in the series, arguably stretching back as far as Thracia 776. Other popular examples are Raven/Lucius, Lyn/Florina, Heather, Kyza, Ike/Soren, etc.
Though after Awakening's massive success, the "almighty" S rank takes priority in many readings, so Niles and Rhajat having that available with a Male Corrin and Female Corrin respectively, was massive progress.
Now, do I think one of the explicitly queer characters in FE being a sadist who antagonizes people counts as good representation? No. But 1) that's not the point of this post and 2) going by that tier list I did, I see lots of other characters in Fates as queer than just Niles and Rhajat.
Anyway, I digress. The point of this (extremely long) post is to list and give my opinion on the changes to his lines (and potentially his character/personality) between a translated Japanese script and the localized English script done by Treehouse.
Here is a link to my post of translated sources!
As always, I'm only gonna list things that I find significantly different. Get cozy, this is a massive analysis! Thank you for reading!
To start off, there's two things to set the stage. The first is that Niles is one of Fates' characters that got a completely new name in localization. His Japanese name is Zero, so if I use that name at all in this post, that's why. I might flip-flop between other characters' names too, like from Corrin to Kamui, for example.
The second thing is that, overall, Niles' Japanese lines tend to be coated in innuendo and double entendres. Many times, these only really make sense if you speak Japanese, which I don't, hence why I tried to defer to translations before running things through a machine. For example, I've learned from some translators that when JP!Niles says that he'll "send his enemies to heaven/make them ascend to heaven", it's a statement in Japanese that also works as a euphemism for making someone orgasm. I'm not gonna spend too much time pointing out every instance of JP!Niles saying raunchy stuff, but will if it's particularly funny, striking or outlandish.
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Classic Mode Retreat Quote
Japanese: Sometimes pain feels good, but I'm about to reach my limit here... I don't want to upset Lord Leon, so I'm going to retreat now...
English: This doesn't feel good anymore... I must retreat while I still can. I'll live to suffer another day...
-If you know Niles, you know his connection to Leo is extremely important to his character. Not just because he's Leo's retainer, but because Niles meeting Leo changed his life forever. So, while removing that one line doesn't sound too outrageous at first, it gets kind of silly when you think about it.
Most of the first gen men in Fates retreat instead of die in Classic mode due to avoid consistency issues if you've unlocked their child's paralogue. However, though they retreat, they still aren't deployable anymore in Classic mode, with the explanation being that they took such grave injuries that they can't fight anymore even though they survive.
Niles/Zero, in his Japanese quote, is pulling himself back from the brink of death because he doesn't want to upset Leo, even if he can't fight anymore. This is a twist on how initially, he begged Leo to kill him after being abandoned by his criminal gang, before Leo hired him as a retainer based on fascination/curiosity with how Niles was acting. All retainers in Fates are close to their masters, but some are closer than others, such as Niles.
Critical/Skill Activation
Japanese: I won't let you get away!/Let's go.../Take it all in!*/This is gonna hurt!
English: You can't hide from me!/Here's a taste.../Ohhh, yes!/Time to suffer!
-Both sets are delightfully fucked up and lewd, but I wanted to draw special attention to the one I marked with an asterisk.
Again, I don't speak Japanese, so I may be way of the mark, but the quote "Take it all in!" in Japanese is 受けてみろよ！or transliterated as "Ukete miro yo!"
Running that through machine translator reads it as "Give it a try!", but I've also watched a Japanese Fates crit quote video where it was translated as "Out of my face..."
But I think I cracked the code: it's a top/bottom joke. It's basically a "Take this!" quote in context of battle, but "Ukete miro yo!", phonetically, is also used in the Seme (top) and Uke (bottom) tropes in BL. So I think he's telling his enemy to 'take his dick', if you wanna be coarse about it.
What solidified this for me, is Nina's Japanese crit/skill quotes. In the Japanese version of Fates, the children share crit/skill quotes (or put some spin on them) with their direct parents. Nina shares "Let's go.../Take it all in!/This is gonna hurt!" but not "I won't let you get away!" because that's what Niles shares with Leo as his retainer (yeah they doubled up on crit quotes a lot in this one lol)
So Nina's fourth crit quote is unique to her, and she says 攻めるわよ！, transliterated as Semeru wa yo! (I'll attack you!) Again, it's a Seme (Semeru wa yo!) and Uke (Ukete miro yo!) euphemism joke. Cuz she's the Fujo. ...I spent a lot of time on this section lmaooo.
The other battle lines for Niles are pretty faithful or otherwise appropriate localizations.
Level Up
0-1 stats: Well... sometimes bad things happen. (JP) How unfortunate. (Eng)
2-3 stats: It's still not enough for me... (JP) I deserve better. (Eng)
4-5 stats: I feel good... (JP) My power is growing. (Eng)
6 or more stats: I can't go easy on you anymore. (JP) My gain will be another's pain. (Eng)
0-1 stats with most stats maxed: It was you who made me this way. (JP) Alas, I am at the height of my powers. (Eng)
-Overall, kind of a mix-and-match between versions, with the JP version being more suggestive and the English version being more powerhungry/sadistic. Neither is out of character.
I do lament the loss of sincerity from his maxed stats quote from Japanese to English (I could be misreading this though, I just think Niles is talking to the player)
Class Change
Japanese: What do you want me to do by dressing me like this...?
English: How quaint.
-Japanese is suggestive, English is weirdly boring? Quaint is not a word that's easily applicable to all situations when it comes to class changes, so meeeeh.
Mess Hall
-Not much to say here, but in Japanese when he eats a bad meal, he asks if there's an aphrodisiac in it, which is pretty funny.
My Castle
-Besides some suggestive flirting being removed or toned down, a couple lines were changed at the gathering spots. In the English version, at a rice paddy he says "Think rice is boring? Think again. I eat it at every meal." while in Japanese he says "Cooked rice is so beaitiful... It's like it's seducing me with its shiny white body..."
In English, at the dairy farm he says "Here, take this. It's good for your bones." while in Japanese he says "Look, milk. When I miled the cow, she mooed with joy..."
