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@wedontcareaboutyourbinary
Hiatus
This seems like as good of a time as any to announce that we’ve been on a bit of an unofficial hiatus, and after a few of us talked have decided to move it into the “official” realm.
One of our mods has been pretty much inactive for a long time now, two of the others just aren’t on tumblr much anymore in any capacity, and I’ve started to gravitate away from discourse and focusing my energy elsewhere.
-Mod Sully.
Is this blog truscum/transmed-friendly? Please tell me it isn't
I’m not sure what post this is in reference to- as we haven’t posted within the last month- but no, the mods on this blog are all against truscum ideology.
-Mod Sully
Hey I'm the anon looking for the word meaning "physically displaying traits of having gone through both puberties". Sorry for the confusion! Basically I want both a beard and boobs+curves (sorry if tmi) and want to find youtubers/bloggers/ect with a bodytype like that who talk about their experiences finding jobs/friends/transitioning/ect. I relate to bearded binary ladies who chose to grow their beard out but even they are HARD to find (if u know any, or any bearded male cross-dressers - [1/2]
[2/3] plz tell!) and I can't find any nbs with similar body goals. Searching "androgynous transition" and the like only results in "no gendered traits" nbs - who I do find kinda relatable if they want a strictly androgynous presentation w/ no masc/fem leaning, BUT it's still not entirely what I need. IDK I feel weird and alone and want a word to find enbies like me. Or even binary people that have a body like my ideal one; even if their gender is vastly different I desperately want to hear -
[3/3] that some people, somewhere, live with a body like that. If they can get jobs, friends, partners. Or if it's hopeless. (I hope this isn't too negative - I'm pretty good at dissociating from my body, and improving all the time, so I can learn to live without my ideal... BUT the thought of never getting to have it is pretty unpleasant. Both sides of the binary are equally unappealing, and "no gendered traits" androgyny better but still not what I truly want)
Right, right, that makes sense. I understand the concern here.
To the best of the knowledge of our mods, there isn’t a word to cover that concept. That’s not hugely surprising to me, at least - transition goals can be unpredictable and highly variable, so it’s hard to pick out distinct types or groups thereof.
I definitely understand the feeling alone, and I’m sorry to have to say that I don’t have any helpful resources to point you to. The intricacies of medical and physical transition are somewhat beyond the bulk of our mod team, but if anyone else does have an idea where to start looking, feel free to let us know.
- Cade
hi i was trying to join the nb discord (if its still active?) but the link i saw was expired? thanks for any info u can give me!! <3
The Discord is still alive and kicking ferociously. Public invites only go out once every few months, though, and only for 24 hours at a time. (There are reasons for this, which I am going to add to the FAQ at some point soon.) We’re sorry that you missed the last window, but there will be other opportunities.
- Cade
So, I currently have no clue what my gender identity is. I just that I really freaking hate the fact that I have a female body + am a female. So currently I'm just trying to take on a more androgynous (or whatever the word is in English) look and refer to myself as nb (in my head, bc I'm ascaredy cat). Any tips on how I can figure out wth my gender is? Also, bc my biggest fear is offending people, it's not like bad that I just currently identify as nb, bc I don't really know what else?
Figuring out one’s gender can be a difficult process, and it’s not really one where there are any hard answers, but we’ve got some stuff here on the blog that might help. (There’s probably more posts and other off-blog resources, but I’m not wearing my glasses right now and can’t read through everything to find out.)
And no, it’s not bad to use a word that seems like it fits just because you’re not 100% certain. Sometimes you gotta try something out before you can find out if it’s right for you or not.
- Cade
I've identified as non-binary for a few years now, but after browsing the traa and egg_irl subreddits compulsively, I am having serious doubts and feel that I might be binary trans or stg close to it. Do you know of some online space where I could talk to people about this (preferably for adults)? While these communities on reddit seem very supportive, they are a bit too meme-oriented.
Are you looking for spaces that are open to discussing Gender Feels in general, or something more specific to a binary trans experience? Those are two slightly different things, and we’re not exactly well equipped to handle the latter here.
- Cade
Hello I am currently conducting a study on the effects of stress on the well-being of Transgender individuals. Would it be possible to share the link of my survey on your account? I would really appreciate the help.
We can certainly consider doing so, but, uh... what link is it we’re meant to be sharing?
