[bendavis1234]

Just for fun What are your Moxxie Headcanons?

.1. In the early days of working with Blitzo Moxxie effectively treated Blitz as his new Crimson and showed him the same fear and unquestioning obedience he figured every boss would expect,

and the first time he messed up on a mission or didn't do something perfectly he expected Blitz to either hit him or just straight up kill him only to be taken aback by his carefree attitude towards missions not going exactly to plan

( Blitz either was oblivious to this or he just thought Mox was some weird drama queen who took things too seriously but either way he didn't read much into it ),

.2. he has a Higher body count than Blitz and Millie, I feel this one could actually be the case given the life he was born into meanwhile Blitz didn't become a professional killer until he was an adult or at least late teen,

and I think we can assume the same for Millie despite having killed a number of people in her neighbourhood ( unlike Sallie Mae lol ),

.3. he actually doesn't 100 percent know that Crimson killed his mom but he isn't totally oblivious either, I know some people think it may be kinda dumb of him to have not put two and two together over the years,

but imo I feel like its kinda more heartbreaking if even despite how horrible he knows his dad is

he still isn't able to think that he'd have been capable of going that far so while the thought has crossed his mind over the years he pushed it down not being able to believe it,

.4. Autistic but by God would Crimson have rather died than actually had him tested when he was a kid ( personal one ),

.5. a small part of him still Hopes that Crimson will change one day and actually be a caring dad

but its like a small part of him that he tries to push to the back of his mind cause he knows its more like a naïve childhood fantasy but he still can't help but feel it every now and then.

[bendavis1234]

I Really Hope Crimson isn't a threat to his Grandchild just imagine how funny and cute he would be as a Granddad 😂😂.

I mean we already got Fizzy standing up to Mammon and cutting him out of his life and we're likely gonna get that for Angel and Val in next season of Hazbin and probably something similar for Stolas and Stella's future

so can't I maybe just Hope that the show takes a slightly different direction for Crim so that he gets to stick around without Dying or being kicked from the show for Good 😅😅😅😅

( just imagine sadistic mob Granddaddy lol ).

[bendavis1234]

Thinking about it the first movie intentionally trying to make Creek unlikable and unsympathetic right from the Get go isn't only kinda counter productive to trying to make a twist antagonist effective but its also kinda contradicting a major point from the first movie,

Feels like I haven't talked about everyone's fav little purple guy in a while 😂😂😂😂 and this just came into my thoughts a little earlier today but yeah I was thinking about how it has been said by the creators that they intentionally tried to make Creek unlikable from the get go so kids wouldn't feel too sad over his betrayal and later death in the movie,

but thinking about it this actually sort of contradicts one of the big parts of the first movie's story which is that people can be more complicated than their surface level impressions

Branch is the obvious example being rude and sarcastic and seemingly uncaring at the start but being more complex and deeper underneath but also the Bergens fit this given they are just thought of as faceless monsters who are not capable of feelings like love or happiness

but this is shown to be false mainly through Bridget and Gristle Jr but even just the entire society in the end showing they are more than what they appear to be on the surfice,

so Creek being portrayed in a way where he starts out as an unempathetic smug seeming jerk and later is shown to still be an unempathetic and smug seeming jerk seems sorta counter to that other message

like wouldn't it make more sense if the movie had started with him being portrayed as a seemingly nice person who seems compassionate and helpful even to people like Branch but then is later shown to not be that same person he appears to be on the surface deep down to further showcase this message in the film?

rather than having it be the case that yeah you can't judge everyone on the surface people can be Deeper than what they initially appear to be

except for Creek who is just the surface level Jerk he appeared to be at the start lol,

to be fair you could also make the same argument for Chef where she's portrayed in a pretty simplistic light consistently throughout the movie of being shallow and selfish and sadistic with nothing Deeper to her character

so I guess Creek technically isn't the only significant character portrayed this way and to be fair writing wise not every major character necessarily needs to be deeper than they initially appear one,

buuuuuuuut I would argue its a touch more strange in Creek's case given unlike Chef who is portrayed as an evil villain from the start and throughout the entire movie is an active antagonist working against the main characters

but in Creek's case he starts the movie basically as a Damsel in Distress type character who Poppy spends most of the movie trying to rescue so he's a driving plot point

and then switches suddenly to a twist antagonist in like what the last 15 minutes or so of the movie?

