Sans titre

[nemetonisevilpassiton]

Another thing I wanted to ask was what do you thing of the use of claustrophobia in teen wolf? Of course the only openly claustrophobic character is Isaac but it seems as though themes as "being trapped" are used often: Stiles or Peter being locked inside themselves (by the Nogitsune or the coma), Malia being trapped in coyote shape, the schoolnight, the kidnapping, the siege, etc... Maybe Stiles' symbolic revolving around keys and doors is also hugely symptomatic of that fear (he's the one that ends up being the most trapped whether it's in a room or outside reality, in a nightmare, situation, etc). He's also the one handling mountain ash the most (ultimate trapping device). Then there's the lingering question of repressing the beast (trapped inside like for Scott) or releasing it (s1 Peter) which is illustrated with the bank vault debacle. And of course with the question of small opressive spaces broadens to the idea of open and huge oppressives spaces: Erica talks about vertigo (which appears more than once), you talked about the bodies of water, there's the woods that seems almost always mainly unknown and to be discovered, there's the white space in which Stiles is during the Void, etc...

(and there's Stiles shitty understanding of spaces and how he keeps bumping in thing but that's something else)

I thought it was an interesting subject and I wondered what you had to say about it since you seem to have a huge grasp of cinematic symbolism, of the horror genre and a precise analysis of teen wolf

i am avoiding writing my fic again, just finishing this cup of tea [black tea with peach and passionfruit, yum] before vanishing back into the void

and you're right - it's not interesting it's fascinating

and absolutely something that should be explored, because the fears of claustrophobia and vertigo are linked to the concept of void, as is water [dark water in teen wolf is ... water is bad, lets leave it at that because it's a huge thing.

Void is absence but also the presence of emptiness - it is by its nature paradoxical, space is a thing but it is defined by the fact that there is nothing there- arent definitions fun

so Erica's vertigo could be an exhalation of Void which we know was messing with the town since the 40's at least, but probably early, was the creature that possessed Rhys an avatar of void or do we call it that when it's probably the creature from Outlast instead. The possession of Rhys does not match the hallmarks in canon of a nogitsune possession [interstingly the thing in the movie DOES - leading me to suggest in the meta discord about how it might be allison's nogitsune and explaining why it was fascinated with scott and wanted revenge on him when the stiles possession used him like a lunchbox and dropped him like trash]

right let's use an easy example - sandra bullock in gravity, imagine the vertigo of that - there is NOTHING in every direction, if the world goes spinning are you spinning or is it a trick of the mind....

but claustrophobia is the absence of space - it is the mind taking away the space around itself in the same way that vertigo is the increase of space

i hope I'm making sense but basically vertigo and claustrophobia become inverted mirrors of each other because of Void

are these phobia manipulated by a creature that feeds on fear?

Stiles' fear of drowning is .... for a long time the meta pack were saying we think Stiles' mom tried to kill him [from 306 onwards in fact] and she might follow the line of La Llorona because of Stiles' association with both water and drowning

as a rule in teen wolf still water = death, unless stiles is there, I'm summarising a lot of work there, running water = corruption unless stiles is there

stiles is the qualifier - Scott is an outlier [most patterns exclude him] but Stiles changes the game without even intending to - characters find themselves revealing great secrets to him, Argent voices his doubts, the chemist revealed his great plan [and do you think Stiles popped his head unknowingly or did mctall shoot him?], Stiles can break mountain ash with a wave of his hand, Stiles makes and breaks doorways, he is a creature of transitional spaces [a huge deal in the is stiles something argument], and his phobia is the opposite of void's two machinations - like the literal opposite, you are both adrift and surrounded - the water is both crushing and holding you up away from the bottom, it is neither vertigo [you[re supported] or claustrophobia [you're not enclosed]

so here's the question - did void possess stiles because he was powerful or because he had no power over him

every power that stiles showcased as void he used when he was not possessed and he is linked to the nemeton - and when void first took stiles he tried to kill him

fun aint it?

[tristan-guard]

I mostly agree with you analysis of the two forces of the Nogitsune and Void but I don't see the possession in the same way AT ALL. And for me that's the Teen wolf Rashomon effect: we all saw a really different serie.

For me, and it especially struck me the first time I saw it, Teen Wolf's subject, the main topic is mental health and trauma responses especially dissociation and derealization (especially with all the dream sequences the constant confusion with reality).

For example, Jackson displays textbook avoidant attachment disorder (also called dismissive) and his whole arc revolves around it. Very shortly, he's seemingly independent and sure of himself but concretely he's unable of sharing intimacy and of being vulnerable and his self confidence is in reality fickle. The fact that the scene where he heals he is naked (vulnerability) is telling. This is a disorder over-represented in orphan too.

Except Scott all the main characters deal trauma each in their own fucked up way. Peter is obsessed with control and power after having been completely stripped of both. Derek struggles to let anyone in and express his emotions, he desires intimacy and partnership but fears it deeply and is so unable to answer his beta's need(we could say it's a disorganized attachment style which while being technically true it develops in early childhood and we don't know of Derek's childhood so it must be an equivalent linked to Kate's abuse). He hurts himself to stay in control, lives through the pain and the anger basically is a hot mess and his healing goes through confronting both his childhood self and abuser.