- Cade
Hi! I didn’t know who to ask but I know ur blog covers stuff like this so,, as someone who is an ally but is cis bi (but closeted) I was wondering how I might explain being nb to some less open minded cis hets, although I understand my self I have trouble communicating my points in person... basically I was wondering how to be a good ally in reply to a question/statement like “well if people are identifying as nb, aren’t they just reinforcing the fact that there are only two genders?” /1 -✌️anon
I didn’t know how to explain how that’s not the point of nb and that it’s not like a thing where they couldn’t choose between the 2 mainstream genders (which is what the girl I was talking to was making it out like) so I told her that as a cis person I am obviously not to right person to talk about The experiences of people who are nonbinary but that it shouldn’t even matter to her and that it’s our jobs as humans to accept people who are just trying to feel comfortable in their own skin /2 -✌️
So I’m not really sure if that was the right way to go because she still kept on like talking about trans people and nb people like they’re some subhuman race and I got frustrated because I wasn’t able to express my thoughts or actually put out some awareness for people who are misguided in their assessment of Trans and NB people... so yeah I just wanted to know what would be a good response to situations like these where I can see a window for discussion and opportunity to raise awareness -✌️
I definitely appreciate the intent here, but honestly? My gut instinct based on what I’m reading here is that the girl you were talking to had bigger problems than being ‘misguided in their assessment of trans and NB people’. Needing a few goes at the ‘nonbinary includes a variety of genders that are not ‘man’ and ‘woman’ so saying that IDing as such enforces a binary is nonsensical’ is one thing, but ‘talking about trans people and nb people like they’re some subhuman race’ is the point at which I start writing people off as beyond my immediate ability to help.
Obviously I can’t speak in much detail to the conversation ongoing, so I can only guess at the broad strokes of its tone, but in general: there are going to be people who aren’t going to respond to attempts to raise awareness or correct random misinformation. Saying ‘that makes no sense because ‘nonbinary’ includes a bunch of other genders so how the hell would it reinforce there being only two’ or ‘that’s not what being nonbinary means’ (or even ‘do some research before you open your mouth’ if you’re feeling catty) is a perfectly acceptable route to go down in trying to explain to other cis folks, but you’ve got to be prepared for some individuals to shrug off any attempt at an explanation you make.
If there is room for a discussion: stick to the facts, be patient, and don’t expect them to go from utterly bewildered to Super Ally in any kind of hurry. (This stuff’s a learning curve for all of us, some people are just a lot more motivated than others to learn!) Educating people who are reluctant to learn or just a long way behind is a patience game, and sometimes there are going to be people who aren’t worth the effort it’ll take from you. And that’s frequently a bigger issue than how well you’re explaining things.
- Cade
I just found this blog (fellow nonbinary here ! More specifically agender) and I was wondering what does unaligned mean ? I’ve seen it around at times but still confused on what it is & isn’t.Does that mean someone who doesn’t have any connection with womenhood or manhood ? Someone who isn’t attached to the binary & binary things/gender at all ?
Depends who’s asking and who’s talking. People will use it to mean both of those things and a bunch of other things too. It gets used as a middle ground between male and female alignment, a separate thing of its own, and as a substitute for ‘does not use alignment’ depending on the day. A communal frustration with the vagueness of alignment terminology is the reason this blog exists.
- Cade
Hi! Just wanted to say I love your blog so much! I have a quick question: why won't you take requests with sparrow/peacock/raven or swan/fox/stag? I haven't heard anything problematic surrounding them, but totally understand that you wouldn't want to use anything harmful. I'd just like to understand. And have you considered coining new terms? I'm a masc-leaning enby and what one would call a stag sparrow under that system, but I'd like to have a similar term that isn't offensive. Thanks!
hey!! so the terms themselves are useful imo, but i was contacted by the creator, who informed me that they intended for these terms to be used by nblnb people only (like how wlw have butch/femme and mlm have bear/twink, etc). the terms were stolen by other people and changed to be used by all nb people. i want to respect the original coiner’s wishes, and i don’t want to support those who stole terms, so i don’t use them.
i can’t find the post(s) at the moment, but i remember seeing a fruit-themed presentation system that was intended for all nonbinary people. i think there are others as well, but that’s the one i remember.
Swan/fox/stag is for all nb and gq people actually!
There’s a divide about the bird system; the creator has said that they’re for diamoric people, that is, any attraction for or by a nonbinary person. They were grouped together by another person, but the bird creator has requested they be kept apart and unrelated.