so I would ague its a little stranger for Creek's character to be portrayed this way given a twist antagonist kind of lends itself way too well to this type of message of not judging people solely by what they initially appear

ya know its the classic Hans from the Frozen type of thing so it is a little weirder the movie portraying Creek as a one note Jerk from the start and then having the twist be

"" oh yeah he is actually a one note jerk "" so the audiences expectations and emotions are not subverted at all really lol and this also goes against one of the points of the film,

rather than having him either start out as a nice compassionate seeming guy only to turn out to not be Deep down or having him start out seeming like a smug jerk only to then turn out to actually be a Deeper person than what he initially appeared to be.

[bendavis1234]

A scenario that I thought up ages ago that I think is really fun to imagine is Mox and Millie trying to have a big family meeting of their in-laws.

The idea of Moxxie and Millie after Deciding to keep their baby attempting to have a big family get together of the in-laws and being really stressful and awkward is an idea I've had floating around in my head for a while that I love to think about 😂😂😂😂,

I'm Hoping to get around to writing a fanfic about it at some point given it isn't exactly the most likely thing to ever happen in canon given it only really fits the unlikely scenario of Mox trying to form some sort of truce with and have a civil relationship with his dad which has like a 2 percent chance of happening lol

but just imagine maybe they all either meet at Millie's family's place or at Crimson's mansion for a large family Dinner so everyone can get acquainted and also so M and M can tell their parents their plans for the baby,

and maybe they both have to annoyingly deal with their parents disapproval over them saying they're going to raise the baby their way and not take it back to wrath to be raised in their farm life and not raise it in the mafia to one day "" join the family "" like Crimson would no Doubt want,

and just imagine how awkward and tense it would be no doubt Crimson would look down on them for their farmer lifestyle and Millie's folks would probably look down on him as some posh inner city snob whose never worked an actual day's Graft in his life

( probably what they think or at least thought about Moxxie as well ),

I can just imagine Crimson making passive aggressive remarks about their lifestyle and ring while Moxxie awkwardly tries to keep him in check and Millie does the same with her folks,

and one idea I had that I thought could maybe be kinda sweet is if Crim and Joe and Lin did end up getting along pretty well after a bumpy start after they find some old timer common grounds like complaining about the younger generation

and the new ways they do things and about their lack of respect for the ways of their family that have been how they've done things for generations and maybe even making fun of Moxxie being weak becomes something the parents start to bond over 😭😭

as Crim tells them "" funny "" embarrassing stories of Moxxie that always center on somehow framing him as wimpy and oversensitive,

( probably Hurting his feelings and making him feel awkward but he tries to ignore it since everyone is getting along and he doesn't want to ruin it ),

but anyway an idea I found kinda sweet is that maybe things are going great between the parents for a little while but then when they're all off drinking alone

while M and M are doing something somewhere else Crim ends up casually mentioning how he hit his wife and Mox in some nonchalant comment and this quickly ruins the moment and makes Joe and Lin go very sour towards him

( in this scenario I like to think they are very against hurting your kids and them laughing with him about Moxxie being not strong in their eyes is one thing but finding out his dad was actually cruel is another )

and they threaten Crim over this and him ever acting this way towards their Grandchild and maybe even stick up for Mox a little when Crim tries to insult him again to justify himself and the way he treated him as a kid

and they just give him the judgmental looks and silent treatment for the rest of the visit,

Idk I just thought that was kinda a sweet idea and even tho its unlikely AF I do love this concept and Hope to get around to making a fic out of it one day

as just imagine all the fun potential there is in Mox and Millie trying to make their parents play happy extended families with each other 😂😂.

[bendavis1234]

I kinda Hope this is how Sera develops in the future of the show.

