Hello members of the jury! I am 1moremilgram-enjoyer (nickname: FF), and I’m your
Local Amane Momose Apologist!*
*(Her character is nuanced and cannot be reduced to “a pure soul who’s done nothing wrong.” Understand I am aware of this fact and I am only calling myself an apologist in a hyperbolic sense. With that established, I voted her inno because she’s a pure soul who’s done nothing wrong)
This is a Milgram sideblog because it has consumed my brain. My main blog is 1moreff-creator, which is where my nickname comes from. If you want to talk to me about anything non-Milgram related, you might want to go there.
Planning to post analysis of all MVs and covers. Eventually.
Currently Voting: N/A
New to Milgram? Check this post out!
Master List of analysis and theory posts under the cut.
All Prisoners:
>Everyone is Dead Theory [Long]
>Milgram references in Milgram videos [Short]
000 - Es:
>Hibana Cover Thoughts [Short]
001 - Haruka:
>Two Breaths Walking Cover Thoughts [Short]
>Some Thoughts on his Parallels with Yuno (+0910 parallels) [Medium]
002 - Yuno:
>Sticky Bug Cover Thoughts [Short]
>Some Thoughts on her Parallels with Haruka (+0910 parallels) [Medium]
>Hachiko Statue in Umbilical [Short]
003 - Fuuta:
>Mozaik Role Cover Thoughts [Short]
>Background Characters in Bring it On: the Five Man Band trope, user icons and graffiti patterns. [Long]
>Observation on Fiction v Reality [Short]
>Fire and water paralles between him and Amane [Short]
004 - Muu:
>Otome Dissection Cover Thoughts [Short - Medium]
005 - Shidou:
>Liar Dance Cover Thoughts [Short]
>Small Theory on Shidou's "scientific purposes" Note: I misread the VD, it actually says “selfish purposes” so please ignore the science thing. Shidou was, if anything, killing to save people not from his own family before his wife entered a come or whatever happened. (and some words on another theory) [Short]
>Of German and Triage Tags [Short]
006 - Mahiru:
>Psychogram Cover Thoughts [Short]
>Couch Symbolism [Short]
007 - Kazui:
>Lyric Placement and Background Shapes in Cat. [Long]
008- Amane :D
>Purge March Analysis [Long]
>Positive Parade Cover Thoughts [Medium - Short]
>Fire and water parallels between her and Fuuta [Short]
>Magic credits, Katakana vs Hiragana [Short]
009 - Mikoto:
Disclaimer, a few of these talk about Trikoto, but honestly I'm not sure how much I believe that theory now, so take them with a grain of salt
>Full Theory on the Murders [Long]
>Some Thoughts on his Parallels with Kotoko (+0102 parallels) [Medium]
>MeMe and Control over One's Own Destiny [Medium-Long] (Slightly outdated)
>The Wheel of Fortune in Double and the MeMe spreads [Long] (Slightly outdated)
>Dominant Hands in Mikoto’s videos: Part 1 - Part 2 + Accirax explains why maybe it’s not important [Medium] (Outdated please ignore this)
010 - Kotoko:
>HARROW Analysis [Extremely long]
>On the Jacques Roulet cap [Short]
>Kotoko's Clothes in HARROW. [Short-Medium]
>Some Thoughts on her Parallels with Mikoto (+0102 parallels) [Medium]
Others:
>Explaining how voting percentages (generally) work, with Amane's case as an example. [Short] The voting predictions aged not-great as expected, but the main idea stands.
Just wanted to hear your thoughts on the new Underground video and what it could mean for Trial 3.
Hi! Just posted my thoughts on it!
Okay so for context, this ask got sent before I actually posted that, but after I'd started writing it. I just thought it'd been sent to my main, so I wanted to post the linked post before answering it. If I'd noticed it actually got sent to this account, I would have probably put my thoughts in this answer. Sorry anon, I got a little silly :,)
WOOOO MILGRAM TRIAL 3 IS COMING!!! The excitement is through the roof!!! I am very desensitized to character deaths so my desire for more content currently supersedes the sadness I am feeling!!!! Still, without any other info on T3 atm, I should probably talk about the thing we do have, no?
First thing to establish, I'm going in with the assumption that the three who didn't show up in Your (Curtain) Call are just dead, because I see no reason to believe otherwise. So, Haruka, Shidou and Mahiru are gone.
I'm frankly not all that surprised. Like, we knew what Haruka was gonna do from the moment Muu's verdict came out Unforgiven, the conversation Mahiru had with Kotoko in Kotoko's last birthday made it pretty clear she wasn't going to last much longer, and Shidou's death was always on the table when Amane's voting period finally closed. The big question was whether the writers would commit to killing off the characters before the true start of T3, and I'm actually kinda glad the answer to that was yes. Obviously I would have appreciated more time with them, and I sincerely hope against hope that we still get a T3 song for all of them, but the deaths are a good way to send the message to the audience that yes, consequences exist in Milgram, and yes, they're very serious.
Basically I'm actually kinda chilling, but that may just be because I... Look I like all the Milgram characters, but these three were never my favorites. I appreciated them, I enjoyed their existence and discussing them, but I'm ultimately more attached to other characters. So, in a sense, I kinda lucked out. Very sorry to those who can't say the same.
Where We Go From Here
Now, before talking about where I think we may go from here, I'm going to talk a bit about the verdicts that led to this. But since this is a contentious topic, I'll establish a few things that I'm sure you're all aware about, but bear repeating just in case.
-I don't believe there are any "right" or "wrong" verdicts, just those which I agree or disagree with. The decisions are difficult and multi-faceted, and usually had to be made with limited information. We're all trying our best here, so even if you disagree with someone else' perspective, it's important to remain respectful of it. If at any point in this post I come off as insulting to anyone else's choices, I apologize, it's not my intention.
-Hindsight is 20/20, but that means it's a distorted perspective. No one was completely certain of many things throughout the voting process. Even if things turned out exactly how you thought they would, or nothing happened like you hoped it might, keep in mind that no one could be 100% sure of some things before the release of Your (Curtain) Call. Basically, going "I told you so" doesn't help anyone.
-At the end of the day, these are fictional characters. It's perfectly fine to be emotionally invested in them, and feel strongly about their fates, but perspective is important. No one actually died, no one's hurt. You can regret your choices or be upset at the verdicts, but keep in mind it's ultimately just a web series.
With that established, the voting. Now, the arguments about Forgiven or Unforgiven have already been had and I have little interest in repeating discussions from the past. But I've never talked much about some of these verdicts here, and I know some of you may be interested in knowing my perspective on them and how I feel about them. Again, the following is simply my opinion, no better than yours, we're gonna disagree on some things and that's fine.
Haruka, Shidou and Mahiru will never get to react to their T2 verdicts in earnest. The verdicts to discuss, then, are Muu's and Amane's from T2, and Mahiru's and Kotoko's from T1. Obviously there's other verdicts involved here, but those are the most pressing ones in my eyes.
-I don't agree with the Unforgiven Muu verdict, and I held that opinion for a long time before Your (Curtain) Call released. I fully understand why it happened, I'm not upset it happened, and I don't hold it against anyone who voted her Unforgiven, but I respectfully disagree with the decision.
Of course, it's easy to say I would have Forgiven her when we now know for sure it would have avoided a death, but an Unforgiven vote was always way more dangerous than a Forgiven vote. Sure, Haruka, could have survived the attempt, but the best way to guarantee his safety would have been Forgiving Muu. That's why I held this opinion before the release of Your (Curtain) Call, even if I don't think I ever mentioned it.
Mind you, a Forgiven vote came with its own risks. It would have enforced a very dangerous mindset on Muu's part, and bending to the suicide threat would have enabled Haruka's self-destructive and manipulative tendencies. He probably would have made the same threat in T3 if we'd let him have his way. This is one of many reasons why I understand the verdict.
But those are things that can be dealt with once everyone's out of the hell prison; death isn't. And while it's true that an Unforgiven vote is the only way we have to get across to Muu that she did a bad thing, that doesn't mean we have to take it. Especially since mentally torturing a teenager to get a point across is... morally dubious, on its face. There's no shame in admitting we lack the tools to properly help someone and stepping back to focus on damage control, as helping without the proper tools can do more harm than good.
Again, though, that's my perspective, one which comes from someone who can only talk about the vote in hindsight as I wasn't around when the voting was actually happening. So, it should be taken with a lot of salt. I sincerely hope those who didn't Forgive her get what they wanted out of the verdict and that Muu will become a better person because of it in some way, even if I have my doubts about it. What's done is done, we should just hope for the best now.
-The Amane vote was a lot harder, because neither option came with a guarantee of safety, and neither option came with a guarantee of death. The setup was always there for a Forgiven Amane to kill Shidou (which is what I assume happened), but there was also setup for someone like Kazui saving him. It was entirely possible that Shidou could have survived with injuries, and just because it didn't happen, we shouldn't forget that it seemed like a real possibility at the time.
That isn't to say I blame Kazui or even Shidou or anyone else for what happened. Trusting a child isn't a crime, and people shouldn't have to be babysitting Shidou the whole time. The fault is entirely on the people who raised Amane, the audience who allowed her freedom of movement, and Amane herself.
In the same vein, an Unforgiven vote could have carried no inter-prisoner fatalities, but it would have been Amane's second Unforgiven, meaning there was a real possibility she'd die. We don't know how that works, after all. I don't even find it particularly likely, but it's a real concern that I took into account.
Basically, unlike Muu's vote where one option was clearly safer than the other (in my eyes), Amane's vote was a gamble either way, and we had no way to genuinely tell what the odds of Shidou's death (and Mahiru's, as we believed back then that they were linked) on a Forgiven vote were compared to the odds of an Amane death on Unforgiven.
Which is why I don't regret voting Amane Forgiven. We can speculate on what we'd do with the information we have now and the information we may get later, but with the information we had at the time, I find it a perfectly reasonable decision. If the information we'd had was different, and you could guarantee that no one would die to an Unforgiven vote and that Shidou would absolutely die on a Forgiven, I might have ended up voting Amane Unforgiven. It would have hurt me a lot and I'd feel gross doing it, but I stand by the principle that preserving human life is always the priority.
However, such a guarantee didn't exist. So I had to weigh the possibility of life and death against the other aspects of the vote. And to put it bluntly, I've never personally found any Unforgiven argument unrelated to Shidou's safety to be particularly convincing. We've seen what an Unforgiven vote does for Amane, and it's not good. I sincerely doubt that doing the same thing again would carry different results.
Also, there's another reason I found voting Amane Forgiven when Shidou could die easier to justify than Not Forgiving Muu when that could get Haruka killed: it's just easier to sell me on a Forgiven vote than an Unforgiven vote. That's a personal bias I'm aware of, but not one I particularly mind having and acting upon. Hot take, mentally torturing teenagers is Bad actually, and should be avoided whenever possible.
-I didn't talk about Mahiru much in the previous section, because I'm pretty sure she was dead from T1.
[2024/12/15 Timeline]
Mahiru: I also have to, say my thanks, to Shidou-san.
Kotoko: I can’t even laugh at how carefree you are, going out of your way to call me over.
Well...... if you have any grudges in your last moments, I guess I’d consider listening.
In this recent timeline,, Mahiru talks about Shidou as if he's still alive, but Kotoko seems pretty convinced Mahiru's not going to last much longer. This seems to imply, at least to me, that Shidou wouldn't have been able to keep Mahiru alive for T3 even if he hadn't gotten stabbed by the child. She was likely just kept alive to explore her character further before killing her off.
Now, I don't hold any votes cast against anyone in general, but I especially don't hold anything against the votes from T1. From my understanding, that was the wild wild west when it came to voting, as there was no precedent for what the votes would actually do. I don't even know what I would have voted Mahiru, since by the time I joined the fandom, the consequences of the voting had already been made relatively clear. I have no basis for what I would have taken into account when it came to casting votes in T1.
That said, I would have voted Kotoko Forgiven, probably. I tend to trust fictional characters more than I probably should, and the partnership she offered in TASK sounded quite appealing when we had no precedent for inter-prisoner violence beyond John Doe. HARROW made it look (at least to me) that Kotoko did a lot of research before attacking her victims, so I'd have given her the benefit of the doubt and thought she wouldn't attack the others until she learnt more about their crimes. Without Deep Cover, there wasn't any reason to believe she had that info at the time. Clearly, I'd have enabled the bullshit that happened in the T1-T2 intermission. Oops.
Okay that's way too much yapping about things that no longer matter. The votes are cast, the decisions are made, we move. What's next?
Well, that would be discussing how these deaths affect our choices moving forward. I don't feel like speculating on how characters are going to act in T3 when it's likely we're gonna get more info on that soon anyways (I can't believe it!!!), but what are my plans for voting?
Well, you can probably guess, but I'm hoping for an inno sweep. Unless we get confirmation on what our votes are gonna do before casting them, the possibility that a T3 Unforgiven will kill the character is too dangerous for me to consider that, unless there's some reason to believe a Forgiven vote would also carry risk of death. I think I've made it clear that I don't usually find the mental torture that an Unforgiven vote carries to be particularly helpful, so unless the consequences of the vote change, full Forgiven is probably the best we can hope for. I really doubt it's going to be so simple, of course, but I can't comment further without more info on the trial. I'm very excited to see how they try to avoid the full Forgiven sweep over at MILGRAM HQ (?).
And I'll actually get to vote for all of them this time! Well, the ones who are alive, anyways. Yippie!!!
On a completely unrelated note; really love the title of the video. The play on "your call" (your decision) and "your curtain call" (the end) is fun.
I wonder what other routes would have been called, though. Because obviously you can't have a name for every possible combination of T1 and T2 verdicts, so you need general names like Your (Curtain) Call for most of them. I kinda wanna know what decisions could have led to a different route name. If I feel like it, I might make a post with some other route ideas for the fun of it. But I have like a bajillion posts I want to write on my main still, so. God knows when that would come out.
Alright I've evidently run out of meaningful things to say. Hope you enjoyed this massive rambling session, that you don't hate me if you disagree with my opinions, all that stuff. In any case, thanks for reading, see ya'!
hey i was just reading your kayano murder theory post which was brilliant btw i havent finished it yet but id like to point out that in the anniversary artwork im like 90% sure mikoto is holding his phone. see the way the light seems to come from that hand and hit his face? it looks like he may have been making a phone call
Oh, thanks for the compliments! Let me check the image real quick.
I could see it! It’s a bit of a strange way to hold a phone, but it could be! I don’t think the screen is lit up, since the thumb would be brighter in that case, wouldn’t it? But regardless, it’s a solid possibility. Good observation, thanks for sharing!
Welcome back!!! It’s nice to see a post from you again :)
Something I’m very curious about: in your latest theory, you said “While I don’t think regret is necessary for forgiveness (I’m the “Local Amane Momose Apologist” for a reason), it is important for forgiveness that I can believe they won’t continue to do the same bad thing in the future, which is not the case with Kotoko.”
Do you believe that Amane wouldn’t kill someone again if released? If so, why?
Hey there! Nice to see you as well, I missed you all :D
So, first, I want to say that the way I worded that was… not the greatest. I made it sound like there’s some sort of hard rules I go by to judge whether someone is forgivable or not, which is… obviously impossible. Forgiveness is a very subjective, inherently biased, complex thing, and trying to set any kind of guidelines for how it works is never going to go well.
