#tvl discourse

[lilith-john]

Why is it that all of a sudden half of this fandom has lost any sense of media literacy…of nuance…I’m sick of seeing takes of “Claudia would never say this,” yes she would. Does anybody remember “Never been about me. I was just a roof shingle that blew off your house!” ???

And to say that Claudia isn’t capable of being cruel or deceitful is to completely misunderstand her character…When you try to say Louis or Claudia aren’t capable of morally dubious acts you are in fact distancing them from what is innately human. You are dismissing a part of them when you put them up on this “can do no wrong” pedestal. Maybe examine why you can’t understand the motivations of a black character unless they fit into what your idea of “good” is.

And showing Lestat’s own trauma is not the same thing as justifying his crimes. Lestat didn’t learn how to be abusive out of a vacuum. Those skills come from somewhere.

And overall—This show is not going to fit into what you think is politically correct, it’s Anne Rice, it never will. Her whole writing style was dedicated to asking uncomfortable questions. If you don’t like that, then why are you watching?

[vatcam]

Let me get this straight

The character of Daniel Molloy literally made a girl put a paper bag over her head and had sex with her “even as she cried” (which could be interpreted as a sign that it was no longer consensual), but now that he’s made an autism joke is when he becomes a bad person?

He was never a good person and he was never a nice person. He’s a grumpy fucking asshole and that gets old quick for me. No, it’s definitely not good to make jokes like that because it perpetuates stereotypes and is hurtful to those with autism or those who love someone with autism. The line needs to be drawn when it comes to issues like this. The writers should have considered that.

But the expectation that every character in tv, movies, or books should be good and moral or they and those who wrote them should be cancelled is something I see so often now. These aren’t real people. They’re fictional characters who don’t realize their idiocy or moral failings half the time. Even worse, sometimes they do and they don’t care. You’re choosing to watch or read a story that was not written by you or for you.

Edited to add that even though these aren’t real people, they are based off of how real people are: nuanced, grey instead of black and white. Good and bad simultaneously. Complicated. Failing, impulsive, tortured, traumatized, and not coping in a healthy way (see: Louis paying Regina to pretend to be Claudia).

Lestat misgendering the fang gang member was to illustrate how out of touch, inconsiderate, and boomerish he could be. By your logic, I should be mad at you for even continuing to watch this in the first place. Lestat murdered Lily and threw her away like trash for completely selfish and manipulative reasons. And here you are tuning into TVL every Sunday.

You are watching a story about people who suck. Stop being so surprised when they suck.

You are also watching an adaptation that has never followed the book or timelines since episode 1. Why doesn’t TVL get a pass on that like the first two seasons did?

I have just been so baffled by the criticism this season has received when we were ~blessed~ by such incredible, emotional performances. I am in the mental health field, and am someone who is deeply interested in portrayals of trauma and resilience in media, and I think the ways that they have explored trauma, grief, longing, and other complicated emotions has just been phenomenal.

Anyway

[bluevamppainter]

Thoughts on TVL 3x06

At last, after two falls of the electrical grid of my country, I could finally watch episode 6, and since I've seen so much discourse about it I wanted to add my 2 cents.

First, the beginning of the chapter didn't feel like the other of the show (for me). It was more like…this cringey-awkardy feeling when you see two people who were together and messy and definitely wanna be together trying to act like friends? It didn't have the same loud energy of previous chapters, but I'm not complaining, it was just something I noted.

The dinner with Daniel. To be honest he's a character that I can't particularly read right now. Is he hostile to Loustat because of how they bully him sometimes? Is he siding with Armand purely as a way to be able to walk in the sun or is he actually against the Great Conversion? The rehearsal. Loved the song. This one and the one for Claudia are beautiful.

The discovery of Sofia/Gabriella and the tape. When I watched how it went (Daniel interviewing Armand as if he were a regular Joe) I loled so hard. Armand the king of pettiness and Daniel his petty nepo baby. Like, before watching the episode I thought Daniel told Louis on the dinner and the video of him and Armand was something Gabriella showed Lestat, not…what happened lol. But I enjoyed all the same. The argument after that was good, I really love Jacob and Sams performances.

Now, THE SCENE. Claudia. Like I said, I already read some of the opinions regarding the scene (some in favor, some against), but watching it was…wow. Like, at first I wasn't sure how I was gonna feel around it, admittedly because of my bias of Jacob, and hence, Louis, and I'm still not entirely on board with some things (like she saying she liked Lestat more because he was her blood and her maker when she didn't want that same blood turning Madeleine), but in the end I think she was just so, so angry and hurt, trapped in that place, in that hell for so long. And when Louis was all "what about the things you should be thanking me for?" That just, broke the vase. And just to clarify, she has all the right to be angry. The two men supposed to protect her not only chose each other over and over instead of her but ended up causing her death, and then they have the nerve to use her as ways to feel themselves better? And to make matters worse, she can't even be with her love, with Madeleine. It's so, so, sad, that after everything she suffered, she still is. Really, props to Delaney because that whole scene was simply amazing.