I really want it to be the case that she develops from this stuck up and stressed out person who has been a Higher being for all her life to basically just becoming a regular joe who gets to somewhat experience the human experience and understands the sinners more,

If it was down to me I'd have her leave her Role in Heaven handing it over to others maybe with Heaven even changing the way leadership works

to ensure one person never has the power to alone make such a harmful choice ever again or the burden and Sera effectively just becomes a normal person

( maybe if possible she even gives up her physical power )

and decides to be more hands on helping Charlie since Heaven doesn't need her now its improved its leadership style and maybe by the end of the show Hell has improved to the point there's multiple Hotels or she could just work at Charlie's,

but my ideal end would be her becoming more like a regular person with her learning more of the normal human experience and interacting with sinners on the regular basis and becoming content in not being some Higher being but instead just being a normal cog in the machine

who is doing good to atone for her past but on the small scale and that can still be meaningful and actually learns what its like to be human first-hand by living humbly and doing humble work and having regular interactions with people

some who do know who she is and don't accept her which is something you have to accept is fair when it comes someone who has done the things she has done and some who don't know who or what she is/was and who just treat her as a regular person,

so By the end she would basically be the opposite of who she started out as in every way and I think that could be pretty neat plus it would be potentially fun to see her trying to adjust to a more normal way of life and the things most people do on a regular basis 😂😂

plus maybe Vagg's could be like her mentor on that front given she knows what its like and show her the ropes.

[nr1nimonafan]

Watching the fandom of a movie you love die out is a different kind of heartbreak

[bendavis1234]

This is sad as I literally only just saw the film the other day and joined the fandom but hey underrated films that get forgotten about often have resurgences in popularity and build up bigger followings over time so maybe that could happen with Nimona as well,

sorta like how one of my fav animated films Brother Bear was pretty underappreciated when it was relatively new but built up a loyal fandom over time.

[bendavis1234]

Imagine the interesting angst potential there could be if Crimson did turn out to actually be a decent Grandfather to M and M's child if they have it.

A couple of people have suggested the idea in the past for the kinda funny subversion it would be of the audiences expectations of Crim likely being a threat to the child in future in wanting it for himself so he can raise it

and treat him or her like shit rather than simply being fine with being a Grandparent who has no say in how they are raised,

but leaving aside the funny subversion of it I do find it interesting to think about how Moxxie's feelings could be portrayed in such a scenario

like imagine Crimson is about to interact with his grandchild for the first time and Moxxie is expecting the worst and on Guard only to be baffled by him doting on the kid

and actually being playful and kind and even sorta proud albeit in his old timer way and once the sheer shock has worn off Mox may have maybe some more sorta quiet somber and confused feelings struggling to understand

how the same person who was so cruel to him could also be so seemingly caring to another child,

but maybe it isn't all totally negative on the feelings side like he could also feel some genuine happiness over seeing his dad for once not be Horrible and knowing there's some tiny amount of good buried deep down in him

but at the same time the thought still lingers in the back of his mind every now and then somber over the version of his father he's seen he's capable of being but simply wasn't

so his emotions over this are very complicated and even kinda difficult for him to understand,

( see what I mean? its quite interesting to think about beyond just being a funny subversion of audience expectations this is the kinda juicy angst that really gets my brain flowing 😂😂).

[timkontheunsure]

It is possible, yer. Though I don't think they'll go that way.

It would take years for Millie to ever trust Crimson with any bab of hers.

I'm from a family of generationally violent fathers. I'm talking the kind of violent of Crimson or Stella. (Though they each failed).

The sort where most of us at somepoint went go low and no contact with our dads, for 3 generations.

And weirdly my grandad was a much better grandad than he ever was a father.

He wasn't brilliant or a different person, but he was never violent with us. And wasn't allowed to overstep. (And it's probably important that dad wasn't his biggest target).

Same with my dad, who was always a danger to me till the day he died. But was a beloved if grumpy grandad to my nibblings. (Again sib got off lighter than I did).

My dad's grandad was a bigot about the mixed marriage weens. But apparently ok with his other pure grandkids.🙄 They mostly saw him when they saw their lovely granny.

But yes, each time the parents have set heavy boundaries, that violating lost them access to littlans.

And every grandkid got a kid friendly explanation what happened, and safety checks, along side debriefings after visiting.

It took years to set up. None of these men got free access to the babies day 1.

This is why I actually don't think this is the way helluva will go. It would probably take longer than the run time of the show to set up.

And would send the message that this is the way all violent men can be treated, and that's just wrong.

Crimson isn't just an abuser, he's a serial murderer with a trophy case. Who actually succeeded at killing his wife.

And while Moxxie and Millie are assassins, I think that's honestly going to be a red line.