Birthday
Giving him a present: To think that my birth would be celebrated... I'm grateful. (JP) The world changed the day I was born. Thank you for acknowledging that. (English)
Saying happy birthday to Corrin: It's your birthday... You should be thankful for all the days since you were born. (JP) Birthdays always make me think of death. Oh, by the way... happy birthday! (English)
-The English ones are funny, but Niles is already funny just through his euphemism schtick. The genuine sincerity being removed makes me sad.
Conquest Chapter 8
-Niles introduction in this chapter is pretty much the same, it's actually mostly Odin who has more line differences. Though this is where the "I'll send them to heaven/make them cum" line pops up for Niles, so I thought I'd mention it.
-Like the rest of the script in Conquest, it is pretty faithful, if a little more bland. But it can't be helped sometimes, given how English and Japanese work so differently as languages. Now Birthright on the other hand...
Birthright Chapter 18 Standard Boss Quote
Japanese: What a nice face you have. I find that look of desperation irresistable. With Lord Leo's permission... I'll do something good for you...
English: Say that's a nice face you've got there. Would be a shame if someone were to slash it. Let's have some fun, shall we?
-Love when Treehouse inserts memes into things that date the game immediately, loooooove it /s "Would be a shame if something happened to it" was an old meme even by 2016, jesus.
Vs. Corrin/Kamui (Japanese)
Zero: So... You're Kamui... The traitorous brother that Lord Leon hates enough to kill...
Kamui: He wants to kill me? Leon...?
Zero: Haha, what a splendid face you're making. The pain in another's face is sublime. Twist it up more for me, I want to see you cry.
Kamui: Huh...
Zero: ...Come on now, you're here to fight me, aren't you? I want to pierce you soon, too... with this thick arrow of mine.
Kamui: !!!
Zero: Hmmm? Are you scared? ...It's okay, I'll be gentle. The pain will be gone before you know it... Once I send you to heaven...
Vs. Corrin English
Niles: So, you're the little thorn in my master's side, are you? Very well. If he wants you dead, who am I to argue?
Corrin: I still can't believe it. We lived as brothers...
Niles: Oh, yes. The suffering on your face is simply delicious. Now, let's see what happens when you have a few more holes...
Corrin: You're sick!
Niles: Oh, please. This is war. This is my job. I'm good at what I do. I'll try to make this painless so you can die in peace. Deal?
-This one is confusing more than anything. Niles sort of has the same lines/message here, but Corrin in Localized Birthright is generally so fucking insufferable that it bleeds into here as well. He talks as if Niles isn't even there, and then calls him sick, which, yes it's true Niles is fucked up, but Corrin is SUPPOSED TO BE EXCEEDINGLY SWEET AND FORGIVING. This extends to his enemies as well, he's very polite with the retainers of the opposing side. Niles isn't any worse than Zola, yet Corrin has worse words for him??? It's weird.
-The other story moments Niles has aren't signifcantly changed to where I feel the need to mention them, even Birthright. Again, it's actually Odin and Leo who are more altered, but that's neither here nor there.
Ghostly Gold
Japanese: You're so naughty. Even like this, you still want more? This place *is* pretty fascinating, but... These are also sacred ruins not to be disturbed. Were a thief like the former me to find out about this place, it'd be quite troublesome. To honor my orders and silence you... I'll make you come by my own hands.
English: Last night was a cinch for me. I always sleep with one eye open. You never know whose grabby little hands might end up in your pockets.
-Some lines in Ghostly Gold, regardless of language, either discuss the gold/treasure, the enemies, or how the army stayed up all night to catch the thieves. Niles' got changed from one to another.
The Japanese one is pretty standard when considering how Niles has moments of sincerity in the Japanese script as it is, but again, losing it in the English version for something completely different? It's not only disappointing, it's confusing. Did some of the people on the job when localizing just not have the original script? Or did they decide just to change it because they felt like it? It's truly dumbfounding to me, how this particular scenario happens in Fates so much.
Boo Camp
Japanese: Please be gentle with me...? I'm not used to things like this... What do you all expect, putting yourselves in danger in a dark place like this. At least if I were a monster like you, I'd take everyone who comes here to the cruel edge of ecstasy. (I'd make everyone who comes here cum cruelly? idk)
English: Be gentle, boys... or whatever you are. I don't know what we expected, making ourselves so vulnerable in the dark. But you'll find out like all the others that I give as good as I get.
-Omg, Vers King Niles in the English version... That's all I have to say about this, it's faithful, and a really great example of how to keep suggestive euphemism while not being a literal translation.
-The other DLC maps with character dialogue don't have too big of changes, or at least ones that give insight into Niles to mention.
Niles' Father Support with M!Kana
-A rank: Pretty much the same until the very end, where in the JP version, after promising to have a night in with Kana and Corrin, Niles says “Haha… I never thought the day would come when I would be sleeping peacefully with my whole family. I have always wanted to destroy other people's happiness, but now that I have it for myself, I want to protect it at all costs. Perhaps I'm the most selfish one…” Calling himself selfish is in reference to earlier in A rank, where Niles says parents can act selfish since they sometimes want their children to stay reliant on them so as to not feel lonely, even if they understand that they must fly the nest someday. Because this is a variant-parent conversation, the meaning is the same if Kana has a different father, though instances of unique characterization come through at times. In Niles’ case, it’s his referencing how he’s usually sadistic in dealing with others, especially those who grew up privileged. However, now that he has a family and is surrounded by love, he understands the feeling of wanting to protect happiness instead of ruining it.
In the English version, the line is instead “Heh. Never thought I'd be spending a night in with a family of my very own. So this must be happiness, huh? Maybe it's something worth protecting after all. Looks like Kana's not the only one who's changing…” The general gist *is* there, but the different wording can make it seem like Niles doesn’t know what happiness is, which would be kind of odd for his character; to be a sadist who delights taking happiness away from others, you have to know what it means. Niles knows what it means, and is resentful because he never got it before. I’m also very nitpicky, though, so I could be overcomplicating things.