Scott is the only one in the show that does not suffer heavy mental issue. Lydia has a fugue state, Alison tries to kill people, Malia lands in Eichen House, Isaac has severe panic attacks, etc... And I think that's why he's the main character, it may be due to his self centredness or to the fact that he is one of the only character whose self worth is internally defined (sure he represses his wolf and anger and all but he doesn't do so to please others, he's capable of being proud and satisfied of himself through his own criteriums while all the others are dependant of each others).

The most obvious character struggling with mental health is Stiles and yet he's CONSTANTLY overlooked in that matter (by other characters and the fandom). Of course he has ADHD, that's canon (I think) but that's not enough to explain his struggle (and ADHD especially in the teenager and adult can be considered more as a symptom than a cause). He shows many signs of mixed anxiety-depressive disorder which wikipedia defines mainly through:

"A dysphoric mood is chronic or recurring for a minimum of four weeks and has at least four of the following symptoms: troubles concentrating or with memory, disturbed sleep, tiredness or lack of energy, feeling irritable, worrying, crying easily, enhanced sensory state, expecting the worst, feeling hopeless or pessimistic, or having low self-esteem/feeling worthless."

Or at least anxiety disorder in which falls I believe the fear of drowning or social anxiety, they are not there by themselves they are here because of his generalized anxiety (the fear of drowning doesn't appear before Matt shares his story, not even when he's stuck neck deep in water carrying Derek). He's also insecure in his relations and suffers low self esteem. He expresses (subtextually) suicide ideations more than once or at the very least the appeal of death and its final "relief". People and characters especially explains Stiles' struggles by the Nogitsune/Void when in reality he struggles before and after it, it wasn't all planted evidences to throw them off track.

I've always seen the Nogitsune/Void as a form of decompensation

(ie. a breakdown in an individual's defense mechanisms, resulting in progressive loss of normal functioning or worsening of psychiatric symptoms.) it's a worsening of symptoms that are already there accompanied with confusion and loss of contact with reality (he doesn't if his dreaming or awake) so dissociation, specifically depersonalization/derealization disorder for the loss of reality sense but also dissociative amnesia (ie fugue state). Dissociative disorders are deeply linked to PTSD (though they can be caused by stuff like decompensation too). It's a way to protect your mind from something it simply cannot deal with (so it is both deeply negative but also can be seen as a desperate move of self-protection by the subconscious as can appear the Nogitsune which can be seen as an embodiment of Stiles' struggle).

So does the possession targets him because he's mentally weak and barely functioning already or does he trigger the possession by breaking down? (all the other character possessed are dead) The sacrifice they commit to the nemeton and the "darkness around the heart" is something that Scott and Alisson are able to live with and conceal while Stiles is hypersensitive to it and it leads him to decompensate because "too much is unbearable" and it destroys his balance and doing so his defence. Stiles is ALWAYS shown as unstable, he rumbles, has trouble concentrating, controlling his emotions on the contrary he reacts quickly and shows signs of mood swings, his emotion from the beginning constantly overtake him (a borderline Stiles would be arguable but someone this young can't be diagnosed with BPD anyway). He is constantly "scattered" when other are "anchored"

And by the way nearly all teen wolf characters show signs of dissociative episode at one point or another (whether its fugue state, derealization, lack of emotions in highly emotional moment, or even hallucination, etc)

That's my first reading of teen wolf and I was really baffled at first that people didn't see the same thing AT ALL as me^^" but some saw it as an horror serie, some as a teenage drama or even romance so I'm really not the only one to be confused in interpretation

[nemetonisevilpassiton]

Hello! From what I gathered you are DarkAthena's meta account (i hope I'm not mistaken) and I just discovered your meta and I must say I really like it! At multiple occasions you mention symbolism and colour theory in teen wolf. I wondered if you would be willing to do a more complete summary of your understanding of it. I have a few idea of my own but I especially liked when you talked about mirror and Scott Mccall's messed up reflection of the self and I 100% agree with Stiles and transitional spaces (keys, door, etc).

