Excerpt from Yesshift Ep. 44 - Interview with Billy Sherwood
This is a long read, but a very worthy one in my opinion
[50:21]
Billy: …Somewhere around 2015, [Yes was] getting ready to go out and tour with Toto. I-I forget what the dates were but, umm…Chris called me and says “So we’re supposed to go out and do a tour with Toto, but I’m kinda sick.” And I said “What do you mean ‘kinda sick’? Like, what kind of sick?” And he said “Well, I’ve just got this thing that I gotta have checked out, and it’s just gonna take me out of the loop for a while,” He was being kinda coy.
And I said “Well, you need to, y’know, do what you gotta do to keep your health in order, obviously, so I guess you’ll have to postpone the tour ‘cause you can’t tour Yes without you, you know what I mean? Tell the guys in the band you’re gonna need some time and get it done.” And he was like “Yeah, yeah, yeah…alright well I’ll talk to you tomorrow,” Y’know, like he always does.
Ten minutes later I get a phone call from his wife, Scotty, and she says, “He’s not being honest with you in terms of what’s going on and I need to tell you. He just didn’t want to tell you. You need to know he’s got this real serious case of leukaemia, and it’s comin’ on strong. He’s in trouble,” Which…not just set me back; it was like…probably the most mind-blowing phone call I’ve had since, like, “Your dad just died.” Which was traumatising…
Dan: Yeah.
Billy: …back when I was a kid. Chris was that figure for me of like…y’know not like a father but, like, an older brother to me.
Dan: Right.
Billy: And…so I’m kind of blown away and so…next day Chris calls and goes “So she told you what’s going on,” and I said “Yeah, man. But, look…I know people personally who’ve had this, y’know, and…have beaten it. It’s not easy but they beat it. So…you’ll be fine, you know what I mean? You get in the hospital and you get the treatments you need and you’ll be fine,” And he was like “Yeah yeah yeah, I’m just kind of bummed out that Yes can’t do this tour because there’s so much responsibility on the line, in terms of-”
This was where his head was at, as he’s just being diagnosed with this…thing. He’s thinking the crew and their families who are not gonna have an income, the guys in Toto—y’know he’s kind of thinking of everybody else. I brought him back to the centre and said “Look. You need to get in there and get healed, so you need to tell the band they’re gonna have to wait.” And he goes “Yeah…I’ll do that, I’ll do that. I’ll talk to you tomorrow.”
So he calls me the next day and he says, again, “I just, y’know I’m so bummed that this thing has to stop because I just-“ And I said “Chris, did you call them?” And he goes “Well, not yet…” And I’m like, “Do me a favour. When you hang up with me, call them and tell them.” He goes “Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah…”
So, calls me the next day and goes, same thing: “I’m just so bummed that, you know…” I said “Chris, did you call them?!” And he goes [imitating Chris’ voice] “You’re not getting it, are you?” [laughs] And I said “Getting what?!” And he goes “I want you to step in for me and do this, and I want it to happen.” And I said “No, I did not ‘get that’.”
Because, to be honest with you, as many ways as I’ve ended up in Yes—which are unique, I mean I’m playing shaker in the Talk tour at some points, y’know—I never expected to replace Chris Squire, was never, ever…Chris was gonna be the last man standing, like Keith Richards, you know what I mean?
Dan: Yeah.
Billy: It never occurred to me!
Dan: So…how’d you digest that?
Billy: Well that kind of blew my mind for a minute and it was pretty emotional and, y’know, I was-I kind of lost it a little bit y’know? I’m hearing my hero asking me to do this which is…an amazing honour, but by the same token, why is he asking me? Because he’s in some deep, deep trouble here, y’know? It was just…it was reality on a level that I wasn’t used to and it was hard.
Dan: Was it…was it unexpected? I mean, obviously, for probably obvious reasons it was welcome, but at the same time, was it as much of a burden to fill that role and look up to expectations and just all the things I don’t even need to say, you know what I mean?
Billy: Intimidating as hell, you know what I mean? On face. But…there was no way I was gonna deny him this wish.
Dan: Yeah.
Billy: So I said “Yeah, I will do this, but, there’s…but I need you to go out and make a statement that we are going to do this, and I need you to tell people you’re going to come back. Because you are going to come back, okay? So I’m standing in for you but I’m not replacing you.” And he said “Yeah, I will do that, I will do that.” So he put out a press statement that went out to the public and it said something to that effect.
So now I’m rehearsing and I’m at home and he’s calling me every day, “How’s it going?” I’m like “It’s weird, but it’s good, how are you?” [laughs] You know what I mean? Like “Are you okay?”
“Yeah yeah, I’m dealing with the treatment” and this thing and the other and he’s like “Do you need anything?” And I said “Not really…y’know there’s something that’s kind of on my mind I wanted to run by you,” I said, “Chris, I’ve never played a Rickenbacker. It’s just never been my thing ergonomically.” He goes, [imitating Chris’ voice] “Don’t even consider it, that would be ridiculous if you did that!” Like “Don’t even worry about it, you have your own thing. That’s why I want you to do this, you have your own thing. So, play the instruments you want to,” And I was like “Great”, because I knew that was gonna be coming at me right out of the gate: “Why isn’t he playing a Rick?”
Dan: [laughs] Right.
Billy: “So if I have your [Chris’] personal endorsement on me being without it and it’s okay, then I feel better about things already.”
So I start rehearsing, and as I’m at home—and this is a real compressed period of time, it isn’t a lot of time—he keeps calling, and then…conversations are turning to, like, “I’m not gonna make it.”
