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[argentdandelion]

Should Simon Have Friend-Dumped Grace?

Part 2 of 2: Conclusions

Note: this article does not sufficiently weigh Simon’s bad behaviors in Episode 11, “The New Apex”. This article has been kept unmodified for posterity.

(For the purpose of this article, “friend-dumping” will mean leaving Grace behind before The Origami Car and cutting her out of his life, whether by exiling her from The Apex or Simon leaving The Apex.)

So what happens next?

There are strong arguments for and against Simon friend-dumping Grace, which can be sorted into both moral and practical reasoning.

Seguir leyendo

[argentdandelion]

Should Simon Have Friend-Dumped Grace?

Note: this article does not sufficiently weigh Simon’s bad behaviors in Episode 11, “The New Apex”. This article has been kept unmodified for posterity.

Part 1 of 2: Series Abstract and “Strikes”

(Caveat: there’s a convincing case to be made they’re in a codependent abusive relationship, so treating this as a friendship gone bad may be the incorrect protocol or oversimplified. Still, for the sake of not re-writing the whole thing, it will be presented with the thesis they were originally close friends. Due to the difficulty of researching causes to friend-dump someone who isn’t toxic, some references come from toxic-friend protocol, so there would be some overlap.)

Abstract

The protagonists of Infinity Train’s third season, Grace Monroe and Simon Laurent, start off very close. However, as the season progresses, their friendship deteriorates, as clear through dialogue, but also facial expressions, body language, and vocal details. And yet, Simon chose to stay with her and obey her, if with increasing reluctance, and cared deeply about her (to him) inexplicable behavior changes. And it’s because he cared so much about Grace that he had to find out what was causing everything, leading to that shocking moment: “We….just won’t tell Simon, okay?” Later on, he shoves her off a train bridge to certain death, and briefly looks shocked and sad before he descends into maniacal laughter, and is then killed by a Ghom.

Perhaps if Simon had friend-dumped Grace earlier on, he could have avoided much of his turmoil.

Seguir leyendo

[ameloni123]

Simon might have taken the wrong choices but however lets not forget that Grace played a part on it even if it was unkowingly… if you want to create a reason why Simon is mad at Grace and create something from his perspective this is for you... and remember in this tragedy nobody is to blame.

[zanzaf-deactivated20221119]

Simon “unable to change” Laurent

[ameloni123]

Things to consider

[mmikmmik2]

Grace and Simon's friendship was the realest thing in the Apex, but they were never able to really help each other or be vulnerable with each other. I think this conversation in Jungle Car exemplifies that on Grace's end:

Simon: Threats seem minimal. Grace, fake-serious: But Simon presence remains aloof and dorky! Grace: Dude, we are the Apex, but also... we're Grace and Simon, remember! Simon: Yeah... Grace, mockingly: Yeah. Grace: Yeah, what? I've seen you lead an army of kids, but I've also seen you play sockball! You can play super serious general guy when we get back. Until then, loooosen uuuup!

Grace: Think of it as us being on leave.

These are the things that really strike me about this conversation:

Grace is giving Simon a hard time, but she's also being truthful and sincere. I don't see any lies or even anything misleading here.

Grace calls his usual persona "play[ing] super serious general guy" but also gives him the "think of it as us being on leave" out. She's using the rhetorical technique of appealing to his personal values, without being dishonest and pretending she shares them.

Notice how indirect Grace is being about her emotional reasoning. We can infer that she really wants to relax and have fun with Simon, because that's clearly what she's trying to achieve here and what we see them doing together after this conversation. But Grace doesn't say "I miss you" or "wouldn't it be fun to hang out?" or anything like that. She says what she has to say to get what she wants, expressing as little of her interior self as possible.

Also interesting how she pivots to talking about just Simon and not both of them in the middle there (while talking about specifics?)... like, she doesn't say "we lead an army but we also goof around together", she says "I've seen you" etc. I wonder if that's also partly because Simon responds better to that kind of approach.