Well all that to say I'd be really interested in your interpretation of Teenwolf's symbolism:)

this is a bit of a - symbolism is a huge chasm of a topic, and there are symbols we understand and ones that are clearly there but make no sense - like Chris Argent keeps showing up in scenes with frogs, ceramic frogs, frogs in a shadow box [in his office] and it's like, okay your association is frogs - but what does it mean, is it the way he flip flops on his opinions, is it a reference to the frog and the scorpion and how he is always going to be the victim ....

the thing with symbolism is you have three issues

people agree what the symbolism is and disagree what it means

people disagree what the symbolism is but agree with the final conclusion

people disagree there IS symbolism

now the color theory/symbolism primer is the result of LOTS of work that happened in the background, with people going look! and then it falling apart and worked over and ground into the dirt and still it's not definitive because it's an impossibility. Even if Davis et al sat down and laid it all out - people would still disagree with it

the primer

now most cinematic [and to an extent literary] symbolism is based on Freud, specifically Freud's dream dictionary [yes, really] and the problem is that most western writers know that symbolism, so they continue what they see etc - this is true of colour theory and was the WORST because teen wolf's colour references are reversed because the symbolic associations of godai [the five elements, each representing a season] are reversed

so if we take the basic Earth - it represents repression, claustrophia [I read the other ask, give me a moment] the keeping of secrets, the concept of compression. Like in ATLA the city that denies the war is Ba Sing Se - a city of earth benders with a huge earth wall. See how it works and that's normal. You bury things you don't want people to find so earth = hiding things, lying to keep a secret.

now in teen wolf Earth represents the opposite, the release, the revelation of secrets, rebirth, Derek's evolution is in the earth series [4] and look how much of that series takes place underground, in the vault, in la iglesia, the underpass at the school

mirrors = mirrors mean differnet things to different characters, traditionally a mirror is used to reassure that the self is correct or to tell an undeniable truth [Snow White, Nehelenia's mirrors] which applies to Stiles

they can mean a transition between places, or how those places are seen [Alice through the looking glass, or Candyman] that applies to Lydia

or they can show just how fractured a character is - the broken mirrors [a lot of slasher movies] = Scott

but add on to that the phantasmagoria sequences which were called mirror verse because often details were reversed = it's a very complicated theory that involves a lot of pointing that and that charlie day jpeg with strings and stress

Scott's symbol is shadow - which was a nightmare to work out btw, look how often he is show in shadow, he saw his beast self in a shadow etc - and when I pointed that out the wankstorm could have been seen from space = but all it means is that he has a dual nature - rather than derek who is one as a wolf and a man = werewolf, scott never reconciles

when you point them out they are super easy to go - oh yeah that makes sense, but other people might go - melissa has all those owls because she likes them,

all the way through 6a the meta pack were screaming about the yellow wallpaper and no one knew why until lydia pulled away the yellow wallpaper to reveal the door and we're like WE TOLD YOU because when you dig in and look critically you start to see patterns and those patterns go back to something famous, like how in canaan it was like event horizon- we knew EH was there, but couldn't prove it

and that's the ultimate truth

its not about what you think - but what you can prove

now if you wanna headcanon stiles as penelope from the odyssey [the fic i'm working on] you don't need proof, but if you wanna mess around with the guts of it [a good critical look is often like a dissection]

symbolism can be a nightmare, it can also be an easy step into deeper literary theory - which is what it is - we call it meta because we don't have to put it in the proper format and link a bibliography with books we pretended to read

symbolism is like - oh this appears a lot - does it mean anything

but sometimes the symbolism makes a clear point that just isn't there

derek is association with stairs - traditiionally stairs represent sex [think of old movies where characters would go upstairs, fade to black and it's obvious they had sex] up means accepting, down means rejecting, and derek doesn't even walk down stairs until season 3, he jumps - which prepresents an unwanted sexual attack

see that's solid

but Derek buried peter in the basement - gothic symbolism representing sex, specifically repressed desire [think fall of the house of usher] at the bottom of the stairs - which in symbolsim add them up and you get = Peter violently sexually abused Derek and Derek is hiding it

but there is no evidence of it whatsoever - so somewhere the symbolism as it is historically doesn't match, and it might just be that by burying peter he releases him [see the jennifer and nurse jennifer theory] from his madness and the set was too small for it to be anywhere but the bottom of the stairs

and yet people can argue that it's solid even though it's not explicitly supported, because Peter certainly encouraged the relationship with paige which ended so very badly....

symbolsim - it's a fancy word for your guess is as good as mine but at least now we've gotten past the point where the very mention of colour theory gives me eye twitches

[tristan-guard]

Now Sexuality in Teen Wolf, that's an endless subject but I'll try to stay organised this time...

Stairs and States of Being

First of all I didn't knew the sexual symbolism behind stairs so I always read it as a transitional symbol between an "upper state of being" less grounded, more spiritual (heaven in religion), the ground floor: life, anchored, concrete and practical and below the earth either hell, or concealed hidden truth (it's where Gerard hides Stiles, Erica and Boyd, where the wendigo have their slaughterhouse/butchershop, etc, where the dread doctor hide etc). Now the stairs aren't one or the other, they are a transitionnal space, going from below ground to ground floor is rebirth (through stairs or not ie Peter or the worms) going from ground floor to upper floor is ascent, going from ground floor to below earth is dying or petrating a secret and going from upper floor from to ground floor is Derek.

