I was going to do this with "in-line" replies, but it just got unwieldy and doing the mentions in a multi-reply reply is a PITA. So we do it this way. A really long (sorry!) post of replies for @taylors-simblr, @niamh-sims, @hugelunatic, @mustluvcatz-reloaded, @simaddicted-sue, @dunne-ias, @pensblr, @mdpthatsme, and @yuichen about kids and stuff...
taylors-simblr replied to your post “OMG, I'M GLAD THAT'S OVER!”
I am very happy that Christmas is over, we went to my mums. I had decided it would be lovely, and it was to an extent, but we were there for 5 days and there were too many people and kids and by day 3, I was peopled out and just wanted to get home. Daughter had her 3rd birthday on Friday too and was a horrible mess of over excitement ��, but that’s all over and things are getting back to normal. Except for the piles of toys people bought us, that I have no where to put...
I always feel bad for kids with Xmas-time birthdays. Their special day gets lost in the madness. That’s part of the reason why I always made more fuss over birthdays than Xmas, since my son’s birthday is December 17. Mini-Taylor is young enough not to be resentful, but I hope she'll be OK as she gets older. :)
But yeah, for me, the main problem is that everyone was at my house and stayed here because lodging in this area is scarce and the affordable options have to be booked months or sometimes even years in advance. My son is in the Army and he’s only just home after a long deployment, and the timing of his going home was always in question. When they knew (more or less) for sure when they’d be coming, all of the lodging in the area had long been booked. (This is why we have frequent (adult) houseguests, which I'm perfectly fine with.) The original plan was for my son and his family to stay with his wife's family, which is literally next door because my son married the literal girl next door. That would have been better. Theirs is an enormous family -- 14 kids, 3 bio ones and the rest fosters that were taken in and adopted, most of them still teens and younger -- so they have a huge house and they're well used to little-kid chaos and sort of revel in it. But right before people were scheduled to arrive, their house came down with some severe plumbing problems, and stuffing it with 30+ people was just a no-go. So, they ended up here, at more or less the last minute.
The kids are 4, just past 2, and 7 months old, all in the age range that I can't tolerate. I'm OK with tiny, non-mobile babies, but after they're mobile, I do not want until they're about 8-to-10 or so. So, since they were here, if I wanted peace, I was the one who had to leave my own house. Which isn't terrible or anything in the grand scheme of things, but it is annoying. Plus, the 7-month-old had an ear infection, and flying cross-country didn't help it. They almost cancelled coming out because of it, but the 4-year-old had been promised learning how to snowboard and would have been totally crushed. So then daughter-in-law was going to stay back with 7-month-old, but that seemed unfair to DIL to be deprived of her family, and I and the other grandparents hadn't even seen the younger two kids in person. So, they drugged 7-month-old up to his eyeballs, and did the thing. So 7-month-old was just crabby and awful and had trouble nursing the whole time, which only added to the crabby awfulness, which in turn made 2-year-old awful. (Four-year-old was actually pretty OK the whole time, did learn to snowboard, and sort of fell in love with my husband. Which, you know, I understand. *laugh* They both cried when she left. :) ) I understood that the baby didn’t feel well and the 2-year-old was upset by it, of course, but that doesn't make it any less annoying when they're both screaming more or less 24/7. Gave me terrible flashbacks to my daughter's preemie-baby/toddlerhood. *sigh*
But yeah, I survived to rant about it. :)
niamh-sims replied to your post “OMG, I'M GLAD THAT'S OVER!”
I am a woman who doesn't want my own children (much to the chagrin of many people I speak with), and I struggle with other people's kids. In saying that though, I absolutely adore my 5 year old nephew, he is a dude, and my 9 year old step-son is an old soul and extremely mature with a wicked sense of humour. They're all I need!
I hate the presents aspect of it!