It's not just a job for Crimson, it's personal, it's family he killed.

Can you honestly expect Moxxie to play nice, and set up visits with the guy who stole his mother, and any kid of his Nanna?

[bendavis1234]

You bring up a lot of good and points and its interesting to hear your own personal perspective and History on this I think the main thing I'd like to address is your last point about Moxxie's mother since that's part of why I'm so interested in Moxxie and Crimson's dynamic,

yes its true that besides being abusive Crim also took away a loving parent from Moxxie but at the same time this is Hell where certain standards are pretty different from our own society such as the fact that murder is common place

that's not me saying that this would make Moxxie view it as a lesser wrong or he would suddenly be okay with his dad or ever be if we're being Honest,

But I feel that does mean certain things that may be unthinkable in our own society would such as maintaining a relationship with a murdering family member who killed another loved one are more within the realm of possibility,

for instance If hypothetically the story did take this turn I could see it not being something that sprouts out of nowhere but maybe comes about after either the child or Millie while she's still pregnant gets kidnapped

and desperate for leads and help they end up having to ask Crimson for his resources to help find them and after they're rescued this buys him a bit of goodwill and maybe leads to Mox suggesting they give him a chance to see his Grandchild albeit under strict rules and observation,

while I agree with you that this isn't the type of thing that can be rushed I don't think its entirely out of the realm of being able to be handled in the show's runtime

as it could basically be shown through the most important bits such as them talking it out and deciding to go through with it and if the choice is made prior to Millie giving birth then realistically that's months for her and Moxxie to get their heads around the idea and maybe we see the first couple of actual visits and exploring Moxxie's conflicting feelings about it such as the fact his father is capable of being kind to a child,

and he can also have some confliction about his mother and Wether he's betraying her by still wanting some sort of relationship with his father as that's really interesting to unpack tbh but I think the interesting thing about this is that it isn't simple

Moxxie wanting a relationship with his dad and letting him be a Granddad isn't necessarily him being a terrible son to his mother or betraying her and Crimson being allowed these things isn't necessarily excusing his past actions or letting him off the hook

its very emotionally complicated and I think that's what makes me so intrigued by these ideas,

( also considering how Moxxie never went back to kill him over the years or even after the Chaz wedding fiasco I Honestly don't think he wants him dead

and it probably wouldn't be much of a stretch if he'd prefer it if he was no longer a force that I.M.P butted heads with every now and then and instead would prefer it if there was a way to have a peaceful and at least civil relationship with him ),

"" And would send the message that this is the way all violent men can be treated, and that's just wrong. ""

I actually very much Disagree with this point tbh as its falling into the old trap of assuming that if a fictional story portrays something that automatically means its endorsing it and presenting it as something that should always happen,

its sort of like saying that because Sera was let off the Hook in Hazbin and that was portrayed as a happy ending that the show is saying that every type of mass murdering leader in History should be subject to the same treatment as they actually are good people deep down who will do the right thing and that its a good thing,

but a story of any sort portraying one situation where Dealing with an abusive family member isn't as simple as either 100 percent no contact or killing them and explores how messy and tricky it can be dosn' t mean the story is making some big endorsement of this approach in real life,

I mean if the story for example had multiple characters where this was the case like literally every single toxic or abuser character like Stella and Blitzo's dad and Mammon all ended up getting reconciled with their victims by the end then that can be considered sending a very poor message,

or even if this type of story tried to portray Crimson as actually some trouble parent who was secretly good deep down and tried his best but just didn't know any better because of his own upbringing

and ended up trying to excuse what he did then I can also see the point that its a bad message but a story simply portraying this type of thing I don't think is really fair to say its sending this type of message,

I know that like you said its not very likely to happen but I just find it interesting is all and its certainly preferable to explore these ideas safely in my head with fictional characters I like rather than actually trying it in real life haha 😅😅😅😅.

[bendavis1234]

Imagine the interesting angst potential there could be if Crimson did turn out to actually be a decent Grandfather to M and M's child if they have it.

