An Interview with Wang Guangyi (in English and Chinese)
In the current AMAM exhibition Conversations: Past and Present in Asia and America, a painting titled Chanel (below) by Chinese contemporary artist Wang Guangyi is on view. To demonstrate Wangâs âconversationsâ with art and artists from the past, Chanel is paired with an anonymous propaganda poster from the Cultural Revolution, Thoroughly Criticize Lin Biao and Confucius!, and a lithograph titled Crak! by Roy Lichtenstein, one of the leading figures in the Pop Art movement in the US.
Wang Guangyi first gained wide critical acclaim with his Great Criticism series, which included Chanel. The works juxtaposed propaganda imagery from the Cultural Revolution with brand names and motifs from Western advertising, which were flooding into China during the Reform Era of the 80s and 90s. Like Pop Art, Wang appropriated elements of mass-produced commercial advertising; however, by adding exaggerated, heroic figures from political posters he slyly suggests that advertising and propaganda are equally manipulative. Recently, Zimeng Xiang, the AMAM Student Curatorial Assistant in Asian Art, interviewed the artist.
* Below, you can find a transcription of the interview in Chinese.Â
WĂĄng GuÇngyĂŹ çćčżäč (Chinese, b. 1956), Chanel, from the Great Criticism series, 1994, oil on canvas, 149.2 x 119.7 cm. Oberlin Friends of Art Fund, 2001.20. Allen Memorial Art Museum
Q: The shift from your early works in Northern Art Group to the Great Criticism series was extraordinary. What was the change in your opinions on art that caused such a huge shift? What triggered such a change in your mind?
Wang Guangyi çć»ŁçŸ©, Post-Classical: Gospel of Matthew, 1986, Oil on canvas, 100cm x 100cm. (Fig. 1)
A: My works created before the shift of my focus had almost nothing to do with my life experience. They were just my imaginary issues: the Post-Classical series (1986) was my own correction to the classical culture and the Frozen North Pole series (1985) was about an imaginary ânorthern cultureâ. Not until I started painting Mao (1988,1989) did my artistic practice begin to mature; not until then did I realize what was really connected to my life experience and my educational background.
Wang Guangyi çć»ŁçŸ©, Waving Mao Zedong, 1989, Oil on canvas, 150cm x 120cm. (Fig. 2)
Apart from that, the formation of the Great Criticism series was somehow accidental as well. Despite the poor artistic qualities of propaganda images made by amateur painters during the cultural revolution, I used to find in them a unique kind of power which I wished to exploit in my works. I enlarged and copied one of those images of workers, peasants and soldiers onto a canvas, setting it in the corner, and had no idea how to deal with it. Several days later, I happened to have a chance to drink a can of Coke. This was in those days when lots of Western consumer products (such as Coca-Cola and Marlboro cigarettes) had just entered China, but coke was still a âluxuriousâ drink. Incidentally, I set the Coke can on the ground, suddenly coming up with some interesting ideas.
Since the Great Criticism series, my attention shifted from the form to the imagery itself. The form is entangled with art historical contexts and elements of individualization, which I was trying to get rid of. I tried to free art from the hands of artists, to make it possess more powerâthe power that came from people as well as the leader. In the Post-Classical series, with the aid of old masters I told a myth about art history; in Maoâs portraits, with the aid of photography and printing presses I told a myth about the leader; in the Great Criticism, with the aid of people I told a myth about people.
Q: The Bold outlines and exaggerated figures of the Great Criticism series bring to mind a series of Cultural Revolution-era posters, such as âThoroughly Criticize Lin Biao and Confucius!â (ca. 1970), that are themselves reminiscent of the work of the Modern Woodcut Movement of the 1920s-1940s. Were you referencing either of these in your series, or Cultural Revolution imagery more broadly?
A: Yes, I was referencing the Cultural Revolution-era posters. Basically the prototypes of the Great Criticism series are such imagery created by the âpeopleâ. I was juxtaposing these two kinds of imagery coming from different erasâfigures of workers, peasants and soldiers, and images from imported advertisements that had permeated contemporary life.
Wang Guangyi çć»ŁçŸ©, Great Criticism: Coca-Cola, 1990-93, Oil on canvas, 200cm x 200cm. (Fig. 3)
Q: How did you feel about the widespread propaganda posters during the 60s and the 70s when you were young? What was the impact that the swelling consumer culture brought to your life in the 90s? How did you come up with the combination of propaganda images and Western commercial advertisements?
A: The cultural revolution lasted only for ten years, during which Chinese people subverted politics, as well as history and art. We lived in a political metaphysics. Elimination was regarded as creation. Chaos was believed to be order. The Cultural Revolution is usually understood as a mythmaking movement, but I consider it more like a kind of Dadaism. This is Maoâs political metaphysicsâa unity of mythmaking and Dada. Under the influence of such metaphysics, we embraced the negative, with an unprecedented audacity, as if they are actually the positive. A particular image system was built when the practice of âGreat Criticismâ was invented. As the Cultural Revolution ended and Maoâs utopia vanished, commodity fetishism became popular in China where true religious belief was submerged. Chinese speedily switched to another image systemâa system about signs of consumerism. Everything but my cognitive system was changing dramatically. I was trying to look for a meaning behind the conflicts between my haunting memories and this burgeoning new imagery.