The upper floor isn't life either: in Eichen House there's a hanged, but it's a spiritual state of death instead of the concrete and physical state of death we find in the earth (Peter is dead and burried physically but still sufficiently mentally and spiritually potent to haunt and manipulate Lydia). The symbol of the tree is all states united in one (the roots are anchored below earth and the branches extend to the Heavens (or Sky if I was less dramatic)) but the Nemeton is cut down which obviously represents a imbalance or desiquilibrium. Derek is the only one "in touch" with his spiritual state of being, he's the only one that can extract himself from a situation, that isn't constantly pushed around by the present problems or desires and can think outside of them (the only one who's really connected to the past and what is gone, otherwise the past is present in teen wolf only when it comes back in the present tense), the only one that can leave Beacon Hills and the only one that evolves and it's all connected to his grief.

We've never saw anyone else than Derek on the upper floor of the Hale house I believe, the way I see it is upstairs he lives his grief surrounded by the mental spirits of his family but he's constantly disturbed in it by concrete life and violently brought back by earthly troubles (he jumps the stair down). In the first seasons especially he's never fully there, he's stable and seemingly anchored but nearly doesn't speak, always hidden behind a facade, until season 3 (where he also mainly frees himself from either threat as Peter or the Alphas but also from the desire of power) he can't reconcile his grief to his earthly presence (the fact that he is alive and in the present) the two are always clashing and it impacts his way of building his pack (surrounding himself by teenager who needs him and whom he needs but keeping them constantly at a distance and arguably pushing them away), his messed up relation with Peter (who is both his uncle from the past and his sister's murderer in the present) and etc...

Now an other way to see is that more often then not he is on top of the stair (he is also really often filmed in a low angle shot) it is a way of displaying his physical supremacy or his power (like batman), in the first season he appears from the top of the stair, asserting his dominance and comes down to kick Scott's ass. They say that Derek loves an entrance, that's his way of protecting himself he always appears through an image, a display of superiority.

Now Peter being burried on the bottom of the stairs: like I said physical death and mental spiritual ascent (he's not laying down like we normally burry people or how inconscious people behave but in a semi foetal position surrounded by roots seemingly pushing the soil which both foreshadows rebirth and the fact that he's still behaving like a living (he's still sensitive and delicate)).

The fact that he's buried in the Hale house has MANY significances. Laura is buried in the backyard not under the house, she has the aconite flower which marks her tomb, honours it but also unites as would a tree the underground and the skies. Peter isn't paid such respect (understandable) but his body isn't just dumped like many are (the omega, Matt, etc) it's part of the ambiguity of Derek's feelings for Peter. Derek buries him in the center of the Hale house which how we've said can be seen as a physical representation of Derek's mind or at the very least is a relique of the past. He's buried and concealed under the Earth but also very much present in Derek's mind (arguably in the center of it). We can also say that by burying him in the house he offers him back to the past: it's where he should've died, that's a way of honouring his memory without honouring the person he became. It's also a way of completing the memory of the house and the people that lived in it with Peter being Derek's last living member of his family (he doesn't know Cora's alive) and indeed when Lydia visits the house through Peter's "possession", it is still empty but looks less abandoned or dilapidated. Peter was the unresolved piece of the Hale house arson: he didn't made it out alive, but wasn't dead and buried, he was stuck somewhere in between. Arguably they "healed" Peter by killing him, he comes back less crazy and feral, more in control of himself, he's not stuck in the in between anymore, he went through the circle of the state of being (it's not a coincidence that Stiles and Peter are the ones in the wild hunt, they are the two traveling between the states of being, of life and death, losing control over their body or their mind alternately. There are also the only two characters dying, coming back to life and really feeling the consequences).

Stairs and Sexuality:

This links makes sense, whether it's Derek's link with sexual assault or Peter's repressed sexuality but I don't think we should necessary link the two. I know it's personal but I don't like the idea of Derek being abused by Peter, I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, it could especially in explaining the complicated relationship Derek holds with Peter. But it's not necessary in understanding the TV show and I like it better without it (really too seedy for me).

Now that being said Derek is the result of sexual assaults and I think it's an important part of his character's personality but Kate will stay the perpetuator in my mind because it makes sense and hell he's been through enough. Peter, him, is really interesting in his link to sexuality: he's undeniably creepy (especially in season 1 then he's completely dissociated from it and when he's dead to Lydia) with Allison and Melissa at least. He's got this obsession with skin which is not subtly linked to his own covered in burns, what attracts him is life and health, he's creepy because he's got that whole predatory thing going on but if I remember correctly he's the only one who has no sexual life at all (he doesn't as much as kiss someone). I'm from the opinion that Paige was his girlfriend not Derek's and he's HEAVILY repressed. His attraction only surfaces when he wants to piss Scott off/scare people and assert his predatory status, it appears more manipulative than earnest and that goes hand in hand with the fact that he always appears to be the most "civilised" and in control of his urges (of I'm not talking of the beast of S1). When he comes back he nearly completely blocks the wolf in him.

Which brings me to my main point: One of Teen Wolf main topic is sexuality and it's a Dangerous Dangerous Thing.

