Thank you for your incredibly detailed analytics on Emet-Selch and the Love themes of the Lightwardens. I found it incredibly enlightening and look forward to more analytics from you in the future. I really do feel for Emet-Selch. I hope in the future we are able to find a solution that saves everybody even though I know that isn't likely a possibility or a realistic one for that matter:( Either way, keep up the great work and keep fighting the good fight weary traveler!
*Squawking noises* NO, THANK YOU!
This blog kinda blew up and I’m just? So happy?
I can’t wait to look into the next patch story. :)
Anon here and your response was amazing! Thank you for taking the time to answer it. I agree with your interpretation, especially of the last moments when he saw his old friend. :( thanks again!
You now own 4 and a half hours of my life. I don’t regret it. Thank you for giving me the motivation to do it. :)
Here we come to the ending. I’m sorry for the long wind up, but it’s almost over now.
For this last post we’ll need to look at his body language and consider a few things not explicitly stated.
First let’s look at great girl Alisaie.
Look at his face. This is a man who knows. He could crush her in an instant, but just bats her away, no lasting damage.
Look at this petulance. Arms crossed, facing to the side, he may as well have said “Hmph!” These are words to provoke. He doesn’t even look at them while he insults their existence.
Look at the past 3 panels. He goes from grinning to frowning in seconds. No need for heroes? What happened to “You for whom I have only the highest expectations.” What happened to sacrificing half of yourselves to be heroes?
And there it is. He’s tired of tragedy. He says it himself in the Crystarium. “Long have I awaited one who might brave a path of lesser tragedy.”
Again he has been failed. We cannot contain the Light. WoL isn’t strong enough.
Go back and watch this scene. He never opens his eyes as he says this. He’s not looking at WoL. Has he been speaking to WoL at all? Reread those last two panels. Is he speaking to himself?
“The Light will not be denied.” If WoL will not contain it, it will consume them.
“Surrender to your fate” He is convinced WoL cannot contain it alone.
“the land which is rightfully ours” But this? Why this?
Emet-Selch is a man bent on Rejoining the First to the Source right? Then why does he care who this shard belongs to? Probably because he can go back to his lonely version of Amaurot, but that’s not the point here.
Now we finally (and I’m sorry it’s taken so long) get to the point of the ask.
"It’s strange cause earlier on he says we are seven times rejoined, but he seems shocked at seeing the amaurotine in our place and passes it off as a trick of the light.“
Emet-Selch is a man of muted expressions to be sure, but here in this one instance, I don’t see shock. I see hope. Hope that maybe, beyond all odds, WoL had contained the Light and ascended into his old Amaurotine friend. We know that Amaurotine people contained immense and unfathomable amounts of aether in their bodies. Aether in the form of Light that WoL has been absorbing the entire journey. If we follow the belief that Emet-Selch could see Ardbert, then the soul of WoL would have become more vibrant after joining. One fragment closer to complete. That much more saturation in the hue of color comprising WoL’s soul. In that moment I see Emet-Selch’s fleeting hope that maybe this had been enough. That maybe he finally had one more of his own people, even still fragmented. But it’s not enough, WoL can’t be the hero he needs to brave a less tragic path, so he’d just as soon have no hero at all, and rather than experience the feeling of hopelessness again he brushes it off as a trick of the light.
Now we get to the anon ask. Sorry for all the back story, but it’s important that we’re all on the same page here.
Let’s move on to the speech he throws us during our Amaurot confrontation.
He is passionate, he has conviction, but during none of this does he look truly angry. WoL has failed him again and again, but still he is not angry. Disappointed, frustrated, emotional even, but he isn’t mad. All we have done is prove to him that he was right not to rely on anyone but himself. The problem here is the WoL. We are told to the face we’re just not good enough, and yet, this is our body language:
This isn’t the face of someone ready to fight the good fight. The WoL is sad. WoL pities Emet-Selch. Unable to contain the Light, unwilling to succumb, WoL feels the utter failure to save Emet-Selch.
Then good boy Alphinaud says a few words and finally we see Emet-Selch truly angry.
And this is the line that brings us closer to the knowledge that he knows.
All of the exchanges we have with Emet-Selch and not once do we see this face. But one line from someone he views as unworthy? He’s mad. He’s livid.
And we’re almost done.
Let us now look at the conversation from the top of the Ladder. Again we see him unguarded.
Why would he even mention ‘remembering’ if there was any doubt we hadn’t been there to experience it the first time around. At this point, even if you want to argue he’s not sure who we are, he’s definitely onto what we are. However I still believe he knows exactly who we are.