As for the beheading, I was already spoiled sadly, but even if I wasn't, in episode 1 we see Louis pretty much alive and with his head (although one leg short but, yk). So, you already know that that wasn't the end. To be honest, I'm more worried about Daniel, I don't want him gone nor Eric.

And lastly, I just wanted to add, that I've read some people saying that Lestat saying he has the blood of Akasha in him absolves him of all the violent things he did. And that's…not how it works. Like Louis said: "It aint the blood. It's what you do with the blood". And, as the same Lestat said: "I'm a monster". They all are. They are all capable of doing monstruous things. Anyways that was all, sorry for the long rant.

[lasgalendil]

the white fandom turning on Claudia the second she's not an uwu perfect victim is why we can't have nice things

the woman has layers and nuance and has spent 79 years in purgatory only to be dragged back to the land of the living. She reveals herself to be a grownass woman who is clever and calculating and capable of being cruel and who directs the majority of her hatred at Louis for being the one who betrayed her as he is a Black man who prioritized his proximity to whiteness and to his white lover over her from the moment he dragged her across the floor to beg Lestat to turn her.

Claudia uses language designed to hurt Louis who described himself as the man in the Big House in confessional in episode 1.1 knowing his family wealth and his personal wealth was built on the bodies of Black and brown women who were enslaved and/or exploited. Claudia insults the one feature of his Black Creole heritage that keeps him from ever passing: his textured hair. And rather than seeing this as an expression of a Black woman enraged at the exploitation of her life and memory by the one man who should have protected and prioritized her as his daughter, his sister, and as A SISTER in their shared Blackness white fans are leaping on the "but it upholds systems of white supremacy!" train without ever stopping to think that was the entire point: Louis the pimp has spent his life and Undeath upholding systems of white supremacy, colonialism, and capitalism and still exploits women's bodies in his vampire restaurants but no matter how rich or powerful he becomes he will never be white enough to be safe from the double-edged blade of patriarchy and white supremacy.

Sorry you can't understand and appreciate the portrayal of a complex and nuanced Black woman expressing her pain and rage in your hurry for performative allyship. This is the first time we as the audience saw Claudia as she is and not the victim Louis or Lestat remembered her as, and you thoroughly rejected her for not meeting your impossible expectations.

[imnotreallyherejustlurking]

https://www.tumblr.com/kookiedeadbutterflies/822613437408526336/a-french-bengali-muslim-vampire-intentionally?source=share

Uh I'm Jewish and that never once occurred to me. Daniel joking about Mengele and putting a swastika over a guy who dictatorially rules over a coven and kills people brutally or threatens them with horrific experiments, sometimes in post-WWII Paris, makes sense (and I love Armand as a character). The butcher shop just felt like an amusingly specific reason why they could be sure that not only that butcher shop but others around it would be empty that day. There's no desecrating of holy spaces going on. It's a butcher shop, not a synagogue. What Armand does there has nothing to do with him being Muslim (if he is, since that hasn't been mentioned since he was pretending to be human in season 1, as far as I can remember).

But I sure don't love "Is the Jewish writer secretly putting Zionist messages into her script", I can tell you that much.

I appreciate your take, but I was criticising the show as a whole with regards to how they chose to frame a character they racebent by hiring a dark skinned Muslim actor, then additionally included nazi imagery and had him do specifically loaded horrific things throughout the show, gleefully, too, aspects which were not present in the book. I was not singling Hannah out. This was a creative decision I feel a few if not a lot of people were involved in.

I also additionally learned since making the post that Rolin Jones was a writer on Weeds, a Zionist show created by Jenji Kohan, an open Zionist.

And, considering Hannah Moscovitch's stance on Palestine:

^There's that too. Writing decisions for a character don't just exist in a vacuum, in my opinion.

But with regards to the butcher's shop, I was wondering, would drawing blood from Louis and Regina in the butcher's shop, with knives from the butcher's shop, risking food contamination, render the place no longer kosher? Because that's where I was going with when I said "desecrating a Jewish place of business" (never said the butcher's shop was a holy place, that was kookiedeadbutterflies), but if I'm wrong, I'm open to hearing it.

[imnotreallyherejustlurking]

i should just gone ahead and blocked that anon because how the hell are you out there saying raglan jones can be muslim unlike armand, because raglan only serves bureaucracy. anon is going OFF until you guys become normal again.

[homunculus-booty-shorts]

yes the black man is an evil aggressive patriarchal PIMP who can never change or be seen as weak or hurt, and he's abusing the indian man who is my poor effeminate helpless little VICTIM who doesn't reallyyy have the agency and control that we Saw Him Exert throughout season 2. no i don't care that armand ABUSED him for years and LIED ABOUT MURDERING HIS DAUGHTER because it DOESN'T FIT THE RACIST DYNAMIC I HAVE ALREADY DECIDED THEY BELONG IN!!!

you can't claim to care about these characters if louis will never be more than a pimp to you and armand will never be more than a rape victim to you

man fuck everybody . white people shouldn't be allowed to watch this show