OPLA Sanji trying to charm Zoro through flirting because that's how he befriends people VS Zoro getting angrier and angrier the more Sanji smiles at him. Hilarious dynamic.
It's definitely a choice to say OPLA Sanji was weaker in s2 was weak whe everyone got nerfed. In the Manga Zoro defeated those 100 agents offscreen and then fought Luffy no sweat no problem. Luffy didn't struggle with his fights. Sanji only struggle was against Smoker who none of them can defeat right now. Like Mr. 13 complaints ok valid but other than that meh. He was injured in that last fight and tech did the finishing move of both Wapol's right hand men plut helped Luffy.
You know as I watched the Mr. 13 fight I thought to myself "Although they are playing this for comedy, it's gonna start idiotic discourse". And yep!
I actually wish they just let him easily kill him quickly and gave the comic relief to another character so we didn't have to hear about this for like a solid year. But anywho here's a gif of Sanji snapping a T Rex's neck with a single kick.
my two cents on this is i really dont mind seeing him struggle a bit in fights where he’s out of his depth because i enjoy seeing the resilience that it highlights; the refusing to give up and eventually coming out on top even though he’s hurt and tired because that still shows now strong he is; winning against opponents who are more trained than he is or stronger and so on. where’s the harm is showing how deadly an opponent that is is inevitably to win against is. to me it reads as “this guy was strong, maybe even stronger that sanji but sanji won anyway”
if every fight is won with ease and the villain never stands a chance it gets a bit boring and repetitive. obviously you know who is going to win but even the illusion of stakes by making sanji (or whoever it is fighting) struggle a bit makes it more interesting to watch imo
last point i have is specific to sanji and it’s about the fact that he has never fought enemies on this scale like this before. he’s strong, always has been, and fights on the same level strength and skill wise as zoro and luffy but he just has less practical experience in life or death situations against highly trained assassins like what we see in s2. he kicked ass on baratie but that was against run of the mill pirates nowhere near his physical level so yeah he struggles a bit more than the devil fruit user who has an automatic advantage and a bounty hunter who has been training more rigidly for longer and who has fought more dangerous opponents more often when against, as previously mentioned a highly trained assassin. it’s a similar thing we’re going to see with nami in s3; she is out of her depth because she isn’t used to facing opponents of this calibre, as strong and capable as she is.
yes they played mr 13 for comedic affect (sue me i think it’s funny and still enjoyed that fight) but idk sue me again for enjoying watching a characters skills grow and evolve as they face more dangerous threats that force them to really push themselves as fighters as the show goes on. and mind you the other bw agents are afraid of the unluckies they are a huge threat
and also he broke a t-rex’s neck with a kick what do you mean he’s weak
tldr struggles in fights make then more interesting because of the even tiniest illusion of stakes and provide good opportunities for subtle development in a character
Yeah I just answered another Ask about this is longer detail but this truly truly does not matter in the slightest.
Everyone is nerfed for the medium. Most of the time, especially is western media, the hero gets beat up like the whole story until they finally win. It's honestly like a staple in storytelling here and for better or worse OPLA is aimed at Western audiences. They want to see the characters overcome something. Everyone struggled a lot more in s2 IMO and it was what I expected. I mean it's the grandline and stakes are supposed to be higher. Ms. Friday and Mr. 13 were a actual threat. Sis had a machine gun and noone but Luffy is bullet proof. And to your point of Sanji beating opponents that are stronger than him... yeah he totaly did because he was fully injured during that entire last episode. He was not at 100% and Luffy actually does this throughout the whole Manga. Many of the people he defeats are objectively stronger but he just never gives up.
Also like you said Sanji was in a restaurant for the past like 10 years. He was having fights with customers etc but he wasnt a pirate Hunter or off looking for trouble like Luffy.