Some parts of the nonbinary community were upset by this, some because of the diamoric limit excluding all aroaces and bigender people who conceptualize themselves as mlx and wlx simultaneously, but not nblx. Some unaware of the conflict about the coining still group them together. Others believe that it’s the community’s, and the individuals of the community’s, choice how to use, modify, expand, create, and apply the terms and symbols for and by the community
This is among one of the many ongoing debates that are happening about the community versus the coiner, and who has the rights to call the shots and determine use and form.
Iirc, the coiner of gai abandoned and tried to recall the term, but others who use the term now claim as it is used by nonbinary people, especially as an identity, the rights now belongs to all nonbinary people, particularly those who identify as gai. Likewise strayt was coined from a misunderstanding of gai, however the nonbinary community has adopted it as well and it remains in use, its definition altered for function and usability just out of group agreement, I suppose.
Sort of like the debate of whether or not things created by trolls should remain in use, be in use with a disclaimer with it at all times, or naturalized into the queer lexicon (Examples like dollgender, initially made by a troll, or recipro- which was denounced by its coiner who went on to take a stand against the community in general)
Some folks involved in the coining of the swan/stag/fox system here to say: @electric-milk-carton has an accurate and good take! We were not involved in the creation of the original avian system, and although we did originally like it (except for the “diamoric only” bit, which struck us both as aphobic and also a misunderstanding of the term diamoric, which one of us ALSO was involved in coining — it does not mean nblnb) and wanted to use it and build upon it, the original coiner was unhappy with how we chose to do that.
So, yup, here to confirm that the two systems were not coined by the same people and are unrelated to one another, and that the swan/fox/stag stuff is free to use by ANY non-binary or genderqueer person and always has been!
— Mod Lune
In a moment of great anxiety (and sobbing) I came out to my mother but said that I didn't think my conservative family would respect my wishes for new name and pronouns. She told me it's their religious right to misgender me and I was just throwing a fit because the whole world won't bow to me. She also implied that I'm weak and pathetic for being emotional and "letting silly things like that get to me" and being mentally ill in general. Do I have to be nice to her ever again?
You don’t owe your mother anything, and you’re under no obligation to treat her with respect when she seems utterly disinclined to show you any.
That said: please take a step back and think about yourself first here, anon. If you’ve just come out and that’s not the safest place to be in emotionally, it’s way more important that you’ve got some way to keep yourself safe than that your mother gets whatever she might deserve. Get some space, breathe, and see if you can figure out what you need to do to get some safety somewhere. Whatever your mother deserves, it is way more important that you figure out what you need than what you owe her.
- Cade
Okay so idk if this is the right place to ask this but you people are lovely and I need to vent so... Any tips for navigating dating as a nb person? I got out of a relationship like 6 months ago and my ex was really great about gender stuff. But now I'm anxious that whenever I meet a person I want to ask out, they'll turn out to be transphobic. Like I'm scared they'll say they accept the nb thing but then secretly just think of me as my agab, especially since I'm comfortable with any pronouns.
Pretty common anxiety among NB folks, that.
I don’t know if there’s any kind of silver bullet answer to the question, to be honest, but what you’re going to need to learn at some point is to trust your instincts and your ability to set boundaries. If your partner isn’t treating you with respect, you need to be able to say as much. Whether that’s telling them to shape up or getting out of the relationship.
It can be a risk in a lot of ways, existing as NB, but that’s something that you’ve got to navigate on your own terms, rather than depending on existing structures to find a place for you.
Some other mods who actually date might possibly have some more practical advice?
- Cade
hi! I’m new to your blog as you can probably tell, since I’ve been reblogging a lot of your posts bc I think they’re great! but there’s one idea here that I’m not so sure about. you seem to support the idea that nb people can’t identify as straight or be in a straight relationship and I don’t really understand that. imo, being straight is being attracted to 1 gender that is different from your own, so an nb person who only likes men could be straight. could you explain your thoughts on this?
‘Straight’ is, in the vast, vast majority of circumstances, synonymous with ‘a centered (non-marginalised) experience of sexuality’. Nonbinary people do not fit into that model on any level. (Even binary transness makes it complicated!)
The redefinition of ‘straight’ as ‘a single gender other than your own’ was dreamed up with basically zero regard for the orientations of NB people, or the circumstances facing NBs when other people are attracted to them. I remember the push to use ‘other genders’ rather than ‘opposite genders’ in defining straightness, and it was never done because ‘NB people are included in straightness’, it was done because ‘opposite genders is a bad way to phrase it’. And then we ended up with this half-baked attempt at NB inclusion that basically just amounts to painting over the experiences of NB people with regards to orientation.
