Hashirama attracted two of the strongest people of his era, he had game
Obito failed so hard he couldn't kiss a photo with two of his crushes and the only chance he got with one of them was after they both died
Might Guy can work gay miracles. He made Madara, a known Hashiramasexual, hard for a hot second and became Kakashi’s husband through a positive attitude and spandex
Madara had to lose his brother and will to live to move in proximity of his crush, and that’s just the start. He spent like 80 years or something in a cave with a lifeless wooden copy of Hashirama, was thirsting for him even after death, and when he got resurrected the only move he managed to pull on him was to steal his senjutsu
How can you fumble so badly with the guy who already was into you?!
Naruto ended up with a girl but not the girl he wanted and both his crushes ended up marrying each other which is not a win but I can’t really call it a complete fail either
I still think it's really impressive that, independent of each other, both Madara and Hashirama came to the radical (for their time) stance of opposing needless violence and the idea of children being used as weapons/targets in the wargaming of adults.
We get to see bits of how Hashirama starts forming these thoughts and how he builds on them, but we're sadly never shown the equivalent from Madara's perspective. All we do know is that 1.) Madara clearly shares the same beliefs due in large part to his own experience with violence/loss and 2.) that it is so revolutionary for him to think this way, Hashirama is shocked to discover there is another little boy out there who shares his beliefs.
In contrast, I think it's also interesting to consider the perspective of Tajima and Butsuma amid all this as their worldview(s) would have been the first both Madara and Hashirama were exposed to.
We're told that the life expectancy of this era was just about thirty years old for both shinobi and civilians. People were essentially speed-running through life and while Butsuma and Tajima have, what I would say, somewhat aged appearances, I don't think it would be wrong to assume that they're still fairly young themselves given the life expectancy line (though, I'll grant that this is up for interpretation... age/stress lines can sometimes be deceiving in this manga). But along that line of thinking, it kind of makes me wonder if there's some element of 'children raising children' where, because their own childhoods were likely cut short/traumatic due to how bloody/violent the world was/continued to be, Butsuma and Tajima were probably doomed from the start as parents and would have been horribly suited to raise the next generation healthily/effectively (honestly pretty standard in the Naruto-verse lol).
While I've always found Tajima's deference to Madara interesting because of how it stands in contrast to what we're shown regarding Butsama's demeanor with his children, I think it's important to remember that Madara still came to the same conclusions about the world that Hashirama did... meaning that, at some point, Madara, on his side of the fence, was grappling with similar issues within the shinobi system.
Take this with a grain of salt as we only see a split-second of Tajima through Hashirama's extremely brief interaction with him, but it's always made me think that, while Tajima might not have been as physical/firm with his sons, it's likely that he was similarly neglectful.
Both Tajima and Butsuma are clearly products of their generation/the times they live in and are very likely victims of the shinobi world themselves (again, this is just standard fare in the Naruto-verse). I don't think it's a stretch to read them as two people who may have defied the odds of actually reaching adulthood but ultimately remain trapped in the cycle of violence they've inherited since birth. And now, here they are... broken, battle-worn men who are no stranger to loss/tragedy and know nothing else beyond passing that cycle/ideology down to their children.
I'm not trying to justify how they're raising/interacting with their children, but I am trying to see the world through their eyes. Especially as Butsuma likens participating in the cycle/ensuring his children can survive it to his idea of 'love' as a parent (again, I don't think it's a stretch to assume this is a 'standard' line of thinking in this era and it might be one shared by Tajima as well).
Now, we don't know the exact context of why Tajima and Izuna are there at the river (unlike the context we have with Butsama and Tobirama), but it's clear from the way it's presented that even this confrontation was mirrored on both sides. Somehow Madara's rendezvous with Hashirama was discovered and the Uchiha devised an almost identical plan to try and target Senju, just like Senju family plotted against the Uchiha.
I guess I'm kind of rambling here now (when am I not), but I just want to understand more about Tajima and how he might have influenced Madara since I think knowing Hashirama's experience with Butsuma helps inform us of how he reached his radical beliefs.