Niles’ Father Support with Shigure
C Rank: JP version, Niles says that Shigure’s talents for art can captivate people regardless of gender, another example of a unique line variant depending on the father (for example Hinata relates Shigure’s interest in art to his interest in swords, Saizo tells Shigure that he shouldn’t focus on art during a war despite appreciating is talent, etc.)
For Niles it’s interesting here, since it’s in reference to how Niles is also attracted to multiple genders.
In the English version, Niles instead says “I think your work might turn a few heads.” The same message, but it lost a bit of spice.
There’s nothing else really important to mention, but in the JP version during the A rank, when Shigure’s running late and out of breath to the art exhibit, Niles asks if he’s out of breath because he got laid, which is really fucking funny.
Niles with Subaki
-In the JP script, there's more of an amicable attempt at building friendship from Niles. During B rank, he says "it'd be great if two warped people like us could get along." referring to how Subaki's perfectionist mindset is obsessive and destructive. The English version has him say "The mighty Mr. Perfect reveals a crack in the facade! Strangely, that just makes me hate you less." which is more impersonal.
During A rank, while Subaki is venting about how tired it is keeping up appearances, Niles offers different things between languages. In the Japanese version, he offers a massage (he's good at massages, also revealed in his father support with M!Kana) to take Subaki's mind off things, and Subaki accepts and is genuinely grateful towards Niles.
In the English version... he asks Subaki to 'give him some of his burden' by taking his worries and placing them in his hands. Not in a suggestive way, he's being for real in how Subaki should do this weird mime act of putting his worries in Niles' hands. And replacing the line of Subaki thanking Niles, he instead asks Niles what he plans to do with his worries, to which Niles says "Don't worry about that. I'll put them to good use. Heh heh..."
This was just confounding? Like, okay, I get it, Niles is perverted, so by association offering a massage is lewd itself. But if you're gonna change it, write something with the same energy, not this mime act that ends on a very awkward and clunky note. The JP version reads as if they're finally friends or amiable, the English version is still distant sounding.
Niles/Zero with Mozu/Mozume
-For context, Mozu has been visiting her run down village looking for a special jewel, and Niles has been following her. They discuss her losing her family. During B rank, in the Japanese version, these lines are said:
Mozume: Have you ever lost someone and felt sad? Don't you know what it's like to lose something?
Zero: Oh, I don't know. I just wanted to see your face twisted in pain.
Mozume: What... what did you say!?
Zero: I love seeing the pain on other people's faces. It makes me want to torment them more and make them cry... The reason I became interested in you is because I knew about your village's past.
Mozume: You're a terrible person...
Zero: But... it's been very boring. You're already suffering and griveing enough without me having to do anything.... So I've lost interest in doing anything to you. Don't worry.
Mozume: What a selfish person...
In the English version, this is said instead:
Mozu: Haven't you ever been upset when someone passed? Don't you know that knot in your gut when you lose someone?
Niles: ...That's neither here nor there. I prefer not to dwell on those things. Better to live for the pleasures of the now. I could give you a demonstration, if it would take your mind off things.
Mozu: Th-this is hardly the time!
Niles: If you want to wallow in pain and misery in the ruins of your home, suit yourself. But my offer still stands if you'd rather have some fun instead.
Mozu: You... you're horrible...
Niles: And you're boring, which is worse. It wouldn't take much for me to make you feel better. Believe me, I know lots of ways. But I can see you'd rather be miserable, so carry on without me.
Mozu: Wh-what a self-centered jerk...
-So, the English version has Niles offer to hook up with Mozu in the ruins of her home. Furthermore, Niles in the English version keeps pressing the issue in "making her feel better" and fucks off when she rightfully rejects his advances. But in the JP version, there's something else here.
Niles' code is poking at people who haven't suffered *or* people who pry into others feelings for no good reason. Saying outlandish stuff is a defense mechanism for him, he does that to actively push people away. This is discussed in his Japanese support with Azura, which I'll get to later.
Niles took an interest in Mozu's situation because he knows something fucked up happened to her (Niles is actually quite compassionate to others who have suffered greatly once he finds out about it), but when Mozu asked him about if he ever felt loss, she *unknowingly set off his defense mechanisms* and he responsed like an asshole. A rank concludes with Niles having recovered the jewel that Mozu was looking for, which is what he was intending to do ever since Mozu first told him about it during C rank. Mozu isn't at fault whatsoever, it's just Niles couldn't help responding cruelly.
BUT, this only really works in the JP version, because instead of offering to hook up with Mozu to make her feel better, he instead says that "I don't know [if I ever felt the pain of loss], but I do like seeing other people's faces in pain" which flows better as a conversation. Couple that with how Niles says he won't bother her because she's suffering enough, it displays that Mozu isn't the type of person he would target, it just came out because of Niles' trauma response. This doesn't work in the English version because Niles implies that Mozu is actively making herself sad, which is not only incorrect, it dulls Mozu's situation and screws up Niles' secretly compassionate side. Just... :///
Niles/Zero with Arthur/Harold
So there's stuff concerning the entire chain, but I'll focus on B rank and A rank for now.
In the Japanese B rank, there's this exchange:
Zero: If you don't trust me, then maybe I'll go bust into that mansion for real.
Harold: In that case, I'd have to deliver judgment onto you. I've received a request to stop these robbers.
Zero: Hmph. Whatever, just try not to make it too easy for them.
Harold: ...That's suspicious.
Zero: What is?
Harold: People like you who try to unnerve others often have something to hide. They keep their distance from others so nobody can discover their secrets.
Zero: You think that nonsense passes for actual theory?
Harold: I did come up with that one on the spot, so...
Zero: Right, I thought so.
Harold: I don't care what sort of life you lead, but there's something you're hiding, speak now.
In the English B rank, it's changed to this:
Niles: You've given me an idea. Perhaps, I will join up with this band of merry thieves...
Arthur: Oh, come on! You can't be serious!