Werewolves and Sexuality:

Werewolves have been a metaphoric representation of violent sexuality for a long long time. The same way as a Vampire bite is a metaphor for the act, werewolves are predator that traditionally comes out at night to violently aggress maiden (see how the maiden here is represented by Allison). It's the fear and the conflation of different concepts: the inner beast that represent primal urges and violent impulses (hunger for power, domination, sexual desire, ...). You lose control on "your beast" when your heart beat rises, when your excited, etc... Plus the werewolves are "hypermasculine" all with the hair and the forehead

And at no instance in Teen Wolf, sexual acts strips themselves from the concept of danger.

Derek only has sex with killers (it's almost like he's afraid to hurt it's partners...) and at no point in the story shows obvious sign of arousal

Peter has no sexuality but is predatory

Isaac and Allison are about to have sex but reject intimacy

Scott cannot control his sexual urges (claws appears when he's turned on, there's a scene where he has an unvoluntary boner) even once he does bad things always happens (when Alison and him "shares a moment" in the car the kanima escapes) and he puts himself in great danger to indulge his desire (with Alison being hunter legacy). With Kira he always appears "cool", it's his motorcycle arc, where he, too, wants to be in control and intimidating but in result he never expresses desire (a little like Derek and the other werewolves who uses sex as a tool of domination, manipulation and of intimidation but never (except for Isaac) express genuine sexual attraction)

When Ethan and Danny are about to in Motel California Ethan freaks out and there's an "inner threat" in his stomach

On the three virgins sacrificed, only one was truly about "purity", the two others were about to lose their virginity (sexual act=DANGER)

When Caitlin flirts with Stiles, he realises how he is violent and a threat himself

Stiles has is first time with Malia under the influence of void

Each times he shows attraction to Derek aren't especially moment of body proximity like in the pool or of semi nudity (like Scott would) but when Derek's all threateny (basically his libido toward Derek is tied to his fear)

The 2006 swim team is to occupied flirting to notice 8 years old Matt drowning

All of the parents' date are interrupted by Danger whether it's Peter or the Kanima

etc

Plus all the time there's remarks or subtexts linking sexuality to being dangerous or predatory

Lydia's "ton and ton of Fresh Men" and Alison's "they're boys"

Lydia's seduced by Young Peter's "rapey language"

Derek kissing Erica

Scott dreams of violently attacking Alison, Stiles says something along the line "I have a lot of dreams where I wake up panting and in sweat but that's not usually the same content"

The chains to restraint Scott for the full moon that rolls off the locker in S1 visibly appears to the other like some kind of BDSM thingy (Coach's and the locker boys' reaction when it could have been more probably for his jeep) Same when Stiles puts the handcuffs on Malia

S1 Scotts keeps shifting in the locker room which is a place of nudity

etc

I know there's like a thousand more examples in both category the only one who has a sexuality not constantly linked to danger is Malia and she's the only one to thrive through the beast inside and to fully embrace it (plus she lacks empathy). Otherwise each time something happens or is about to happen in bed there's a bad thing that happens right after. The beast and sexual urges are linked and so also to danger and control loss.

Derek is I think really interesting because he appears like the predator but is the victim. And the whole character is hardwire backward (which is sadly frequent to SA survivor): "Pain makes you human" when all the other werewolves start shifting under great pain. He also constantly tries to empowers himself through his sexuality but with no success (except maybe with Braeden but it's a far away memory for me)

I recognize Stiles attraction for Derek as a headcannon and maybe reciprocally but I don't ship them together as I think it would be really bad for them. It's normal for Stiles to be turned on by Derek, but the way I see it is that Derek's attraction is symptomatic of the abuse he's suffered and the fact that for him Stiles is the only trustworthy and earnest character, it's a natural reaction but it would be a good thing for neither. Moreover I think that the fact that Derek obviously likes and trusts Stiles but constantly shows contempt and belittles him (at least up to 3b) and even threatens him is TELLING that he's not ready to consciously accept the trust he feels for him, it's not really banter and sass like Stiles does

I hope I'm understandable and that there's not too much mistakes English isn't my first language and I struggle

[nemetonisevilpassiton]

Hello! From what I gathered you are DarkAthena's meta account (i hope I'm not mistaken) and I just discovered your meta and I must say I really like it! At multiple occasions you mention symbolism and colour theory in teen wolf. I wondered if you would be willing to do a more complete summary of your understanding of it. I have a few idea of my own but I especially liked when you talked about mirror and Scott Mccall's messed up reflection of the self and I 100% agree with Stiles and transitional spaces (keys, door, etc).