See, 9-year-olds I'm (usually) fine with. My window of intolerance is from about 6 months through the little-kid years. It seems like when a kid hits 8 or 10 or so that a switch flips in them and their behavior changes from little-kid to big-kid. Sometimes that happens earlier, often with girls; I've known 5-or-6-year-old girls (and a few boys, too) that I've been just fine with. I’ll probably be fine with my son’s eldest when she’s 5 or 6 because she was pretty OK even at 4 under trying circumstances. But mostly it seems to happen in the 8-to-10 window. It's the start of "tweenhood," I guess. I'm fine with "big kids" even if their chronological age is a little younger than normal to be a "big kid." I'm also perfectly fine with teens, even when they're really surly. I'll take a super-surly 14-year-old over a "cute," bouncy, loud 2-year-old, even if well-behaved, any day. Which is weird, I guess, but there it is. Someone has to deal with the teens. :)
And yeah, the presents thing. In my own, nuclear family, starting when it was just me and my little kids, we don't do presents other than small hand-made gifts if someone feels like making them. We just did stockings on the morning of Xmas Eve. They were filled with little things, small toys and candy and as they got older some more practical things, like makeup/nail polish or small bits of sports equipment and stuff. When they hit tweenhood, we'd each fill each other's stockings, not just me filling theirs. We developed a tradition of exchanging goofy toothbrushes that way, of all things. :) It wasn't that we couldn't afford to do big gifts; I just didn't want to instill that kind of mindset in them. Our tradition from the time my youngest was about 8 was to spend Xmas Day at the local shelter/kitchen for homeless/transient people, which did both Xmas breakfast and dinner. We'd be there, kids included, from pre-dawn until after midnight, prepping, cooking, serving, eating with the people the kitchen served, and cleaning up. It was actually really fun (the kids even looked forward to it) and really fulfilling and, to me, that's what Xmas ought to be about. Not the consumer frenzy. I have no interest in feeding and perpetuating that frenzy and while it caused some problems as the kids grew up when they found that their peers got showered with extravagant gifts, they also realized that they’d get gift-showered for their birthdays, and they've both said that they prefer the more low-key way we did Xmas as a family as well as the more service-oriented mindset, which they both have continued. Aside from this Xmas just past, which we did more "traditionally," but still without extravagant gifts.
hugelunatic replied to your post “OMG, I'M GLAD THAT'S OVER!”
I love my granddaughter to pieces! But I can only stand being around her without her parents around. LoL
And hello my fellow Grinch! *loves*
They are definitely better without their parents! :) We took 4-year-old to the slopes on the day after Xmas without her parents, and it was a ton of fun. Spent the whole morning teaching her how to snowboard, had lunch in town, boarded bunny slopes/courses with her, would have done dinner out, too, but she was crashing by that point, etc., and it was all great. None of us, including the 4-year-old, wanted to go home to the screaming baby and toddler. *laugh*
I will be fine when the kids are older. I'm fine with my other set of three grandkids -- the kids of my firstborn, whom I don't call "my son" because he was adopted at birth, so I don't feel that I am his parent for all that he's my bio-son -- the youngest of whom is 8 and the eldest almost 15 (and a Simmer, along with his next-younger sibling :) ). They live in Botswana, but they come over to the states fairly often and will be here this coming fall for a month and will stay with us, and I'm perfectly fine with that. The problem is, my son and his wife want a large family -- She comes from one, they're conservative Christians, etc. -- so by the time they're done having/adopting them, it'll be a long time -- probably longer than I'll live -- that they'll all be older. So then I'm put in the position of wanting to be around some of them but not all of them, which is not fair to them, but...yeah. In some ways, it's good that they live far away. I'm good with visiting with all of them via Skype. :) But they might not always be far. When my son retires from the Army after he puts in his 20 years, they plan to move back out here. But I might not be alive by then or at least I might no longer be able to live at altitude, so there's that. :)
And...GRINCHES UNITE! *high five*
mustluvcatz-reloaded replied to your post “OMG, I'M GLAD THAT'S OVER!”
And there I was.. Happy as hell to see my grands and sad to see them leave. But I rarely see them so.. *back to being a Scroogy Grinch*
I think most people are happy to see their grands and sad to see them leave. I'm an outlier, I know. I've never actually liked little kids, despite raising two of my own. In truth, my husband and I were pressured into it, he more so than me, but I was trying to be a "good, obedient Christian wife." It's not surprising that I struggled and that it all contributed to the end of that marriage. I did not enjoy my kids when they were little. I gave up my career because I felt that I had to (Husband didn’t want me to, actually, but I couldn’t imagine living the life we lived dragging a kid around, which was another nail in the marriage’s coffin), and there’s a part of me that will always regret that. And I resented that my husband didn’t have to give up his career, that of course it fell to me to do so. I mean, I loved my kids, of course, but that's a different thing from wanting to be around them all the time and always enjoying their company. It was a huge struggle for me, and I'm glad it’s over. Teen/adult kids are great, though, and I'm thankful they both turned out well. Because, yeah, I’m a mom who doesn’t like kids, and worse I was a single mom who didn’t like kids, which could’ve been utterly disastrous, but I muddled through, living for the day when they’d be grown-ups.
And more for the Grinch Club, woo! :) (Also, I am only just now reading about what you're going through. I am so, so sorry. :( )
simaddicted-sue replied to your post “OMG, I'M GLAD THAT'S OVER!”