A couple of people have suggested the idea in the past for the kinda funny subversion it would be of the audiences expectations of Crim likely being a threat to the child in future in wanting it for himself so he can raise it

and treat him or her like shit rather than simply being fine with being a Grandparent who has no say in how they are raised,

but leaving aside the funny subversion of it I do find it interesting to think about how Moxxie's feelings could be portrayed in such a scenario

like imagine Crimson is about to interact with his grandchild for the first time and Moxxie is expecting the worst and on Guard only to be baffled by him doting on the kid

and actually being playful and kind and even sorta proud albeit in his old timer way and once the sheer shock has worn off Mox may have maybe some more sorta quiet somber and confused feelings struggling to understand

how the same person who was so cruel to him could also be so seemingly caring to another child,

but maybe it isn't all totally negative on the feelings side like he could also feel some genuine happiness over seeing his dad for once not be Horrible and knowing there's some tiny amount of good buried deep down in him

but at the same time the thought still lingers in the back of his mind every now and then somber over the version of his father he's seen he's capable of being but simply wasn't

so his emotions over this are very complicated and even kinda difficult for him to understand,

( see what I mean? its quite interesting to think about beyond just being a funny subversion of audience expectations this is the kinda juicy angst that really gets my brain flowing 😂😂).

[bendavis1234]

I know the canon status of the shorts is ambiguous but Idc I will always consider this latest short as canon just for the scene of Mox beating up Blitzo 😂😂.

My little guy got some sweet sweet revenge for all the times he's made fun of him over the years lol,

let it never be said in the fandom again that Moxxie is weak.

[bendavis1234]

Its kinda funny but Crimson has sort of become a comforting character to me over time.

I used to be more conflicted on my feelings about him a while ago but for the past few months I've evolved and am firmly in the love camp lol and am even praying to Hellaverse God he isn't killed off in future,

I think the thing I find comforting is probably ironically the thing I found conflicting about him at first in that he sorta reminds me of a certain someone and made my little guy Moxxie feel even more relatable than he already was

so its actually kinda not only enjoyable but weirdly comforting to see a character like this who in some ways feels grounded and familiar but in most other ways is exaggerated as Hell

in his voice and shittyness and bigotry and the fact he's kinda an idiot for stuff like falling Chaz's lies and moaning about how Millie shouldn't be able to beat his men while she's literally in the middle of tearing them apart

( and ya know being a tiny red demon in Hell obviously 😂😂 ),

soooooo yeah its just kinda funny to me how of all people a character like this is comforting to my brain lol.

[bendavis1234]

I kinda go back and fourth over Wether it'd be more juicy story wise for Moxxie to already know exactly what happened to his mother or not.

The flashback is somewhat vague given his mother's shoes washed up quite a bit away from where he was on the boat and obviously we don't really know Wether it was some big secret Crim Crim kept over the years

or Wether he would have just openly told Mox about it to scare him or Wether Mox would have just figured it out on his own over the years,

but regardless my point is the show could believably go a few different ways with this in future and I kinda go back and fourth over which I think would be best aka which I think would produce the most juicy angst content that I live for 😭😭,

like one part of me thinks that it could be kinda heartbreaking if Moxxie actually didn't know like Crimson just maybe just fed him some lie about her dying some other way like due to rival criminals or an accident

and despite how suspicious this would logically seem to anyone outside of the situation for Mox himself he always believed it because despite knowing how shitty his Dad is

he still never would be able to bring himself to believe he'd be capable of going that far which like I said could be genuinely heartbreaking in a certain way,

buuuuuuuuut on the other hand part of me does also like the potential of if Mox has always known exactly what happened to her since that also could have some sad potential

like for starters I mentioned above that Crim could have probably used her death as a threat to Mox over the years so the idea of him living in fear of being disappeared like his mom if he stepped out of line is pretty sad,

but also I find the idea interesting of how it could potentially complicate Moxxie's feelings for his Dad even more like imagine if he legit felt guilty at times for still having some love for him despite everything because he feels like its sort of betraying his mother for him to feel that way

or if he ever felt ashamed of himself for not standing up to him over all those years and being obedient to him even knowing what he had done to someone he loved

and he maybe judged himself as weak or somehow letting down his mother's memory for a long time because of it despite that logically not being a fair thing,

Like I said there's so much angst potential here that I go back and fourth over which direction I'd prefer the show go with when it comes to Mox's mum 😭😭.

[bendavis1234]

What ending would you want for your favourite antagonist in the show? and what ending would you want for your least favourite? 😂😂.

