#zenless theory

[the-collector-blog]

Belle & Wise = Sunbringer & Joyous?

are they clones of the two? and were joyous and sunbringer actually siblings?

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so there's this poster hidden behind a wall in the HIA. it says "pathfinder, pioneer, pilot". representing the role of an investigator/proxy. of a trailblazer, like Joyous. like Phaethon. it looks like the perfect in-between of belle and wise, imo. perhaps bc it was made in Joyous's image, but the HIA is open to all genders, so they made a more ambiguous design. (and bc, as the player, you can see Either proxy in it.)

the circles around it intrigue me. they could be like a sun and a moon, sun and a hollow, or even represent the moon in zzz, which is black of the left side and white on the right.

now, i do think that wise could legitimately be a clone or descendant of Joyous. for numerous seasons, and obv they just look alike.

so what about belle? is she another clone of joyous, but female? or perhaps her and wise are both just regular siblings descended from him? However. belle does have similarities to lady Sunbringer, and it's possible that Joyous was an older brother of someone... possibly Sunbringer herself.

see, he's described as "the one who went through the divine maze", the first person to successfully navigate out of a hollow. specifically Papago Hollow, with the help of the first bangboo prototype, made by Sunbringer. (this is also why they're called "carrots", btw. bc bangboo are inspired by rabbits, and what do rabbits eat?)

so, anyways. "Papago" is an outdated name given by the spanish to the Tohono O'odham people. in their mythology (according to yk basic googling), the creator god is I'itoi, and this name means "Elder Brother". he is most commonly known as the "Man in the Maze".

and keep in mind that belle's hair color is also originally the same as wise's, due to her eyebrows. (they don't match her blue hair.) here's a mod showing her w/silver hair, compared to Sunbringer:

then we have this. the red line is Belle, and the blue is Wise. belle mentioning the sun rising from the hollow, in stark contrast to wise... this could be significant. see, lady Sunbringer is called that because she "defeated the hivelord hollow in the sky", essentially bringing the sun back to Eridu.

then there's this cutscene from the prologue. wise and belle are shown differently here, with what looks like the HIA symbol behind wise's head, with belle off to the side as the other sibling. the cutscene is the same regardless of who you choose, btw. only wise is shown like this.

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...so maybe they're clones of each of the two, or descendants of joyous, who was actually sunbringer's older brother.

we have no information about belle & wise's family or origins— they mention each other being the only family they have, and a child's drawing in one of their rooms shows just the two of them with a house behind them. no parents, not even carole, who perhaps would've taken them in after that was drawn.

also: the mayor (mayflower family) and void hunters were all connected. this includes helios academy, which was founded by the void hunter Arche. in the present day, the mayor was also a dear friend of carole arna's.

if you were to give humanity a fighting chance at navigating through the hollows, how better to accomplish this than with the progenies of actual void hunters? whether this is due to them happening to be their descendants and being found by carole/the academy, or due to some place cloning the void hunters.

i actually think the cloning could've been done by the white star institute, if the siblings really were just orphans found and taken in by the academy. unless the academy itself made them, and carole decided to raise them.

[the-collector-blog]

k so helios academy had a Plan that was like the projects in hi3. it was all to give the inhabitants of eridu a fighting chance against the hollows. probably by recreating past void hunters. (referencing this theory about seed, and this about belle & wise)

[the-collector-blog]

i think it's still likely that carole arna was morally gray, rather than purely good. this is a huge theme in zzz, and has been emphasized lately in the story.

she somehow gave the proxies eye implants that were meant to connect them with the HDD and her bangboo, Eous.

she took them in and was like a mother to them... but in the way that the exaltists saved yuzuha ("if we hadn't taken her in, she would've starved to death") and master saved harumasa (a child left behind, doomed to become an ethereal due to his condition, and master was creating a serum for him).