I feel your pain and raise you 14 grandkids I love them dearly especially when they are not here lol
*sigh* Should I live long enough, I'll have at least 14 grandkids. My firstborn and his wife are done. They only wanted two, especially because there were problems with the second pregnancy. The third was an IUD fail, and then both got surgically sterilized in the aftermath, just to be safe. But my son and his wife....They want 8, minimum. They're planning on 4 bio kids (and will gladly accept more if they happen), and then they want to adopt, just as her family did. And then there's my daughter and her partner. They will marry in a few years and they're both anti-kid right now...but they're also only in their early 20s and when their mutual female biological clocks kick in, who knows what might happen? They might be like me and remain uninterested in kids for life or they might not. In any case, my health is not the best and will only get worse as time goes on, so I will have that as an excuse not to have littles around much, at least. There are silver linings to chronic conditions! :)
dunne-ias replied to your post “OMG, I'M GLAD THAT'S OVER!”
meh, stay healthy and you'll live to have a relationship you might even enjoy when they're older. Not everyone has to like kids, even it they're related to you. I had my nephews visiting for a few days, which meant 4 days of almost non-stop Zelda-playing, but they're in just the right age for a visit, as in mature enough to handle their basic needs on their own.
Yeah, older kids can be a lot of fun, and I have no -- or at least a lot fewer -- problems with them. My firstborn's two eldest kids play Sims (The eldest plays TS4, but the 13-year-old prefers TS3. :) ), so sometimes we'll be on Skype together, all playing our games and yakking at each other about it, for hours, and we have a lot of fun that way. The TS3-playing kid and I are playing Dragon Valley concurrently, cycling through the premade households and doing different things with them, which is fun. And my son's four-year-old sat on my lap while I played TS2 a bit to chill out this past week, and she was fascinated and “helped” me a little, so now I plan to "groom" her as best I can going forward. ;) Video games are a good way to bond with kids. :) And when the firstborn's family is here, I'm sure we'll be doing plenty of that, as a group, since all of us love video games of various types. The Mortal Kombat tournament will be vicious and I will undoubtedly lose, but I will have fun while I am repeatedly, violently killed. :)
We'll just have to see what happens with my son and his planned never-ending parade of children who aren't allowed a lot of screen time and "educational" video games are only allowed in very limited doses. *sigh* I have to come up with a sales pitch that makes TS2 “educational.” Well, it did make my daughter interested in the Middle Ages, since she played a medieval game, and she is now working on a graduate degree in Medieval Studies and has a talent for writing well-researched historical fiction as well as interesting narrative non-fiction, so....
pensblr replied to your post “OMG, I'M GLAD THAT'S OVER!”
My husband and I really chuckle quite a bit (as we continue to happily enjoy our child-free lives) when we are judged for not doing the whole kid thing by people who always seem stressed-out trying to juggle everything. I'm like 'I don't judge you for wanting children. So don't judge me for not wanting them.' Recently had a male colleague tell me that God put men and women here to have children, and if we didn't "What's the whole purpose of life then?"
Yeah, child-free is a great way to live! Especially if you're double income/no kids, I'd imagine. IF you can deal with the constant judgment and the pressure from people who want grandkids or nieces/nephews and the accusations of being selfish and pressures from one's religion, if that's a factor, and all that crap, of course. :\
Since my husband is almost 20 years younger than me, has no children, and I'm past menopause, I get a lot of side-eyes not just for our age difference (though with my gray hair dyed and a general lack of wrinkles because I’ve never been able to expose myself to much sunlight, I look (and act) younger than I am, so at least that helps with that) but also for our inability to procreate. I get a lot of "But what about when he wants kids? It's not fair to him to be married to someone who can't have kids!" (Which is a lovely argument to lob at anyone! I mean, I guess involuntarily infertile young people shouldn't marry fertile people then? *eyeroll* ) But he doesn't want kids. His own father died suddenly at 39 of a massive coronary, and when it happened his mom checked out for a bit, leaving him to deal with his grief and mostly raise his three younger siblings -- the youngest of whom was only 2 -- until she got her shit together, which took her years to do because she got addicted to the tranquilizers the dumbass doctors prescribed and had to do rehab, etc.. He did his time parenting starting when he was 14 until he was about 22. He has zero interest in having his own kids and can’t imagine that changing, though he loves being around other people's kids that he can give back to their parents. He absolutely loves being a step-grandparent of 6 at the age of 37, in addition to being an uncle to his siblings' kids. :) Even if he does eventually want his own kids, it'll probably be after I'm gone and then he'll be free to find someone to procreate with, if he and that partner want to spawn. So, I tell those people to just fuck right off.