People do not, in general, mean ‘man + NB’ or ‘woman + NB’ or ‘genderfluid + androgyne’ or whatever the hell you want to pick when they say ‘straight’. They mean ‘man + woman’. People will misgender and paint over NB experiences to shove them into that model. When Straight people do it, it’s Straight people being their usual obnoxious selves. When other non-Straight people do it, it’s everything from unaddressed transantagonism to actively trying to paint NB people as having a privilege they do not in order to justify exclusion from non-Straight communities. (Which, if you’ve been a long way into the backlog, you might have seen me yell about before.)
TL;DR: We can sit here and make up our own definitions for ‘straight’ if for some damn reason we think that’s a good use of our time, but that is not how the rest of the world is using the word and I do not see how saying ‘this orientation that is generally understood to be privileged applies to NBs’ when NBs are in no way included in orientation-based privilege is in any way useful or helpful.
- Cade
not to Discourse but I’m a cis man and my partner is an afab enby and if you call us a “straight couple” I will personally come to your house tie you to a chair and make you listen to a podcast about gender identity on endless repeat
this is specifically @ the people who saw us at pride together and saw them wearing a “THEY/THEM” button and still referred to them as my “girlfriend” you’re all cancelled thanks
it’s called respecting queer people juice
y'know the really amazing thing about the notes on this post - apart from just the sheer number of people who are, like, viscerally terrified of the existence of a person who isn’t cis - is how many of them are responding to things that aren’t here. specifically, you’ll notice I said nothing about my sexuality. I didn’t say I identified as non-het, or that I considered myself part of the LGBTQIA community. on the flip side, I also didn’t give you any reason to believe I’m not bi, or that I’ve never been in a relationship with a cis man. y'all know nothing about my sexuality from this post and you don’t need to and I’m not going to tell you about it now because! this post! was not! about me!
it was about respecting my partner’s identity. and the fact that they don’t get that respect from people in the exact community that they should be able to count on getting it from.
ie, you.
they are not het or cis, and no relationship they are in will ever be a “straight relationship” because they. are not. het. or. cis.
everyone in the notes gatekeeping me because I’m “not oppressed”? I never said I was. the person you’re really attacking and invalidating by shitting on this post is them, a pansexual nonbinary person who is unerasably queer.
huh. it’s almost as if the whole “we can’t let straight men use queerness to worm their way into our community” discourse is just an excuse to hate trans people, isn’t it.
Hi, I'm in a pre-transition to NB phase, but do you need to identity as anything else to be NB? Or appear in a certain way?
What? Nah. IDing as NB is IDing as NB, and there is absolutely zero requirement to appear any particular way.
- Cade
Now seems like as good of a time as any to issue a reminder that no one individual person’s experiences are universal.
Just because you identified as (insert label here, usually nonbinary or aromantic or asexual because they get hit on for this the most) because someone gave you a bad definition, or because you thought you were that thing but later realized you were something else, or because you described your experiences and someone suggested that term, it does not mean that it is the fault of everyone who uses that label that that happened. Your individual experiences don’t somehow make the experiences of literally every one else who identifies with that label less real.
I hope this isn't too off topic for this blog? If so, just ignore, but I was was wondering if any of the mods knew an answer to a question. Androgynous seems to mean displaying no gendered traits, is there a word for displaying traits of both estrogen and testosterone driven puberties, rather than neither?
That’s a, uh, very particular usage of ‘androgynous’ that isn’t necessarily true to the word’s meaning or other usage. Androgynous is kind of the catch-all term for ‘presentation/appearance that is not cleanly masculine or feminine’. While there have been complaints for a while in trans communities I’ve been in contact with that this too often gets translated to ‘no gendered traits’, the few attempts I’ve seen to differentiate the concepts tend to resort to ‘undifferentiated’ or other terms of similar nature to denote ‘no gendered traits’ rather than trying to reword ‘traits of both’.
Now it wouldn’t as such surprise me if there is some vocab pertaining to the specific thing you’re asking about, but it’s not something that exists in juxtaposition to ‘androgynous’. And I do want to clear up (I can’t be sure that this is how you’re viewing the term, but the wording’s ambiguous enough that I want to be sure): ‘androgynous’ is by no means something only applicable to physical traits or the results of puberty, and I’m a little confused as to your placing it alongside the concept of ‘displaying traits of both estrogen and testosterone driven puberties’.
- Cade