What I can conclude from the crumbs we have is that 1.) his parenting/ideology potentially led to Madara's inverse radicalization (I'm giving some leeway here since we don't know the innerworkings of the Uchiha during this time and maybe some other event/relationship pushed Madara into his subversive beliefs, but I think given all the 'mirroring' going on between the two clans it's not a drastic stretch), 2.) he was completely willing to kill one of Butsuma's children/didn't seem to hesitate in employing this strategy (this is presented as a brutal tactic meant to sway the enemy and it's something Hashirama's narration implies was simply cold calculus and maybe even normalized), and 3.) he showed strong approval when Madara awakened his sharingan, seeing it as a boon to their clan/family rather than a potentially traumatic event that was clearly important enough to Madara that his correlating emotions triggered the activation.
Personally, I almost think it would be interesting to explore how Butsama and Tajima's parenting styles might have differed in some ways, but, in any case, still inevitably led to their sons coming to the same conclusions that the shinobi world was fucked and children were deserving of safety/protection.
So, while it's clear Butsuma was very harsh and physical with his children, maybe in contrast Tajima was more gentle in his mannerisms. Regardless, the end result would remain the same: both Madara and Hashirama develop feelings/beliefs that stand in opposition to that of their fathers.
Tajima could have been a kind(er) father, someone who was respectful of (most of) Madara's opinions/ideas and gave him praise, yet, at the end of the day, he still chose to arm his children (even knowing he might have to bury them one day) and expected his sons to fight with the intent to kill - a reality full of contradiction that Madara would have been forced to contend with. That Tajima had to bury three of his other children and was still prepared to arm Izuna/bring him into dangerous conflicts and was coming to rely on Madara as a warrior in his own right, would have (imo) stirred some complicated feelings.
Lol, idk we barely have any info on Hashirama/Madara's era and here I am trying to peak into an even less explored era with Tajima and Butsuma...
I just think it's fascinating that they raised the most radically minded children of this generation who literally went on to fundamentally transform the shinobi world.
How did they get this way? Did they ever question what they were doing to their sons? How did they, as parents, continue to justify burying the children they had nursed and raised? Was it all completely 'normal' to them, to the extent feelings surrounding the 'wrongness' of the situation never materialized?
I think framing it this way/from their perspective also further highlights/reinforces just how dangerous/challenging Madara and Hashirama's thought process was.
The risk of betrayal in toying with this idea of 'peace' would have been incredibly high during such an untrustworthy period of history...
And how do you even begin to talk about peace when the ground is still soaked in fresh blood? Where do you draw the line of who will be 'properly' avenged and who will continue having their killer roam free under this new banner of armistice? I know I'm always bringing stuff back to Sasuke, but I think his character really captures these questions well and, honestly, right or wrong you can absolutely understand how certain people (from their perspective) come to the conclusion that there is simply no way for them to ever excuse certain losses, especially when it relates to loved ones.
Even so, Madara and Hashirama were playing around with those ideas as children who were witnessing the worst of humanity and the consequences that accompanied it. I don't think either of their fathers would have ever seen a path to peace and an end to the violence the way they were.
Lol, anyways... just more food for thought (and I don't know about anyone else, but I really want to know more about Tajima and Butsuma/their history).
Also here's my sketch without all the gore. Lowkey, it kind of looks like the Uchiha family is just out for a nice little trip to the market haha.
Butsuma is dead, leaving Hashirama as the clan head and Tajima has stepped down after a serious injury he sustained the that last battle with Butsuma.
Now that Hashirama and Madara are clan heads they decide to pursue peace.
When peace is agreed upon the Uchiha demand a marriage to prove the Senju 's commitment.
As an omega of the main line Tobirama is the obvious candidate.
The Uchiha decide that is acceptable and a marriage happens between Tobirama and Madara (an alpha).
Things are going well they have been married for 6 months and Tobirama is already expecting.
It's Izuna's 19th birthday and there is a big party to celebrate with extended family, friends, and the elders.
Tobirama ends up admits his is only 9 days later.
Madara asks him if he is turning 19 or 20? He wasn't sure how old Tobirama actually was.
Tobirama gives him a weird look and says no, I'm turning 17.