Q: The whole series of Great Criticism includes both prints and oil paintings. Is there any difference in ideas between works made in these two kinds of media?
A: They express the same idea, just different in the ways they could be spread.
Q: Could you tell us about how you created those strings of numbers on the painting Chanel and other special techniques you applied?
A: I stamped those numbers. I also used an altered traditional glazing technique.
Q: Besides the Great Criticism series, many of your other works, such as the sculpture series Materialist made in around 2002 and the painting series Methodology of Peopleâs War made in 2004, also make reference to images from woodblock prints made in the Great Leap Forward or Cultural Revolution period. Why are you interested in employing images and visual effects originally generated for reproducible media in your works that were made in non-reproducible media?
Wang Guangyi çć»ŁçŸ©, Materialists, 2001-2002, Sculpture (Fiberglass and Millet), Approximately 180cm x 120cm x 60cm. (Fig.4)
A: There was a transformation happening there when I modulated and recreated the existing prints. Through such a process of transformation, artists would amplify or even distort the original meanings of the material. My Great Criticism series tended to flatten and simplify (the source material) by removing those medium tones in colors and shadings. It might relate back to the original image style of âGreat Criticismâ, which was redolent of woodblock prints, but I indeed intentionally pursued that kind of effect in my later works. Plenty of Cultural Revolution imagery, including some of those propaganda images, retained more or less some sense of space; those were created by professional artists, in a Soviet art style. However, they simplified the forms to make images speak to people. I call that a thorough conceptualization. Interestingly, it is exactly those conceptualized images that possessed a unique power.
Q: Because of your Great Criticism series, many critics and art historians consider you as the founder of Chinese Political Pop art. What do you think of such an identity (or rather, label)? Did it have any unexpected effect on your later artistic practice? Do you think that it might restrict the ways viewers read your works?
A: Of course, my Great Criticism series should belong to the category of Pop art, whereas my Pop art has probably included some issues related to politics and ideologies. Pop art is defined as a popular art concerning mass culture, but to a country like China, the most âpopularâ would be politics.
It certainly had some impact (on my later artistic practice), both positive and negative, but this was not something that could be determined according to my individual will. My works and my words became productions of the world of pop as soon as they left me. Maybe that is the reason why contemporary art approaches everyoneâs life so closely. Contemporary art seems to be a reconstruction of the synchronic experience of the public. It involves everyone and forces them to participate, like a huge âgameâ. At first glance, they are unsure about what exactly this game is, in the same way as they are about the evening news on television. But one thing is clear: contemporary art always reminds the public of a most basic matterâboth news and games lead us to real life.
Q: In a previous interview, you mentioned that âthe core of art is something spiritualâ. Could you choose one word to describe the âspiritâ of contemporary Chinese art? What do you think is the biggest difference between the âspiritâ of contemporary Chinese art and that of â85 New Wave?
A: The only way I could talk about â85 New Wave is from my own experience of it. History is just a random product. When we were actively participating in â85 New Wave, we had no idea that it would be eventually remembered this way after thirty years. Whatâs more valuable and substantial is the process of re-thinking the spirits and thoughts of those individuals involved in this piece of history. As far as Iâm concerned, it was still a great period of time back in the 1980s, when my numerous dreams and imaginings about art were constructed during those salad days of mine. â85 New Wave offered me a starting pointâa point that related to my feelings about Shamanism in the northern area where I grew upâof my artistâs career. All those major themes of Shamanismâpantheism, mysteries, agnosticism and indeterminacyâstill mean a lot to me. Today I still believe that we are agnostic about art, and what artists express are no doubt some kinds of thoughtsâbut such thoughts are indeterminate.
Q: Most Western audiences nowadays as well as Chinese students of my generation would probably not respond to your âGreat Criticismâ series as you expected since they did not have the same experience that people of your generation had during the Cultural Revolution, either as participants or foreign spectators. What kind of role would you like your work to play at AMAM, a Western academic art museum? What kind of impact would you like it to have on students of my generation?
A: Essentially, China is a somewhat utopian country. In its long history, the shifts in state power influenced people profoundly. Nowadays such influences are gradually fading away from the memories of younger generations, but something remains the sameâsomething that has never changed except that the way it happens may be different now. Since the early years during which I was born, Iâve had strong feelings that the state was trying to brainwash people with its utopian ideas through propaganda imagery. Meanwhile, when I finally grew up and became an artist, I found that in some Western, developed countries, the state power was used to stimulate peopleâs ardor for commodity fetishism. As an artist having these two mechanisms superposed, I stood in the intermediate realm, presenting the result to audiences of different ages from different places. As for the role I would like my work to play at a Western academic art museum, I wish that it could guide audiences to learn about issues Iâve been interested in, issues that essentially transcend the concept of nation and time.