I simply don't agree that becuase Zoro and Sanji are evenly matched rivals that they should be measured the same. They are wildly different from each other in how they do things even if their results are the same. Just looking at their dreams and their lives up to this point even. Sanji first and formost is a chef his fighting skills come from natural talent not hard work. Zoro has never spent a moment of his life where he wasnt training to be stronger. That's his entire thing, it's his dream, his hobby, and even his job on the crew. In what world would he not have way more fights and by conquence ~feats~ when fighting is all he does does. Versus the guy whose just trying to learn recipes and flirt with every human with a pulse (I'd say women but he was flirting with EVERYONE in s2 my God chill out you freak). The direct comparisons based on fights in crazy does everyone realize he's the chef of the crew or no? He killed that T Rex and immediately started yapping about recipes like that wasn't some Superman type shit. How are you even that strong Sanji WTF?!
But yeah IDK what else to say. Sanji is not like Luffy and Zoro and that's not shade. Like Enies Lobby yes he saved Usopp and Nami but that's after he gave Usopp a very important pep talk that Zoro would have never thought to give. Sanji brings heart and strategy and intuition he also happens to be really really talented at fighting. Imagine if he actually cared and started training...but he doesnt really care.
All that being said I'm side-eying Powerscalers for ignoring the T Rex feat. If they were serious about raw strength being the most important part of the show why do they ignore it? SUS
With OPLA and “they made Sanji weaker” and power scaling in general the biggest problems are:
1) many fights are more abstract or gag based in drawn media and as soon as your actors are squishy humans you have a different suspension of disbelief and “acceptance” of strength
2) OPLA tried to also appeal to non shogun (that’s the word right) audience who has a different definition of strength and especially season 2 feels very handholding already trying to convince that part of the audience kicks can be deadly
3) “real people” tv deals with stakes a bit differently. Rising action and fall etc. If nobody ever loses the audience stops caring. The rules than are “oh nothing will happen” and it feels soon empty. Even the illusion of a threat with promised ending catches the audience more than a consequenceless world. And the audience become desensitized soon too. You need to be clear with rules of strength and damage even more live action. Fights are cool but average tv audiences isn’t here to see the best guy ever but for the tension and suspense
4) while it has some netflix-ism OPLA tries to do the whole “show don’t tell” and trusts the audience still more than most shows nowadays. Like many changes/actions etc can be explained, tied to a theme or lesson or underlying intention what it tries to tell. To something that has payoff later or communicates something to show it after spelling it out
With that in mind Sanji’s comedic fight with the fucking otter isn’t just a nice comedic break but (and I probably already send a similar ask if you recognize this argument) but it’s literally also to hold the audience hands to “explain” these characters strengths and weaknesses. I’m really excited the new showrunner wrote 2x05 as it has such good character work for the most part. The whole Little Garden is now not only holding the audience hands that yes the cook who kicks CAN kill… but it also spelled out the difference in approach and strength. What Zoro offers vs what Sanji offers. How they add to each other but right now aren’t on the same line and misunderstand each other on a frustrating shallow level where they are SO CLOSE but Sanji can’t stop trying to charm Zoro when Zoro would prefer blunt answers and yelling and Zoro can’t see that Sanji is genuine like him underneath the performative charm. And with the “strength” and “Sanji is weaker here” it seems partly someone who made it seemed skeptical if the regular audience got HIS KICKS ARE A LEGIT WEAPON IN THIS UNIVERSE and needed to reinforce the basics first to than in the follow up episode show what both Zoro and Sanji lack.
Like nobody mentions in that fight… he fucking didn’t even fight the bird. He one shot broke neck of bird agent without a sweat. As kicks can be deadly, but you can’t blindly slashing like swords and do mass damage but have to be strategic. Exact. A hunter. A kick is deadly if you manage to hit the exact spot on the neck which he did TWICE. It’s a skill. But if your enemy is small and fast (and this Sanji hasn’t worked on his speed yet) that’s kryptonite. That’s exactly what your style is USELESS for. If someone is holding itself on it’s sword they will get cut but on a LEG you than can’t get the momentum to hurt someone. Like that scene was teaching the audience something about Sanji’s weakness as fighter. The episode was teaching us about all the strawhats weakness very directly. Usopps weakness as strength and the advantage of long distance weapons, Luffy’s also brute impulsive force without strategy as flaw. Nami’s staff broke too.