With that stated, I would like to rephrase my original wording a bit to try to avoid further confusion. The new phrasing is:
“One of the more important things I take into consideration when deciding whether I can forgive someone for a bad deed or not, is whether or not I can reasonably believe they would not perform the same bad deed again without significant external pressure. Or at the very least, that they will attempt to not do it again”
(I added “without significant external pressure” because everyone is capable of doing really bad stuff out of desperation, so if I didn’t I wouldn’t be able to forgive anyone ever lol.
You’ll notice, though, “significant external pressure” is extremely vague and subjective, which is by design. What counts as “significant external pressure” in my eyes varies greatly depending on the severity of the action, the person who committed it, among other things)
Now it makes a bit more sense to apply it to Amane, who was clearly under significant external pressure both when she killed her mother, as she was being downright tortured, and when she tried to kill Es in her second VD, as she was suffering from the psychological torment of a Guilty verdict.
But that’s not really what you asked, it’s just something I wanted to clarify. You asked if I believe that Amane wouldn’t kill again if released, and quite frankly, I think it’s unlikely (though not outright impossible). Barring extremes, of course. You could argue she would kill her father if he starts doing the same things her mother did, which, fair, but I’m sorta expecting Amane to get sent off somewhere else (and hopefully way better) if she returns from Milgram. She did murder her mother, I would imagine she’s not going to be allowed to live with her father after that (maybe? idk).
The main reason why is that Amane is only shown as openly hostile when she’s under pretty extreme psychological stress. She’s usually pretty patient, even with the people who annoy her:
[Timelines 13/6/20]
Shidou: If everything about MILGRAM is true… why did a child like you have to become a murderer? Just imagining what sort of circumstances must have led to that, it makes me so sad…
Amane: *sigh*. Is that right. I don’t think I’m going to get along with you, Shidou-san. […] Please give me back my test. It seems you don’t have the concentration levels required to be my teacher. I’m going to get Kotoko-san to teach me instead.
Not to mention her first VD, where Es constantly annoys her in one way or another and Amane doesn’t react negatively until the end, where Es forcefully grabs her. Basically, Amane is pretty good at keeping a level head when things aren’t going her way, especially for her age.
And even after the Guilty verdict, she’s only hostile towards those who’ve slighted her personally. Amane wouldn’t kill someone just for breaking doctrine.
Let me use Fuuta as an example. He’s someone who very explicitly went again Amane’s doctrine, having received medical attention and thus having “ran away from God’s trials.” He also enjoys frivolous things like social media, which Amane’s cult might consider “vulgar,” breaking Gozake’s ordainment. Not to mention he’s a murderer (though it’s unclear how much Amane knows about his situation), which obviously goes against Riyone’s ordainment.
And yet, despite him breaking doctrine so blatantly, Amane still wants to help him.
(T2) Q12: What do you think of Kajiyama Fuuta?
Amane: He is lost and in pain. I should help him.
Of course she does, she wants everyone to be happy. That’s one of her main motivations as a character, it’s why she covered Positive Parade (I made a post about that)
[Magic]
I hope, I hope everyone can be happy and smile
Yes, her methods are misguided and harmful, they can cause a lot of damage if left unchecked. But ultimately, pretty much everything she does, she does it because she thinks it will make people happy, either in this life or the next.
However, generally speaking, murdering someone is seen as somewhat counterproductive to their happiness. Which means Amane isn’t very keen on it, usually. Things have to go really wrong for her to really consider it, and even then she’d only consider it if someone offends her personally.
A Guilty verdict counts as “things going really wrong,” of course, and both Shidou and Es have offended her in different situations. But even when she’s subjected to constant psychological torture, she still has some patience. Not much patience, mind you, but it’s there.
[Timelines 24/10/22]
Amane: Kirisaki Shidou. How long do you plan on continuing this foolish behaviour?
Shidou: I wonder what you might be referring to there. I’m just doing what I need to do. If anything, I’d be happy if you would lend me a hand.
Amane: I warned you. I can no longer turn a blind eye to this wickedness taking place right in front of us. You’re bringing ruin unto yourself. Do you understand?
She warns Shidou instead of attacking him outright, which isn’t great… but it’s not murder! Yet.
A similar thing happens with Es. In Of Blessedness and Punishment, Amane begins relatively calm, and doesn’t get violent until Es denies the concept that they’re talking to anyone but Amane, which she (they?) see as an insult.
[Of Blessedness and Punishment]
Amane: But we are generous. For now, let us make some time for a conversation with you. After all, our history is one that is built on dialogue.
Keep in mind, this is with the T1 Guilty.
So let me put it this way. Everyone has a certain limit of “shit they can take” before they decide to murder someone. Everyone, no exceptions. We’ve seen Amane reach that limit in her home life (perfectly understandable imo) and in Milgram. The question is: were she to be released, would Amane face anything bad enough for her to reach her limit again?
Call me an optimist, but seeing how patient she usually is, I like to believe there’s a solid chance she doesn’t. I’m not sure what Amane’s future outside of Milgram holds (provided she’s not already dead or anything like that), but as long as it’s better than the Hell Prison Guilty Verdict, I’d say there’s a solid chance she doesn’t kill anyone again. Especially since she’s still very young and could potentially become better at regulating her more murderous tendencies with age. Better than she already is anyways.
(I don’t have any way of knowing whether or not that would happen, I just see it as a reasonable assumption)
Again, I do think it’s possible she would murder again if things get pretty bad, but there’s really no way to know how bad things have to get before that happens. After all, again, anyone would murder if things get bad enough.
That’s why ultimately (and quite ironically), a lot of it comes down to how much faith you have in Amane, how much faith you have that she will get through life without murdering again. We simply have no way of knowing for sure whether or not she will. But I like to assume the best in people, especially children for obvious reasons (yes I’m pulling the child card again you can’t stop me), so for now I’m assuming she won’t kill again.
I don’t know if that was perfectly coherent, but I hope that answers the question regardless! Take care!
Hi, it's good to see you back! I missed you and your theories.
I really liked the last one. Especially the Occam's razor. "Indirect" murderers are those who wouldn't be charged as murderers, and Kotoko technically wasn't charged as a murderer. How did I not catch that?
Hi! It’s good to see you as well, I missed you Tumblr peeps too!
I’m glad you enjoyed it! Yeah, that definition of “indirect” murder is not very intuitive, but I’m happy to hear you liked it!
Hello there, members of the jury! Deep Cover, huh? There's a decent bit to talk about in this MV, more than I really want to cover in just this post. So to put down my initial thoughts somewhere, I'm writing this! An update on my old theory from HARROW, my thoughts on Kotoko's relationship with the girl with the "Lucky" hat (which I'll just call Lucky for convenience), and my verdict for Trial 2!
CW Violent murder and blood, vigilantism, child kidnapping
Me trying to figure out what's going on in this video
Updated Murder Theory
What IS Kotoko's murder?
In the aftermath of the video, there have been a few different ideas about why exactly Kotoko ended up in Milgram, what her “Milgram murder” actually is. And while there are certainly many very interesting ideas going around, and I always love seeing different interpretations of what these videos show, I feel a lot of them are overcomplicating things.
This is Kotoko's killshot from Undercover. This is the most concrete confirmation we have of why Kotoko is in Milgram. Kotoko's murder involves her kicking someone to death. And given how much focus is put on her killing the white hoodie guy, both in HARROW and in Deep Cover, I feel the simplest explanation is that Kotoko's "Milgram murder" is the murder of the white hoodie guy.
That last point is important btw. The white hoodie guy death is the only one that actually is referenced in both HARROW and Deep Cover. Every MV to date has at least included an allusion to the murder, even if really abstract like Magic and Tear Drop. If Kotoko's "Milgram murder" involves Oshii, then Deep Cover is the only MV not to reference the murder. If her "Milgram murder" involves Lucky, the HARROW is the only MV not to reference the murder. This is inconsistent with all other MVs, which would be strange. You get what I'm saying?
Plus, let’s not forget what Kotoko says in TASK.
[TASK]
Kotoko: I did kill someone
Someone, singular. Unless there’s some ambiguity that’s lost on translation, Kotoko only killed one person, and her Milgram murder is kicking someone to death. She killed the white hoodie guy by kicking him, so he’s sorta the only option as to who her Milgram murder is.
And yes, Kotoko could have lied in her MV, but she has no reason to. She also says this:
[TASK]
Kotoko: After all, Es, you can access my heart, right? Through songs and videos..
Es: That is correct.
Kotoko: Then there's no problem. People who understand will automatically do so
So Kotoko believes the videos will reveal her murder, meaning she’d likely get caught in a lie once the extraction process began. Given she’s trying to team up with Es in TASK, being seen as a liar by them is counter-productive. In other words, Kotoko shouldn’t be lying here. Unless she somehow forgot another murder, she’s only killed the white hoodie guy.
The reason it's considered an "indirect" murder (if you don't know what that means, uh, don't worry about it) is that under Japanese law, it wasn't judged as actual murder, but rather legitimate defense, as revealed in Deep Cover. Now, I fully believe Kotoko did want to kill the guy and it wasn't entirely defense, but that's the ultimate ruling. Thus, I believe an "indirect" murder in Milgram's eyes is "an act which led to someone's death, but wouldn't be judged as murder in a court of law." Which is the definition I was always working with anyways lol.
All this to say, I don't think Lucky ever died, since as far as I can tell there is no solid evidence for it. It’s a nice theory, I like reading about it, I just don’t subscribe to it.
Now, I do want to be clear. There are still inconsistencies with this being the Milgram murder. The alley in Kotoko’s prisoner card is very strange, and while there are alternatives as to what those images could represent, they’re not very strong. Indeed, the card is very weird.
Additionally, her Trial 2 Voice Trailer distorted line doesn’t fit perfectly either. The lines in that trailer are generally understood to be from before the murder, but Kotoko’s seems to be directed at Lucky, which would place it after the warehouse incident. It could be directed at a different character, but it would have to be someone we’ve never seen before.
That said, no current theory about Kotoko’s murder is perfect. At some point you have to accept some inconsistencies somewhere, and I feel like the white hoodie guy murder being the Milgram murder is the least inconsistent of the answers. Occam’s razor; the simplest explanation, the one which makes the least assumptions, is usually the most accurate.
The Article and New Details
In Deep Cover, Kotoko is seen reading an article about her murder.
I'll leave two translations: Translation 1 and Translation 2. I recommend reading both for a full picture of what the text seems to say.
Now, this article gives us a few more details than we had in HARROW. First, white hoodie guy's name is Kaneshiro Tsugumichi (or Michi for short) and his father's name is Kaneshiro Isamu. Second, we also learn that Kotoko actually faced trial for her murder, but as she vaguely implied in TASK, the case was ruled as "justifiable defense", despite later investigations going against that idea. And of course they did, Kotoko tracked this guy down and went in fully intending to kill him. The ruling is at best a technicality and at worst a complete mistake. Still enough to qualify as "indirect" murder in my eyes though.
Kotoko's testimony of justifiable defense was corroborated by Lucky, although Lucky later retracted her statement. We'll get there.
Finally, the article ends by revealing that the case had become a bit of an internet meme. People claimed there were "multiple murderers" (referring to Michi and Kotoko) and that Kotoko was a hero. Or, rather, a "female university student." Given the wording in the article, I believe it's possible Kotoko's identity was never revealed to the public, as there would be no point in hiding her name if that weren't the case. I don't know enough about Japanese law to know if this makes sense or not, but I feel it's at least a possibility.
The article doesn't add much to what we already knew, but it's nice to get some extra details.
The Shots for the Updated Theory
Given how little this murder is actually referenced in the MV, you'd think there isn't much we can learn here, but there are two moments that I feel can help build on my previous (pretty outdated) theory.
What do we learn from these shots? Well, the main thing is that Lucky was actually in the room when the murder happened. Because while it's true the lighting and Lucky's position are slightly inconsistent, the water in the dark floor combined with Kotoko's kneeling position heavily implies these two shots happen one after the other.
More importantly, though, we actually see the restraints she had in the room she was being kept in in the floor.
This would imply she didn't go there on her own, and wasn't moved by Kotoko, who would have naturally removed the restraints before moving her. That means Michi moved her from the small room to the death room. And this fixes one of the biggest issues with HARROW's depiction of the murder: the switching rooms.
(Yes the shot in Deep Cover is flipped. No I don't know why)
As you can see, the walls are slightly different. And of course, they're way more open than the room the girl was being kept in. My original explanation for why this happens was more complicated than necessary, but now we have a bit more context.
First, the difference in the warehouse walls can just be explained by assuming these are two different sections of the warehouse, or even two warehouses which are connected somehow. This is somewhat consistent with the outside appearance of the warehouse:
You see how there's two buildings that share a wall? If that wall has a door, it would be possible to go from one to the other. And if they have different walls for some reason, it's possible the wall change simply happens because they enter one and end up in the other.
And why did they move? Well, because of the discarded restraints in Deep Cover, we can assume that perhaps Michi attempted to escape from Kotoko with Lucky in tow. He could have stunned Kotoko somehow (hammer maybe?), and ran away to the death room. Here's a diagram!
Pretty simple, right?
The Time Skip Confirmation
This is also a continuation of my previous theory. If you're not aware, Kotoko sees Michi kidnapping Lucky while she's wearing her blue and yellow hoodie, but attacks with her red hoodie.
I believed this, among other things, implied there was actually a period of time between when Kotoko spots the kidnapping and when she actually steps in. And the shot of Lucky on the floor corroborates this, as she's already bruised as if she had spent a decent amount of time under Michi's grasp.
As to why Kotoko didn't step in immediately, while I originally believed she was disheartened in some way, I now think it may have more to do with trying to hide her identity as she did when she attacked Oshii. Men's sneakers, red hoodie, etc. Except this time there was a witness, and since she apparently forgot her face covering at home, she couldn’t avoid being recognized and had to go to court. Perhaps that's why she seems so distressed when Lucky hugs her? She didn't want the attention, she didn't want to be recognized, because it would mean having to deal with the law.
Anyways, what does this mean? Well, not much, really. But it’s important because it means Kotoko wasn’t prepared to see a kidnapping that day, which in my eyes throws out some theories I’ve seen around about her possibly setting up Lucky as bait for Michi. If she had done that, surely she would have already been wearing the correct outfit, wouldn’t she?
And speaking of Lucky…
On Kotoko and Lucky's Relationship
This has almost become the main point of discussion around the MV, so I feel compelled to talk about it. Here’s what we know:
-Lucky originally testified to corroborate Kotoko’s testimony in court, but later, apparently while speaking to Isamu, retracted it. We don’t know what, if anything, Kotoko told her after the murder, but we can assume Kotoko lied to her the same way she lied to everyone else; “killing Michi was the only way to stop him, it was legitimate defense.” We also don’t know why she retracted her statement, but I’ll get to it in a moment.
By the way, Isamu claims Lucky may have been threatened, but I just don’t believe him. Lucky doesn’t seem scared of Kotoko until the very end (after the retraction), and Isamu has been involved in cover-ups of his son’s crimes before, as implied in HARROW. It’s in his best interest to defend his family name if he can cast doubt on Lucky’s testimony (more on this later).