"the deceit and exploitation were real, but so was the care and kindness."

we don't know wtf that was at the end of 2.2, when she appeared in the miasma. the proxy suggests that she might not have necessarily said all of those things.

and as far as i can tell/recall, the only reason that the proxies think she isn't necessarily responsible for the fall of the old capital is because she was good to them, and more than anything, they just want to find her again. they want to know what happened.

[the-collector-blog]

so i realized smth. a hollow forms and expands due to the presence of organic matter. that's why we have only seen hollows on the land, where people live.

so how did one form in the sky? there had to have been a huge amount of organic matter there. and if this wasn't simply from the moon (it looks too big and too close to be that), perhaps... there was once a floating mass in the sky?

from the exploration commission "the prophecy". h m m m m m m.

and, well, eridu citizens did seem to have gone to space. see this dialogue from ben's quality time invite...

crazy. and then this huge switch/probe thing in aerospace city implied to be in contact with outer space objects.

[the-collector-blog]

hugo says he can barely remember serena's face now. in the drug-induced hallucinations, her likeness never appears— only her voice, and a teddy bear on a chair wherever she is supposed to be.

"let's play hide and seek! i'm already hiding. you'll find me, right? like you always do!"

"you're looking in the wrong place! i found an even better hiding spot this time! harder to find than any place you showed me~"

"still looking in the wrong spot! i can't believe you still haven't found me after all this time..."

what if this is showing how her visage has largely faded from his memory? or that he's repressed his memories of her? he last saw her long after he saw his mother, yet he can see the latter in vivid detail. serena is the only hallucinated figure he can't interact with in one of those cutscenes.

... it makes sense. if you saw your only beloved family member...like that, having met such a drastically horrific fate... sigh.

he says that vivian "looks a lot like serena". and we know they look basically identical, so it makes sense that he'd at least be able to make that connection, even if he can't really remember her face.

ough......

[the-collector-blog]

i think there is actually a good chance that hugo knew the proxies were phaethon the entire time, like before he even set foot in their video store. (though my thoughts are admittedly scattered and disconnected.)

he'd already done research on them, he knew vivian would love them... in fact: maybe he heard what vivian would say about phaethon and figured a proxy that good would be a genuinely great ally to him/mockingbird.

maybe he had already planned allll of the stuff out beforehand, and was considering going to extreme measures if necessary. but he didn't want vivian to be left alone with nobody to guide and watch over her, so he got to thinking about this phaethon person...

the video store visit was meant to get a read on them. on if they were decent people to be around, bothered by dark stuff, or faint of heart. get a sense of their morals, too.

[the-collector-blog]

... i dont know how many ppl are on the same page as me regarding the vivian = serena theory. i'm only finding more supporting evidence everyday. but anyway, something particularly of note...

in the background is a castle... a manor. and hugo is leaning on what i'm now thinking is a cross-shaped tombstone. it makes sense that serena would be laid to rest somewhere near the ravenlock manor. ..........

[the-collector-blog]

my analysis of hugo & lycaon's current relationship 🏳️‍🌈

i am fully and completely convinced honestly that hugo and lycaon have reconciled and are basically together now. and that, specifically, they are keeping it under wraps.

they also have every reason to keep it secret. like it actually makes so much sense. it'd complicate victoria housekeeping's reputation, put hugo and mockingbird more into the public eye than they already are...

vivian and lilac are in similar positions when it comes to hugo and lycaon. and both like and read fanfiction about the pair, seemingly without knowing that they're together (if they are).

then as far as the proxy, i mean... ig there's no need to tell them? it wouldn't improve anything necessarily. both hugo and lycaon trust the proxy implicitly and have their own dynamic with them. there's no real reason to add more to that? and also, the game would never confirm outright to the player that the two are dating.

they have both made a living for themselves and can't fully partner up like before. their factions are becoming familiar with each other, and know that they: spend time together, care about each other, and are regularly collaborating behind the scenes.

i think they're right where they need to be right now, settling into a dynamic/situation that works for them. actually, perhaps they are simply in a situationship. and romantically involved, in secret.