Niles: Maybe I am! What are you going to do about it?
Arthur: This is suspicious...
Niles: Wait. You're actually ACTUALLY serious.
Arthur: Well, joking about a crime is a well-known defense technique. Because, if you joke about it, surely you wouldn't actually DO it, right? Oh ho! Thought you could outthink Arthur, did you, evildoer?
Niles: Your logic is breathtakingly stupid.
Arthur: Is it? Darn. I did just kind of make that up.
Niles: Yep. It was obvious.
Arthur: Well, you can make fun of me all you want. But if you're hiding something, you better tell me now.
-The English version kind of has Arthur go "Dumb Cop" mode by doing a pretty vapid investigative trick, but in the Japanese version, he doesn't exclusively reference the crime. His theory is that Zero talks outlandishly to others in order to keep distance from them... which is EXACTLY correct, that's what he does and why he does it. Zero rebuffs him and tells him it's stupid because of that very same idea, that he doesn't want Harold prying into his business. Harold only connects this to the crime at the moment because he believes that "well people who talk like that to others must be hiding something, therefore he must be hiding something regarding this band of thieves he used to work with." The end point is wrong, but the reasoning is correct, even if Harold admits he made it up on the spot. (But that's also supposed to tie into how he's the grounded/emotionally in-touch Axe Fighter for Fates, he was written intentionally to be very good at reading people)
This was kind of scrubbed from the English version, with how Niles eggs him on by dancing around the subject of the thieves and how he might work with them, and Arthur/Harold only centering his reasoning around *criminal activity* instead of the thought process/psychology of Niles/Zero himself. This dumbs Arthur down while making Niles more childish.
Now for rank A. For context, Arthur subdued the thieves but saw Niles sneak into the jailhouse and assumed again that he was working with them. However, he then saw how Niles was lecturing the group and trying to get them to reform, and Niles explains by going into his past. Afterwards, in the Japanese version, there's this exchange:
Harold: I never imagined you had such a past... Thank you for telling me. I see you had nothing to hide today.
Zero: What's that supposed to mean?
Harold: You didn't use your usual, unpleasant manner of speech while you were talking. That's proof that you weren't hiding anything.
Zero: ...The hell are you talking about? Is that another one of your stupid, spur-of-the-moment theories?
Harold: And if it is? Just because it's spur-of-the-moment doesn't mean it's wrong. I felt moved knowing that even you can speak candidly. Alright, now let's go tell everyone what we just discussed. If we do that, they'll all understand that even you can speak properly in the right situation.
Zero: No way. Now get outta here unless you want me to plunge a thick arrow-shaft into you.
Harold: ...Whoa there. I see you're still hiding something after all. But you're cute, so I'll let it slide.
Zero: Huh? Cute?
Harold: What you're trying to hide is your own embarrassment. Feeling embarrassed from hearing my praise, you switched back to your unpleasant way of speaking. But it's no use hiding from me now, I know everything.
Zero: Why you...
Harold: Let's get along from now on. If there's anything you need to talk about, don't hesitate to ask me. As someone who understands you now, I'll listen to my heart's content.
Zero: Tch...
The English version replaces that with this:
Arthur: Thank you for sharing that, Niles. I should have relied on Lord Leo's judgment and trusted you from the start. Now then! I'm off to tell everyone about what a great guy you are!
Niles: Um, that's reall now necessary.
Arthur: Of course it is! It's not fair that you have a bad reputation. People need to know the truth about you! Justice must prevail! I will shout it from the rooftops. "Niles is A-OK in my book"! Ha ha! This is going to be great!
Niles: Can we go back to being enemies?
--Not only is the exchange a lot shorter in English, it's less intimate/emotionally charged. It dials up the humor by writing Arthur to be a bit of a dingbat and Niles being dragged along against his wishes.
Arthur/Harold in the Japanese script, is written to be very good at interpersonal communication and sympathy, hence why he fights for justice and moral causes (saving Azura from being punished, helping any and all citizens instead of just being completely dedicated to Elise like Effie is, taking on dangerous jobs despite his bad luck, etc.). He's an incredibly splendid guy who has a knack for reading people.
And the Japanese A rank proves that he was right in thinking Zero was keeping a part of himself hidden, because Harold noticed that he wasn't talking outlandishly anymore when revealing his past, therefore, he was being genuine and speaking from the heart. Further proving that, is that when Harold genuinely praises him, Zero shrinks into himself and goes on defense again, trying to push him away by threatening to "fuck him with an arrow." Harold clocks this IMMEDIATELY as him trying to hide his embarrassment over being praised, before calling him cute and letting him know that if Zero has anything to vent about, that he'll always be willing to listen, to which the latter again gets embarrassed by.
This massive layer of intimacy and vulnerability between them-especially from Arthur-being removed is devastating! Getting to see Niles be vulnerable and sincere is a very rare treat, and the fact that Arthur is able to pull that side out of him (when the only other people really able to do that are Leo and his spouse) showcases how close Arthur and Niles can be, even if the latter doesn't admit it. The JP version of this conversation is one of the major reasons why Arthur has potential to be read as queer himself, not just because he calls Niles cute, but also because he's able to do something for Niles that's reserved for his closer relationships.
Having this all be replaced/cut out makes me sad, especially since it dumbs down Arthur and dulls Niles' personality. Hell, this also kind of extends to the C rank, where in the Japanese version it's implied that they knew/heard of each other before their current jobs since they were both from the slums, but had never spoken until now due to contrasting personalities and ideals. The English version scrubs that implication away, only having Arthur say "Your reputation precedes you" and Niles say "I don't like smug goody-goodies", as if they only became aware of each other when they got employed and immediately got bad vibes from the other. No! Niles was a known outlaw and Arthur was a known town hero! Of course they heard of each other, and just didn't know how to speak with one another in the palace until the current day!
Ughhh, it's SUCH a good support, yet the English version's changes and alterations just do it no justice whatsoever.