-After the retraction of the statement, Kotoko is sitting on a park bench reading an article about it when Lucky comes up to her to show her the matching hat. Kotoko distractedly pats her head, but mostly ignores her in favor of the article. We don’t know if this meeting was arranged, or if Lucky just stumbled into Kotoko randomly and wanted to show off her cool hat. I’m leaning on the latter, personally. We also don’t know if they interacted further, or if Lucky just left immediately after. There’s no way to tell.
-After the park scene (note that Lucky already has the hat on her head, unlike when she first shows it off), Lucky waits outside a book store, mimicking Kotoko’s wall lean from HARROW. Lucky sees Kotoko and walks up to her, but becomes horrified when she sees the look in Kotoko’s eyes. Kotoko is wearing her murder outfit, and looks very angry. She ignores Lucky for the most part, only giving her a spare glance as she walks past. This means the meeting was not arranged, as Kotoko clearly wasn’t in the mood for it.
We don’t know why Lucky was waiting in front of the book store (was she waiting for Kotoko? did she know where Kotoko would be? Or was she waiting for something/someone else and just happened to recognize Kotoko walking by?). We don’t know if they met in more occasions, or if we’re shown the full extent of their interactions after meeting in court (did Lucky start mimicking Kotoko after hanging out a lot? or did she pick up the habit almost instantly, having seen Kotoko do the wall lean after the murder/during court procedure?).
I repeat that we don’t know much because, well, that’s the main problem here. We just don’t know, and we can’t know based just on the events of Deep Cover what their deal is. The only info we definitely have is:
-Lucky likes Kotoko, even after retracting her statement, though she’s scared of her meaner side.
-Kotoko appears dismissive of Lucky, at least from what we saw.
And that’s it! The only way we can further try to infer what their relationship is like is by looking at Kotoko’s character and speculating on what she would act like around this child. Thankfully, Kotoko’s actions are very straightforwardly informed by her overly simplistic worldview.
According to Kotoko, there are essentially three types of people. The Evil People who oppress and hurt those weaker than them:
(T1) Q20: What do you think is evil?
K: Oppressing innocent weaklings.
The Hero who will protect the Weaklings by destroying the Evil People:
[Deep Cover]
Come on, rely on me, go on
I became your fangs
As the long-awaited hero I engraved the answer
Tell me why you tell me, “Stop”
Don’t you dare stop now
I want a reason for judgment execution, I want it
Give me the next target
(I hate mobile formatting I hate mobile formatting I hate-)
And the Weaklings, who need to stay out of the way.
[Trial 2 Voice Trailer]
Kotoko: From the beginning I've never asked for your understanding! My actions, one by one, are bringing earth closer to peace. Useless weaklings should just shut up and let me protect them!
Weaklings shouldn’t meddle with the actions of the Hero, because the Hero knows best. If a decision or course of action is too difficult for a Weakling, they have to sit back and let the Hero choose for them.
[YONAH]
Kotoko: Weak... You're too weak. With that fragile body of yours, you can't stop anyone. You can't protect anyone. You can't even do your justice. All imperfect.
[…]
K: You're unable to do it yourself, that's why you need me. The fangs to do your will.
This fits with Kotoko, the Hero, being so dismissive towards Lucky, a Weakling. She probably wouldn’t want someone like Lucky to mimick her, because Lucky is Weak and should just rely on Kotoko for protection. It’s what gives Kotoko’s life meaning, after all.
[Deep Cover]
I want a reason for judgment execution, I want it
Give me the next target
This is what makes me believe that Kotoko and Lucky may have never really hung out outside of what we’re shown in Deep Cover. Because simply put, there’s no reason for Kotoko to be hanging out with her after the court case. Even back then, the only thing Kotoko had to tell her was that her murder was legitimate defense, which again is just what she was telling everyone else. Kotoko most likely had no reason to believe Lucky would retract her statement, and she doesn’t seem interested in hanging out with her for any other reason.
To be clear, I do think Kotoko cares about Lucky to some extent. She did show up in the magic subconscious video, after all. Kotoko is most likely glad to see Lucky happy, at least. I’m just saying that I don’t think their relationship really extended beyond “it’s nice to bump into each other in the street occasionally.” Of course, that’s only my interpretation, it’s perfectly fine if you interpret it in some other way.
Temporary CW Grooming
No, I don’t think Kotoko groomed Lucky. Unless you count lying to her about how legitimate the defense was, which again is more of a lie Kotoko told everyone than anything Lucky specific. I can definitely see the angle, the few scenes we have are pretty damn sketchy if you look at them a certain way, but I don’t think we have to assume the worst. Again, there is no reason for Kotoko to even groom her in the first place. She wouldn’t want Lucky to follow in her footsteps; she has no reason to be worried about the testimony, at least up until the retraction; and there’s not many other reasons she would have to do it. And Kotoko is decently pragmatic, she doesn’t usually bother doing things she doesn’t need.
To be clear, I absolutely believe Kotoko would have groomed Lucky, if it had been convenient for her. She does it to Es in YONAH, the lines I already used.
[YONAH]
Kotoko: Weak... You're too weak. With that fragile body of yours, you can't stop anyone. You can't protect anyone. You can't even do your justice. All imperfect.
[…]
K: You're unable to do it yourself, that's why you need me. The fangs to do your will.
That’s grooming. That’s what’s happening there. I’m not trying to defend this or even Kotoko, she absolutely is a groomer and this is Very Horrible. This deserves discussion, but it’s not what this post is about.
However, in YONAH, Kotoko has a reason to be doing it. She needs Es to hand out the Guilty judgements she wants. That doesn’t make it better, it just makes it in line with her character. She has no reason to manipulate Lucky, and again, she’s always shown to be dismissive of her.
Again, I do see where the concern comes from, and I wouldn’t be 100% surprised if it turned out to be true. I just don’t like to jump to conclusions on this sort of thing on principle, not when we have so little context for what we’re seeing, and especially not when it’s somewhat contradictory to Kotoko’s character and the central themes of her story.
Temporary CW Over
The Withdrawal of the Statement
This is one of the weirdest details of the MV, so I feel I should address it before signing off. Here’s what we know:
-Lucky testified in court that she was saved by “a female university student” according to the article (read: saved by Kotoko), and corroborated Kotoko’s testimony. Which was likely: she was being kidnapped (true), Kotoko caught the kidnapper red-handed (basically true, Lucky was tied up and on the floor with Michi beside her), Kotoko and Michi got into a fight over it (true), and Kotoko had to kill Michi to stop him (debatable, but Lucky likely believed it true).
-After the trial, Kaneshiro Isamu, the CEO of a big newspaper company, launches a private investigation that concludes Kotoko used excessive force.
-After that, it’s mentioned Isamu claims that Lucky retracted her statement.
-Isamu also claims some other stuff, trying to muddy up whether or not his son really was a kidnapper or not, but being The Guy That Covered Up a Bunch of Child Murders, I’m not inclined to believe him.
When I lay it all out like this, it seems like there’s a pretty simple explanation for what happened here. There is only one part of Lucky’s statement that could have needed retracting, the “legitimate defense” part, and that’s exactly what Isamu’s investigation contradicted. Given it’s Isamu, a newspaper company CEO of all things, the one who reveals the withdrawal, it’s assumed Lucky retracted it in his presence or in the presence of someone working for him. Meaning they could have told Lucky there was evidence of excessive force.
With that in mind, I believe it’s possible Lucky was told Kotoko may have used excessive force, and decided just in case to go back on the whole “legitimate defense” thing. Which of course Isamu spins into “she retracted the entire statement” because that’s what’s most convenient for him, who is likely trying to protect the family name from accusations of kidnapping.
I feel this is the most straightforward answer as to what could have happened. It’s consistent with Lucky still wanting to hang out with Kotoko and getting matching hats, it fits with her being scared of Kotoko later as she fully realizes Isamu and his people may have had a point, it fits Isamu’s known behavior, and it fits the context of the article.
It could even vaguely fit Lucky’s design choices. You know how her outfit looks like a prisoner’s outfit? Well, she sure is trapped in a weird situation between the kidnapping, Kotoko lying, Isamu trying to get her to retract the statement… I don’t know if this makes sense or not but I’m saying it anyways!
Is it the only possibility? Hell no. We have way too little context about the withdrawal to say anything definitive, so I’m perfectly open to hearing different reasons for why it could have happened. At the moment, though, I believe this to be one of the more solid possibilities.
This idea could also indicate who Kotoko wants to kill at the end, given she is wearing her murder outfit and all. She could take this as Isamu and his people manipulating a “weakling”, and we know she doesn’t take kindly to that kind of thing. That’s complete speculation, though, so don’t take it very seriously. I still think she only killed one person anyways, because of the whole “killed someone (singular)” thing.
Verdict
With all of it laid out, what am I voting her this Trial?
To what I imagine is no one’s surprise, Guilty.
I know this post has been kinder to her than a lot of other posts going around, but that doesn’t mean I’m ignoring the awful things Kotoko has done, and would continue to do if Forgiven this Trial. Already, she is stuck in a cycle of violence where the only way she can find fulfillment is by attacking those she considers worthy of punishment, a problem she’s had since Trial 1. While I don’t think regret is necessary for forgiveness (I’m the “Local Amane Momose Apologist” for a reason), it is important for forgiveness that I can believe they won’t continue to do the same bad thing in the future, which is not the case with Kotoko. At least from what we know, it seems she would absolutely kill someone else if fully Forgiven.
And that’s without the very obvious meta aspect. There are quite a few prisoners who could be in real danger if she’s Forgiven. The most obvious ones being Muu and Haruka (even if Haruka does have other stuff to worry about too), but Amane and Mikoto could also be targets because Kotoko didn’t manage to get to them in Trial 1. Oh, and Es. She would probably try manipulating them further if she sees them as an ally, which is what a Forgiven verdict would cause.
Mind you, an Unforgiven verdict isn’t perfect, either. She will certainly become antagonistic towards Es if she’s Unforgiven, so I doubt she’d actually listen to the verdict. She’ll likely close herself off and become isolated, which is the worst thing that can happen to someone with a mindset like hers.
Hell, it’s not even perfect for prison safety purposes. A restrained Kotoko is still probably stronger than a restrained Muu, a restrained Haruka and even an unrestrained Amane. Just, hopefully not strong enough to cause serious damage.
More pressingly, though, Kotoko herself is a massive target, given she’s antagonized basically the entire prison. Fuuta has a vendetta and a strong sense of justice, and while I’d hope he’s learnt the lesson that he shouldn’t take justice into his own hands, Amane’s religion (which is clearly starting to influence him) also places a lot of value on punishing those who go against destiny, so. Then there’s the fact Kotoko’s clearly shown herself as a threat to Mikoto, and while violence landed them into the Milgram mess in the first place, John might decide Kotoko’s dangerous enough to warrant becoming a “savior” again.
And God forbid she does get hurt and Shidou doesn’t have enough time or resources to treat all the injured people around. Because Mr “someone’s value cannot be the same as another” Kirisaki is not going to help Kotoko at anyone else’s expense.
But ultimately, we have to pick the lesser of two evils. From a meta sense, I’m more worried about what Kotoko could do to Muu/Amane than what Fuuta/John/whoever else could do to Kotoko. More importantly, from a mindset sense, I’m more worried about enabling and encouraging her current behavior (which at this point would be practically irreversible, given there’s only one Trial left) than antagonizing her and causing her to isolate. Both are bad, but one of them has a chance of getting the personification of the death penalty (death penalty without trial, no less) to change her ways.
See, what I’m hoping is that (depending of what happens from this point on) we can try to make amends and Forgive on Trial 3, with the hope she understands we believe she’s in the wrong, but that we won’t abandon her and she deserves a chance to better herself. That compassion could be enough for her to start working towards improvement… maybe.
I’m definitely being way too optimistic, but when we’re working with The Worst System in History, all that’s left is to try our best and hope things turn out alright, even when we lack good tools to try and make that happen.
I sincerely hope she can break the toxic mindset she’s stuck in and gets to a place where I can vote her Forgiven in Trial 3, but as of right now, a Trial 2 Forgiven is just not on the table for me. Sorry Kotoko, I do feel kinda bad for you still, Milgram’s punishment for the Unforgiven is awful :(
Conclusion
That’s it for now! I’ll maybe make some other posts discussing other stuff in this MV, since there’s surprisingly quite a bit in it, but for now I’ve said what I needed to say. Take care!
(03) David Chiem - First Trial (DRDT - Milgram AU)
IMPORTANT: This had to be reposted due to technical issues (it wasn't showing up on tags). There were two votes on the original before I privated it to avoid confusion. Please check you've voted if this disclaimer wasn't there when you first saw the post.
Another entry in this crossover AU! This time David, with his VD Nebula, and his MV Star in the Night! Wait. David… MV? David MV? Oh God no not again I don’t wanna go back no-! (/joke)
Thumbnail:
So for the content warnings, you know what, I’ll just make an universal list of all the content warnings I think the AU will need, hopefully I don’t miss anything. So, here are the universal CWs! Not all of them apply to David, but I do this to prevent sorta spoiling things in the CWs. In no particular order:
By the way, important note: when I originally made the Undercover post, I fucked up with his kill-shot. The victim was supposed to have one shoe off, and I forgot to mention it, oops. I’ve edited it, but just in case you hadn’t seen the edit, keep that in mind.
Voice Drama: Nebula
(Why is David so hard to write send help. Hope he's not too ooc)
*Footsteps*
Es: Hi!
David: Hello there! My name is David Chiem. A pleasure!
E: And I’m Es! Nice to meet you, David!
D: I hope you don’t mind me asking, but you are the Warden of Milgram, right?
E: That’s right! Why do you ask?
D: Well, I wanted to know if I could bring certain… issues, to your attention. After all, you are an authority figure here, from what I understand.
E: Oh! Of course! Is there something wrong? Are any of the other prisoners causing you trouble?
D: Oh, no! Nothing like that. It’s just, well. See, you’ve claimed every person here is a murderer, right?
E: That’s right, yeah.
D: Well, it seems there’s been a mistake. But don’t worry! I won’t hold it against you!
E: A mistake? What do you mean?
D: Well, how do I put this? I… have been wrongly imprisoned, you see. I’ve never… killed anyone.
E: Huh, really? You know, it’s funny. You’re not the first to say that.
D: Oh? Well, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were other innocent people here. But it’s fine! Mistakes can be corrected. It’s not difficult to change, if you’re willing to!
E: … Is that so? You know… you seem pretty calm about all this.
D: Hm, I guess you could say that. But it’s just who I am. See, I try to be as positive as I can, since I know there's a lot of people that don't get the privilege.
E: Really now? And you don’t think a situation like this merits being at least a little bit worried?
D: Ah, I guess so. I…am worried, deep down. But being negative can only make things worse, right? When it feels like everything else is against you, the least you can do is help yourself.
E: Hm…
D: A lot of the people here are extremely distressed, understandably so. And I have to think, well, these people might have bigger issues than me, yes? I live a pretty good life, I can look forward to returning to it whenever this all blows over. So it’s my responsibility to keep morale high!
E: Alright… And what does your life look like that you are seemingly so content with it?
D: Want to count my blessings, huh? Well, let’s see. Although I’m an only child, I have a good relationship with the rest of my family, and I have good connections with people outside of it as well. I consider myself talented, there are some things I’m quite good at! I am quite wealthy thanks to my work as a professional inspirational speaker, so I don’t have any financial concerns. In fact, one of the other murderers even recognized me!
E: Oh! What a coincidence!