And ugh, that "God put men and women on Earth to be fruitful and multiply and if you don't do it you're just selfish -- and having “sinful” sex -- and going against God's will and there's no point to your life" thing. That's why I had kids. That's NOT the right reason to have kids, but I was so brainwashed at the time that I didn't think that way. Or at all, really, at least not about that subject. Ugh. Ugh ugh UGH! I wish I'd responded with a polite-but-mighty "fuck off," too...but I DO like my kids and am thankful that they exist, so...yeah.
Rant! Sorry! :)
mdpthatsme replied to your post “OMG, I'M GLAD THAT'S OVER!”
28 years old, don't like children, don't want to have children because I know this about myself and I'm ok with it. People tell me it's a phase and I'll want children soon enough. I'm like, uh, no. Family and friends get aggravated with me when I don't hold their babies or don't want to watch their children. Like has the point not come across yet?
Yeah, everyone tells under-30 women who don't want kids that they'll change their mind. So many women want to be sterilized but doctors won't do it because "they might change their mind." Some have the nerve to get them to get permission from their husband, if they're married. My daughter suffers from terrible endometriosis is in almost constant pain from it. Over the years she's gone through all the treatments short of hysterectomy and nothing has worked, at least not permanently. She badly wants that hysterectomy but to date has found no doctor -- at least here in the States; I’m thinking she might have better luck in Europe -- who will do one because she's only 22 and unmarried. They think she'll marry a man (which she won't do; she's pretty firmly declared herself a femme lesbian) and then magically want kids. They even have the balls to tell her that if she goes ahead and births a kid, that might cure her condition because GOD FORBID they just do the relatively easy procedure that will likely cure her. Instead, they'd rather saddle her with a kid or at best make her go through a pregnancy and then have the kid adopted. At which point the endo might just come back again.
I really can't believe how misogynistic gynecologists can be, even the female ones. Maybe their brains are warped by the women who desperately want kids but can't have them. I have enormous sympathy for those women, truly I do, but their plight should not prevent women who don't want kids from taking more drastic steps to not have them and certainly shouldn't force women to suffer through medical conditions that would be cured or at least made better by being completely sterile.
And yeah, the family constantly pushing babies at you and wanting you to babysit, just because you happen to have a pair of boobs. Nope. I'm thankful that my gay brother and his husband are not interested in kids and wouldn’t have cared if I didn’t have any, and that my mother is indifferent to the concept of grandchildren, but I DO have a lot of kid-crazy cousins that I did my best to avoid like the plague but when I couldn't were constantly trying to "convert" me by shoving their "adorable" babies in my face. They don't do it anymore with our advanced age and all, but when they were actively popping them out before I had any, as an older teen/young adult saying I had no interest in kids, it was like they were on a freakin' crusade, complete with forced conversion. *eye roll* Even though at that point I HAD birthed a kid not at all by choice and had given him up for adoption. Nope, not good enough. I had to have one that I wanted, I guess. And when I did have kids, they were all smug and, “See, we knew you’d change your mind!” Even though I really hadn’t. It's sick. Not every woman loves babies/kids.
MOAR RANT! More sorry. :)
yuichen
replied to your post
“OMG, I'M GLAD THAT'S OVER!”
36, no kids. I like my brother's but probably because they're older and I missed most of their early lives. My cousins' kids, however? Fuck no. I avoid the whole massive family gathering because they weren't taught to have respect for people's things, or how to not act like little psychos. I'm talking jumping on the furniture and running around screaming while their parents do absolutely nothing. In a small house. Fuck. That.
Oh yeah. In my experience, the most adamant baby-pushers were the ones who had the worst-behaved kids. They "loved" them so much that they never established/enforced boundaries and thought that any kind of discipline would damage them somehow. *eye roll* One of my cousins never made her kids sit down to eat. They just wandered around the table grabbing food (with their hands!) from serving dishes or, worse, from other people's plates. They let them do that in restaurants, even. It was disgusting. Or, the most adamant baby-pushers were the ones who were also complaining about how stressful their life/marriage was and who could be heard pining for the pre-kid years of their relationships. And I'd just give them a meaningful look. But if you point out that you just don't want to complicate your relationship/life by adding spawn to it, well then you're just “selfish.”
Yup. I was at some point, at least in that regard. Being a more fundamentalist-type Christian in my 20s/30s warped my brain on the subject, but down in my heart-of-hearts...I would've been perfectly happy being that kind of "selfish." No, I wouldn’t give up my kids now, but if I’d never had them, I would’ve been perfectly OK, too.