Absolute silence descends. No one is speaking and everyone is staring at Tobirama in horror.
But none more so than Madara who looks like he might throw up.
Izuna says he must surely be joking. They joined the battlefield at the same time! They have to be closer in age.
Tobirama's just tilts his head and says his father had him joining the battlefield when he was 7. He was actually more surprised to hear Izuna was that much older than him. He too assumed they were the same ago.
Tajima, his face red with rage, asks how could his brother sell him off in a marriage when he is still a minor. That's beyond fucked up.
Tobirama defends his brother saying that Hashirama was the only thing that had stopped him from being married off when he was 15, he was grateful for the extra year of being a shinobi.
Everyone looks even more shocked and outraged. 15?!? That's beyond messed up.
Tobirama says it's a common practice. His mother had been married to his father on her 15th birthday.
Tajima swears and asks how old his father was, to which Tobirama responds with he was 21. He, like all the clan alphas had to prove they could survive long enough to be gifted an omega wife.
Tajima swears and says if he had known he would have tried harder to kill his father.
Tobirama is completely confused as to why everyone is looking so shocked and angry. How old are the Uchiha when they marry?
One of the elders inform him that they do not let anyone, alpha, beta or omega Mary before they are 18.
Tobirama is confused. How do they keep their numbers up waiting so long for children?
Then he is even more shocked to hear some couples even wait a couple of years before having children. Tobirama tells them that in his clan omegas are expected to have a minimum of 3 children in the first 5 years.
Izuna chokes and asks what if one of the omegas doesn't want to have 3 kids or doesn't feel ready for them when they marry.
Tobirama simply says it's not for them to decide. That decision rests with their alpha.
He hears someone in the back actually puke.
Madara, pale as a ghost, asks him if he had actually wanted to have a baby right away or if he would have wanted to wait?
And his response breaks the Uchiha's hearts.
Did I have a choice? Tobirama asks.
Making it clear to all of them that no, he hadn't wanted a baby. Or at least not yet
Madara looks close to tears.
Tajima is livid.
Izuna looks horrified.
Tajima declares that they will never have a joint village. He will not risk his clan being subjected to such barbaric practices.
Tobirama is now horrified. He never should have mentioned his birthday. He was shocked the Uchiha clan was so different. Both he and Hashirama had assumed they were the same.
Tobirama asks why? He tells Tajima that if it's such a big deal his brother will change tradition in the interest of peace and a joint village. The safety of children in all the clans of fire was his priority.
Tajima, the elders and Madara agree they will discuss it at another time and that they will request more information from Hashirama as well.
The party is pretty much ruined at this point, thankfully Tobirama's comment came towards the end of it.
The head family all leave for their joint home silently. Madara is having trouble even looking at Tobirama.
He asks Madara if he is angry with him.
Madara explains that no, he is angry on his behalf. And that from now on he will do the right thing and remain away until Tobirama is 18 and has had time to decide what he wants.
Tobirama is horrified, he has come to really like his husband, and he doesn't want to go to an empty nest alone. Why was Madara abandoning him? He was sorry he said anything.
Madara tries to explain it's not right, but all Tobirama is hearing is rejection.
Tajima intervenes and tells Madara they are already mates. He needs to continue to be a good and attentive mate. Just because they had different cultural beliefs and that it felt wrong didn't mean he could pick his beliefs over Tobirama and their baby's health and happiness.
Madara is conflicted, but he sees the hurt written across his mate's face and apologizes for saying he would leave.
Madara spends the next months conflicted by what he knows is wrong and his mates health and mental well-being. In the end he decides he was being selfish and his mate and their baby have to be his priority.
They have a happy healthy baby, but Madara puts his foot down on having more. They will not until Tobirama is a minimum of 18 and actually wants to. If he wants to. Madara is perfectly content to only have their little girl. She will grow into a wonderful clan head.
Hashirama doesn't fight Tajima on his demands. After his engagement with Mito, who was 20 and allowed to choose when she married and have children, he started to think that it was a much better practice. And less risky for the mothers health.
Tobirama ends up being the last omega ever used as an exchange in a marriage and the last one under 18.