So ideally if it were up to you what ending would your favourite antagonist or villain or villainous character get? and what ending would you give to your least favourite as well?

So I guess I'd say my current fav is Lute and the ending I would want is for her to end up in a position where she has to choose between either carrying out her revenge or working with Charlie and co to save Heaven from a threat

preferably one that Lute herself accidentally caused like if she set Roo free intending for her to attack Hell only for her to set her sights on Heaven instead endangering the entire realm in a neat bit of irony,

And Lute ends up choosing her loyalty to the people of Heaven over her revenge and works with Charlie and in the end Lute is actually ashamed of her actions for once given it was once her proud life's purpose to protect Heaven

and now she's cost it more than any sinner ever did but despite the cost she isn't banished and instead is given the chance to work to make things right

tho not as an exorcist since they still can't give her the same amount of trust they once did lol but she's allowed to stay and work to make things up to the people of Heaven reformed sinners included,

And the show ends on the note of Lute vowing to do better even if she is still currently dealing with her grief and still has those views towards sinners she needs to overcome,

Okay now for least fav well for me that's Sera

( I don't hate her but she's just the lest entertaining/interesting to me )

I'd probably give her an ending that involves a complete change to her character in pretty much every way lol like I'd have her leave her Role in Heaven handing it over to others

maybe with Heaven even changing the way leadership works to ensure one person never has the power to alone make such a harmful choice ever again or the burden and Sera effectively just becomes a normal person

( if possible maybe she even gives up her powers )

and maybe by the end of the show Hell has improved to the point there's multiple Hotels or she could just work at Charlie's

but my ideal end would be her becoming a regular Jo with her learning more of the normal human experience and interacting with sinners on the regular and being content in not being some Higher being

but instead just being a normal cog in the machine who is doing good to atone for her past but on the small scale and actually learns more of what its like to be a human,

Anyway what about you?

[bendavis1234]

My greatest desire is for Crimson to stop being a threat to I.M.P and instead just linger around as that old fashioned annoying relative you have to put up with every now and then ( I know it won't happen but I love to imagine how funny it would be 😂😂).

Underneath one goes from left to right.

The first image is a separate occasion from the other scenario btw tho I'm sure Crimson's unspoken political opinions would no doubt be horrifying 😂😂😂😂,

And I just love to imagine a scenario where he steps down from being an active antagonist to I.M.P and is just a comedically dark take on the awkward old fashioned relative trope

that Mox and Millie try to put up with despite how much he gets on their nerves since its preferable to having to kill him in Moxxie's mind

( tho not by much lol ).

[bendavis1234]

Possible idea for Mox and Crimson I wonder if they might go the route of making the family shittyness a sorta generational trait type thing.

I wonder if it might be the case that Moxxie's family being violent mob arsholes is kinda a long spanning generational thing and it will be the same that they are a long line of shitty parents as well which Mox would find out at some point,

While I have said in the past I would like the idea of Crimson being more similar to Paulie than anything

but I feel this kinda thing could more likely be the case in the show where its a bit of a worrying revelation for Mox but its not some attempt by the show to make Crim secretly sympathetic or anything

if anything I can easily imagine him as the kinda shitty parent who would use the excuse of

"" my parents raised me this way and I turned out fine so quit whining its just the way things are ""

like he was raised the same kinda way but unlike Mox embraced the life fully and saw nothing wrong with raising his kid the same,

And maybe he kinda gets in Moxxie's head a bit by revealing the long line of shitty relationships the parents in their family have had and even an exception like his mother didn't last because that's just the way it is with their family and in the world that they live in,

That could possibly be some good angst for poor mox 😭😭 with him already having fears over parenthood only to have them amplified ten fold

by finding out more of his family History and Crimson making it seem like its inevitable that they all grow up to resent their parents and have these bitter dynamics

( maybe there's even a morbid joke about their family having a long History of patricide and if anything Crimson was a little bit disappointed in Mox for not following the family tradition 😂😂😂😂),

Idk I'm just brainstorming ideas here while I impatiently wait for more Moxxie and Crimson content next season lol but maybe it could be neat as part of Moxxie's arc and to give a bit more to Crimson's character.

[timkontheunsure]

That 50%

Yer, I can see this easily being Crimson history.