Niles with Azura
-In B rank, Niles explains why he thinks him and Azura are similar, delving into his past and personality in the process. In the JP version he says:
"There are two types of people I like to direct my colorful words to. The first are people who don't seem to know anything about hardship. [...] I was abandoned by my parents when I was a child, and was living in the slums soon after. Maybe that's why, when I see people who've never experienced hardship, I want to see their faces twitch. [...] I followed a hopeless path until Lord Leo took me in. [...] Moving on, perhaps due to my upbringing, I also don't like people who invade other people's hearts with bad intentions. I use my words to put people at a distance from me. [...] However, you aren't anything like either group. You had a turbulent upbringing and you try to keep your distance from others. So I thought to myself that you and I were alike."
In the English version, he says:
"You and I have both experienced real suffering unlike most of the idiots we know. [...] As a child, I was abandoned by my parents and had to fend for myself in the slums. Before Lord Leo accepted me as his retainer, I was literally living in the gutter... [...] It's left me with a low tolerance for people who lack compassion. I cannot stand shallow people! I try to avoid them at all costs. [...] I can tell that you are different from the others, milady. In fact, I get the impression that your childhood was no picnic either. You keep your distance by being aloof, while I actively drive people away. The more people I offend, the fewer I have to put up with. See? We're quite the same."
--Again, the general gist is there in the English version, but it's missing good details while muddying up others. The JP version reads like Zero pushing people away as a defense mechanism, and his envy towards others living privileged lives warping into resentment and antagonism. The English version weirdly makes things more vague, having Niles say he hates "shallow people who lack compassion" which can apply to anyone! A layer to Niles' character is the resentment towards the privileged, hence why his backstory involves breaking into the royal castle and he's not afraid of being scathing towards Corrin, Camilla (royalty), Felicia (royal maid), and Setsuna (noblewoman). It's why his support with Azura is a bit of an oddball, that was intentional. Niles can deduce that Azura is carrying heavy stuff with her like he is, since you have to be a little fucked up to end up distant and detached like Azura is. Her being royalty doesn't matter, because the vibe he gets from her overrules that. But for that overrule to make sense, you have to keep Niles' antagonism towards the privileged, and Treehouse gets fairly iffy with that.
Also in the JP version Niles says he and Azura are like hedgehogs, and the English version changed it to porcupines. As a huge Sonic fan, I'm obligated to be upset by this.
Niles with Elise
--Okay, this one is kind of difficult to talk about, because given Elise's age (at the very least 15, I believe, but possibly older), Niles can come off as a creep.
In Japanese C rank, Elise says she's still too young/too immature to go to the strategy meetings, thinking she'd just be a nuisance to everybody. Niles disagrees and says she "has a great body" which yeah, isn't great sounding. I think the intent was she "has a mature body" which also isn't great sounding, but the point was that Elise is, going by age, is mature enough. Further on, he asks if it'd be better if she stopped thinking of herself as too young, and join in the meetings for the benefit of Nohr.
In the English version, the comments on Elise's body are scrubbed out, but it also ups the childish factor on Elise a LOT for some reason. Instead of seeing herself as a child and lamenting her not understanding the discussions at the war council, she complains that everyone else treats her like a kid instead, hence why she doesn't go to the meetings. That holds very different implications no matter the language, since recognizing your own immaturity is ironically a very mature thing to do, and Elise is characterized as having extremely keen sensibilities. Complaining that others keep treating you like a kid, on the other hand, is extremely immature (hence the constant trope usage by characters like Ricken, Hayato, Lysithea, etc.)
In the Japanese B rank, after being told she didn't need to go to the meeting because it still might be too hard to understand, Elise is very upset. She says:
"You know, Zero... I went to the meeting. And then they told me that I didn't need to go again. It was still too difficult for me to understand [...] Yes. even though everyone was at the meeting... in the end I was the only one left out... [...] No, it's okay. It wasn't unnecessary advice. The problem is me. I act like too much of a child... how do I become an adult..."
Once again, a lot of the emphasis is put on how Elise sees herself as childish, not necessarily others. Zero gives her advice again, saying that her heart might be the problem. He says:
"You say that you want to become an adult, but in your heart you just want to be a child, don't you? The heart shows what you truly are. Heading to meetings with a spoiled heart, of course you'd be seen as unnecessary. Unless you do something about your heart, you won't be needed no matter how old you get."
He then says it's wonderful to see her cry, which again, yes it's fucked up but Zero is fucked up.
In the English version, it removes the line about him liking to see her cry, but also changes the exchange again. Elise now says:
"I w-went to the war meeting like you said, but they told me I didn't need to be there! They said i-i-it was too complicated for me! J-j-jerks! [...] Yeah! Everyone else was there, and I'm th-the only one they said should leave! It's so dumb! Dumb dumb dumb! They're all just a bunch of dumbheads! Why won't they take me seriously?! I even showed up and everything! I'm and adult, right? They should treat me like ooooonnee! *sob* [...] No, you were right. I need to study more. I'm no better than a child. My siblings are so mature... Why can't I be like them?"
Again, I don't speak Japanese, so maybe Elise is crashing out just as hard in the JP script and I just don't know it, but holy fuck, they really ramped up her outburtst here! It's not too far from Peri level, which is unfitting for Elise. While childish in some aspects, she's keen and introspective in others, always desiring to improve. The English version did this part of her personality no favors.
And keep in mind, it was also Treehouse that was responsible for Leo's infamous line where he says "Elise, when do you intend to behave like the adult that you technically are?" That line and its implications were not the same in the JP version, where he instead complains that Elise still acts like such a brat. So, what's the deal here, Treehouse? Is Elise an adult or not?
Anyway, Niles' reply to Elise is kind of the same, but instead of saying "heart" he says "attitude" which gets the same meaning across, and because Elise references her siblings in the English version, he does as well.
-Now, for A rank, there's not as much changed here, but in the Japanese version, Zero is clearly disappointed that his advice inadvertently cost him a chance to see Elise cry/suffer again, given that Elise used the advice on changing her heart and it worked. The English version... only half scrubbed this away, for some reason? They changed a line to have Niles say "I'm proud of you, Elise. That's wonderful. Though... perhaps also something of a shame." It's awkward because Niles isn't written to be that disappointed anymore, you can't have both!