If this is also an attempt to help Simon calm down and feel better (and I think it is), then that's also something Grace isn't explicitly acknowledging. I don't think in this case it's "bad" not to flat out say that, but I do think it's part of a larger pattern of their relationship... like, she didn't need to say that here, but she didn't say that here because this generally isn't a friendship where they acknowledge each other's feelings or caring about each other's feelings, and in a lot of other situations... that's bad! (It's also not something Simon asked for, or that I think he understands he could ask for/knows how to ask for.)

Interesting implicit acknowledgement from Grace here that playing Apex leaders works against their ability to actually be themselves.

It's like, this is a conversation that I could imagine happening between two people who have a healthy relationship, but because this is (as far as I can tell) the most sincere and open and caring conversation they'd had in ages, and as sincere and open and caring as it ever gets between them until Grace opens up in the chalet episode... feels like symptoms of a broader pattern.

[ameloni123]

AAAND more character analisis for Grace and simon YAY

[toobadyouarestupid-deactivated2]

Simon is having an anxiety attack while Grace is just chilling - Simon and Grace about Change

In just second episode we could see their views on change

Simon is scared of change. It makes him feel anxious, it takes away his safety. When they entered the jungle car, he got scared of sudden change of situation and place. He got calmer about when Grace told him that "it's gonna be like old times", she made him think that they're not really in a new situation, she made this situation remain him of old times, safe times.

Grace was chill about sudden change of place. She was curious, positive about it. She saw the positives, like that she has Simon by her side.

He was scared of change.

She wanted to explore it.

[ameloni123]

more Simon analysis

[toobadyouarestupid-deactivated2]

Something about Simon that I noticed that proves that he is very good written

The way he owns so many gadgets.

He doesn't have only the harpoonpack, he also has the number tracker and the anti gravity boots.

Why?

Couse he is scared that something will happened and he won't be prepared.

He wants to be organized and prepared couse he is constantly overthinking if something will happen.

And you know what overthinking is a symptom of?

Anxiety.

Which without doubt Simon had.

The way he was anxious about being in a new situation that he wasn't prepared for.

As soon as he entered the Jungle Car, he wanted to check if they were prepared for whatever can happen next.

In conclusion,

Simon is not just a bad male character. He is a human being with a personality. He has a personality, he has his interests, opinions.

This is what Book 3 showed us, that even the bad guys. The most horrible people, have personalities.

[ameloni123]

more analysis for Simon Laurent

[the-magnificent-otaku-draws]

On Our Own - The Hey Ho Whoa Car

Summary: Grace decides to finally come clean and let go

A/N: Might make a whole ask blog/AU out of this. What do you think?

Chapter: 1/?

Word Count: 2.8k

Warning: Slight gore (Accidental scratches/cuts via rocks)

——————————————————————————

That scream

She had only heard it once yet it was enough to make her blood run cold. 

   The girl quickly turned,eyes growing wide. All that time she spent trying to hide the truth,all the lies she had let slip to her dear friend,all the questions that bubbled in her mind the longer she spent protecting her,it was all for nothing. 

     On the rocky floor was a six year old girl,a shell on her back and beak on her face. Tears fell down her scaly cheeks,soft whimpers escaping her as she looked to the one person who had known all along with a fearful gaze. 

     Grace caught a glance of her friend,his jaw close to dropping to the floor. He quickly turned to her,his expression begging for some sort of answer. She could only guess what he was thinking,a rare panic written on every feature of his face. 

“I…I can’t believe it”

Keep reading

[the-magnificent-otaku-taco-chan]

In honor of #renewinfinitytrain event how would you guys feel about me doing a comic adaptation of the first chapter of my On Our Own AU?

[ameloni123]

is the offer still up? if so i will say YES also... where can i see it

[the-magnificent-otaku-taco-chan]

Does anyone have the Spanish lyrics for Tuba's Lullaby?

[ameloni123]

No te preocupes cariño,

No tienes que apurarte cariño cuando estás conmigo.

No te adelantes corriendo,

Mejor toma el largo camino, hay mucho que ver.

Cuando te detengas a escuchar,

No perderás oportunidades de jugar,

Siempre tendremos mañana,

No tenemos que tomar tiempo de hoy.

Así que,

No te preocupes cariño,

No tienes que apurarte cariño cuando estás conmigo.

Solo tómalo con calma,

mi pequeño pan comido, 

siempre estarás conmigo.