Something to keep in mind at this point is that he is very curious about the Crystal Exarch.
And then, when we confront him in Amaurot, if you tell him you’ve come for the Exarch, he gives you these lines.
This is a back up plan. There’s no other way around it. The problem here being; why does he need a back up plan in the first place if he’s so certain the WoL will succumb to the Light? Emet-Selch relying on an “incomplete?” Doubtful. But then that raises another question. Why would he, who has judged the Source so harshly, expect the WoL to be able to contain the Light?
Part 1/Part 2/Part 3/Part 4/Part 5
The second conversation is a small snip from his visit to the Crystarium.
This moment is one of the closest we get to a real smile. Something beyond the usual sulking or smugness. He is earnestly asking, as best he can, for another option.
Part 1/Part 2/Part 3/Part 4/Part 5
Everyone seems to be saying that Emet-Selch knew all this time that we were an old friend, but it seems like the thought only came to him at the last moment when Ardbert rejoined with our soul? It’s strange cause earlier on he says we are seven times rejoined, but he seems shocked at seeing the amaurotine in our place and passes it off as a trick of the light. So did he know we were an old friend or not?
Oh man oh boy I hope you’re ready for this. I’d been planning on discussing this eventually anyway, and it’s a loooong one. Bear with me, we’ll need some prior analysis before jumping into my conclusions on YES. YES I BELIEVE EMET-SELCH KNEW FROM VERY EARLY ON.
So let us start at the conversation with Hythlodaeus.
Emet-Selch. Distracted? Here I believe he’s actually using Hythlodaeus as a tool for exposition. As a close friend, who better to reveal the past to a hero when Emet-Selch himself cannot? IMO Hythlodaeus is created special on purpose to fill in as the story teller for the history Emet-Selch wants so desperately to tell.
Some of the Amaurotine had already died before Zodiark was ever summoned. Imagine the panic a race of nearly immortal beings were experiencing when their friends and family started dying.
The Amaurotine didn’t just LIVE on the Source Star, they watched over and created many of the other life forms. (This is further discussed in the Akademia dungeon.)
This is plainly spoken. The goal to bring back the dead wasn’t about reuniting for the sole purpose of reuniting. They fully intended to resume their roles as guardians for the Source. Mind here that this also says “a portion of it’s living energy,” not lives, not all living beings, a portion of energy. Plants? Animals? This is sounding a lot more “Spirit Bomb” style than genocide.
This may still be left open to interpretation, but to me it reads as the dissidents believing the time of Amaurot had passed and the new lives no longer needed stewards.I believe this is the case because of the use of the phrase “this new world should belong to the lives newly born.” Ownership. Not just living on the Source, but inheriting it.
Here I believe we are being told that Emet-Selch allowed himself to be tempered. He is the CHAMPION for the will of Zodiark. This is no longer about being stewards of the Source, this is him wanting his people back. “By whatever means is necessary.”
Here we are told only Hythlodaeus can see WoD, but almost immediately told Emet-Selch can recognize the color of [”her/his”] soul. The soul that WoD also shares. The soul with a hue so distinctive, it is unmistakable no matter how thin. I believe Emet-Selch could see Ardbert.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~With that out of the way, there are a few very important exchanges, IMO, that make it plain Emet-Selch knows who WoL is. Part 1/Part 2/Part 3/Part 4/Part 5
To add to this, I’m going to add in descriptions for the Triple Triad cards for the dungeon fights, as they always add a slight bit of additional backstory to the fights. (Taken from a collection tracker website as I don’t have them all yet)
I wish there was a way to save Emet-Selch instead of killing him. Like, I haven't been this emotionally upset over a freaken character for years but here I am.
So I’ll be real, I don’t truly believe he’s dead. Or at least, not in a completely permanent way. Yes yes, Elidibus said. But also, consider. No.
Okay but really we still have allll those clones back on the Source, and would it really be past him to pull such a dramatic fake out death to test the WoL one last time? Especially with all the hints dropped that he knew we were different way before then. Part of me honestly thinks we killed a portion of him, and he’ll show back up weaker, worse for wear, but not dead. Because if there’s one thing we’ve learned from SE, we can’t even trust someone to be dead when they’re buried.
Aside, yes. I have cried daily since it happened. I can’t do EX roulette because the two times I’ve gotten that dungeon since I’ve been too upset to heal properly.