Well all that to say I'd be really interested in your interpretation of Teenwolf's symbolism:)

this is a bit of a - symbolism is a huge chasm of a topic, and there are symbols we understand and ones that are clearly there but make no sense - like Chris Argent keeps showing up in scenes with frogs, ceramic frogs, frogs in a shadow box [in his office] and it's like, okay your association is frogs - but what does it mean, is it the way he flip flops on his opinions, is it a reference to the frog and the scorpion and how he is always going to be the victim ....

the thing with symbolism is you have three issues

people agree what the symbolism is and disagree what it means

people disagree what the symbolism is but agree with the final conclusion

people disagree there IS symbolism

now the color theory/symbolism primer is the result of LOTS of work that happened in the background, with people going look! and then it falling apart and worked over and ground into the dirt and still it's not definitive because it's an impossibility. Even if Davis et al sat down and laid it all out - people would still disagree with it

the primer

now most cinematic [and to an extent literary] symbolism is based on Freud, specifically Freud's dream dictionary [yes, really] and the problem is that most western writers know that symbolism, so they continue what they see etc - this is true of colour theory and was the WORST because teen wolf's colour references are reversed because the symbolic associations of godai [the five elements, each representing a season] are reversed

so if we take the basic Earth - it represents repression, claustrophia [I read the other ask, give me a moment] the keeping of secrets, the concept of compression. Like in ATLA the city that denies the war is Ba Sing Se - a city of earth benders with a huge earth wall. See how it works and that's normal. You bury things you don't want people to find so earth = hiding things, lying to keep a secret.

now in teen wolf Earth represents the opposite, the release, the revelation of secrets, rebirth, Derek's evolution is in the earth series [4] and look how much of that series takes place underground, in the vault, in la iglesia, the underpass at the school

mirrors = mirrors mean differnet things to different characters, traditionally a mirror is used to reassure that the self is correct or to tell an undeniable truth [Snow White, Nehelenia's mirrors] which applies to Stiles

they can mean a transition between places, or how those places are seen [Alice through the looking glass, or Candyman] that applies to Lydia

or they can show just how fractured a character is - the broken mirrors [a lot of slasher movies] = Scott

but add on to that the phantasmagoria sequences which were called mirror verse because often details were reversed = it's a very complicated theory that involves a lot of pointing that and that charlie day jpeg with strings and stress

Scott's symbol is shadow - which was a nightmare to work out btw, look how often he is show in shadow, he saw his beast self in a shadow etc - and when I pointed that out the wankstorm could have been seen from space = but all it means is that he has a dual nature - rather than derek who is one as a wolf and a man = werewolf, scott never reconciles

when you point them out they are super easy to go - oh yeah that makes sense, but other people might go - melissa has all those owls because she likes them,

all the way through 6a the meta pack were screaming about the yellow wallpaper and no one knew why until lydia pulled away the yellow wallpaper to reveal the door and we're like WE TOLD YOU because when you dig in and look critically you start to see patterns and those patterns go back to something famous, like how in canaan it was like event horizon- we knew EH was there, but couldn't prove it

and that's the ultimate truth

its not about what you think - but what you can prove

now if you wanna headcanon stiles as penelope from the odyssey [the fic i'm working on] you don't need proof, but if you wanna mess around with the guts of it [a good critical look is often like a dissection]

symbolism can be a nightmare, it can also be an easy step into deeper literary theory - which is what it is - we call it meta because we don't have to put it in the proper format and link a bibliography with books we pretended to read

symbolism is like - oh this appears a lot - does it mean anything

but sometimes the symbolism makes a clear point that just isn't there

derek is association with stairs - traditiionally stairs represent sex [think of old movies where characters would go upstairs, fade to black and it's obvious they had sex] up means accepting, down means rejecting, and derek doesn't even walk down stairs until season 3, he jumps - which prepresents an unwanted sexual attack

see that's solid

but Derek buried peter in the basement - gothic symbolism representing sex, specifically repressed desire [think fall of the house of usher] at the bottom of the stairs - which in symbolsim add them up and you get = Peter violently sexually abused Derek and Derek is hiding it

but there is no evidence of it whatsoever - so somewhere the symbolism as it is historically doesn't match, and it might just be that by burying peter he releases him [see the jennifer and nurse jennifer theory] from his madness and the set was too small for it to be anywhere but the bottom of the stairs

and yet people can argue that it's solid even though it's not explicitly supported, because Peter certainly encouraged the relationship with paige which ended so very badly....

symbolsim - it's a fancy word for your guess is as good as mine but at least now we've gotten past the point where the very mention of colour theory gives me eye twitches

[tristan-guard]

Well Symbolism is intrinsically an interpretation, it can't really be cannon (unless the director reveal it) and is most often than not highly subjective but that's part of what's interesting. (sometimes when I talk teen Wolf with people I think of Rashomon like we all saw technically the same TV show but we all have seen really deeply different things or a different story and that's because a huge part of it is up for interpretation)

So yeah don't worry about it not being unanimous or canon, I asked you so that I could have a new interpretative frame of reference.

Thank you a lot for the primer!