Despite what Madara worried about, Tobirama actually did want a big family. He wanted at least 4 children, but if Madara allows it, he would like to still be a shinobi. Madara has no issues with that. He won't go on many missions as the clan head and he can absolutely be a stay at home dad.
I've always hc'ed that the Uchiha (under Tajima, for this instance) are a more family-focused clan, ie they help and protect and uplift each other and in turn, this strengthens their clan
While the Senju (under Butsuma) were very "clan first", not really caring about individual people's wants or needs, the clan must thrive no matter the cost type of deal
Which leads me to the following hc;
If this was how Butsuma treated his own kids for daring to voice their own opinions...
Then who knows how he treated anyone else who disagreed with him?
How much worse would it be if a random clan member openly opposed him? Exile? Suicide missions? Assassination?
While Madara got to know Hashirama and knew he's not the same as his father, Izuna never did. He's never talked to Hashirama as far as we've seen; barely exchanged a few words with Tobirama. So really, who can blame him for thinking they'll all end up being the same as Butsuma?
What if that's why he didn't want peace until the very end? Because in his eyes, their familial values were so wildly different that they could never reconcile? Because he didn't want Uchiha kids growing up being beaten by their fathers for developing their own personalities?
21 incredible artists collaborating to redraw chapters 621, 622, and 623 of Naruto! You can find the final product in PDF form on [GOOGLE DOCS], or under the cut + continued in reblogs
Another Tobirama misunderstands/misinterprets Uchiha behavior and it leads to marriage: murdering mean family members as courtship.
(implied SA/rape)
I shall explain:
Little Tobirama is born with white hair and red eyes. Let's say his mom isn't Hatake, or if she is, she is a third/fourth generation. Her greatgrandmother married into the Senju and it has been mostly Senju blood since. Because of this, no one is expecting Tobirama's coloring and immediately he is viewed as an omen.
Tobirama grows up around his clan and a portion of that clan make multiple attempts on his life. Just constantly. Butsuma never puts a stop to it because he figures it will either weed out the week or make him a stronger shinobi. His brother tries to put a stop to it when they are younger but Tobirama stops telling him about the attempts to keep him from getting so depressed. His mother also does not do much, because, she simply does not have sway with the Senju despite being the Lady of the clan. She does comfort him and let him know that someone who truly loves him will always try and keep him safe from those who seek to harm him.
And so it goes.
That is, until, Tajima Uchiha kills his uncle twice removed in the middle of battle. An odd thing, since he typically focused on Butsuma during battle. Yet Tobirama watches as the man leaps across the battlefield and lops his uncle's head off, grabbing the still twitching thing by the hair and lifting it up with a victorious roar.
The same uncle that tried to suffocate him in his sleep just last night until Tobirama managed to poke his scrotum with a hidden senbon.
A strange fluttering happens in his chest and he ignores it in favor of blocking Izuna's blow.
Still, at night he keeps thinking about it. About how there is now one less person in the Senju trying to hurt him and all because of an enemy. And sure, it's happened before. But not instantly! Never purposefully! Still, it's not like Uchiha-sama knew of his uncles transgressions...so Tobirama files it as a nice surprise and reprieve. Nothing more.
Until it happens again.
This time Hikaku, who's only like three years old than him, manages to kill one of his father's most vicious soldiers. A brutal display of speed and strength enough to leave the body in a horrendous, cut up state. Which shouldn't seem odd in the middle of a battlefield except that Tobirama knows Hikaku. The Uchiha always battles Touka or some of his other cousins. But never an older shinobi...that was usually reserved for older Uchihas - those with long-standing hatred between them.
Not to mention the man he kills is the same name who used to train him. And by train, Tobirama means he would beat him until he couldn't move. Just the other day he had convinced his father Tobirama needed extra lessons and then proceeded to terrorize him on the train grounds right outside his home. His father didn't even blink when Tobirama slipped into the house limping, bleeding, and clutching his broken wrist to his chest. Just told him to see the medic for the wrist and nothing else.
And now he was dead because Hikaku decided to kill him?
Tobirama does not know what to feel. His father rages at the loss, but all Tobirama can think of is: Finally, I can breath a little easier today.