Wang Guangyi çć»ŁçŸ©, The Last Supper, 2011, Oil on canvas, 1600cm Ă 400cm. (Fig. 5)
Q: Images of Western political or religious leaders, as well as Christian icons, started to emerge in your works after 2010. What are your major ideas behind these recent works? Earlier you said that you are more interested in expressing collective notions rather than personal feelings in your works, and that your works are usually created by âthe publicâs handsâ. What are the collective notions that you would like to convey in these recent works?
A: Those works are from the New Religion series. About this series, earlier I said, âThe presence or absence of various rituals, icons, relics and commandments, etc., are not something we are able to control. We can only obtain a sense of historyâs existence through the figurative reproduction of memories. We looked at everything, but from the backside. We observed the existing human civilization, but with a veil covering on it. Since our childhood, weâve been exposed to all kinds of things by accident. Those things are like negative films that will re-emerge once they are activated, again, by accident, at some point. Today everyoneâs life is affected by such ânegative filmsâ carrying a certain density of time and memories which would influence the way we see the world.â What I mean by âcollective notionâ is that my works rarely involve issues that only I, an individual, have been faced with; instead, they concern issues that most of us have been faced with.
Q: Could you tell us about what you are working on currently (or where you are among different stages of the art making process)?
A: Currently, Iâm preparing for a show that will take place in Wuhan this November (2016), and the other one in Prague next year (2017). Both of them will present my works from different time periods as well as those made most recently.
Regarding my recent thoughts on art making, Iâm trying to find the source of all my artistic practice. Last year (2015), I made a new installation The Origin of the Gods through which I connected other works of mine, including those made in the early period. This work could be related back to my childhood experience in the northern area. When northern kids are sick, they would probably be sent to a shaman instead of a doctor. I thought this was nothing more than superstition when I was young, but as I grew up, I found that behind such a phenomenon there is a particular significance of those original religions, which interested me a lot.
Such habits came from the legacy of Northern Shamanism which originated from Northern China, Northern Russia and some European areas, but mainly Northern China. To some extent, what we are faced with are so-called âreligiousâ mattersâBuddhism and Christianity undoubtedly came from foreign areas; only Shamanism is indigenous. Curious about it, I wanted to find its root, the most basic thing about our spiritual life.
What that is in my works, in which I tried to find that ârootâ, is exactly an attitude of Pantheismâan emphasis on accidental encounters rather than assigning everything their unique values. As Iâve mentioned before, if someone was tripped up by a rock when walking at night and the next morning he found that the rock had actually saved his life by keeping him from falling down the cliff, this rock would be his saviorâfrom a Pantheistâs perspective. This sounds very interesting to me. Pantheism regards everything around you, such as rocks, ropes, crows and other things we could encounter in our daily life, as potential saviors; accompanying inadvertent circumstances, it determines whether this particular thing would show such a value and meaning. If we look at Western civilization from a Pantheistâs perspective, we would find that this rock, in absolute terms, is the same as what Nietzsche has said in Ecce Homo.
Interview transcription in Chinese:
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Fig. 1. WĂĄng GuÇngyĂŹ, Chanel, from the Great Criticism series, 1994, Oil on canvas, 149.2 x 119.7 cm. Oberlin Friends of Art Fund, 2001.20. Allen Memorial Art Museum, http://allenartcollection.oberlin.edu/emuseum/view/objects/asitem/id/11046 (accessed February 7, 2017).
Fig. 2. Wang Guangyi, Post-Classical: Gospel of Matthew. 1986, Oil on canvas, 100 cm x 100 cm. Asia Art Archive, Hong Kong. From: Asia Art Archive, http://www.aaa.org.hk/Collection/CollectionOnline/Details/29792 (accessed February 6, 2017).
Fig. 3. Wang Guangyi, Waving Mao Zedong. 1989, Oil on canvas, 150 cm x 120 cm. Asia Art Archive, Hong Kong. From: Asia Art Archive, http://www.aaa.org.hk/Collection/CollectionOnline/SpecialCollectionItem/12153 (accessed February 6, 2017).
Fig. 4. Wang Guangyi, Great Criticism: Coca-Cola. 1990-93, Oil on canvas, 200 cm x 200 cm. Asia Art Archive, Hong Kong. From: Asia Art Archive, http://www.aaa.org.hk/Collection/CollectionOnline/Details/29830 (accessed February 6, 2017).
Fig. 5. Wang Guangyi, Materialists. 2001-2002, Sculpture (Fiberglass and Millet), Approximately 180 cm x 120 cm x 60 cm. Asia Art Archive, Hong Kong. From: Asia Art Archive, http://www.aaa.org.hk/Collection/CollectionOnline/Details/29864 (accessed February 6, 2017).