To continue I have to disclaim that I know the first seasons nearly by heart (until 3a, ironically 3b is one of my favorites) but have seen the 2 last seasons only once years ago (I didn't like them at the time and never rewatched them) so my annalysis may sadly be incomplete:(

Colours (warning it's unclear)

I don't really agree with your colour analysis, well... not entirely. While blue, green and black are obviously correct to me the others seem too fickle to be pin down like that. I'm working on memory here so I apologize if I'm saying bullshit but I'm thinking about Stiles outfit, he often wears red with no empowerement, yellow with no revelation and if they are Earth tones more often then not I'm wondering if we can not apply here an individual or semi individual interpretative framework (same as for the mirror). This colour theory works wonder on Lydia (again I'm on memories) and werewolves seem to have a "unified" colour work: where red is empowerement, black and white layering (corruption+concealement) is both a reappropriation of their image and power (often through their looks and "attractivity") but also a mask and a facade, concealement, (they make themselves canon of beauty but they look statuey not lively it's less expressive than Stiles for example) [writing that I'm thinking mostly of Derek and his minions Erica and Isaac] Can we also apply it to Allison who often wears Black and white? she's also emotionally constipated and uses her apparent power as a facade to threaten and feel badassy, when she protect herself that way she's less expressive and "in touch with her humanity" or is it someting to be read entirely differently? She's an heir, the lack of colour represents status and the age of her family, she's often dressed in a "classic"/"antique" way (I know nothing of fashion I hope you understand what I'm trying to convey). I think that we can't really apply black=corruption on werewolves (or is the fact that there werewolves a corruption in itself?) Boyd is in black more often than not, the way I see it it could also represent a symbol of "seemingly apparent" control of themselves or seemingly apparent wisdom even. But then again Boyd can't seem to be analyse using your colour theory: he wears a lot of white, cerulean blue to the lacrosse game where he play... Peter always sways from black to muddy very dark colour (purplish or more often brownish). The black seems mainly to unify the beast and the human (there's something so very human and civilized about the leather jackets) it's both a very civilized control of your appearance and a representation of the power you hold (it's threateny) and I think that woud apply to Scott too with his tanktop. I will stop myself here because to form a correct opinion instead of spitballing ideas I should rewatch the show but it's not on Netflix anymore... And I will not pretend to have a strong grasp of colour theory in teenwolf I never paid much attention (except when it's obvious: so on Lydia or Peter's red on the dance night that type of thing).

To conclude I feel like colours in Teen Wolf have to be seen nearly individually, it doesn't seem to have the same meaning on different characters.

Symbolism

Well first of all Chris and frogs: as you said there's no way to know But! Frogs are amphibious and we've already talked about the role of water in teen wolf. We could say that like a tadpole he grew up in the waters and hunters and all but contrarely to other hunters he got out.

Second of all Butterflies: Butterflies are mythologically representaion of the soul. They can be psychopomps in Greek mythology and often are in art (if they don't accompany the soul to another state of being, they embody it during the transition from the body to the spiritual state of being in Hells). Moreover in Greek Mythology Psyche=soul=butterfly (litteraly the word could mean at the time), the character has butterfly wings once she becomes a Godess.

I don't know if you're familiar with the story of Cupid and Psyche but basically: beautiful human that pisses off Aphrodites because she threatens her with her beauty (while innocent of course), she sends her son, Eros (or Cupid) to make her fall in love with a monster, but he falls for her, when to the oracle's word she is sacrificed to a monster on a cliff but Zephyrus (the wind) to Eros request, saves her and brings her to a wonderful castle in the sky where she's completely isolated. They fall in love but she is not allowed to see him as he is a god and his identity is secret, they see each other only at night with no light on, she's lonely, he invites her sisters one day, they are jealous of the castle and all, they tell her that he's an evil Dragon that she ought to break the promise and watch him. At night, she takes a candle to see him in secrecy when he's asleep, he's beautifull (litteraly Eros son of Aphrodites) but a drop of wax falls on him, burn him and awakes him. He flee, betrayed and here it becomes interesting: Psyche lost her true love and betrayed him, she pleas to Aphrodites to reunite them but Aphrodites thought she was dead she's PISSED. She torture her and makes her go through different trials to prove her worthy of his love all fatal because her goal is to kill her, she basically Cinderella her way out of the first, befriending ants that help her sort cereals, plan to kill herself during the second one (drown herself in a river to be precise) but the river deity pities her and helps her not die during the trial, during the third task she has to collect Styx water in a cup but instead of dying Zeus eagle form complete the task for her.

"For her fourth and final task, Psyche was given a golden box and ordered to travel to the Underworld to retrieve a bit of beauty possessed by Persephone, goddess of spring, queen of the Underworld. Psyche, believing this last task was impossible, once again decided to take her own life. She climbed a tall tower and prepared to jump, but the tower spoke and instructed Psyche to go to the border of Sparta where she can find a passageway to the Underworld.[15] Upon arriving, Psyche was surprised to find that Persephone willingly filled the box with her beauty. However, on her way back to give Aphrodite the box, curiosity once again overcame her and she opened it. Instead of finding a sample of beauty, she found a cloud of darkness that put her in a deep sleep.[6]" (Wikipedia Psyche)

She dies and Eros brings her back to life with a kiss (or and arrow for the Roman) and they make her godess of the soul. She's one of the only mortal to go to the Hells and leave alive. While we can say she seduces gods through her virtue (she's really nice and pious but at the same times she's curious and look at Eros and opens the box) which is partly true, most of all it's her mortality that seduces the Gods and makes them help her. She is brave (especially in the greek lore) and go through all the trials but she also constantly despair and attempt on her own life. She represents the trial of the soul and it's eventual ascension.

