Hi! I heard about the AMA too late, but I wanted to ask: if a sailor only had daughters, they wouldn’t have inherited the correct type of DNA, right?
They test Y-DNA which passes from father to son, and mtDNA which passes from mother to child, so yes in terms of a sailor's children, only sons qualify. The daughter's won't have Y-DNA, and their mtDNA comes from their mother. So unfortunately any family lines descending from a sailor's daughter give us nothing!
Very early on when I started learning the whole genealogy thing I went into a fugue state and spent a day doing a maternal line for Charles Hamilton Osmer's daughter, and then woke up the next morning like 🤦♀️ well that was a waste of time
Hi I can’t believe I just found your blog and like, I’m positive this is gonna be just a ramble nothing ask but re: AB Robert Johns, I saw his name on your spreadsheet! And I can’t begin to express how important that is!! To me and to the family members! That’s an extremely personal connection there and yes I’m just ecstatic to see him there and that hopefully, one day, he can finally come home. Thank you for all the work you’re doing, it means so much <3
Thanks! It looks like I have Robert Johns marked down as having descendant DNA submitted by someone, but not having a match in the remains. But maybe some day there will be more remains found! Very cool to hear your connection to him
Another delightful edition of Christos mentioning Terror-related things on his radio show, including some BTS details that I hadn't known about!
Transcript:
While I was away on my three-week break from radio, I did get some messages in. Malcolm, regular listener Malcolm, Terror fan Malcolm* messaged me about— So basically, for those of you who don't know, I did a TV show called The Terror, and it was about the Franklin Expedition in 1845, which was a very doomed expedition. True story. The TV show that I did was a kind of supernatural twist to the true story of that expedition.
But they found, last week (I think it was last week), they found some of the bodies of the missing crew. And so, who did we find? They didn't find— My character is Hodgson. They didn't find Hodgson, unfortunately. Hodgson is still lost. But Peglar, Bridgens, Orren, and Young were found. And they tested— They found the remains and then traced the family DNA to, I think, relatives of those people who are still living now.
I'm sure this is all old news for the Terror fans who I know listen in, but I thought I'd give it a shoutout on the radio, since it's such amazing news. They were all members of the Erebus, because there's HMS Terror, which was a war ship, or originally a war ship, and then it became an expedition ship. And then there's HMS Erebus which was another ship. And these are the crew from Erebus. And I think they were found in Erebus Bay. So there you go, a bit of Terror information from the Franklin Expedition. Now let's carry on with some more music...
[Later on in the radio program]
But we have had a message in. I'm afraid it's a correction. I've made a mistake. I knew I shouldn't have got into this... Any details of The Terror, I'm gonna be a bit wrong, aren't I? So I got a message in from Aeriann [ @aeriann ]. Thanks for listening, Aeriann!
So, actually, Pelgar—Peglar, sorry! [laughs] I'm dyslexic, please don't judge me, Terror people! Um, he was on the same boat as me. [sighs] Oh no. he was on HMS Terror. He wasn't on Erebus. So I retract that. I'm very sorry.
And he is the first one to be identified on HMS Terror, god, really? I didn't know that! I suppose Terror was the— Bizarrely, they found the ship, HMS Terror, when we started filming. It was like the first couple of weeks, I think, we were filming.
Before we actually started filming— When was this? Might be wrong. I'm thinking October. We did these kind of like, exercises to sort of bond us all together. And there were these people who came to teach us what it was like to be on the boats, and we learned how to tie knots on the ship, and [laughs] craft things out of like, wicker and tie knots and do lots of things like that, and how to hold rifles. All the marines had a different sort of gang and they were taught how to shoot weapons.
But yeah, we had this sort of team bonding week to learn what it was like to be a sailor then. And that's sort of when they found HMS Terror, which was sort of weird really. It was strange.
*Fellow listener Malcolm, I'm so sorry I don't recognize your name! If you're reading this, please message me so I can credit you with your Tumblr! (And please come join our weekly Christos Radio Show Listening Party :3)
When the identifications were announced a couple people on reddit asked if I would do an AMA. So I now I have one up! If you have a reddit account and any questions, please pop over there and ask them!
When the identifications were announced a couple people on reddit asked if I would do an AMA. So I now I have one up! If you have a reddit account and any questions, please pop over there and ask them!
Greetings! Once again many, many congratulations on helping identify FOUR (!!!) of the members of the Franklin Expedition and solve the mystery of the Gladman Point skeleton at that. What an insane accomplishment!!
Out of morbid curiosity I was wondering whether it's public knowledge which of the men exactly have already been provided with suitable descendants for DNA testing. I've seen a few names dropped here and there but unfortunately nothing conclusive.
Thank you so much in advance and good luck for the future! It's absolutely amazing to see how much progress there has been in this field in the last two years only. One can only hope that there will be even more in the years to come :)
Thanks!
Good timing, I've been meaning to share my spreadsheet again! I just updated it today with the recent identifications.
I have a Franklin expedition genealogy starter spreadsheet here. I try to keep track of the people I'm researching, and the people I've seen others mention researching. The most recent public list of descendants who have taken a DNA test was from a paper in 2021, which included 18 members of the crew. The rest of the crew I have marked off on that spreadsheet come from comments and correspondence of me and others who have been doing genealogy.