D: Yeah, right? I was surprised too-
E: So why did you call them a murderer?
D: *Sputter* I’m sorry?
E: You said they were “one of the other murderers.” I thought you said you believed some of the others could have been wrongfully imprisoned? I would imagine someone as positive as you would only want to assume the very best, right?
D: *Sharp breath*
E: *Slightly smug* Not to mention, “other murderers?” I thought you hadn’t killed anyone, David.
D: Yes, that’s right! I’m- I’m sorry, it was a slip of the tongue.
E: Is that really it? You seem nervous about something.
D: *Nervous chuckle* Didn’t you tell me I should feel worried about my situation? But now you’re suddenly concerned with a bit of stress over false accusations. *Fake-sounding chuckle* You’re giving me contradictory information, Warden!
E: *Cheery* Well, at that point you hadn’t revealed you knew you were a murderer!
D: Huh? What do you mean, know I’m a murderer?
E: Well, sorry! But you are a murderer.
D: … Are you- Are you serious? I make one little mistake, just misspeak once, and you immediately assume the worst?
E: …
D: You know, things like this have happened before. People like to pretend I’ve said things I haven’t said, misinterpret actions and statements… That can hurt people, you know?
E: …
D: Just jumping to conclusions… all of you are the same. You hear only what you want to hear, and then decide I’m a murderer just because I misspoke-
E: No, that’s wrong.
D: …What?
E: I don’t think you’re a murderer just because of what you said. I just never believed you from the start. Again, sorry!
D: … Excuse me?
E: You are a prisoner in Milgram. That is all the proof I need to know your actions have led to someone’s death. Because of that, when you told me you weren’t a murderer, I knew there were only three options.
D: … Do enlighten me, please.
E: One option is that you are mistaken. Maybe you don’t consider what you did murder, when in the eyes of Milgram, it could be judged as such. The second is that you were lying to yourself, in an attempt to protect yourself from your actions.
D: …
E: The third is that you were lying to me.
D: …
E: That Freudian slip of yours was enough to tell me you do consider yourself a murderer. So you’re not mistaken, and you’re not lying to yourself. Therefore, you must have been lying to me!
D: … I see.
E: So you admit to it?
D: … Admit to it? Admit to what? Your reasoning only works if you assume this accursed prison can’t get things wrong, which is just delusional.
E: Perhaps you feel that way. Except, I know you don’t, since you consider the others murderers as well.
D: Will you just-?! *Deep breath*
E: Listen, David. I’m not mad at you. I understand your murder must have been traumatic-
D: I didn’t-
E: But lying and hiding it all isn’t going to help you here. I will find out the truth anyways, so being honest is probably your best bet!
D: Being- *Mix between a chuckle and a short wheeze* Do you even know what you’re asking me to do?
E: I don’t think I’m asking too much! Just tell me what you did and-
D: You really don’t understand anything, huh?
E: … Your eyes…
D: Oh? Are the stars gone? Yeah, they do that.
E: N-Nevermind that. What do you mean I don’t understand anything?
D: … Well. How do I put this? I can’t have you- You shouldn’t be allowed to know everything about my life, right? What gives you the right to invade my privacy? Nothing!
E: That’s unfortunate for you, then! I will find the truth, whether you like it or not.
D: … *sigh, his voice is filled with poison* You really are arrogant, huh?
E: … And you aren’t really as positive as you say, right?
D: …
E: David?
D: Ah! Apologies. It seems I was losing track of myself there. I apologize if I said something hurtful.
E: *Sputter* The stars-
D: In any case, if I may, I’ll once again state. Nothing I've ever done could be considered murder, and I wholeheartedly believe that.
E: But that's a lie.
D: Perhaps. But, you see... If you do find the truth…
E: …
D: Then you might as well just kill me on the spot!
*Machinery whirs*
E: Huh? Wait, what do you mean?
D: Oh, it seems the extraction process starts now, right? That’s unfortunate.
E: Wait, I still have questions! I just need more time!
D: Ha… well, we all want what we can’t have, I guess.
E: Huh?
D: Ah! Sorry, maybe that came off a bit depressing. In any case, I want to leave you with one last message, a quote from Shakespeare’s Othello.
E: What are you-
D: “To mourn a mischief that is past and gone is the next way to draw new mischief on.”
E: Huh?
D: "Holding grudges and focusing on the past will only lead to misfortune." It is better to focus on the future and-!
E: Are you serious?! Stop trying to convince me into not doing my job! It’s not going to work.
MonoTV: Well, it sorta is! Why are you taking so long? We’re on a schedule here.
(By the way, I reference Chinese tally marks quite a bit, so here they are for reference. Also to clarify they are used in other countries but I'm calling them that because their origin is Chinese (from what I understand I hope I'm not getting this too wrong), I don't know if there's a better term for them, sorry)
(I also call out real books by name, which I hope isn’t too immersion breaking, but I felt it was fitting considering who we’re dealing with lol. Now the song)
[The music sounds like a pretty standard “inspirational” pop song. Think Firework by Katy Perry]
[David speaks the first few lines]
Welcome ladies, gentlemen, and everyone else!
It’s the start of another wonderful day!
Let us make the most of it!
I hope you can trust me when I say,
It will all be alright
The video starts on a shot of an empty stage, the front row seats barely visible around it. In the center stands David, who looks small in comparison to the stage. Several spotlights shine on him, his arms out beside him. He’s wearing his canon outfit (pre-CH2 EP11), as well as a white domino mask with golden highlights (the one from the thumbnail) over his eyes. He also wears a pin on his right, which looks like a pink camellia. A red dot is visible on the top left of the screen, alongside the word REC.
The camera slowly zooms in, and David puts his left hand over his chest as he continues talking. He smiles wide and bright as the opener ends, and the camera glitches.
[Now he starts singing. I’m still basing this off Firework tbh]
Waking up again,
Watching the sun rise, (I)
Another brand new start,
Another breath of air! (II)
(I) We get a shot of David sitting up on a bed with a deep blue blanket decorated with stars. The walls are grey, but there’s a window with purple curtains in the background, which lets in sunlight. His head is off frame, but he’s reaching up towards it with his left hand. There’s a nightstand off to the left. On it we see a simple lamp, a photograph frame (the photograph is obscured), and a phone with a blue case. There’s a grey circle visible in the top left of the screen.
(II) We zoom in on the phone, the grey circle at the top right still visible. The phone screen lights up with a message.
Edward W.
Good morning. Remember we signed an agreement for an advertisement with…
After that message arrives, David’s hand appears on screen and grabs the phone.
Burning ever bright,
the passion for your life. (I)
Don’t ever put it down,
And hope will never drown! (II)
(I) We’re back at the stage, the same scene as before, but now we’re looking at David’s back. The seats for the audience are visible, and on them sit a bunch of grey figures with no discernible features. The circle at the top left is red again, and once more the REC word appears next to it.
(II) Grey circle again, as we switch to a scene with a pure white background. A hand with the following bracelet appears from the top right, holding the white domino mask.
(Please pretend that's not the shittiest image ever made)
Another, smaller hand appears from the bottom left, grabbing the mask and taking it off screen.
[Pre-chorus, the instrumental builds]
See a quasar that now spins
Emitting hope, emitting dreams! (I)
The center, truly irrelevant
When the light is all we see! So- (II)
(I) Grey circle. Back to a front-facing shot of David, who is holding the mask with his right hand. The shot starts with the mask covering the screen, but David swiftly brings the mask closer to him. His eyes lack stars. His expression is neutral-to-dead inside, and he looks down at the mask for a few seconds.
(II) He takes a breath. Then, he brings his head down at the same time he brings the mask up, covering his face with his hand. He holds that position for a moment, and as the song says “light”, spotlights begin shining on him. At the same time, the circle turns red with REC again. When the “so” plays, David brings his hand up and we zoom in as he points to the sky.
[Chorus!]
Tally up the good things like dots in the sky! (I)
You’ll find there’s always hope if you’re willing to try! (II)
And even when you feel that you’re lost in the dark, (III)
Then I offer my advice, allow me in your heart
And then let me be your star in the night! (IV)
(I) Thumbnail image, except the tally symbols start off as yellow dots that look like stars before turning into the tally symbols we see in said image.
(II) David continues singing, but we get different angles to make the shots a bit more interesting.
(III) Front-facing shot of David again. His right hand is over his chest as he sings with a slightly less enthusiastic smile. The stars in his eyes fade out. When the song says “dark”, there’s a quick flash to another scene. The background is now black instead of blue, and while David is standing in the same position, his appearance is a bit different. Hair clips off, messy hair, tie undone, black circles around his pupils. He’s wearing a black and blue domino mask, similar to the other one he was wearing before. The pink camellia pin has disappeared, but now he’s wearing a black rose pin on his left. He looks vaguely frustrated. The circle is grey.
(IV) After only a moment, we’re back to the previous scene, and David continues singing as the camera slowly zooms out. Just as the chorus ends, the camera glitches a bit. We see this for a moment:
(Okay so there was an image here, but it gets the post shadowbanned for unknowable reasons. I'll just put the image description here:
"David stands neutrally, with his white mask outfit. He's in front of a green screen on a grey wall. It looks as if he's being recorded by a camera which shows things such as the time of recording, the camera battery, the pixel size, etcetera. Red REC circle on the top left.")
Then, the camera suddenly goes dark with a bright flash at the center, as if it had been turned off.
[More spoken words]
There will be times in your life, when you feel that (I)
you don’t have anything worth living for. (II)
This will always be false. (III)
Let me tell you some, uh, paraphrased quotes from books I like,
which help me maintain a positive attitude! (IV)
(I) We see David from a POV to his right. He’s sitting on a comfortable looking blue and yellow chair as he talks with a calm smile, wearing the white mask and pin with the red REC circle visible. He’s in a small room, with star decorations hanging from the ceiling. On the blue walls, there’s a poster of David (white mask and all) holding a book with a big smile on his face, alongside some unreadable text. The book has David's face on the cover.
(II) The screen glitches, and we’re now looking at David from the left. He’s still sitting on a similar chair, except it’s black and purple. He’s back to his bed-hair, black mask, dark circles around pupils, black rose pin costume. He’s smirking as he talks. The background is completely black, but the circle is still red with REC.
(III) Screen glitches again, and we’re back at the same scene from (I).
(IV) We’re now in a different room, with a wooden floor and blue walls decorated with stars. Red circle with REC. The back of David’s head covers most of the screen, a hand with the same bracelet as before on his shoulder. In the background, there are four blurry, white silhouettes of people.
[Back to singing]
One: (I)
Being harmed by cotton wool,
Happiness scares the weak (II)
(I) We see a grey background with a horizontal line glowing bright yellow in the middle. There is a small table in the foreground, which shows a book with a pink cover and a black silhouette on front. The side reads “No Longer Human.”
(II) Red REC circle. We see one of the white silhouettes, with long hair, holding up a daisy flower as David (white mask) gives a thumbs up with a wide smile. The background is completely blue.
Two: (I)
Our doubts, traitorous
Make us lose what we may win (II)
(I) Same grey background as before, but now the glowing symbol in the background is the Chinese tally mark for 2. “No Longer Human” is still there, but now there’s a book standing next to it. It’s orange and has a scale on the front, alongside the words “Measure for Measure.”
(II) Grey circle. The screen is split in two. On the left, David without his hairpins (post-reveal hair), but also without a mask, is staring blankly at his phone. The background has the grey walls and purple curtains from his bedroom. On the right, we see someone in a suit with a pin which looks exactly like David’s hairpins accepting money being handed to them by a white silhouette. The white silhouette has similar pins on their other hand. The background there is blue.
Three: (I)
Time and the hour,
Run through even rough things (II)
(I) Same scene with the books, but now the symbol is the Chinese tally mark for 3 and there’s a new addition. A book with a red cover with a skull and a crown, labeled “Macbeth.”
(II) We see a white silhouette with short hair slouched over on a desk, in a dark room. They’re looking at a computer screen showing David’s white-masked, smiling face. The circle isn’t visible in its usual spot, but it’s on the computer screen, red with REC. The desk the computer is on has discarded candy wrappings all around the keyboard, as well as a white mug with a yellow star drawn on it.
Four: (I)
Time soothes sorrows,
Be content you have known me. (II)
(I) Book shot. The symbol is now the Chinese tally mark for 4. Apart from the books which were already there, there’s now a white book off to the side, with a small, stylized drawing of a person with blond hair and green clothes standing on a grey sphere. We can barely see the words “The Little Prince.”
(II) Another white silhouette in a blue background, a book with David's face on the cover beside them. Red REC circle. The silhouette is on the floor, their hand outstretched towards (white-mask) David, who is leaning down over them and offering them a hand with a placid smile. It looks as if David is trying to help them stand up.
Five: (I)
There’s relief when you know,
You won’t carry burdens, see…
(I) The same scene as before, except all the books are gone. The symbol in the background is the Chinese tally mark for 5. On the table stands a book with a dark cover showing a big house, with the title “And Then There Were None.”
(II) We see David’s face (white mask, but hair undone), with a smile that doesn’t reach his (starless) eyes, as he accepts his usual hairpins being handed to him by a hand with the previously shown bracelet.
[Pre-chorus]
And there is so much, so much more (I)
So many reasons to carry on (II)
Even when the world’s against you
You just have to find your hope! (III)
So (IV)
(I) Back to the scene with the comfortable looking chair for a moment. Red REC circle again.
(II) Grey circle. We see David’s back (post-EP11 hair) as he looks out the window of his bedroom, which shows a pitch black sky, the purple curtains framing the shot.
(III) David walks off frame, but his reflection remains still on the window. It’s David with the black mask outfit, smirking.
(IV) Screen glitches, and the window disappears, but David (black mask) is still there, on a black background. The circle turns red with REC, and spotlights begin shining on him.
Tally up the good things like dots in the sky! (I)
You’ll find there’s always hope if you’re willing to try! (II)
And even when you feel that you’re lost in the dark, (III)
Then I offer my advice, allow me in your heart (IV)
And then let me be your star in the night! (V)
(I) David (still black mask, black rose pin, black circles around pupils, no hairpins and post-CH11 hair) points up, the camera zooms in on his hand. It quickly goes back to showing his full upper body, he’s still smirking. The background remains completely black, but the circle is still red with REC.
(II) We zoom in a bit. David tilts his head and rolls his eyes behind his mask.
(III) We change to the back of David’s head. We see the four white silhouettes on the black background, looking as taken aback as silhouettes can look.
(IV) Screen glitches, we see a side shot of white mask David holding his hand out with a bright smile. Screen glitches again, now black mask David is standing in the same position.
(V) We see this:
[There’s a small guitar solo, as the music suddenly switches to a very fast-paced rock style instrumental. David can be heard laughing]
Still with his black mask outfit, David sits down on the same comfortable looking purple and black chair from before. He’s laughing.
[The next lines are sung very quickly]
One: (I)
I wonder, does it make me a villain… (II)
Two: (III)
If I choose to discard the ideal? (IV)
Three: (V)
Should I regret what is true now? (VI)
Four: (VII)
Is it my fault? Does it make me inhuman? (VIII)
Ah… hahaha! … (IX)
“Correct” (X)
(I) Back to the grey background with a table in the foreground. We again see a horizontal line glowing bright yellow in the background, but now there’s a withered daisy laying on top of the table.