It keeps happening too. A group of Senju leave for a mission, some of which keep trying to poison Tobirama or occasionally injure him during training, and only two make it back. The two that do are people who are civil with Tobirama, have never gone out of their way to harm him. They tell his father Uchiha attacked out of nowhere and Tobirama can't help but think: Surely this is no longer a coincidence.
Why let the other two survive but kill the ones who made it their daily mission to harm Tobirama any chance they got? What were the Uchiha trying to prove?
It happens again and again. A twice removed aunt who got inventive with poisons dies on a courier mission at the hands of Uchiha scouts. A fellow shinobi around his again who tried attaching explosive to his mission pack gets his head lopped of at the next battle by Madara's gunbai. A older shinobi who wanted to force him into his place before Tobirama managed to knock him out, fleeing with his clothes in tatters, gets burnt to death by one of Tajima's larger fireballs.
His last straw is when another cousin (distantly so) meets his death by Izuna's hand. This cousin, a constant source of trepidation and fear, manages to do what the other shinobi didn't. He leaves Tobirama curled up in a ball, semi-paralyzed by whatever drug he put in him, and takes a lock of his hair as a trophy. Wears it wrapped in string like a necklace, a reminder for Tobirama that he can be defeated. At the battle makes the mistake of glancing toward the cousin, a brief flicker over to the necklace with his hair, and then back at Izuna.
Except Izuna had followed his gaze to the necklace and suddenly he's throwing Hikaku in Tobirama's direction as a distraction and sprinting towards the other Senju. Tobirama blocks a blow from Hikaku and has enough time to look to his left and catch the moment Izuna runs his distant cousin threw, before getting distracted by Hikaku's fireball. When he gets another chance to catch his breath and look, Izuna is pocketing the necklace. Then he takes Hikaku's place like it never happened.
After all Tobirama is convinced this is an elaborate plot by the Uchiha to court him. How could it not be? Why go through the trouble of eliminating Tobirama's enemies one by one like this? Over the span of years? It cannot be coincidental.
So, a sixteen year old Tobirama confronts the Uchiha. A rather stupid move, he will admit, but they have been collectively flirting with him since he got onto the field so he's probably safe. He intercepts them on the way to an alliance meeting with the Aburame and Inuzuka, just stops in front of their party and glares.
Tajima raises his hand to halt the others. "To what do I owe this pleasure of your presence, Senju-sama?"
"I demand answers."
"You have not made any questions yet." The man smirks.
Tobirama clenches his fists. "Why is your clan courting me?"
The easy confidence immediately slips of Tajima's face as several of his members, including his son, sputter and look at the Senju in confusion. "I beg your pardon?"
"Don't act obtuse! For years your clan has been eliminating Senjus. Specifically Senjus who have had a history of harming me or trying to kill me. And only them. And it's not just one of you, all of you, have had a hand in this. The number have attempts on my life at the Senju has decreased exponentially since this. I've never known a clan to enter a courtship en masse before..."
It is good to note that although Tobirama is rather intelligent, he is also sixteen. The Uchiha may have been eliminating Senjus with a prior history of harming him, but they have also killed other Senjus who are normal or even at times kind. A sort of confirmation bias, however, has taken hold since he has turned a spotlight only on those who match what he wants to/suspects. Also important to note, when other Senju return from a run in with the Uchiha, it has less to do with the fact that the Uchiha "know" they've never harmed Tobirama and more to do with the fact that the Senju who are civil toward him are more likely to take his advice and thus survive more Uchiha encounters. The number of attempts on his life have decreased, not because the Senju fear the Uchiha, but because the amount of people trying to harm Tobirama have indeed died off. Not just by Uchiha hands but by old age, sickness, and other non-Uchiha related mission deaths.
Back to the story.
Tajima stares for a few moments, taking in all the information. He clears his throat. "You mean to tell me that you believe my clan has been courting you?"
"Is that not what I finished saying?"
"Right." A pause. "And what is your evidence?"
And so Tobirama launches on his explanation: All the deaths and how they corresponded to incidents that happened a day to a few days before their deaths at the hands of the Uchiha, how his mother mentioned how some court through getting rid of enemies of their intended (not what she meant but he was a child and that's all he retained) and how Izuna kept the trophy, made of the lock of his hair.