I actually did get an updated list from Douglas Stenton on who's all had descendant DNA tested literally just a week ago, but I need to touch base with him again to make sure it's okay if I share it. I'll update the spreadsheet after if I can. But I will say that the number is 33 now, and the current spreadsheet is pretty accurate as is.
I hope there's more to come! I'm still doing it, though at a slower pace. I hope other people feel encouraged to try their hand at it too! If anyone reading this is interested in genealogy and my spreadsheet helps, please feel free to use it and share it around wherever.
Hello! First of all a MASSIVE congratulations on everything and I’m so happy you finally get to share everything! Genuinely massive kudos to you for lying to all of us so convincingly at Terror Camp being able to hold onto this for so long!
I’m still working my way through the Cambridge article and the rest of the publications so apologies if these are questions that you or Douglas Stenton answer there!
It was my understanding that (at least according to the wikipedia article which is not always the most reliable source) that the Canadian History Museum genuinely have just. Lost? Misplaced? the Gladman Point skeleton (now known to have been Peglar)? Any update on that front or were the DNA samples used in identification ones that were acquired prior to the misplacement?
Speaking of remains and whereabouts, what has been or is being done with the four that have now been identified? If you’ve been talking to descendants, do any of them now get to decide what happens going forward regarding reinterrment on KWI like I think I’ve heard has been done for other remains, or has that already happened? What’s the most respectful and proper way to move forward with the knowledge we now have and the fact that this happened almost 180 years ago?
Also, I’m super interested to hear more about the timeline for all of this if you’re able/willing to talk about it! You mentioned that you’ve had at least most of the information for like ten months now, were all four identifications confirmed within that period? Was it a matter of waiting to get news back regarding any of them before publishing anything rather than announcing each one as it was found out, or did they all happen so close together?
This is also just a request for you to be as absolutely obnoxious and insufferable about all of this as you fully deserve to be and say everything about it that you want to and are allowed to do now that the news is out!
Thanks! I'm very happy I did not accidentally spill the beans, because that was a real fear lol
It was my understanding that the Canadian History Museum genuinely have just. Lost? Misplaced? the Gladman Point skeleton...
Yeah Peglar's skeleton was lost and remains lost. It was first found by McClintock in 1859, then rediscovered in 1973 during a Canadian military training exercise. They removed it and sent to the museum, and then it has since disappeared. Douglas Stenton went back, found the original site again, and they were able to find a few small bones missed by the military, such as a metatarsal. The DNA samples came from those. Some of that is mentioned in the Cambridge article that you're still reading, but there's more on it in an earlier paper here if you want even more reading material haha
There's a picture of his skeleton from 1973 after a partial reassembly.
Finding “Harry Peglar”: Re-examining the discovery of a Franklin expedition sailor’s skeleton by the 1859 McClintock search expedition
Speaking of remains and whereabouts, what has been or is being done with the four that have now been identified?
To my knowledge the remains were re-interred in KWI after the DNA samples were first taken years ago. Except for teeth, which I think get destroyed in the DNA testing process. I don't really know a lot when it comes to interment and repatriation and all that. I know at some point Fabiënne Tetteroo had talked about the potential for repatriation when it came to James Fitzjames, and it sounded complicated. Especially since we're talking only about a couple of bones for each person, not a full skeleton.
Also, I’m super interested to hear more about the timeline for all of this...
I talk about the timeline in my blog here! I jump around a bit in the narrative, so if it helps, I found out about:
John Bridgens on July 19, 2025
David Young on August 15, 2025
William Orren on August 18, 2025
Harry Peglar on September 16, 2025
The initial paper was just Bridgens, but then it kept getting delayed because we kept getting positive matches! What a problem to have haha. After the Orren match we still had two DNA kits in transit, so we decided to just wait until they got back to submit it in case we got lucky again. And then we did with Peglar! But Peglar was significant enough that he got his own paper. Anyway my blog post goes into more detail on all of that, if you once again would like even more reading material 😉
now this may be a little silly to ask considering you're doing, like, incredibly important and stunning work that i know is going to be very different from anything I'd do as some random guy.
but I only as an adult reconnected with my late father's family, and was wondering if you had any information or anecdotes about genealogy and how you do it? There's two family trees I was given, both for the same branch of the family, one from 1787 to 1968, and one from 1860 to 1990. I'd love to fill out more of the families that married into ours and have no idea where to start (other than looking up each name online with growing desperation as everything is filled with ads and empty pages)
(also apart from all that genealogy is such a cool thing I always want to learn more about)
Thank you! And it's not silly at all! I am a Random Guy too, I just happen to be a Random Guy with an unusual hobby that got lucky 😆
It's hard to give general anecdotes about genealogy because there's a lot that differs depending on the country. I'm mostly more experienced in England, Australia and New Zealand right now. If you happen to be from one of those countries please let me know and I can try to give more specific suggestions haha. I've also done a tiny bit of Denmark, Canada, and Scotland.