(II) Screen is split, the circle is gone. To the left, David (black mask) has his mouth open in a smirk as he points to his head in a finger gun gesture. There is blood on his hand. To the right, we see the long haired white silhouette’s head laying on the ground with their head turned to the side, a splatter of a pink liquid under it.
(III) Grey background with Chinese tally mark for 2 glowing. The withered daisy is still there, but now there’s also a broken pin beside it which looks very similar to David’s.
(IV) Screen is split again. To the right, a side shot of David holding his now bloodied neck with both hands, again with a big smirk. To the left, another white silhouette laying on the ground, face down with their hands to their sides, and without any pink liquid visible.
(V) Chinese tally mark for three on the grey background. Alongside the withered daisy and the pin, we see the broken pieces of a white mug with a star drawn on it.
(VI) In the bottom left, a shot from David’s left, where he’s giving a thumbs down with a bloody hand, the blood still on his hands and neck. On the top right, another white silhouette laying on a pool of pink liquid on the ground, their limbs bent in unnatural positions.
(VII) Chinese tally mark for 4 in the grey background. Alongside the other objects, we see the book with David's face. It’s completely drenched in water, several pages ripped out and strewn around the table.
(VIII) To the right, a side shot of David pinching his nose, still smirking. On the left, another of the white silhouettes lays on the ground with their head tilted to the side, again without pink liquid.
(IX) We see David’s upper body as he stands up and cackles, throwing his arms out to the sides. As the laugh trails off, the screen glitches. David changes a bit. His hairstyle turns into his pre-Ch11 hairstyle, but he doesn’t have the hairpins. His eyes have neither stars nor dark circles around the pupils, though he does have eyebags. He’s not wearing a mask or a pin, and his tie is undone. He’s looking at the camera with a horrified expression. The grey circle returns. The screen fades to black as the laugh fully disappears and there’s silence for a moment.
(X) An image fades in from the black. It’s the same table from before, but lit more dimly. The grey background shows the Chinese tally symbol for five written in blood. The only thing in the table is the bracelet, stained with blood.
[Bridge, the instrumental slows down again]
Count up my mistakes, like stars in daylight.
You will find “me” again, if you’re willing to try.
And even when it feels it’s all lost to the dark (I)
Then I beg you, I beg you… (II)
(I) Screen fades in again, and we see David standing in the stage from chorus one. Grey circle, no spotlights. The shot is zoomed out, so David’s face is impossible to see, but his arms are to his side neutrally, and his head is tilted down. His hairpins and chest pins are missing, and his tie is undone. There is a stool next to him, the white mask laying on it.
As he stands still, words appear behind him, slowly rising from the ground and scrolling to the top of the screen.
CREDITS
Main cast:
Chiem D.
正
Williams E.
Producers:
Chiem D.
Williams E.
MILGRAM
Script-writing:
Williams E.
Chiem D.
Camera Operator:
Chiem D.
Original Idea:
Chiem D.
Special Thanks:
Background Characters:
As the credits scroll, David brings his hands to his chest and fumbles around a bit. When he moves them away, his tie is now done correctly and his pink camellia pin is back up. He then takes something out of his pocket, and brings his hands to his hair. After removing the hands, his hair pins are back up.
(II) Right as “Background Characters” appears on screen, we cut. Zoom in on the white mask on the stool, and David grabs it. Shot switches to David’s face, his eyes closed and mouth pressed in a thin line. He slaps the mask on his face, and quickly swipes his hand up. As he does, his mouth twists into a big smile, the circle turns red with REC, and the spotlights begin shining on him again.
Tally up the good things like dots in the sky!
You’ll find there’s always hope if you’re willing to try!
And even when you feel that you’re lost in the dark, (I)
Then I offer my advice, (II) allow me in your heart (III)
And then let me be your star in the night! (IV)
(I) The camera zooms out slightly to show David’s upper body, as he points up. The credits behind him now start scrolling backwards (top to bottom). He’s singing cheerily, but there are no stars in his eyes. Right as he says “lost in the dark”, the credits fully disappear from the screen.
(II) Cut to the ‘正’ symbol, written in blood, on a grey wall. Grey circle.
(III) David’s hands appear on frame, holding a mirror with a golden frame. He puts it over the ‘正’ symbol, covering it completely. In the reflection, we see white mask David frowning at the mirror with starless eyes.
(IV) Screen glitches, and we’re back to the same screen as before (white mask - no stars - spotlights - red REC circle - stage). David finishes singing, but he’s still breathing quickly.
[Instrumental begins to wind down]
The camera zooms out as David continues breathing heavily.
Let me be your star in the night!
The camera fades to static before suddenly cutting off.
Kotoko Birthday TL Translation (12/15/2023)
Haruka: "...Please, be quiet about this.
And you, please don't get involved.
All I can do is ask this of you..."
Kotoko: "Fufufu, fufufufufu.
You're thinking some outrageous things.
To be frank, it's abnormal.
But I don't dislike it.
If only all sinners were like you."
Haruka: "No... That's not it...
I don't mean it that way...
This isn't for me... it's to protect... so, Kotoko-san... please..."
Kotoko: "Eh? Yes, yes.
Well, I promise not to interfere with your plans.
Even though I'd like to do it myself, I'll leave it to you.
What happens after that... depends on Es, doesn't it?"
So, today Star and I are going to talk about Double. Yep, it’s another team up to tackle one of the most difficult characters in Milgram. Today we’ll be discussing the Japanese and English lyrics of Double provided by the staff. Along with some fun facts and observations we’ve made from them.
Preface
This will be going over the use of (MeMe) in the official French and English translations of Double along with the use of and etymology of the term “Newborn”. Due to the focus on these phrases since the release of Double and how the fandom has treated official translations in the past… Star and I believed it only fair to give the same scrutiny given to past translations to Double. It cannot only be a mistranslation when it’s inconvenient to how one personally views the character then absolutely correct and unquestionable when the translation (regardless of how many creative liberties it takes) supports what one personally wants to believe.
If anyone has problems with having these topics scrutinized fully and objectively then this is not the post for them. If anyone is interested in finding out more about linguistics both English and Japanese, MeMe and Double parallels, and a lot of things about Mikoto Kayano then this post might be for you. The way I word things has always been incredibly direct and that won’t be changing over the course of this post.
This post wouldn't be possible without the discussions and help I received from not only @apatchworkstar but @tsuwmya and @doctorbunny.
With all that out of the way- Are you ready?
Okay, well let’s jump into it!
This may have spelling errors and may be edited at a later date to add more context. Just like Mikoto's song lol~
Hi, this is Star here- Starting off this post! Gunsli and I were discussing some of the information floating around about Mikoto- them with more people than me. I was mostly bitching discussing how I found it interesting that people were taking a step away from their habit of brutally eviscerating the official translations of songs to hyper focus on the wording of Double.
Now, Gunsli and myself have been very open about how we both believe the original lyrics and the translations both help add necessary context to all of the songs and that neither is less than the other. However, it is a bit… Irksome for people to just pick and choose what they consider a valid conversion of information. Especially since translating is already something that can be hard to carry nuance over. It also hasn’t escaped my notice what the official English translation is being used to support. Which is also aggravating, with everything else into consideration.
So, I took out my copy of Double and did what fans have been doing for most of trial two- looking at the Japanese lyrics within the cd pamphlet and comparing them to the translation. And boy was that interesting!
Don’t worry~
Mikoto is an honest man, guys~ Come on, would a guy with such tiredness in his eyes lie to us~?
…So, his song's translation has to be the pinnacle of accuracy; all with little to no artistic liberties taken, right? Well- no.
Literally, there wouldn’t be any point of making this as a post if it was.
(Gunsli: Don’t mind the underlined parts in the english lyrics for now. That comes in later.)
Firstly,
“I’m Double (MeMe)”
“Double” is the only line actually said in this statement. “(MeMe)” is never said within the lyrics of Double. However, given that it is in parentheses (something that is meant to add additional context to a statement), “(MeMe)” technically does not have to be said within the song in order to be put into the lyrics in this way. This isn’t a case of the english lyrics being inaccurate per se, but a case of the staff using english language and grammar in order to add context to what is being said. Something that’s not only done with the English translation, but the French one too.
So this is additional context; a rare treat for fans in the west! Now, when Gunsli and I were discussing Mikoto’s second trial CD cover-
Gunsli speculated that they added in (MeMe) to hammer in that there were, in fact, only two of them. Especially given how prevalent trikoto was/is as a theory. However, neither of us thought the staff would go so far as to just present this as something that had been said when it never was just to drive in the point further.
In every other instance during trial two when the prisoners have referenced their previous trial songs, it’s been verbally- i.e. within the lyrics themselves. Anyone can hear it, and the lines are noted in their cd pamphlets + the inside of the cd case, even if they aren’t translated as literally the lines that are said to be there are there.
Mikoto is the only one who’s official translated lyrics reference his first trial song without him verbally referencing it.
Making this a literal instance of, “He did not fucking say that.” Musical edition~
I guess you could say that Mikoto is the creme de la creme- or, to phrase it better an outlier even among other outliers. Which I find amusing as hell, considering how Mikoto is being treated in Milgram currently. Because, despite the fact that he does not verbally reference his previous song in any way throughout his trial two song, the staff still chose to frame it as though Mikoto had within these translations and visuals. Like how are you gonna call yourself an honest man, then be a bigger liar than Kazui Mukuhara! At least the text that comes up in Cat is actually sung by him!
But this is something that adeptly draws attention to Mikoto’s previously stated skills and hobbies-
Q.04 Are you picky when it comes to fashion?
Mikoto: Of course I am. Nobody would want to ask for anything from an unfashionable designer, right?
Q.07 What are your hobbies?
Mikoto: shopping / darts / photography / cycling
Q.08 What’s the most rewarding part of your current job?
Mikoto: I mean, it’s the top advertising agency in the industry? Anyone would be proud to be a part of it. I put a lot of work in just to get here, too.
Design, photography, and advertising. All things that require people to know, not only how to conduct and present themselves, but how to present others and concepts to people in a way that will be favorable and hopefully increase revenue and sales.
So, why wouldn’t Mikoto pull out all the stops to present himself in a way that would get him a more favorable response after the train wreck that was his first trial?
To be fair, when we were first discussing it, I didn’t really understand how tacking on (MeMe) after Double would make Mikoto look any better. Then Gunsli stated that outside of the meta viewpoint, we’d tackled already (which I had to bring to her attention)- That there was a second thing that made this translation decision interesting.
The fact that it served to connect Mikoto back to the song at all. As though Mikoto is trying to haphazardly put his name or presence on someone else’s work. Gunsli put it best,
“It’s a great visual example of Mikoto tacking himself onto John’s pain. Connecting himself to his suffering in order to justify his actions and avoid taking accountability. Really homing in on one of the core questions Milgram as a facility and project has continued to pose to those that participate in it- Is one’s anger justifiable when they are getting angry at something that did not happen to them. Or is it simply a case of know-it-alls not being able to mind their own business? Or in the words of Mikoto from MeMe, “This isn’t too much is it?”. At what point does defending another person become too much? Can it really be considered protecting yourself if the self you’re protecting is their own person in their own right? Or is this just a new layer of self-justification that Mikoto has created in order to downplay how much agency he had over the situation. “I’m probably not to blame, it’s probably nothing. I’m probably just having a bad dream, I need to wake up soon.”.”
“All I did was dream, and that’s what you found GUILTY?”
(Gunsli here- This line isn’t even the only one they do this with when it comes to the translations. They also do it again with the word us at the start of the Double. “Just the two of us, relieved, aren’t you? I’ll protect you (us).” Once again using parentheses to give further context or emphasize unstated things.)
Now, I’m gonna leave the second half of this to Gunsli-
Secondly,
"The “newborn” other you."
Gunsli here and-
Man, I really didn’t think we’d be taking the metaphorical as literal. Especially after all the fuss around the visuals of I Love You but- I guess things are only metaphorical or literal based on how convenient it is for things to be that in the moment. If we took every instance that the word baby is used in any song as literally as newborn is being taken here music would be rather complicated to say the least.
Yet, I guess since this is a Japanese phrase it’s a bit more specific than that. That this phrase is only applicable when discussing newly born beings and nothing else. Well, not exactly. Regardless of how specific a language is there are still instances where words and phrases will have different meanings based on the context they are said in. A good deal of people like to poke fun at English for being a mutt language and incredibly indirect, but every language has room for miscommunications or misunderstandings to occur.
Because every language is the sum of a culture's collective history. All languages are always building off of themselves and evolving and certain terms that meant one thing to the last generation can mean an entirely different thing to the next. This is true in the instance of not only the Japanese phrasing of this line but the English one as well.
So, let’s start with the English one.
“Me, the newborn other you, I’ll take it all on.”
Firstly, me in this instance is ore in Japanese. In the context of Milgram we know ore is used when John is referring to themselves. At least this is the pattern that has been presented. However, it is not always the case. Ore and boku can be used to refer to each of them respectively and collectively. However, for the sake of this example, let’s say it refers to John.
Me (John), the newborn-
Okay, we’ve gotten to the main offender in this sentence. Newborn. In English newborn is no longer contextually used to refer to a baby/infant or someone who was just born. Also, it never only referred to that to begin with and has not been colloquially used in this way for some time unless one is referring to someone they know very little about having a child.
For example,
“Where’s Janice from accounting? I haven’t seen her in a good while.”
“Oh, you didn’t hear? She had a newborn. So, she’s on maternity leave.”
Even then this is still rather formal and outdated. An interaction like this is more likely to go.
“Where’s Janice from accounting? I haven’t seen her around in a while.”
“Oh, you haven’t heard she just had a baby. She’s on maternity leave.”
Alright but they’re translating from Japanese to English and using baby or infant in the context of the sentence presented would be odd. Yeah, that’s right, it would be odd. That’s why in the beginning, I found it strange to even look into this line in this context as though it could in some way even tangentially be related to birth or children.
If it would be odd to add the word baby in this context, chances are that this probably has nothing to do with them or birth in the conventional organic sense of the word.
But born is in the word.
Okay, let’s do what we did with Neoplasm. Because, clearly the internet only taught some people one meaning of these words.
So, bear witness to this real quick-
Bear: To support or hold up.
Gif made by Star
Double: ““No, I need to do more…”, say what? You’re gonna break. Me, the newborn other you, I’ll take it all on.”
This is rather self-explanatory. To say that one will take it all on is to state their intentions to take on the burdens, issues, or stressors of another person or of a specific event. For example to take blame and face punishment for a crime one did not commit in order to protect another. Mikoto is also shown in Double using the bat for support.
Bear Down: Proceed forcefully toward.
Gif made by Star
While making the gifs Star pointed out that the word next to the three arrows pointing at the assailant here is "Savior" in sloppy English. This is emphasized by having "Save you" appear next to the figure as they continue to walk forward.
Showing that (whichever one of them this is) believes themselves to be their savior and that what we see them doing here isn't an attack or them hunting the other down but them going to save the other.
Adding more meaning behind these lines,
"Cling to me, hoist me up as your “savior”, stand up and sing out your gratitude, that’d be good." - "Cling to me, hoist me up as your “savior”, stand up and sing out your gratitude, so why?"
Alright, all of that is very interesting Gunsli. However, bear is not the word that we’re here to discuss today. The word is “Newborn”. What possible bearing could this word have on that? That’s a good question. It just so happens that one of the root words of “Newborn” comes from bear.