-S rank is a bit of a trip. So, in both versions, Elise says that she wants to marry someone like Niles in the future, because she wants a husband like him that'll tell her things directly and not shy away from harsh truths. But then the versions diverge.
In the Japanese version, it's Niles who brings out a ring and proposes, saying something along the lines of "I had a boyish/immature mindset, where I teased you so much and wanted to see you cry because I was in love with you" and "From now on, you'll face harsh realities. But you don't have to hold back tears. Please cry as much as you want around me. I'll help stop them for you. [...] I'll do my best to be even more wonderful for you, and help you grow into a fine adult."
In the English version, however, it's Elise who brings out a ring and proposes. In response, Niles says "Well I supposed I must accept. [...] I never expected it. But I have grown to love you. You have an innocence about you that I have rarely seen in my life. I lost hope, once, because I bore witness to the worst evils the world has to offer. But you have rekindled that hope in my heart. I could not live without you. [...] And I vow I will do everything in my power to help you in all your endeavors. Though I supposed we'll start with making you a responsible, regal princess, eh?"
-Again, I don't know what the intent is here by Treehouse. You make Elise more childish, outbursts and all, but then have her be the one to propose? And then have Niles comment on her innocence? What? Is she a child or not? Is it appropriate for her to marry or not? Now I could be misreading things, since the "innocence" bit could be translated from Niles saying he had an "innocent schoolboy love" for Elise, or it could've been Treehouse's mistake. Still, that doesn't change the fact that Treehouse had Elise be the one to propose, which is contradictory within this support chain, said support chain being contradictory to what was established earlier in the game. Make up your minds!
Niles with Leo
-A rank sets the scene a bit differently between versions. In the English version, Niles is contemplating the future. This leads him to say he’s confident about his future rather than worried, because he found a purpose in serving as Leo’s retainer. JP version, on the other hand, has Niles thinking about how he is in the present. This leads him to consider his past and come to terms with how lucky he believes himself to be at the moment, and wishing to convey his gratitude to Leo for his part in his life. The same case in B rank happens here as well, where the JP version has Niles express gratitude over finally having a place to stay (which I think is very intimate and vulnerable, because I read it as a "place of belonging"), while the English version has him say his life now has a purpose. That could carry the same weight, but on an interpersonal level, idk, it doesn't feel as deep.
Niles with Camilla
This support is pretty juicy, but key things from Japanese to English get lost. When Zero asks why Camilla relentlessly showers Kamui with love, this exchange happens in the Japanese version:
Camilla: My love for Kamui? I don't quite understand it either. I do think dearly of him, but I don't have a reason for it. Howver, Kamui did have a bad childhood... perhaps that's why I treat him kindly.
Zero: Would it be fair to say that Lady Camilla's love is... selfless (unconditional)?
Camilla: I wonder.
Zero: I see... Heh. Heheheheheheheh...
Camilla: ...What is it?
Zero: I do not agree with that.
Camilla: then, what do you really think?
Zero: Am I allowed to say it?
Camilla: Of course.
Zero: The reason is simple. Because you're a pitiful human being.
Camilla: ! What do you mean by pitiful?
Zero: I'll save it for next time, I'll tell you a story that'll blow your mind.
In the English version, Camilla instead says this first:
"What do you mean? I love Corrin! He's such a sweetie! Plus, he had a terrible childhood. I think he deserves a little kindness now!"
Because of this change to Camilla not really fully knowing the reason why she dotes on Corrin, Niles subsequently doesn't ask her if her love is selfless/unconditional. Instead this exchange happens:
Niles: As I suspected! Your so-called love is nothing more than pity. You're probably one of those people who brings home lost puppy dogs too.
Camilla: Of course I would! Who would leave a cute, little puppy out in the cold?
Niles: Heh heh...
Camilla: *gasp* You would, wouldn't you?! Niles, you're terrible!
Niles: There's a reason you fixate on helping poor pathetic creatures!
Camilla: Is that so? And what's that?
Niles: You live a pathetic existence. You're trying to make yourself feel better!
--In Japanese, the clear cause of her own obsessive devotion to Corrin is unknown even to her, and Corrin's bad childhood is just the best reason she can put forward. In English, she says that's the definitive reason, with no hesitation or deliberation. So not only is there this weird gag inserted in the English version where Niles would leave puppies to suffer, Camilla's own problems are dulled.
Now for B rank, the context here is that, before explaining why he called her pitiful, Niles asks Camilla a hypothetical question on why humans love animals. This is how it plays out in Japanese:
Zero: They (people) want to be loved. But that reality doesn't exist for them. That's why they turn to animals to fill the hole in their heartst. That's exactly what your relationship with Lord Kamui is like. You pitied your own existence and thought that you never received enough love. And so you sougt to devote your love to someone more pitiful than yourself... in other words, Lord Kamui. For your own, disgusting form of comfort.
Camilla: ...If that's the case, so what? What's the point of you saying this.
In English, this exchange is written like this instead:
Niles: It's because people want to be loved. They want companionship-a person to come home to, and if they can't get it... They'll settle for a furry creature who'll greet them and slobber on their shoes. This is the same relationship you have with that lost, little puppy-Lord Corrin. You're miserable, so you shower him with affection, and that puppy slobbers back!
Camilla: Are you calling Corrin a dog? That's disgusting!
--The difference in Camilla's response is important. In Japanese, she doesn't deny that this is the kind of relationship she's cultivated with Corrin. In English, she pivots to offense at Corrin being called a dog. Niles' words about her kind of love is disgusting are also dulled a bit, and the indirect antagonism towards Corrin is also ramped up.