As in that episode and I think as it was in the original people don’t point to it but Zoro was fucking humbled too. Not comedically smashed around by an otter humbled but objectively… he too didn’t have many wins till Usopp set his swords on fire. In Little Garden he was such an ass to Sanji who did try to find a middle ground Sanji lost his good faith and Zoro got captured because of that after being painted. He needed Nami’s smart charisma to get un-yellowed. Where Sanji’s weakness is small fast so he can’t focus his kicks, Zoro’s showed on the wax cake. His brute force and swords were useless in this situation. If your only weapon is always “dangerous”… In fact and I liked how they used the comedic beat for again visual storytelling… his swords are more likely to hurt or damage himself as you can’t subtly swordfight than be useful if the enemy isn’t fighting him. Mobility is in all fights necessary but his swords especially. He could AGAIN only hurt himself to get out of it or rely on his teammates. The most fascinating part is honestly how Sanji’s solo journey let him lose the most humiliating way, but he literally didn’t have the help. And he now didn’t “learn the lesson” Zoro did that episode.
But long story short I think simplifying Little Garden in the live action to “Sanji is weaker here lol” underestimates that the writers are… you know… not just making a highlight reel but try to tell a story.
Whew okay this is a long ask and I have a long reply under the cut
Agree and I think live action characters are nerfed by nature of the medium. Everyone knows this at this point.
I feel like half the audience caught on that the T Rex scene was making the point that Sanji himself is a deadly weapon but some still need help. Maybe they'll get it when he starts bursting into flames later on IDK.
With this I do feel like Sanji and Zoro win to loss ratio isn't much different than in Animanga its just the fights with characters that arent fodder drag on more. They trade more blows because it's more interesting that way from a storytelling perspective. Luffy definitely loses more but I have faith that it will make it even more impactful when he beats Crocodile next season. I do get why Luffy fans feel a certain way but I guess I'm just not hung up on Luffy's strength right now because he's gonna surpass everyone by miles soon enough. Who cares if Zoro ~seems~ stronger now. Why do they lose sleep over these things?
Netflix is so guilty with handholding scripts becuase they assume people are multitasking while watching. Sadly OPLA trusting the audience more than the typical Netflix show isn't working out for some people.
I think their issue is that in Animanga he does one shot Mr. 13 too despite his size and agility. It could be the writers making a point that this was a different than fighting a bigger target, but I genuinely think they just wanted to be funny. Most people did find it funny others are overly caught up with shallow powerscaling as we dont see him solo a small army.
The thing with Sanji is that he doesn't have big strength feats in these arcs. Like yes he's clearly strong as he's taking on assassins and T.Rex's and climbing mountains with no devil fruit powers...but his fighting is not a big deal as his use of strategy. They handheld the audience in the Zosan convo before the T Rex showed up. Zoro rushes in and slashes things but Sanji observes and waits. They get the same result with different skill sets. The comparisons fail because they narrow down strength to how many fights someone has. But if Zoro can beat ANY 100 men easily then he should have been able to beat Mr.3 Mr. 5 Ms Valentime etc singlehandedly correct. But no he struggled just like Luffy did because those 100 were just fodder. Just like Buggy's crew was in 2x01. The real threats were on Little Garden. And speaking of Whiskey Peak ... Sanji easily beat up Mr. 9 so it's not a skill issue it's a does he have a fight or not issue. We assume he allowed the twins to tie him up but it's the writers job to explain he doesnt fight women. Will they do that ever I have no clue. But it's just like Fishman Island...him being unconscious didn't negate the fact that he would hop up at any minute and beat like 1000 men or whatever that crazy ass number was.
But anywho Sanji is different than Zoro and Luffy. They are so strength based in their goals and actions... everything is about fighting and training and getting stronger. Sanji is smart and stealthy, his goals are all about food and recipes. He just so happens to have natural raw talent with fighting and does absolutely nothing to maintain it. He legit just has it in him. So he CAN be one of Monster Trio and just throw hands but he's always busy being crews tactician first and foremost. That all starts with his Mr. Prince side mission which saves the entire crew. Him one shotting all Crocodiles men and the Banana Gators was just a reminder that he can be that guy too. The Monster trio needs him because he brings something in addition to brute strength. He's the balance there. Like yes he can solo most of the sea train in Water Seven but the point is that he knew to even be there because he used logic trusted his instincts about Robin. Good thing he did or she'd be locked up right now.