Since the word comes from both New and Born.
New (Old English Niwian, Neowian)
Fourth Definition: Bring forth.
MeMe
“Why?”
““I” will save “me”.”
“Switch, shake up that brain.”
“Why am I here? It must be a mistake right? Take a good look at me until you find me.”
Double
“I’ve got you, leave it to me!”
““He’s a liar”, you said, and made me out to be a scoundrel, why?”
“Hey, I just wanted to save you, so why did it come to this? Cling to me, hoist me up as your “savior”, stand up and sing out your gratitude, so why. I don’t remember a thing, it couldn’t be helped, I’m DOUBLE (MeMe). I was having such a hard time, I was trying so hard.”
This is not self-explanatory. So, I’m going to take the time to explain what was going on in my mind when I decided to highlight these lyrics. I was interpreting bring forth in the context of switching. Mikoto is shown throughout MeMe to be looking for himself. Throughout the lyrics and the visuals. This is something reiterated through Double in a more chilling way. As it starts with what seems to be John being forced to the forefront due to Mikoto becoming too stressed. Something we see occur in Mikoto’s first and second voice dramas.
John even making it clear from the beginning that he’s not out because he wants to be yelling,
“AaaAAAGH! Fuck… Fuck… STOP PISSING ME OFF!” While audibly stomping around and possibly messing up his hair the same way we see him do in Double. Basically, throwing a tantrum.
Couple this with his first cover song expressly stating that feeling ashamed which can cause stress and anxiety will open a role for an idiot to play (something we’ll go into after this) gives us a good understanding of what occurred in response to Mikoto's verdict.
Something that if we didn’t catch onto John was more than happy to bluntly state to us in their second voice drama.
Neoplasm Voice Drama
“I (boku) might be trying to disappear.”
“Evidently, the time I (ore) have been fronting has been getting longer, so this “me” has been able to stabilize. Isn’t that the reason we can talk properly?”
The mental stress caused to Mikoto due to his previous verdict has led to him not being able to properly cope with the circumstances and drawing inward more as a result. Now fronting less and less as John (the one portrayed as being more used to stressful circumstances and better at holding things down) takes the forefront.
MeMe
“Hurting it, holding it down, it doesn’t change anything, does it?”
Double
““No, I need to do more…”, say what? You’re gonna break.”
Neoplasm Voice Drama
“Yeah. I… probably come out to ease the stress Boku experiences. The fact that I come out for longer just means that Boku is constantly under extreme stress.”
The fact that you judged against forgiving Boku is causing a lot of stress.”
Depending on which of them has memories of the crime this could be a good thing.
"That’s why he’s entrusting me with his heart."
This leads well into the next definition-
Ninth Definition: Substitute.
Double: “Leave it to me.”- “I’ll take it all on.”-”Relieved, aren’t you?”-“I’ll protect you (us).”
These are again things I find self-explanatory but I’ll explain for the sake of clarity. These are all things one says when taking on another’s responsibilities or substituting for them. Usually someone is given a substitute when they cannot fulfill their duties for one reason or another. How John describes the current circumstances in Neoplasm makes it sound as though he is substituting for Mikoto because as he said in his second cd trailer,
“I can’t take it anymore…”
Monopoisoner: “As for who is acting strangely, look here, it’s already been decided that I’m the normal one, OK?”- “Do you have a preference for plundering? Because what’s being stolen away right now is your life. “How’s this? How’s this? What do you think?” Even though the outcome was understood from the start… The foolish you is already done for “nothing to see here, move on, pay no heed”.”- ““Please, bring to an end this world today” but that hole opens up a role for me to play. “Please, feel ashamed of this self from today” but that hole opens up a role for an idiot to play.”
gif made by @apatchworkstar
“You’re overdoing it, you’re already broken. But if you persist, I guess it’s my job to keep things on an even keel. Me, the other you, I’ll take it all on.”
In my opinion the Milgram staff could not make it clearer who the actual killer is at this point outside of the third trial just blatantly telling us if Mikoto gets as cocky as Mu did in response to his Innocent verdict. (Remember those underlined parts from the beginning of this post? Yeah, that comes in now.)
Literally each time he says the other you in this song Me comes before it. Plus like Star established earlier the staff literally choose to shove (MeMe) in here when again it is not said to further highlight this more subtle aspect to oversea viewers.
They basically made it so if you line up every time this phrase is said you just get-
“Me, the newborn other you, I’ll take it all on.”
“Me, the other you, I’ll take it all on.”
The title of the first trial song and they only put this phrase in twice within the lyrics to give this effect. Like this isn’t even a stretch at this point. They’ve gone above and beyond to highlight that Mikoto did that shit but we’re focusing on “newborn” right now. Moment of appreciation for the best translated lyrics of trial two. Like honestly the amount of information they had to shove directly into this man's lyrics due to his rather disjointed mv (that they still managed to get a lot of information in as well by the way) and still managed to get in is impressive.
It’s actually jaw dropping when one takes the time to look into it.
So, now that we have a bit of the history of the word “Newborn” how does it apply to this sentence,
“Me, the newborn other you, I’ll take it all on.”
Well given the etymology of Newborn we’ve learned a few things. One of them being that newborn is not only used to refer to recently born things but newly discovered concepts. Yet to reduce my own point a great deal we only need one source and one source only Merriam-Webster. Well, that and an understanding of English grammar.
Are you getting it yet? Well, if not here’s an English refresher in a form most Milgram fans should be used to music-
Now, I'm assuming you’ve watched both of those great videos. So, how is “newborn” being used here exactly?
“Me, the newborn other you, I’ll take it all on.”
That’s right baby, that word is being used in its adjective form not its noun form. Newborn is being used to describe the Me in this sentence the newborn other you. That is what the pronoun me is being described as in this sentence. So, what does that mean folks? Well, it means that Me in this context is not a newborn individual but instead a recently born or born anew construct or in this case self. Definitively showcasing that the newborn being referred to here cannot and never could in this sentence be defined as a newborn individual. At least that would not be the only meaning in its adjective state.
There’s a difference between referring to a newborn and describing someone as a newborn. Be it oneself or another person. I know this is very confusing. I’m sorry and it doesn’t get any easier going into the Japanese. Something that even I am going to need help with and luckily can get help with.
That’s later though all one needs to know for now is yes, the adjective state of the word may be used to refer to things that are not infants or newly born. Think of it like the word discovered. You know in the sense that Christopher Columbus “discovered” America. The word is kind of like that. Yeah, that’s the type of shit we’re getting into later. Yet, for now let’s keep things simple.
A better way to explain this is by showing the synonyms and example sentences for the adjective state of this word,
Know who the adjective form of newborn perfectly describes out of the two? Could it be the tired, bags under the eyes, lethargic John or Mikoto Hypnos’ favorite human?
Man, is it “I’ve slept for twelve restful hours” Mikoto or John the one displayed as being soooo tired he passes out on public transport. Literally one of the most dangerous things a person can do.
I wonder who it could be…
If only we had a clue or a hint? (Or a bed for John.)
Ah well too bad. There’s nothing like that… I guess we’ll never solve this conundrum. It’s not as though newborn can be used to describe someone who has been reinvigorated or has come across a new sense of purpose or direction. It’d be incredibly awkward if that were the case. Because even ignoring everything else that would be a very nice and subtle way, still open enough to be interpreted a myriad of ways, for this series to highlight even further that Mikoto did that shit without blatantly saying he did.
Luckily that English word only refers to organisms that have just been born and nothing else and no one will find any sources stating otherwise ever. So, it’s best to not look and we should all just do what Mikoto- I mean John said,
“Come to know me as an honest man, eat your words, gulp them down.”
Okay, but what about the Japanese lyrics?
“産声を上げたもうひとりの俺が、全部背負うから”/ Ubugoe wo ageta mou hitori no ore ga, zenbu seou kara.
One rough interpretation of the phrase in english could be,
“Born again, I (ore) alone will take responsibility for everything.”
So, why use newborn instead of born again?
As we discussed before, no language is that easy to grasp. There are multiple ways for various translators to interpret this phrase. Not all of them will give the same exact perspective on a phrase and their translations are prone to be influenced by not only their own personal experiences but their relationship with the work being translated. For example I had DoctorBunny help me out when it came to getting a grasp of the Japanese in this instance.
During the process he said this,
“Trust me this is a very newborn invoking line. It's a saying basically used synonymously with being born. A favourite of foetus musician Mao Sasagawa.”
However, the example he gave was musical. This isn’t problematic or anything but it’s kind of easy to form a rebuttal against it. Something I’ll illustrate now- while answering that question I posed earlier with this song.
Born again in the west has a very religious connotation and even though the word savior is used within Double the staff probably didn’t want to tie Mikoto’s character that heavily to religion. Because as Mikoto has stated repeatedly he views himself as his on “Savior” and-
Q.19 Do you believe god exists?
Mikoto: I don’t believe, no. I don’t feel so strongly that I’m gonna deny the possibility but- Like, what do I gain from believing?
Taking into consideration how synonymous with religion the term born again is and Mikoto’s characterization thus far, would it really be contextually appropriate for them to translate it in that way for a western audience?
Definitely not.
Especially considering the timing of his second song's release. Ya know- Being right after the most religiously involved character in the franchise. Those are the type of things a staff has to take into consideration when translating information into other languages for vastly different cultures. Again, the consideration and care put into the translation of Double in particular, is apparent in every line, every word said or not that they added in order to make sure regardless of the language one spoke everyone was getting not only a unique but as accurate as possible experience.
Personally, I believe that the effort put in in this instance should not only be respected but lauded. For now though let’s give the Japanese lyrics some much due attention. Because they are just as good.
Believe it or not that idiomatic expression is what led to this entire post. When I saw this I couldn’t help but think of a phrase in English that is the exact opposite of the one highlighted.
“This will never see the light of day.”
To see the light of day is a common phrase that on top of being another synonym for being born means,
To come to existence or be made known.
It’s a rather colloquial way of describing something becoming known or one's desire to let something be known. Like in the example I previously provided. This is what caused the idiomatic definition to catch my interest.
So, what is an idiomatic expression, well it’s a colloquialism basically.
Idiomatic means to use, denote, or contain expressions that would be natural to native speakers. Meaning that to first see the light of day is a common way of using this expression to native-speakers.
Yet, the technical use of the word is still related to the first cry or children.
As a native English speaker when I say,
“Things I hope never see the light of day again.”
“Man, I hope someone sheds light on your actions one day.”
I and other native English speakers know I am not hoping for someone to get a light and shine it on that person or their actions but instead I want what they’ve done to either be known or ignored. This song is a perfect example of the concept.
Now, what made this way of viewing the information even more interesting is how Mikoto’s second trial mv plays with light in general. Double does this through its day and night cycles. Unlike MeMe that takes place during the night only and displays Mikoto sleeping through the day in Double, we see John up during the day and taking a backseat at night.
As Mikoto is shown to literally be committing these attacks at night again through the dark lighting on his side of the train. The visuals go out of the way to show his side of the train remaining unlit while John’s has light during the very first attack.
Double quite literally doubles down on playing around with lighting as a visual storytelling method. Perfectly illustrating to us that there’s something Mikoto did that he never wants to let see the light of day. Yet, it does see the light of as you can see from above. What was once happening in the dark comes closer and closer to light until the two are basically overlapping.
As though looking in a mirror
Light becomes dark then Dark becomes light and eventually inevitably the two overlap-
As we see them face each other at the climax. One facing the reality of what they’ve done while the other isn’t even capable of facing themselves fully let alone their role in this.
“I’m probably not to blame, it’s probably nothing. I’m probably just having a bad dream, I need to wake up soon. Why am I here? It must be a mistake right? Take a good look at me. Until you find me- Why, hey why, I’m nowhere to be found.” - ““He’s a liar”, you said, and made me out to be a scoundrel, why? All I did was dream, so you find me INNOCENT, it’s that simple right? Come to know me as an honest man, eat your words, gulp them down.”
Then there’s these meanings for the phrase as well (which should seem pretty familiar after all this)
2. To be burdened with; to take responsibility for.
So, remember Bear? If not, here are some of the meanings for it applicable with this definition here.
Bear: To carry. To endure without resistance. To support, hold up. Carry a burden.
3. To have (something) in the background; to be in front of something.
Bear: Bring; bring forth.
With this we’ve gone full circle. Yet, that’s not the only interesting thing about this meaning. Applying the third meaning to Mikoto’s characters specifically could make this sentence a very artistic way of describing fronting. As we discussed before with Bear. (Can't believe I've got to quote myself from earlier in this post right now.)
“I was interpreting bring forth in the context of switching. Mikoto is shown throughout MeMe to be looking for himself. Throughout the lyrics and the visuals. This is something reiterated through Double in a more chilling way. As it starts with what seems to be John being forced to the forefront due to Mikoto becoming too stressed. Something we see occur in Mikoto’s first and second voice dramas.”
That’s it we’ve done it that’s everything that’s a full fucking language loop. So, hopefully from this we’ve all learned a bit more about not only Mikoto but language in general. My hope with this is that it gives people a newfound appreciation for not only linguistics but the tremendous effort the Milgram staff have put in over the course of trial two. Now, with all that out of the way. I can finally say (in my opinion)-
This case is closed.
Also, John in Double be like-
second gif edited by Star
Well, that's all if you made it through all of this congrats. Hopefully you've learned some new interesting things.
Jacka: Ah, good morning, Ego! I almost got worried that you'll stay unconscious forever.
Ego: Huh…
Jacka: You're still sleepy? Take your time waking up.
…Well, not too much, or the trials are going to get delayed!
Do you remember where we are?
Ego: Ah… This place…
…MILGRAM Prison.
The place to pass judgment on the sins.
Jacka: You have a very good memory. Excellent answer!
Well, some things that you remember might have changed now, though… Okay, let's take a look around the prison. I need to have an important talk with you.
Ego: Huh? Hm… I'd rather still lay down, though…
Jacka: No sleeping, get up!
Ego: Ahh, you're noisy. …Besides, it's the problem with my body… I feel sluggish.
Jacka: Oh, right. That must be normal. But if you don't move, tiredness won't go away. So, come on, rise and shine!
Ego: Okay, okay… Ugh… What a severe headache…
[footsteps]
Jacka: So, there’s your room, my room, storage room, showers…
Ego: Do you think I can keep up with all of this?
Jacka: So capricious!
Ego: Mhm.
Jacka: These things don’t matter as much at the moment. And there’s a map of the whole prison, so you can always look them up.
Ego: Hm-m. Thank you for thinking about my comfort.
Jacka: …You know, you might be sleepy, but you don’t seem confused in the slightest, even though it’s a creepy place. It’s nice to see such a dutiful kid.
Ego: Huh? Don’t call me a kid, I’m 18. And it’s not that much of a “creepy place”. Actually, I feel completely used to it. As if I’ve spent quite a while here.
Jacka: I see, I see! So proud of your courage.
Ego: (sighs)
(door opening)
Jacka: Here we are- Panopticon!
Ego: So loud…
Jacka: Hey, aren’t you impressed? It’s huge.
Ego: It’s because you’re small.
Jacka: Bully!
Ego: Well, I told you I’m used to it. Nothing to be impressed about.
Jacka: Hu-u-uh… is that so.
…You don’t really remember anything besides your warden duty and the prison’s purpose, right?