Tajima takes all this in and considers. He can't let the little Senju go. He has a perfect opportunity to kill him and weaken the Senju more. Then again, there are more way than just killing a heir to weaken a clan. A clan, that by the little Senju's confession, has never seen his merit. Plus, there's no way this won't piss Butsuma off. Oh, he can't wait to see his ugly mug next battle.
So, Tajima smiles. "Well, you got us. Guilty as charge. Now, the real question is," his smile grows, "do you accept?"
Tobirama makes a face. "That depends. Who exactly is courting me? It can't be all of you, right?"
Hm, who should he throw at the little Senju? Madara would be a good sport even if he would be confused. Hikaku and Yusuke are family too, but Yusuke has never truly stepped onto the battlefield and Hikaku might actually cry. His mind wanders to his seventeen year old, stuck at home, no doubt in his room with his "hidden" box. A box that everyone knew contained a half-broken Senju happuri, several sweaty torn pieces of fabric from the Little Senju, and now a necklace of white hair.
"Izuna, of course." He says, completely throwing his son under the bus. Madara sputters in surprise, but luckily one of his men shuts him up. "He's a shy sort when it comes, ah, romance. So we decided to help with the, um, courtship."
Tobirama nods. "That's understandable."
Madara takes to staring at his new brother-in-law, perplexed. Tajima clears his throat. "And you answer, Tobirama-sama?"
Truly a sixteen year old, the Senju looks small and nervous. How cute. Still, this has delayed his meeting with his allies and he'd rather not see if any of the other Senju followed the little heir. "Think about it, Tobirama-sama. My clan would never harm you. After all, we've spent so much time trying to keep you safe! You can come with us. Not have to constantly look over your shoulder wondering if your food had been tampered, or if someone is going to attack you in the middle of the night. No one will try and put you in your place. Your place will be by Izuna, equals like all Uchiha spouses."
"But," he says, voice shaking. "What about anija?"
Ah, siblings. "Well, he can't come with us. But, I'm sure he would be glad to know his little brother was safe and he didn't need to constantly check up on you. Don't you want to give your brother peace of mind? A peace that comes from knowing one's little brother is safe and sound?"
Maybe he's laying it on a bit thick, but it works! For all his intelligence and ingenuity, the boy is a bit...gullible. The little Senju nods and Tajima opens his arms. "Welcome to the family, Tobirama-sama."
(When Tobirama does end up at the Uchiha compund, after the alliance meeting he ends up joining, with Tajima enthusiastically introducing him as his new son-in-law, Izuna stares at him for two very long minutes in silence before closing the door and screaming. Tobirama looks at Tajima in confusion and is reassured that he's just excited. He sends Tobirama off with a maid to get settled and sits Izuna down to explain that he's engaged to the Senju and all the stuff Tobirama mentioned. Izuna does not care for the weird planning/manipulation tactics, because he'd honed in on the fact that Tobirama is going to be his wife. It feels like all his birthday wishes come true.
Turns out, Izuna is not shy in the romance department. He goes from omg Tobirama is in my house wtf wtf wtf to ~hello gorgeous~ very quickly. Takes him shopping - uses his father's wallet of course - and spends all his time with him, buys him all sorts of books and waxes bad poetry about his looks and strength. Turns out, Izuna is just very much possessive of Tobirama and had no idea prior romantic inclinations. He just didn't like the fact this rando Senju had Tobirama's hair. As for his collection, if anyone asks, he will say he was simply studying the enemy. Still, if anyone was going to get a trophy like the lock of hair, it was going to be him. The downward slide in romance was quite easy, though, especially once he got Tobirama to give him the names of everyone who ever wronged him.
While Tajima does not have Tobirama battle his maiden clan, Izuna still shows up to battle with a whole list of people to wack. Just a demented, blood soaked Santa Claus, checking his list and marking off each Senju he eliminates in the name of courtship.)
Tajima's right. Butsuma does lose his absolute shit when he finds out his son ran off to the Uchiha to get married. It's so worth it.