But yeah I get not liking the changes if you are watching specifically for the fights and for iconic Sanji moments that were changed - the Avalanche hi easily beating mr 13. HOWEVER...where they lose me is when they ignore the Mr. 9 fight, the T Rex, the mountain climbing, and his assistance in beating the 3 strongest enemies on Drum Island (had Sanji and Luffy not finished Wapol when they did Zoro and Usopp would have died). It's just arguing in bad faith when you start ignoring several scenes. Hell, they even handheld the audience in having Zoro question Sanji's ability in having Luffy's back, having Usopp specifically point out Zoro was acting like he was weak/unreliable, and then having him be proven wrong.
Sanji is a monster next to Luffy and Zoro when the situation calls for it. He's a shield for the weaker crew members when the situation calls for it and the team tactician any other time. That's his character and they have to stop only caring about the Monster Trio aspects. The s2 arcs deliberately kept him out of big fights as a set up for the Mr. Prince sidequest. His identity has to be hidden for that and Animanga fans know that so IDEK why they are leading the charge. They know good and well why he wasn't a part of the fight in ep 3 and Little Garden at the very least.
It's definitely a choice to say OPLA Sanji was weaker in s2 was weak whe everyone got nerfed. In the Manga Zoro defeated those 100 agents offscreen and then fought Luffy no sweat no problem. Luffy didn't struggle with his fights. Sanji only struggle was against Smoker who none of them can defeat right now. Like Mr. 13 complaints ok valid but other than that meh. He was injured in that last fight and tech did the finishing move of both Wapol's right hand men plut helped Luffy.
You know as I watched the Mr. 13 fight I thought to myself "Although they are playing this for comedy, it's gonna start idiotic discourse". And yep!
I actually wish they just let him easily kill him quickly and gave the comic relief to another character so we didn't have to hear about this for like a solid year. But anywho here's a gif of Sanji snapping a T Rex's neck with a single kick.
I find it so funny that people on Twitter complain that OPLA is such a bad adaptation and specifically Sanji is OOC then in the same breathe complain Oda is spending too much time working on OPLA and is neglecting the Manga. Which is it? If he’s so involved in OPLA that means the majority of the changes are things he likes. And it’s his story not ours.
The math never adds up when it comes to bandwagon hating does it?
But yeah Oda is so involved he was writing full scripts and forcing them to rewrite episodes. Are there changes he likely didn’t care for ? Yes I’m sure but things like Sanji telling Nami about his mom? Yes Oda approved that. Because again Oda, unlike a lot of animanga fans, understands
1.You simply cannot directly translate cartoon gags to live action. EVERYONE will be toned down. (Twitter acts like it’s only Sanji because they have a hyperfixation on Taz but everyone is toned down to fit the medium.)
2. When you do live action the characters have to act like real people. I.E they are going to talk and and do things they won’t in a 20 minute cartoon made for kids. We have swearing and gore and heart to hearts because the show is for a whole different audience.
3. Most importantly OPLA has the foresight of all the arcs. They know who the characters grow to be by Elbaf. They get to push Sanji’s kindness to the forefront as his most important trait because they know about WCI. They get to have Little Garden be a bigger deal for Usopp. They get to have the crew bond way more because they want it to hit when they are separated. They know Zoro will eventually train with Mihawk etc.
So yes of course Oda agrees to make the story even more cohesive since we have the whole picture. Why would they adapt as if they have no clue where everyone ends up? OPLA is a part of One Piece canon. OPLA Sanji is Oda’s Sanji too. There’s nothing any of them can do about it but cope.
P.S His outfits are from the color spreads so they are indeed something Sanji would wear because they are LITERALLY his clothes.
I won't stand for baseless opla bashing. Anime fans need to grow tf up. It's simple logic that they are aiming for a different audience so the way they tell the story has to be a bit more mature, but the characters still have the same core personality. Sanji smoking, zoro getting lost, Luffy picking his nose..
On one hand people complain about Sanji's simping and excessive nosebleeds, and on the other they can't handle sanji being all cool and suave. It's annoying.