(easy peazy lemon squeeze in spanish has no equivalent other than (pan comido) bread eated)

[neshatriumphs]

This episode, their dynamic in it, and the impact is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO underrated. If you ever had somebody you thought you could trust be right next to you going through something and they have ZERO sympathy, no empathy, then they antagonize you and when you're vulnerable and frustrated they mentally attack you...

This episode was one of the most realistic depictions that I've ever seen of that type of anguish. I had years of that from someone and the way this cartoon that y'all lie to yourselves and say is for kids so accurately showed me images of my own life from 18-early 20s with a toxic, traumatized man that I thought loved me for whatever reason.

I'm still shook by this episode. My skin was crawling. Had he been able to get into my brain and cause more damage...

[ameloni123]

Simon has a lot of issues so lets give more psycholgy understanding about his character in your au in case you want to keep him a villain

[graphitesblog]

Okay first off a child's imagination is something else

Second Simon is delusional like is this bitch crazy or what

Like damn he keeps acting like this pretty soon he going to get his number to infinity in no time at all

[ameloni123]

a little of character facts about simon that you will need to consider to your au 

[ramblinseahorsey]

I just realized there was a clue I missed that the “Apex” they were following was Amelia since the beginning.  The Apex is a huge, messy clump of possibly hundreds of red dots, the one they were following was perfectly shaped, so big not because it was several passengers, but because of the number attached to the person.  

I love how subtle this detail is, the writers could’ve easily had Grace or Simon point this out, but in the end it makes sense they didn’t question it.  They assumed it was the Apex because, what other possibility could it be? They did believe firmly at the time they were the biggest number on the train after all.  When it seems like there’s only one possible answer, we just roll with it alot more often than we think.

[ameloni123]

A few things to consider about infinity train mechanics as a show

[simonmybeloved]

“Simon would’ve killed Hazel if Grace hadn’t lied to him!” lol no he wouldn’t have and the show literally tells us he wouldn’t

[ameloni123]

more simon ideas for alternate Au

[infinity-train-headcanons]

Simon has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He also has depression as well as trauma. The latter of which is part of the reason the train came to him in the first place. However, Simon is in denial over having been traumatized.

He’s insistent over being “too strong” to be traumatized, and “too smart” to ever fall into a traumatic situation. But it’s all simply denial.

[ameloni123]

Simon character analisis again

[momijiiiii]

thought #2:

Simon Laurent doing his little malewife hand on hip pose

introduction

1: peak comedy

[ameloni123]

Simon visual characterization in case you want to write him with non verbal lenguaje

[wayward-delver]

You know, Samantha “The Cat” is the only denizen Simon ever treats like an actual person. He even seems to respect her advice far more than even the other humans like Grace, be willing to hear her out and doesn’t directly lash out at her for questioning his beliefs/ideas. I mean it’s ironic that the Denizen that caused his hatred/bloodlust is only one he values to whatever extent he allows. Not to mention he never directly calls her “null” during their shared screen-time, opting to use her true name instead. This basically contradicts his whole “nulls aren’t people” argument without even realizing it. 

This show’s writing is on another level.

[ameloni123]

character analisis for simon again

[mmikmmik2]

So, I just posted here about Simon’s toy soldiers as a metaphor for his most toxic goals and behaviors. If you look at the toy soldiers thing on a very concrete and literal level, I think it explains a lot of why he (emotionally speaking) “needed” to kill Tuba.

There are denizens Simon can tolerate. He wanted to keep Alan Dracula as a pack animal and keep the spotlight denizen as a spotlight. He makes demands of The Cat, he gets furious with her at a few different points, and he smashes her furniture in a frightening and intense scene, but he never seems to want to harm or kill her. But even when Tuba proved she was a helpful and cooperative teammate in The Color Clock Car, Mr. “You’re only as good as you are useful” got rid of her anyway. Why is Tuba different?

There’s lots of different possibilities, and there are multiple things I personally think of as contributing factors. But I think the biggest reasons are because if you look at the toy soldiers thing on a more concrete and literal level, everything it shows us Simon wanting is something he can’t have while Tuba is in the picture.

Simon wants to be POWERFUL. Tuba makes him feel WEAK.