The lack of denial on Camilla's part in JP is important to understand how fucked up she is as well. It connects back to C rank where she wonders if her love is actually selfless/unconditional, and the truth is, it's not. She goes of the deep end in Birthright becasue of her warped love towards Corrin, blending love and cruelty together, because that's how she was raised as well. She's mature enough to reflect on it a bit, but nowhere near close to getting it under control. Removing this tidbit removes the juicy implications that Camilla's character brings.
Niles/Zero then goes on to explain his background to Camilla, how he likes to give hell to people who he believes have never known hardship. This leads us into A rank. In Japanese, Camilla says this:
"You said I never knew hardship and must have been happy because I'm royalty. I summoned you here to tell you that you're wrong. [...] Did you know? Marx (Xander) is the only one among Nohrian royalty was mothered by the queen. Leon, Elise and I are children of concubines. All of us had different mothers. [...] Concubines are in fragile positions. In order to raise their status, even just a bit, they would quarrel and insult each other during their free time. And that's not all. Their spats affected their children as well. All sorts of conflicts arised using the children as an excuse. [...] Your claim that I'm pitiful is not entirely wrong. I exist only to bind my mother to Father. Mother may have loved me, but perhaps that itself was just love towards Father.
In English, however, she says this:
"I know what you thought! She's royalty! She must be happy! Her life is perfect! You're wrong! I wasn't born in the slums, but my childhood wasn't all roses either. [...] O. Didn't you know? Xander is the only one of my siblings born to the queen. The rest of us-Leo, Elise, and I-we're all children of King Garon's mistresses. Different mistresses, I might add. He loved to pit our mothers against each other. [...] Our mothers were the lowest of the low, trying to claw their way to a better status. Naturally, they used us as bait in all of their conflicts. [...] You said I was pathetic, and you were right! My mother loved me, but only as a pawn. Do I dote on Corrin? Yes, I do! I remember what it feels like to be alone!
---There are several things to note here.
1) The English version says Garon loved to pit the concubines against each other, while the Japanese version says the concubines did it on their volition. The English change doesn't make sense, of course, because the whole reason why Garon went off the deep end was because of the stress borne as result of the concubines feuding. He wasn't cruel when they were alive, he became disillusioned and went mad after the fact, including after Azura's mother came and went.
2) Camilla in the Japanese version presents a more detached scenario, including how she felt towards her mother. The experience no doubt fucked her up, but she truly is reflective on whether her mother loved her, or if that was just an extension of her love for Garon. This contrasts with Leo, who explicitly says he never loved his mom, and Elise who (in the Japanese version at least) says she loved her mom, but her mom didn't love her back. In the English version, Camilla is more sure that her mother didn't love her for real, and calls her and the other concubines the lowest of the low. It's quite different, and I don't know if I dislike the approach compared to the detached one in Japanese.
3) Camilla brings up Corrin in English, saying she dotes on him because she knows what it's like to not be loved. JP version, she doesn't bring him up, and instead further contemplates if her mother actually cared for her.
I know this is about Niles, but what the partner says in a conversation with him can change his response. Case in point, this is the exchange that follows Camilla's background in the Japanese version:
Zero: That's enough, Lady Camilla. I was mistaken. You are not pitiful, you are a woman who's stood strong and never resigned yourself... someone far too dazzling for me.
Camilla: Zero...
In English, this is what the exchange is instead:
Niles: I'm so sorry. I was wrong about you! You disguise your pain well. I didn't realize.
Camilla: I didn't tell you all this so you could apologize. I want you to think twice before you judge someon else unfairly!
---The English version made Niles more impersonal (and kind of a wimp) in his apology, and Camilla more reactive in response. In Japanese, the words he uses are more... genuine? I'd like to say? And Camilla is genuinely stunned that he'd retract his words like that. Again, Niles' can be very compassionate and sincere, he's just a hard nut to crack. And Camilla, well... her violent tendencies was meant to be more of a "tranquil fury" kind of anger, the kind that unnerves and terrifies you, rather than is abrupt and shocking, but the English version sort of altered that as well.
Oh, and in the JP version, as recompense Niles offers to apologize in the nude and be dragged around, but in the English version he asks her to beat him instead. Not to important, because Camilla refuses either way, but in English she does say "Seriously, Niles. I'll pass. If you want to be flogged, you'll have to do it yourself." Which is really fucking funny so kudos to Treehouse, you got a laught out of me.
--S Rank has less important changes, but in Japanese Camilla does get very forward and flirtatious with him, saying that "even though you're not a thief anymore, you've stolen my heart" and is more open to his sexual advances at the end of the conversation. In the English version, though, she gets a bit more scandalized, which is :/
Niles with Corrin
-In C rank, there's a bit of a change. In Japanese Zero says that trust is born from violent clashes but that maybe there was a difference in how him and Kamui were raised. Still, he says it's nice of Kamui to say he trusts him. Kamui's interest is piqued he wants to talk to Zero more, to which the latter says that he has weird hobbies but to do whatever he liked.
In English, Niles instead says "trust is borne ouf of a violent confrontation or traumatic experience. I supposed you must have had some kind of blessed childhood, free from worry." Corrin rebukes this and Niles apologizes. When Corrin tries to probe, Niles says "Oh ho! You offer nothing and expect juicy gossip in return. Sorry, child, but you'll have to do better than that."
--Not only is Niles more antagonistic towards Corrin in English, he also just assumes that Corrin's childhood was good, which he doesn't do in Japanese. He's actually quite objective and calm in Japanese. The change remains odd, because then the B rank flips Niles to be nicer all of a sudden.
Anyway, in B, there's details that are different. In Japanese, Niles says this, when asked to relay his background to Corrin.
Zero: I'm fine with it. It's not really a big deal, anyway. Ever since I've been a child, I've done anything I had to to get by. Stealing, begging, assaulting people, killing them... It would be pretty difficult to think of an evil deed I haven't done. [...] What? Surprised, ar you? I haven't even gotten to the best part! Anything I had that was of any value, I'd sell. Everything you could think of. The most intense one was that one time... who would've thought such a great man would-
But in English, he says this:
Niles: Very well. But you should know up front that it's not all lollipops and puppy dogs. Since I was a chold, I've had to do a lot of unsavory things just to survive. Steal, beg, kill-just another Tuesday for li'l Niles, sadly. [...] Surprised? I haven't even gotten to the good stuff.