Also since I start from around the 1840s and work my way down, it's a bit of a different process than starting from the relatives you know now and working you way up! I rely on navy records as a starting point too so that's also something kind of specific.
As a general suggestion: Ancestry.com is kinda expensive but unfortunately worth it. It has a lot of records in one place and searchable. So many people use it that you can look at other peoples' trees and get hints at what they think (always with a grain of salt because they can be wrong). Some libraries give free access to Ancestry, or if you have a FamilySearch centre nearby they do too. FamilySearch centres often also will provide in person help if you have questions -- they're run out the Mormon church which made me a little hesitant, but no one's ever tried to preach at me there, we've only ever talked about genealogy.
Ancestry and most other genealogy website will have birth/marriage/death indexes, which give a few details about the full record, and usually if you want the full record you have to purchase it. These are also called vital statistics. When you go far enough back there won't be government indexes/records anymore, so you have to look at parish records for baptisms/marriages/burials instead (in England, government records start in 1837). Census records are great but only go back so far, though not all countries have them or make them available. In England they're available starting 1841.
It gets harder the farther back you go; I try to find descendants from the sailor's siblings to avoid having to go back up a generation. If I can't find them from siblings, usually I move on to research someone else because I'm lazy. So most of my knowledge is from 1800 onward.
So for an example when I start out I'm looking at the records for a sailor. He might have a navy allotment in 1845 (when they set sail) that gives the name and address for a family member who he was sending part of his salary to. He probably has a probate related record that gives the name and address of a family member who inherited the estate in 1854 (when they were declared dead). I always google the guy too, because someone else might have researched him and his family already and I can piggyback off them as a starting point.
So say a sailor's estate went to a mother in 1854. I'll try and find her in the 1851 and 1861 England censuses at the listed address. Maybe I find her, and she's living with a husband and some other children. I'll try and find the baptisms for the sailor and the other children, to confirm they're all from the same parents and none are step-siblings. When I'm able to confirm to the best of my abilities that they are blood related, I'll start looking at the siblings. I'll search in Ancestry to see if they're in other censuses, or if they have marriage records, and then if they do I look for any baptisms or birth indexes with the parents names to find their children. And repeat with the children, just basically trying to trace a persons life in census records and birth/marriage/death indexes, and hopefully other records if I can find them, and see if what I put together makes sense.
You can also search for birth/marriage/death notices in newspapers. Some countries have free, searchable newspaper archives online (New Zealand and Australia). Others might have subscription based newspaper access (England). Obituaries are a great wealth of info if you can find them -- I struggle to in England, but people in Australia and New Zealand usually have them.
Probate info as well, i.e. who were the beneficiaries of an estate, is a huge help if you're able to access it. In England you used to be able to buy anyone's will for $3 CAD and I used it all the time doing genealogy, but just this year they changed it to $30 CAD so I'm not gonna do that anymore :( In other countries such as New Zealand they're free.
When you get close to the present a lot of records like birth/marriage/death indexes and censuses get locked down due to privacy, so it can be a little more difficult. This is where obituaries help the most. And also voter rolls/electoral register/electoral rolls/etc (what it's called differs by country) -- if you're registered to vote, your name and address are on a list somewhere. Any Albertans reading this probably know this pretty well right now. Historical voter rolls are on genealogy websites a lot of the time. Or if you're in England, they don't really seem to care about privacy so indexes and voter rolls are online up until the last year or so. But anyway, you can use voter rolls to see who people are living with, so e.g. if you're trying to find if someone had kids when birth indexes are private, you can look at the parents in the voter rolls 18+ years after they married, and see if anyone new pops up at that address.
Findmypast is also a good genealogy website, mostly if you're in the UK. Some countries have their own searchable genealogical records websites, like Scotland. FamilySearch is a free genealogy website; they don't have as many records as Ancestry, but their fulltext search is able to parse through unindexed records which is huge.
Hopefully some of this helps! There's a genealogy subreddit so searching for your country + "where to start" there might help, too (as well as just google searching that).
Do you- do you regularly communicate with Douglas Stenton? THE Douglas Stenton? Just causally send the leading world expert on Franklin expedition archaeology and discoverer of HMS Erebus a quick message? I think I’d faint if I was lucky enough to be in the same room as him, let alone talk to him!
(This is said with awe and a little bit of fear)
He's the lead of the study trying to ID Franklin expedition remains through descendant DNA, so in my ongoing genealogy hobby of the last 1.5 years where I try to find descendants of members of the expedition I've been in regular-ish communication with him over email, yeah 😅 Though the only reason I brought it up was that were already talking about genealogy stuff, otherwise I wouldn't specifically reach out just to ask that (I assume even in semi-retirement he's a busy man and I'd feel bad bothering him just for that lol)
The man has an Order of Canada and I'm Just Some Guy, it's a crazy world haha
We were doing zoom calls with the descendants the last two weeks so they could ask questions, so I had asked Douglas Stenton about the conference between meetings.
Harry Peglar is a first in many ways! First to be identified from the Simpson Strait area (all others identified were from Erebus Bay sites NgLj-1, 2, and 3), he's the first crew member of HMS Terror to be identified, and saddest of all, he's the only crew member thought to have died alone.