Now if I had to link Stiles with a greek mythological figure it would be Psyche: first of all he represents humanity (way more than Allison or the parents), second of all in a world of Monsters and supernatural being, most supernaturals love him and help him (the villains that really don't are Gerard and Jennifer), third of all he goes to hell and back (3b or wild hunt), he's one of the most "virtuous" character (he empathise and always tries to do what's right, Scott does not it's obvious with the Derek debacle in first season) but he always tiptoes the line of morally reprehensible (he steals, lies and is curious), he's the only one that expresses real mental anguish (more so than Lydia) and the whole conversation with Morell tackles the subject of suicide, he shows sign of passive suicide ideation.

And last but not least the transitional spaces are Psyche's thing too, she keeps traveling, crossing bondaries: on the cliff for the sacrifice, she travels through the wind, she crosses multiple rivers and is often above (the cliffs, the tower, etc), after being casted off the castle in the sky she wanders, lost, at one point she breaks into an abandonned temple (of Demeter) cleans it and revives it for the hell of it, then of course she goes to hell and back and most of all represent the soul changes of states: she goes from human to Goddess and the butterfly is the soul outside of the body but before being in hell (it's the in between state).

Last of all:

"In Jungian psychology, the psychopomp is a mediator between the unconscious and conscious realms. It is symbolically personified in dreams as a wise man or woman, or sometimes as a helpful beast.[13]" [Wikipedia- Psychopomps]

Stiles is the one that appears to Derek's dream sequence before he's taken, he guides Derek through it to reality.

Psyche or not I'm utterly convinced that Stiles is an allegory of the soul/Self, mortality and humanity (the soul is also represented by a spark for those who loves Spark!Stiles) and while most of Teen Wolf characters struggle with humanity he constantely guides them. Plus the riddle: "Everyone has it, but no one can lose it. What is it, Stiles?" the answer is shadow but it could be soul (the answer is physical the body when it could be spiritual the soul as you need the two to make a being, the question is there to make us question what makes someone, someone). I felt watching this that the first answer that comes to mind is the Self (with the oni's kanjis and what not) but the fact that it's not the answer highlight the fact that Stiles is indeed losing his Self

I'll do a different post to answer the stairs and moreover Sexuality in Teen Wolf (which is terribly interesting) because this is getting long but as a transition here is what the Oracle says to Psyche's parents before they sacrifice her:

"Despair, king. Your daughter will marry a beast even the gods fear. Dress her in funeral clothes and take her to the tallest rock spire in the kingdom. There, she shall meet her doom."

(she litterally marries the God of physical love, sexuality and desire, the funeral clothes represent the death of her childhood and innocence before she goes and lives the married life)

[nemetonisevilpassiton]

I was thinking about the Stiles coming out of the Nogitsune Stiles bandages on the floor. Is he from a parallel world. Something changes in the dynamic in the group after the Nogitsune. Do you have any thoughts. With mirror verse and all?

I told people to ask

okay, 

there are two possessions, bandages which IS a nogitsune and void!stiles which is the stiles that appears on the nemeton

remember he appears, leaves the nemeton and is born out of Stiles

now the clues ARE there

Kira tells us that nogitsune’s, well kitsunes period, hold a grudge and will do anything to fulfil their vendetta

when she’s talking to her dad about playing go with her mother Kira deliberately names her mother as playing as the nogitsune but Ken recognises Noshiko’s playstyle

in the flashback we see something possess Rhys’ corpse and go on a killing spree, the way she tells the story you are meant to assume it’s a nogitsune but it’s not confirmed, she calls for a nogitsune - void!rhys rises

The bandaged figure is something Stiles didn’t recognise, he had no frame of reference for it, there is no reason for him to see that, but Noshiko did know it

When the bandaged figure told Stiles it was trying to save his life it was telling the truth because the possession wanted Stiles to die in the cave, it was because of the bandaged figure he called Scott

the bandaged figure needed permission to possess Stiles but it didn’t need permission to possess Rhys, several times it asks permission to possess him - let me in the other possession doesn’t need to ask permission

the bandaged figure, despite appearing monstrous, saves stiles, in the cave, in the MRI to an extent, in Stiles’ mindscape by scaring Lydia into going the right way, and in the winter garden by making them focus on the sword and the reflection in it

the stiles figure is playing go in the dominant role against the bandaged figure, which a sixteen/seventeen year old boy could not do, and it upsets the board suggesting he was losing

change the host in japanese does not mean transform it means get a new host, it’s two very different words and Deaton lets them assume, Kirikaeru means to switch but to transform is henkoo suru, so you’d kirikaeru to changes clothes but henkoo suru is to turn into a magical girl

a divine move is tricking a doomed boy into saving himself by appearing to work with the force trying to kill him wouldn’t you say