Dan: Ugh…
Billy: And I said, “Y’know, Chris, I don’t…really wanna hear this. Don’t give up this fight. I’ve known people who’ve survived this, you are going to make it.” He says “No, no, I don’t think I’m gonna make it,” And I was like, “This is hard to hear and I don’t wanna hear it, just keep yourself positive,” and we talk about anything else, and so the next day he says “I’m telling you I’m not gonna make it, and I need you to accept that, and I need you to hear something.” And I’m like “What’s that?” And he’s like,
“I want Yes to continue.
I want you to go for it.”
And there were other things said that were kinda personal, you get the jist of what I’m saying.
Dan: Yeah.
Billy: Which was mind-blowing again, because in this moment of extreme grief—and I’m sure, terror in his heart because, I mean, he’s facing what he’s facing—he’s still thinking about Yes and, y’know this idea of Yes and he was all about that and wanted it to continue. How many icons pass the keys over to someone else and say “keep this car going,” you know that I mean?
It was just an intense period, and I was trying to process as it best I could and sort of maintain…he’s like “Promise me you’re gonna keep doing this” and I said, “Yes, I promise you, but you are coming back…like I promise you if it makes you feel better but you’re coming back,” you know what I mean?
Then, I didn’t really get any more phone calls for about three days or so…four days. And I knew something had taken a turn. And…on this cloudy Sunday morning I get up and go take a walk out in the back of my place where I lived at the time; I had this wide open desert space behind me and we’d go out there and take a walk. It’s like six in the morning, I’m watching the sun come up. Come back, grab my bass to start playing some of the Yes stuff we’re about to go out and do REALLY quickly after, y’know, a week or two or whatever it was, and I open my email to check things and I just see a message from the management that says “Chris”. And I knew what it was. And I sat there and, y’know…
[breaks down]
Sorry.
I couldn’t open it.
So after a time I opened it, and, y’know, life is the way it is and we lose people. So, from that moment forward, I just took it as a personal…[pause] like, mission to keep this thing going. And…it bothers me when I hear people tell me to stop. It makes me more defiant and dig my heels in and want to keep it going. And I think it’s known out there, in the community, that that’s how I am and that’s how I react. Y’know, I don’t interact with the people in Facebook when they start getting into tangles about this, that and the other, but when I see it and it’s coming directly at me or I see someone saying “They should’ve stopped when Chris Squire died,” it pisses me off because of what I just told you. It was in Chris’ heart. And that’s why I understand that and kind of give them a little room, but if they carry on I have to—sometimes I just go in and explain to them what the reality of the situation is. So here we are.
Dan: I’m hoping that there’s people like that out there that will see this and can learn a little bit more and be a little more sensitive and understanding, y’know? Whether they like it or not, they can have a different perspective of it. And to me I think that’s important. Y’know there’s people out there that say “Yes isn’t Yes without Patrick Moraz” there’s everybody. There’s every fucking story, every perspective we could possibly imagine, and I’m hoping that your story of what really happened and how it happened will kind of enlighten some people and also get them to lighten up.
Billy: And my theory too is that those who believe in Yes want it to go forward. And those are the people I’m doing it for and those are the people Chris was talking about doing it for.
Dan: And you’re doing a great job, by the way. You have in all these different roles, and I'm not kissing ass! How many times did I tell you since 1998 when we first met how much I just LOVED Fortune Seller, and the production on that whole album—you know I've been on your ass about that stuff for, how long has it been, 30 years or whatever? What year is this? I don't even know anymore...
Billy: Well, I mean I'm doing the best I can. I-I feel better about the work that I'm doing now. I was...when I did that first tour after Chris passed and we were playing live it was very difficult, y'know? Going out there and playing and looking out at an audience that I knew was looking at an absence and a change, and it was like…y’know I said to the band “If this doesn’t work this is all gonna be my fault,” [laughs] “so I’m gonna do the best I can here and try to make this work.” And…and I think the fans, y’know, were such an important component of me wanting to carry on, and also giving me that strength to find that defiance and keep the band going, y’know? Because of their warmth and the way they embraced me, but I also think that comes from the fact that I wasn’t a stranger to a lot of these people, and they also knew my relationship with Chris and Yes and Conspiracy, Arc of Life, so it kind of made sense to a lot of people. But the fans definitely made it easier.
And uh…that first tour was really rough, things got a little bit easier after that, but now there’s a lot of time that’s passed and I’ve gotten more comfortable in the role…I’ve played actually as the bass player of Yes on a studio album and I’m working on another one…so my imprint is kind is embedded into the legacy in that way. Y’know…we go forward and I have to go forward being me but honouring Chris as best I can, which is what I try to do every time I play one of his things, y’know? And I will play various things of his that have me laughing on stage ‘cause I remember how he would laugh when he would play it, and then there’s other moment that I’ll play a particular passage…and out of the blue it just strikes me and I just have to put my head down ‘cause I’m just…totally sad about the fact that he’s not here because this is such a beautiful thing he wrote here and he should be playing it, y’know? So, life is not fair in that way; I mean I lost my brother in November of ‘19 and…y’know, he died way too young, and so did Chris, and…these things are just part of life and they give you the wisdom and hopefully the strength to move forward, y’know?
Dan: Thanks for sharing all that.
Billy: It’s almost eight years later now that I’ve been doing this which is shocking, but…
Dan: Most fans don’t even last eight years! [laughs]
Billy: I know! Yeah, unfortunately the last three have been completely stolen by this whole Covid thing but, y’know, the time card is still being punched! [laughs]