--Basically, the Japanese version implies a lot more, including prostitution. The English version cuts it off. After that, it kind of continues the same way, though Niles in the JP version does more openly admit he was exaggerating a bit.
A rank doesn't have anything major regarding Niles, but the "low-friction tactical grappling and strategy" that he mentions in the English version? In Japanese is instead referred to as "sumo wrestling, famous sport in Hoshido." I'm a sucker for a developed world, so someone besides Rinkah talking about sumo was a neat surprise.
The S rank for Female Corrin was pretty faithfully adapted, but was also notoriously used for the Male Corrin as well. Here are the lines that were in the Japanese S support, exclusively for Male Corrin and Niles.
After asking Corrin to marry him, this exchange happens:
Kamui: B-but... I'm a man, you know.
Zero: I'm aware of that. We're both men, and our social positions differ greatly, but I'm saying this with both of those things in mind. I... love you, Lord Kamui. No matter what anyone says. I couldn't keep myself from conveying these feelings any longer.
Kamui: You're serious...
Zero: Yeah. It's the first time I've felt like this. This is different from my loyalyt to Lord Leo- I've been feeling something warm in my body all this time. It's strange... normally, I like watching others be troubled, but when you look sad, I feel a pain in my chest. I want to protect you with my own two hands, keep you precious to me, and spoil you rotten. And... if possible, I wish to make you happier than anybody else.
Kamui: ...Zero...
Zero: Lord Kamui... would you be willing to marry me?
Kamui: ...
Zero: ...I guess that's a no. I'm sure you'd preferred it to have com from a woman, but hearing this from a man must be...
Kamui: … even if you won’t tell me about your past…
Zero: Huh?
Kamui: If it’s about the future, then we should be able to talk about it, right? From bygone days to the future – why don’t we talk about it together? If yes, then… I accept your proposal.
Zero: Is it really all right? Are you certain? You… won’t regret this?
Kamui: I won’t regret it. If I told you I wasn’t surprised, I’d be lying, but… what you said earlier made me so happy. I want to accept your feelings. I want us to be happy together. … from now on and forever, I always want to be with you.
Zero: … Thank you. … I wasn’t wrong about you after all.
Kamui: Haha. It’s an honor to measure up to your expectations.
--You're free to draw your own conclusions on this. I feel that gay relationships are inherently different in our society compared to straight ones, so writing them should be different. Given that, I prefer the original JP lines over the English version making the S rank the same between genders. It feels more real, and the extra lovey-dovey stuff from Niles to M!Corrin exclusively is just, ughhh, chef's kiss.
Endings
The only major different one is the gay one with Niles and M!Corrin in Conquest. In Japanese it's this:
"Kamui, after helping the reconstruction of both Nohr and Hoshido countries, traveled the world. By his side was the constant presence of Zero. It is said that the two of them left stories in every land. In their later years, they opened a small orphanage for children who were not blessed and lived their lives quietly."
In English, it's this:
"After helping restore Hoshido and Nohr, Corrin and Niles traveled the world together. The two were celebrated for their humanitarian work, inspiring songs, folktales, and poems worldwide."
---The English endings in general are a lot shorter, since you're able to convey a lot more information with Japanese letters/characters in the same amount of space compared to the English alphabet. Still, if I had to pick, I wish they brought over the orphanage tidbit instead, it's so fucking sweet.
Private Quarters Lines (These are the big changes that I have issues with)
Japanese (Friendship)
"You're an unguarded person, huh... If I became "interested" and did you right here... What would you do?"
"You're still using your hands purely... Shall I teach that body of yours something good?"
"Not bad. Next time I'll be the one servicing you."
"To have been noticed by a royal like you... wasn't so bad I guess. As thanks, I'll teach you about a lot of various things... Painful things... And pleasurable things, okay?"
English (Friendship)
"You seem nervous. Was this meant to be a date?"
"It's so revealing to see your room like this. I feel like I know you better than ever."
"I know, I know, it's my turn to invite you over. There's just... things... I don't want you to see. Yet."
"To think... an urchin like me... best friends with a royal like you. Life is so strange sometimes..."
Japanese (Lovers)
"For all that I had to endure... you better prepare yourself tonight. Even if you cry or scream... I won't stop."
"Close your eyes. Don't worry... Right now, I won't go any farther than a touch."
"I love you. My heart, which had been broken a long time ago... You picked it up and fixed it."
"Even now, I see this dream... A painful and agonizing dream... From when I was a child. But... If I were to wake up and see you beside me... I'll be okay. Please stay by my side. And when I sleep... Please hold my hand and never let go."
English (Lovers)
"I've waited so long for this. I'm never going to let you go!"
"Close those beautiful eyes for a second. ...Well?"
"I never thought I'd feel this way about anyone. It's a weakness, I suppose..."
"You've taught me to embrace love... and showed me that it can just as exquisite as pain. Let's share plenty of both."
---Yes, Niles in Japanese is more sexually charged, whether you're friends or lovers. But he's also SO MUCH MORE VULNERABLE, what the hell! He talks about how the world has broken his heart and how he has nightmares, and wants Corrin to stay by his side at night, just holding his hand!!! He's being sensitive and sincere and so ooey-gooey, ughhhh! In comparison, I feel the English version turned him into a personified ;) face, which has its own charm, but thinking about what it replaced? Yeah, it's no contest for me, I think the Japanese lines are better. Similarly...
Confession
Japanese: "So warm... Is this love? I can feel you deep inside me. When did I... become like this... and fall in love with you."
English: "Do you have any idea what you're getting into? I sure hope not."
---The confession is also a lot sweeter and heartfelt in Japanese, while impersonal and trying to be funny in English. I dearly love Niles when he's open and sincere, and it's a shame that many just haven't seen it.
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That's all I had to comment on! Thank you for reading, this was really fucking long lmaoooo.