Yeah that’s what I’m not getting. Most of the people who complain are the same ones who say things like “we all agree Sanji wasn’t on Fishmen Island” . But you hate a version of him who would absolutely never act like that. I mean to each his own but I’m happy I won’t be cringing this time if they get to that arc.
Mind you they are on Twitter right now complaining that Toei added more derpy perv faces to the new Elbaf episodes. If adding more of the gag is horrible and insulting why is everyone clinging to it for dear life? Clearly it needed to be changed because I’ll tell you what…adding additional scenes of OPLA Sanji flirting would not make the audience angry or assume the writers despise him. That’s what they are somehow not grasping. If the gag was cool and important they wouldn’t mind having more of it in the anime. But we are still hearing about how Fishmen Island ruined his character…
I understand that people have this head canon that sanji does not tell the crew anything about the abuse he went through because he does not want to burden them and that he has self-worth issues. I get that. BUT the fact that Sanji talking about his mom and how much he loved her and how much she loved him would be considered as "burdening" the crew and, hence, very ooc of him in the eyes of the fans is so weird! Of course, he is not gonna talk about the abuse! He only about the happiest memory on his childhood, which is visiting and feeding his mom! Also, everyone literally has a mom, that's not spoiler lmao.
Also, people bring up that sanji did not even talked about his past like that in the anime or manga. And it's astonishing to me that these people never thought that of course sanji never talked about his past in this past of the story because Oda himself has not even fully developed it! Like animanga sanji would not be talking about cooking for his mom so early in this story because his creator literally has not thought or fully developed his backstory yet. Oda probably had an inkling about sanji's past maybe around alabasta or jaya arc? But I doubt he has already thought of an extensive backstory for sanji.
Also, that's one more thing on why I don't understand when people insist that Oda hates Sanji. The guy literally made such an extensive backstory for this character. Sanji's backstory is so rich, expansive, and gives him so much depth. Like his backstory literally overshadows the other strawhats. Oda did not even make such backstories for the other strawhats. The only strawhat who could rival Sanji when it comes to backstories is probably Luffy lmao. I still remember when WCI was over and fans were coping and deluding themselves that the next arcs will focus and have more backstories on the other strawhats. Like they were fully convinced that Zoro is gonna get the same treatment in Wano...and then Wano just became an extension of Sanji's arc (him unlocking germa genes and the possibility of becoming an emotionless monster) lmao. His arc and character development is so well thought out. Even in the next arcs, after wci and wano, I could see like the Oda is building up to something when it comes to Sanji. Its possible that Sanji might get Conqueror's haki who knows
I do think that changing Sanji's gag changes his dynamic with Nami. They are closer and more intimate (and thats the case for all of the crew not just Sanji. They all talk way more about their lives and themselves. They are all more supportive and affectionate. The hyperfixation on Sanji is bizarre to me. They even cut Zoro vs Luffy and have Zoro having PTSD is that not equally a big deal as Sanji talking to Nami about how he too had a mom once? Everyone on Twitter is being VERY stupid and dishonest about this. He didn't even reveal anything besides the fact his mom died.
Yes Oda couldn't see into the future so he couldn’t add foreshadowing for arcs he hadn't thought of yet. OPLA can and so they do and it truly is that simple. Also in the animanga Sanji mentioned things about being from the North Blue. So he did talk vaguely about stuff. SOme of the writers etc said they originally planned to have a flashback with Sanji and his mom in ep 8 but thought Taz was so brilliant he could make the scene land better with a monologue. So they felt very deeply the audience should know Sanji has more to his past and that is a choice they get to make. It's a good one too. Sanami being closer is a good thing nothing negative happened there whatsoever. Good for them and hell I'm happy for their shippers too LOL.
I think Sanji will get Conqueror's Haki simply because he'll need it to permanently stop the Holy Knights. Oda's love for Sanji is clear cause like you said 2 backstories and the second one took 2 arcs to "conclude". And I say that because I don't even think the Germa stuff is done. I think unlocking his Conqueror's Haki is related to him holding back so he doesn't end up like his brothers. We'll see cause Oda might just make it be about protecting Nami or something, you know how he just goons sometimes.
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