Ego: Yeah. What about it?
Jacka: No, just got curious.
Okay, we can see prisoners’ rooms from here. They must be sleeping now… I say “must be”, but I’m wondering if they really are. Some seem like they have pretty bad sleep schedules.
Ego: Have you tracked their sleeping habits?
Jacka: Not really, I can tell from looks.
Ego: Oh? A pretty superficial way to draw conclusions, if you ask me.
Jacka: Yes yes, this is exactly why I'm not the one proposing verdicts. I'm sure, the time I'll see you showing the correct way, I will be impressed and astonished.
Ego: You have a habit of sweet-talking too much. …Well, I'll make sure to do my job properly, though.
Jacka: Mhm! Since we have plenty of time, I’ll briefly introduce the prisoners to you.
I’ve only seen their prisoner cards, though. Because until the start of the first trial, we’re all locked in our separate rooms. Ah, I can’t wait for this prison to become noisy.
Ego: Huh. I’m not particularly fond of noise. Why would you want it?
Jacka: I like observing humans. In fact, I’m pretty talkative, but they aren’t able to hear me. Such a pity!
Ego: So it means that you’re going to annoy me and me only?
Jacka: Ah, come on! You’re such a snarky kid at times.
Ego: What I told you…
Jacka: Isn't it only fair, since you're constantly making fun of your cute Jacka? Anyway, let’s go, let’s go. Time to talk about the prisoners.
Jacka: Prisoner number 1. They don’t have a name.
Ego: Well, that’s certainly a start.
Jacka: Right! We weren't able to identify them. Maybe they're going to pick a substitute name for themselves later. You know, just so that we can refer to them in daily conversations.
Ego: What a troublesome job.
Jacka: Huh? You're willing to abandon your duties already?
Ego: No, I just find complaining enjoyable.
Jacka: Hm…? I have yet much to learn about human behavior.
About the unnamed prisoner… They seem like a cool type. You know, a chill, confident, but super quiet and reserved person. It might be hard to get information out of them.
Ego: On top of that you couldn't identify them…
Jacka: Alright, next!
Ego: Yikes.
Jacka: Prisoner number 2, Amano Remi. A cute teenage girl! She's smiling so cheerfully on her prisoner card.
Hm…
Ego: What are you staring at me for?
Jacka: I think you'd get along well with this one. You're somewhat similar.
Ego: It's just because we're both teenagers, isn't it.
Jacka: Next! Prisoner number 3, Tonoshita Kouta. A modest-looking university student. When it's time for the interrogation, be sure to make him feel at ease, okay? He seems really worried.
Ego: Don't throw around advice…
Jacka: Oh, also, I like his hair. It's cute.
Ego: Do you consider everyone in here cute?
Jacka: Are you jealous? No worries, you're the cutest one!
Ego: Not in particular…
Jacka: Prisoner number 4, Yuunagi Kai. I remember she's the oldest one here. There's some kind of an uneasy feeling around her, but she's cute, so I don't mind it.
Ego: What do you mean, an uneasy feeling?
Jacka: Hm-m, like, she seems to hide secrets. Might be hard to find out the information about her, too.
Ego: Troublesome job.
Jacka: Complaining dismissed!
Ego: My my.
Jacka: Prisoner number 5, Muku Ayame. A teenage girl. Ah, she's one of the people who seem to have horrible sleep schedules. The eye bags on her prisoner card photo… I can't forget them. Frankly, she looks kind of disheveled, but it makes her charming in its own way.
Ego: Is that so.
Jacka: Prisoner number 6, Kawai Chise. A teenage girl.
Ego: …That's a lot of them.
Jacka: Brought them to keep you company!
She has a blank expression on her prisoner card photo, so it's hard to say what kind of person she is. She's really beautiful, though. Reminds me of an angel.
Ego: Huh, so, a pretty girl. Those tend to be arrogant.
Jacka: Prisoner number 7, Suzuki Toa. A teenage boy. I appreciate his cheerfulness, but he seems like an average adolescent of the human species. Not much to tell about him.
Ego: Thank you for the information…
Jacka: Prisoner number 8, Shimizu Miku. A teenage boy as well, but he has much more personality in him. Seems like a bit hard to deal with, though.
…Hm…
Ego: You're staring at me again.
Jacka: Yeah, he must be a snarky kid like you.
Ego: Oh, come on. Boys are much more annoying, so don't compare us.
Jacka: Is that so?
The last one, prisoner number 9.
Ego: —The last one? There's two more rooms.
Jacka: They're locked.
Ego: Huh. What's behind them?
Jacka: I don't know. I'm not really responsible for this prison, remember? It's your job to research every corner here. Maybe you'll even find a key to these doors!
Ego: Ah-h…
Jacka: Anyway, prisoner number 9, Nishiyama Hiiro. A university student. If you ask me, I think a longer hair would make her better. Also, she seems pretty dissatisfied with the condition she's in, so be careful.
Ego: Is she going to attack me or what?
Jacka: Prisoners can't attack the warden, so no worries about it.
Ego: Really?
Jacka: You’ll see it yourself if anything happens, but yes, really. I can't predict the prisoners’ actions, but her angry look really got engraved in my mind.
[bell rings]
Ego: Ack… this sound is worsening my headache.
Jacka: Ah, we're out of time! Prisoners are going to wake up soon. Are you anxious?
Ego: Uh… Can't tell.
Jacka: Oh, as always, no traces of doubt, at all! It's a pleasure to work with you. Yes, keep it up! No doubts!
Ego: Huh.
Jacka: Let’s observe them together. I love watching humans!
Because the world is full of twisted people of all kinds. From now on, take good care of them and don't look away, no matter what you see… Warden.
Always fun to think prisoner character parallels since they have so many overarching themes that you can't really decide on One specific theme to encompass the whole of their character. I've seen twenty different interpretations on character duo meanings and what they represent it's really fun
Though I'm still personally unsure on what Haruka-Yuno and to a lesser extent Mikoto-Kotoko have thematically...I understand Fuuta-Muu, Shidou-Mahiru and Kazui-Amane (which reminds me to finish Multiple Wips oh dear-) but the first two and the last two give me some trouble when thinking about what unites the two...Anyone got any ideas?
Oh prisoner duos my beloved. I might not be extremely familiar with Haruka and Yuno, but I still have quite a few thoughts about them! And also Mikoto and Kotoko. I'll try to keep this free of Deep Cover and YONAH spoilers!
CW Murder, child abuse, animal cruelty, abortion, sex work, vigilantism, toxic work culture
Haruka - Yuno
The main thing that unites them, in my opinion, is the desire for attention/recognition of some kind, or perhaps the fear of abandonment, which is in some way what led to Haruka's muder and Yuno's abortion. Haruka wanted attention from his mother, Yuno wanted the "warmth" of her clients. Except the way they want to be perceived is extremely different. Haruka wants to be pitied, while Yuno hates being seen that way.
[Weakness]
I wanted to be a pitied and loved weakling
[Tear Drop]
“Poor naive little girl”?
So off the mark, what's it to you? It's just absurd
This ties into another one of their main themes, that being maturity. Haruka was happiest when he was a child, as his disability was less noticeable then.
(T2) Q8: Do you have any fun memories of your childhood?
H: My childhood was fun. My mom was nice too back then.
However, as he grew, his disability became more apparent, and he began being neglected as a result. Because of that, Haruka wants to essentially go back to his childhood. That's where the amber symbolism comes from. The same way amber preserves things as they are when they become encased in it, Haruka is stuck in a point in time, in a point of his past he tries to go back to by being pitied. At least, this was his attitude during T1.
Meanwhile, Yuno does the opposite. Despite being practically the same age as Haruka, a teenager, she wants to be perceived as an adult. She engages in adult activities, she wants people to recognize her actions are a result of her own decisions, etc. In a way, Yuno is always looking at the future, always looking for the next thrill, the next way to "reload the warmth." Opposite of Haruka wanting to go back to the past by being pitied.
The thing about the want for attention also connects to their self-worth, specifically, the connection between their self-worth and the way it connects to how people view them. It's a looser connection, but I think it's worth mentioning. Haruka dislikes himself because of his disability:
[AKAA]
Don’t leave me alone, don’t leave me
Why was I born like this?
Why does it hurt so much?
[Metamorphosis of the Weak]
Haruka: Because I'm the only one who could never do anything right since I was born, because I could never do the same things as everyone around me, my mother gave up on me and I stopped existing in her world!
And that's why he seeks worth in others' opinion:
[Metamorphosis of the Weak]
Haruka: Because you told me that what I did wasn't wrong…!
That's what changed me! I was saved by you, Guard-san…
[...]
Haruka: So what if [Muu]'s using me? Isn't it a good thing to be used? For someone to think of me as worthy enough to use me… isn't that something to be happy about?
In other words, Haruka's sense of self-image is almost entirely tied to the way people view him.
Meanwhile, Yuno's sense of self-worth is... complicated. I'm going to be honest, I'm not 100% sure I'm right in what I'm about to say, but well here I go.
The first thing about Yuno is that she doesn't consider herself important.
[Timelines 02/09/23]
Yuno: For me, no one is particularly important. That includes myself as well.
She's also mentioned she doesn't want to live past 40. But also:
(T2) Q1: Do you like yourself?
Y: Kind of? Well, if I were to reincarnate and live as myself all over again, I wouldn't mind it.
So, she doesn't mind who she is, she just doesn't consider herself important, which is... something. Then, she also considers herself* a murderer and considers* enjo kosai immoral, but she doesn't really care.
[*I don't agree, but we're talking about Yuno's perception here. I trust you knew this, but Tumblr is infamous for the lack of reading comprehension lol]
[Absolute Zero]
Yuno: But immoral acts that don't cause anyone misfortune do exist, right? Just like sugar-daddying: because it's been deemed ethically wrong, I was hiding it, but… is someone being troubled by it? It's a win-win engagement, isn't it?
Yuno: I have no intent to say abortion isn't murder. I'm a respectable murderer.
[...]
Yuno: To the extent of understanding the feeling of actually taking a life... I couldn't feel that that was a life. A discomfort and…the sensation of a foreign body….
Es: ...
Yuno: Do you feel disdain? Sorry! But, really, I can't claim a sadness I never actually felt.
To me, it seems that it comes down to Yuno's realism. If something doesn't have a clear negative consequence, she doesn't regret doing it, regardless of what other people might think*. That's why she claims not to really care about ethics and morals.
(T2) Q13: What is the difference between you and someone else?
Yuno: I might be a little too realistic.
[Absolute Zero]
Es: I have no intention to pursue your numerous acts outside of murder, but there is no mistake that [compensated dating] is an ethically questionable act.
Yuno: Ah…I don't have much interest in things like ethics and morals.
(Throw Down, ethics is a delusion)
[*It's impirtant to note that Yuno is very socially aware. She knows what people might think about her, she just doesn't outwardly seem to care. There could be an argument that she does care and just puts up a front of not caring, but I'm just going off her direct statements]
But I'm getting a bit off track. What's important for our purposes right now is that Yuno's sense of self-worth isn't tied to the way others view her. Rather, she confidently believes herself to be one way, and wants people to perceive her like that.
[Tear Drop]
If you want “me”, come marco, I'll polo
It's bothersome for her if people don't respect her autonomy and make assumptions about her, which is why she wants to be perceived as an adult in the first place, but she still remains true to herself and doesn't tie her self-image to the way others perceive her.
[Absolute Zero]
Yuno: Creating a personally idealized version of me. Creating an acceptable version of me. They really exist, you know, those kinds of people.
And in particular, those kinds of people…won't do anything for me.
The parallel I'm trying to get at is that Haruka's self-perception changed as a result of the way people viewed him, while Yuno doesn't want to change based on others' opinions and just wants others to perceive the real her. I hope that makes some amount of sense lol.
That's just sorta off the top of my head, but there's a lot of other stuff. The theme of motherhood which others in the notes have mentioned, with Haruka being abandoned by his mother the same way one could say Yuno 'abandoned' her pregnancy. And then there's lyric similarities. A lot of them come down to the fear of abandonment I sorta mentioned already.
[AKAA]
Don’t leave me alone, don’t leave me
Why was I born like this?
Why does it hurt so much?
I just wanted to be your good boy
Why am I crying again?
If with one click, and I can reset everything
Can I be your favorite this time?
[Umbilical]
What type of girl do you like?
I want to become like that, but that’s probably too hard for me
[...]
Are we over? Please don’t answer
What do you want to do? Please tell me
[AKAA]
Mommy, look,
I’ve done great
“There there, my good boy!”
[Umbilical]
Am I a bad girl? Please don’t answer
Another fun thing I noticed looking at the lyrics is the idea of repeated self-indulgent actions. For Haruka it's killing and destroying things for attention, for Yuno it's compensated dating. Quite different actions, but they're there.
[Weakness]
I am always repeating yesterday, though it’s important to know when to give up
[AKAA]
I will keep on killing to be a good boy
[Umbilical]
“Good morning” “Good night”
I want to be with you as many times as I can
[Tear Drop]
Desire, bestow, and desire again
The episode reloading on an endless loop
Alright I'll stop talking about these two now before I go too insane.
Mikoto - Kotoko
So this one can be split between Kotoko's parallels with John and Kotoko's parallels with Mikoto.
Kotoko's parallels with John are pretty straightforward. As others have mentioned, they want to protect someone(s) they consider weak, and end up hurting these very people.
[Double]
John: Doesn’t matter if you didn’t wish for it
Can’t get rid of me now
Just the two of us, relieved aren’t you?
I’ll protect you
[...]
Hey now, I saved you right?
So why in the hell are you crying?
Cling to me, hoist me up as your “savior”
Stand up and sing your gratitude
That’d be good
[Neoplasm]
John: It's true that I was the one who wanted to destroy everything… and the weakness of Mikoto, who couldn't stand up for himself all alone, might have been the origin of that.
[T2 Voice Trailer Distorted Quote]
Kotoko: From the beginning I've never asked for your understanding! My actions, one by one, are bringing earth closer to peace. Useless weaklings should just shut up and let me protect them!
Hence the shared symbolism of canines; John the guard dog and Kotoko the wolf.
However, there's some interest contrast in the way John and Kotoko view their roles as "saviors." John sees protecting Mikoto as the whole reason he exists, just like Kotoko finds purpose in protecting the weak as she otherwise dislikes herself.
[Neoplasm]
John: I… was born to protect Mikoto, after all.
[HARROW]
Feeding on food so I don’t burn out
[...]
Goodnight “HARROW” “HARROW”
Laugh and I can get to like myself
But here's the thing. Kotoko sees herself and her work as extremely important, she wants to continue doing it. Defeating evil is the "food" she needs to keep going.
[HARROW]
Shall we replace the poor soul, and the miserable delusion
“I didn’t mean to offend”, “I won’t do it again”
How many wins in a row?
Whose fault is it, This is getting ridiculous
What should the punishment be
Meanwhile, John wants to disappear. He wants Mikoto to stop having issues so he can stop existing.
[Neoplasm]
John: I'll have to disappear eventually, anyway…
Disappear, and take all of it with me.
[Double]
John: If only I were never born, if only
[MeMe]
John(?*): I'd play dead even though I'm alive right?
If I could end, if I could stop
How long would this dream go on?
[...]
John(?): Is this selfish? This isn't too much is it?