Simon wants to be BIG. Tuba is one of the only characters who is taller than Simon, and boy is she taller than Simon. Tuba makes him feel SMALL.

Simon wants to be IN CHARGE. Tuba thinks of him as CHILDISH ENOUGH THAT SHE COULD PARENT HIM.

Simon wants to be a SUPER COOL MILITARY GUY. Tuba thinks this is SILLY.

To be absolutely clear: this isn’t about Simon feeling unsafe. Tuba overreacted and tried to seriously hurt him in The Jungle Car and it briefly scared him. (Though, it wasn’t that much of an overreaction. At that point in the story, Simon wouldn’t have physically harmed Hazel, but he and Grace both would have happily manipulated her and caused lasting emotional harm if none of their gentler tactics had worked and Hazel had kept laughing off their cult indoctrination nonsense. Tuba was right when she perceived Simon’s frustration as a threat to Hazel.) But that’s not a recurring pattern in their interactions. Grace even seems more wary of Tuba than Simon is at a few points in Debutante Ball.

Again, I would point to multiple factors behind why Simon killed Tuba. For instance, I do think he was kind of semi-subconsciously aware that Tuba and Hazel’s presence was changing something about Grace, and that the dynamic between Grace and Hazel wasn’t the normal distant leader-subordinate relationship that Grace had with the Apex kids. But I think the number one reason he wasn’t ever going to be okay with Tuba was because just by existing, she wouldn’t let him feel the way he wanted to feel. Like half of Jungle Car was emphasizing Tuba being a mysterious and powerful denizen that Grace and Simon couldn’t figure out or defeat. He needed to put himself back on top after that.

[ameloni123]

character anlisis for simon

[mmikmmik2]

Simon is painting a miniature figure in the same scene where he tells Lake that they and Alan Dracula are subhuman and only have value when they are useful to real people like Simon. He also puts the finishing touches on a soldier miniature in the super-meaningful, foreshadowing-rich opening sequence of The Musical Car, before swiveling to survey his rigidly organized miniatures workshop with satisfaction, implying that process gets him into the right mindset for a raid. (Everything before and after that moment is clearly a pre-raid ritual, like kids or Grace or Simon prepping their gear or touching up their appearances, so it would make no storytelling sense if this is something Simon coincidentally happened to be doing this one time – I’m certain it’s supposed to be his habit.) The symbolism of miniature soldiers and battlefields, and the context of when Simon is shown to interact with them, link this hobby to his desire to belittle and subjugate others, and perceive himself as a high-ranking (eventually highest ranking) member of a pseudo-military hierarchy.

Simon: She’s not acting like she should! The Cat: And how exactly should she be acting? She’s not one of your miniatures, Simon.

The parallels to Grace’s dancing feel obvious to me. Look at the clumsy little toy soldier from his childhood.

It seems, uh, unlikely that we’re supposed to conclude that little babby Simon chasing after Samantha in his socks and sandals was always as eager to dehumanize and dominate real people as Simon the grown man became. Just like Grace’s dancing was originally about a lonely and neglected child who wanted to be loved, I think Simon’s miniatures were originally about a confused and scared child who wanted something in his life that he could understand and control. And both of their very normal and harmless childhood emotional needs became warped over time into toxic drives to manipulate or subjugate the people around them.

In The Origami Car, Simon succumbs to his worst impulses. His best friend is brokenhearted and distraught, and he ignores her pain to trap her in her own memories so he can explain to her what her own life means and make her get back in line with Apex ideology. To make her act like she “should”. This happens in a car that is literally a miniature landscape filled with miniature people. And when Grace won’t give in, Simon warps the tape so that he towers over her. He has symbolically turned her into one of his miniatures.

This is further emphasized in The New Apex. Simon originally wanted the spotlight denizen because “I’m building a diorama for my soldiers! I need a big light to emulate dawn before the Battle of Esmoroth.” Now he forces them to provide dramatic lighting for his confrontation with Grace.

His attempt to commit premeditated murder is just another miniature battlefield. The ideas of control and superiority, and the metaphor of other people as little toy soldiers that Simon can arrange however he likes, have become more and more prominent in his psyche until he became the worst version of himself.

[ameloni123]

more caracter analisis for simon