Because I need something happy before I go to bed, here’s the first screenshot I took when we finally got to interact with him. I was so excited that they let us talk to him I couldn’t even be bothered to apply my glamour. I love that his posture makes him look so very confused by the smiling.
The file name is “Why Look At The Camera When We Can Look At Each Other”
I’ve started writing up all my thoughts on the Lightwardens and there’s a lot.
Sorry, not sorry?
Big spoilers under the cut.
While playing through the game, I began to notice the Lightwardens were named after some of the seven types of love according to the ancient Greeks.
Philia, Eros, and Storge.
Unnamed are Philautia, Pragma, Ludus, and Agape.
At first I connected a corrupted Philautia to Vauthry/Innocence, and Pragma to Titania, with Emet-Selch as Ludus, and finally the WoL being Agape. But after a few days of contemplation and replaying some of the MSQ through Unending Journey I think maybe I've stumbled upon something else.
Philia, the brotherly love of friends and platonic bonding through rough times, is the first Lightwarden we defeat. This on the heels of Tesleen's tragedy, and the burden Alisaie carries of promises to help those left behind, both on the First, and the Source.
Pragma is next I think. I believe Titania is meant to be a stand in for the love connected with rational and reason. It is not a romantic love, but a love that provides benefits for those involved. Before her transformation, Titania cared for her subjects as they cared for her. This is also where we meet Urianger for the first time since leaving the Source. An Elezen who hides from intimate friendships and closeness with the WoL and other Scions, keeping secrets and preferring to do things alone, because he knows they must be done, rather than telling us hard truths up front. Because to him, this is the most reasonable course of action.
Following is Eros. Romantic, passionate, and sexual love. The setting is in the Great Rak'tika Wood with, what in my opinion is, a very fitting music theme. We meet "The Night's Blessed," we find Y'shtola. We see Emet-Selch's first true act of good faith since joining us. I find it maybe too coincidental that this is the only instance of nudity during 5.0. Then the way Runar cradles Y'shtola...
Storge is a familial love. I don't think I need to make much of a case here, as this happens in the exact thick of the plot between Thancred, Ryne, and Ran'jit.
Philautia is self-love. I believe Vauthy/Innocence is a corruption of this. Narcissism and the belief that what he is doing for himself will ultimately be the best for everyone. Vauthry is the opposite of Alphinaud's journey to become the best version of himself. We see Alphinaud recognize and admit how he was very much like Vauthry before he "grew up" and decided to strive to become better for both himself and everyone he hoped to save.
Ludus has had several meanings, but among them are "playful," "game," and "sport." Ludic love is selfish, demands attention, and can lead to secrets and lies, especially if one believes there are advantages to be gained from it. In my opinion this applies to two men. Emet-Selch, and G'raha Tia/Crystal Exarch.
Exarch is very honest in his desire to adventure with the WoL, but is also quite closed off about who he is, what his plans are, and how he means to achieve them until very close to the end. He calls WoL his inspiration, laments over not being able to spend more time with them, but purposely has Urianger lie to suit his own ends. Yes, these ends are for the good of WoL and the Source, but secrecy is secrecy.
Emet-Selch, while never lying to the WoL, keeps a lot of secrets until very close to the end too. A self-admitted manipulator, Emet-Selch is open to a point, but only if it serves his greater purpose. From one of the earliest 5.0 scenes, we see him looking at the developing situations almost as a game. "There's more than one way." Whether his feelings towards WoL change over the course of the story or not, his end game doesn't change. He wants his world back and everything can burn if he gets it. I'd also point out that this man demands attention, almost all the time. Oh sure he'll tell you not to bother him, but he's just oh so ready to talk every time you pop up.
*****Ludus will be expanded in another post when I’m less tired. There’s so much to say about G’raha Tia and Emet-Selch*****
And then, finally, we have Agape. It's easy to place this on WoL. A selfless, altruistic love. Unbreakable. Unconditional. Committed. The WoL, like Agape, is undying, full of compassion, and always ready to give more than receive. But so, as we find through the story, was WoD. No small surprise that we are pieces of the same soul. Not without faults, Agapic lovers can be taken advantage of, and risk suffering inattention to their own needs. Think of how long our WoL was willing to carry the burden of Light. How willing the WoD was to martyr himself along with the others for Minfilia's efforts to stop the flood.
It’s also very interesting to me that the Lightwardens are named after types of love when the Sin Eaters are literally named Forgiven, because what is the greatest love if not forgiveness?
There's probably more. But. These are my thoughts, and I hope maybe you've enjoyed them.
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