[*I've seen debate on who is singing each part of MeMe, so I'm putting a question mark to clarify not everyone's gonna agree that's John singing, that's just how I see it.]
This creates the interest contrast of Kotoko always actively seeking the next reason to give justice:
[Song of Prisoners, Deep Cover preview]
Give me my next purpose
(It doesn't count as a spoiler if it's in the preview right?)
-while John wants to stop having a purpose, he wants Mikoto to live in peace. Hence the whole "if only I was never born" thing.
Going back to the canine thing, you've also mentioned in some of your posts that canines in Milgram are often related to the concept of childhood and youth, which is another shared aspect of John and Kotoko.
John has the whole "newborn" thing going on, being represented by The Fool and only having split recently.
[Double]
John: Me, the newborn other you
Meanwhile, there is a lot of "rebirth" symbolism at the end of HARROW. Between the Red Riding Hood stuff, the full moon plus sunrise, and:
[HARROW]
Newly born “HARROW” “HARROW”
-there's the implication that the Kotoko we see after her murder is a "newborn" version of Kotoko, in spite of what she claims about being "the same since she was twelve." Something something it's hard to realize when you're being gradually radicalized something something.
But that's John and Kotoko. Mikoto also has some interesting parallels.
One of the main points is their connection to the concept of normalcy, which extends to their relationship with certain societal systems.
Mikoto is Just Some Dude. That's his thing. That's how he's introduced. He's often represented in some way by a featureless mannequin indistinguishable from all other mannequins.
[John Doe] The VD not the character- This name is annoying
Mikoto: Even if you talk about sins or murderers– I don't know about any of that! I'm just a normal worker at a company…
[...]
Mikoto: I was just living an ordinary, everyday life… and yet I got dragged into something this weird!
Mikoto works very hard to keep up this image of normalcy, to the point Yuno calls it out.
[Timelines 08/07/23]
Yuno: Hey, Mikoto-san. Don’t you get tired being so conscious of others all the time? I mean, you’re free to do what you want though.
Mikoto: Eh…… Aha, what are you talking about? I’m not being conscious or anything.
It’s normal to make sure to get along with everyone, right?
But something important to keep in mind is that this idea of normalcy is very heavily tied to Mikoto's job. In his eyes, part of being "normal" is having a job and working hard on it, and part of his job is making sure he's "normal" and keeps good connections.
[Timelines 08/07/23]
Yuno: Ah, is this just what happens when you become a working adult? …you see people like that sometimes.
Mikoto: Haha, you don’t mince your words do you.
...that was never my intention, but now that you mention it, yeah, I guess I do. This might’ve been since I started my job too… But like, if I was rude to everyone I met, all my efforts would come to nothing, right?
(T1) Q8: What are your reasons for wanting to work for your current job?
Mikoto: I work at an advertising company that's at the top of the business world, you know?Just being able to get to that position is something to be proud of. I worked really hard to get hired there, too.
You notice that? When he's asked why he does the work he does, the only thing he says is "it's something to be proud of." He doesn't mention a passion for design, he doesn't mention money, he doesn't mention, I don't know, family tradition or anything. "Just being able to get to that position is something to be proud of." 'Normal' people in his eyes have jobs, and 'normal' people work very hard for their job (Japanese work culture go brr).
Basically, in Mikoto's worldview, there is a certain system which is "normal", and he wants to fit into this "normal" world. Mikoto wants to be another cog in the machine, at least until he can:
(T1) Q14: What'll you be doing in 10 years?
Mikoto: I'd like to work independently and make my own design company. That way I'm free to do what I want.
So he does want freedom, but he's trying to achieve that freedom through the "normal" way, through the work system.
Meanwhile, the things Kotoko considers "normal" are a bit different.
[HARROW]
Becoming light-headed again, it all becomes crazy
The normalcy sought for, Fading away, Everytime death comes
The soul moves forward
[...]
I feel like I’m going crazy after straining my nerves
The person that can’t be saved, Is now understanding the abnormality
Let's ignore for a moment that Kotoko seems to refer to herself as "the person that can't be saved", and focus on the normalcy thing. Basically, Kotoko believes there is a "normal" state of the world which is broken whenever something evil happens.
It's important to note that "normalcy" for her is inextricably linked with "good," and doesn't seem connected to other things which could be considered "normal." For example:
(T1) Q3: Have you ever had a lover?
Mikoto: Of course I have. Do I really look that unpopular?
(T1) Q11: Do you have a lover?
Kotoko: I don't. But if necessary I'll get one.
Having lovers is "normal" in Mikoto's worldview, so he has had lovers. Kotoko is an aromantic queen and does not give a shit, so her answer could be considered "abnormal" in Mikoto's view.
(T1) Q10: What do you think about the word 'femininity'?
Kotoko: It's one of the means you can take.
It's something you can freely choose depending on the scene, so it's not something to cling onto.
She also doesn't seem concerned with being feminine, which could technically be considered "not normal" if you really stretch it.
So what is "normal" for Kotoko? Well, her worldview.
(T1) Q15: Which is more important, the goal or the means you take to achieve it?
Kotoko: The goal. Isn't that just obvious?
In her eyes, the things she believes are common sense. They are "normal." Fun fact, in the first Song of Prisoners, something akin to "for humans" appears over Kotoko, part of the phrase "there are people who understand what I'm doing." The idea being that anyone who understands Kotoko is human (read: normal), and anyone who doesn't, isn't.
The point is that Kotoko considers good things normal and evil things abnormal. Cue the "your entire existence is a crime" line.
So she also seeks her version of normalcy, but she already considers herself normal, she wants the world to be normal. However, unlike Mikoto, who tries to work for his goals through existing systems, Kotoko has expressed that existing systems are not enough to achieve her normalcy, which is why she works outside of them. Well, until she finds Milgram, and now she wants to work alongside it.
[TASK]
Kotoko: There are too many cases of the law being unable to judge evil! Just by exploiting loopholes in law, the numerous evildoers who have bullied and torturing the weak can still live out their lives unpunished!
I want to change this world, but I have a limit with my own power…!
To recap, Mikoto believes the world is normal and tries to enter that normalcy through existing systems, and said systems end up breaking him; while Kotoko believes her worldview and "good things" to be normal, meaning the world is not normal as long as evil exists, and since she has been failed by existing systems she works outside of them to try and achieve this normalcy. I hope that makes sense.
There's one more thing to note; they both want validation that the things they consider normal, are normal.
(T1) Q10: Have you ever gotten angry at other people?
Mikoto: I don't think I've gotten angry before. Isn't it kind of disgraceful to get angry?
I'm using this a s an example of how Mikoto's interrogation answers usually go. He usually answers in question, as if he wants to make sure what he's saying isn't weird. Again, trying to be "normal."
[MeMe]
Mikoto: I will NEVER forgive you if this is happening to me even though I'm right
[Double]
Mikoto: Come to know me as an honest man
Eat your words, gulp them down
These are some of the most strongly worded lines Mikoto has. When his normalcy is challenged, he becomes defensive. He will never forgive Es if he's in Milgram even though he's Normal (TM). He wants to be known as honest, as the Just Some Guy he sees himself as. He wants that validation. He... how do I put this...
[HARROW]
I want to be drowning in the knowledge that I am right
Exactly! Thanks Kotoko! Mikoto wants to know that he's right about his normalcy for sure, the same way Kotoko wants to drown in the knowledge her worldview is normal and correct and common sense.
And there's probably more, especially considering similar lyrics:
[Double]
John: “No I need to do more…” say what? You’re going to break
[HARROW]
I hate all the evils in this world, I feel like I’m about to break
[Double]
Mikoto: All I did was dream
[HARROW]
How heavy “HARROW” “HARROW”
If it damaged someone’s dream to the points of stopping it
I’ll gouge you out with my fangs
Etcetera etcetera, but that's all I have for now.
Hope you could take something from this! Take care!
i’m new to Tumblr and i’m not sure if this is the place to ask but i’m a drdt fan and milgram looks really cool, however i’m not sure where to start or how to get into it, is there anything specific i should do or?
Ah, the DRDT -> Milgram pipeline strikes again I see. Welcome! And yeah, you can ask me anything! Milgram is really fun, even if it can feel a bit intimidating. Take your time! It's quite a bit.
Here is a playlist with some of the most important things in chronological order, and I'll also recommend this masterlink post by doctorbunny, but you can take things at your own pace and do whatever you want forever. However, I'll explain the main things, since there's a lot!
1- Jackalope's Announcements
The first thing you should probably watch is "Jackalope's "This is the MILGRAM"", which explains the premise of the series.
Inside a prison named the Panopticon reside 10 prisoners, all of which are, by some definition of the word, murderers. There is a Warden of this prison, named Es, who must observe their sins and decide whether they should be Forgiven* for their murder, or if they shouldn't be. This is done in a system of three trials. At the time of writing, the First Trial has been completed, the Second Trial is about to end, but we still have the entire Third Trial ahead of us!
Es learns of the prisoners' crimes mainly by watching music videos extracted directly from their minds, though they also interrogate them beforehand.
The twist? Es' decisions on Forgiveness are decided by the audience. Every Trial, after a prisoner's MV (music video) is released, for a period of time (three months), the audience votes whether the prisoner should be Forgiven or not for that Trial. This can be done in the Judge page of the official website or the app (link is for browser), and you can vote once per day. (Technically twice if you use both the official website and the app). You can also just not vote if you don't feel like it. Again you can consume media in any way you want.
[*The localization actually says "Innocent" and "Guilty" instead of "Forgiven" and "Unforgiven", but keep in mind when you vote you're not voting innocence or guilt, but forgiveness and unforgiveness.]
The next of Jackalope's announcements is the "Report on the End of the First Trial", which only really tells you about how each prisoner was voted T1 (Trial 1), something you'll learn about in other videos anyways, so it's not too important beyond some characterization for Jackalope if you care.
However, before you start watching the Second Trial MVs, I would recommend you watch "Second Trial Commencement Notice", which will give you insight into how the verdicts affected each prisoner. The consequences weren't made very clear during the first trial, but this video establishes them a bit more explicitly.
2- Music Videos
Welcome to the main event! The music videos are the main draw of Milgram, and through vague symbolism, extremely fun visuals, beautifully written lyrics, and banger songs, they tell you things about each prisoner. Don't worry if you don't quite get them at first, they're really complex and understanding them is a community effort! Feel free to come to your own conclusions or read analyses or anything else!
Now, the order you watch these MVs in... there's really no set order, beyond "you should probably watch the First Trial videos before the Second and Third Trial ones." You can watch them following the prisoner order listed in that playlist I linked, but if there's a character you're particularly interested in, you can also just watch theirs before anyone else's. In my personal experience, I actually watched Amane's and Kazui's before anyone else's because their Second Trial Voting was going on, then hopped around between Shidou, Muu, Kotoko... until a month later I realized "wait I never actually watched This is How to be in Love With You" I am so sorry Mahiru-
My point is: Do what you want, experience Milgram at your own pace.
There is one exception, of an MV you should probably watch before the others, and that's Undercover. This is a video connected to Es, which serves as an introduction to all the other characters. There is a lot to talk about in this video, from Es' characterization to a lot of symbolism for the prisoners, but it's a great starting point to theorize on what exactly each prisoner's murder was.
In any case, these videos are probably the most important pieces of information for the prisoners, to the point some Milgram fans just watch the videos and nothing else, but there's still a lot more if you want to dig deeper.
3- Voice Dramas
In-universe, before the songs are extracted, Es holds an interrogation with the prisoners, which are the Voice Dramas (VDs). The exception is Es' own Voice Drama, which in typical Es fashion is an introduction which also has some interesting information.
If you want to fully put yourself in Es' shoes, you can watch a subtitled version/read a transcript of the VD before watching the MV for that Trial, which is the way they're ordered in the playlist I linked. But again, do what you want.
The only reason I'm only mentioning them after the MVs is that not everyone feels like watching/reading them in full, which is fine, but be careful, you might be missing some critical information. The things stated in VDs are maybe not always as revealing as the MVs, but they're usually more direct and offer great characterization, so I'd recommend at least reading transcripts. Although the voice acting is always on point, so listening to them is always a fun experience!
4- Interrogation Questions
During the course of the Trials, there comes a point when the fans are asked to send the prisoners questions, and a selection of them will be answered by them. Since the creators hand-pick the questions they actually want the prisoners to answer, they range from very interesting to "why the hell are we asking this?" level questions. They're very fun and add a lot of information and characterization to the prisoners!
They're usually done in prisoner duos, so 01-02 (Haruka and Yuno) get the same questions, then 03-04 (Fuuta and Muu) get a different set, etc. The exception for now is T1 Mikoto and Kotoko, because Kotoko's T1 MV was delayed, and it may happen again since Kotoko's T2 MV was also delayed (not confirmed yet).
5- Timelines
In the Milgram app, there will occasionally be updates to the "Timelines" tab, generally during prisoners' birthdays. These feature conversations between the prisoners, which range from extremely funny, very interesting, extremely depressing, etc. They help build up the dynamics between prisoners and are the origin of certain fan-favorite platonic pairings. They sometimes give hints to the prisoners' backstories, but usually they're more for characterization purposes. You can find links to translations of these timelines in the masterlink post I linked to before (thanks doctorbunny you're very cool).
6- Cover Songs
Every Trial, apart from their original song for Milgram, each prisoner gets to cover one song from DECO*27's catalogue. There is no official confirmation these songs are chosen for any reason other than "they sound cool" (which they do!), but as someone who's looked at all of them pretty closely... listen, a lot of them fit extremely well. I personally think they are important, but that's up for interpretation. Also Es had one for T1, Hibana.
These are not to be confused with the Es prisoner song covers, which are done as celebration for when an MV reaches a million views. They are released in hiatus periods, which is why at the time of writing there are no T2 Es covers. These are mostly just for fun, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of characterization hidden here. I haven't actually heard them all yet oops.
7- And a lot more!
Milgram never really runs out of ways to reveal lore. From distorted lines in the Character Voice Trailers, fun visuals in the "Songs of Prisoners" teasers, fun symbolism in promotional art such as the birthday cakes, album covers, etc etc... There's no real way I can compile it all, just be patient and take your time! Most of it isn't too important, so don't worry too much.
Again, take things at your own pace! Milgram is a really unique experience, and given how the story is presented, you can engage with it in the way that feels the most comfortable for you! Just make sure you're always having fun! Take care!
Post 4 fictional characters you relate to and assume something about the person you reblogged from based on their characters-
Was tagged by @candckirby
You probably come off as unapproachable or stoic on the outside but have a rich inner world and very deep emotions that you're struggling to fully communicate.
I got two of these characters in quizzes. I'm leaving it up to people to guess which two they are.
Anyone that wants to do this can but just to keep it going-
... I don't know any of the characters you posted help. From what I could gather thanks to reverse image search, I assume you come off as pretty cold to new people, but you're deeply passionate about the things you care about, and are willing to go to great lengths for them! Sorry if that's wrong (//_ _) Also, I'll guess you got Terra and Gilbert from quizzes maybe?
For my characters! Also here's the OG thread if anyone's interested.
Tags! No pressure though, you don't have to do this if you don't want to. If you want your tag removed just tell me! I'll try not to tag anyone who's been tagged before. @accirax @venus-is-thinking @sunlit-haruka @weightedblankettt @kyanako5972 And anyone else who wants to hop in!