It's a sad fact that about 50% of abused kids go on to abuse their own kids. Assumeing it didn't do them any harm to they repeated what that grew up with.

And helluva has a big message about over coming generational abuse, and supporting others going through similar issues to you had.

I think Mox will be very scared of repeating the cycle of violence.

And yer, Crimson probably is disappointed that Moxxie hasn't yet tried patricide. (I hope he remains disappointed).

The fucked up thing is a lot of abusive dads from a line of abuse dads; don't respect you unless you do attack them. Because it's how they stopped their own abuse... (But doing so makes you a little bit more like them).

Part of Crimson's bollocks against Moxxie being sissy probably is because Moxxie left when he could, instead of fighting him. Not just that he's queer, (though it's a big part of it).

I do think Moxxie will slip up a fair amount when learn to be a parent though.

He's already struggled to understand why a small family business wouldn't chuck out the boss' daughter out, for not being 'professional enough'.

Encouraging Blitz threatening Loona's place because of her attitude and lack of respect.

And Blitz does so because he's stressed, and falling back on Cash's lessons when he doesn't mean to. And apologies to Loona afterwards, because he would never get rid of his baby girl. And shouldn't have even suggested it.

(I still think Loona justified kicking him. Because her dad treats being a part of IMP as being in the family. So Blitz saying he might replace her...

All I can think about is Fizz's birthday card saying 'I wish you were my son', and Blitz being abandoned after the fire.

He had a lot to apologise for).

And Moxxie supports the idea of kicking Loona out for not towing the line, and being professional... Is all because Moxxie hasn't yet reexamined that lessons he was taught by Crimson.

So it's likely Moxxie will occasionally have his head up his arse with this. Like the other dad's mess up. Actively having to unlearning what they were taught.

Like Stolas did Via and Loo loo land; because he's unconsciously learn that "children enjoy the circus" from Paimon.

But I do think Moxxie is going to have a streap learning curve with a baby.

We've seen Moxxie genuinely likes kids, but is active bad with them.

Like carelessly dumping syringes of m*rphine into a baby's pram.

Or thinking the cops would be safe to set on kids...🤦

Hopefully Stolas and Blitz can give him some pointer on child care and baby proofing.

Cus otherwise Millie might loss it with Moxxie.

[bendavis1234]

"" And yer, Crimson probably is disappointed that Moxxie hasn't yet tried patricide. (I hope he remains disappointed).

The fucked up thing is a lot of abusive dads from a line of abuse dads; don't respect you unless you do attack them. Because it's how they stopped their own abuse... (But doing so makes you a little bit more like them). ""

Yeah while it is a very popular theory for the future of the show I am actually in the camp Hoping that Moxxie doesn't end up killing Crimson in future if/when he shows up again

as I kinda feel like it could be more neat for Mox to fully reject being anything like him by showing he isn't capable of killing someone he cares about regardless of how shitty he is and how no one would really blame him,

And obviously he makes it clear he's gonna try his hardest to be the opposite of the sort of parent his dad was and that kinda starts with him breaking this toxic family cycle they are in

And like you said that type of thing would probably disappoint Crimson more than if Mox did actually kill him or even kicked his butt because he'd likely be pleased in a way and consider it him finally Idk

"" Being a man "" or "" Growing a pair "" or some crap like that lol,

I could picture in my head a kinda poignant scene of Crim for one reason or another not being a threat to I.M.P anymore and Moxxie after sparing him just wishes him well and says goodbye,

Like I totally get why so many people want Moxxie to kill Crim in future but I do want him to live

and I think Mox actually showing more of his caring side that he deffo did not get from his dad 😭😭 over his professional killer side would be kinda satisfying in a different way

but that's just me lol.

[bendavis1234]

Possible idea for Mox and Crimson I wonder if they might go the route of making the family shittyness a sorta generational trait type thing.

I wonder if it might be the case that Moxxie's family being violent mob arsholes is kinda a long spanning generational thing and it will be the same that they are a long line of shitty parents as well which Mox would find out at some point,

While I have said in the past I would like the idea of Crimson being more similar to Paulie than anything

but I feel this kinda thing could more likely be the case in the show where its a bit of a worrying revelation for Mox but its not some attempt by the show to make Crim secretly sympathetic or anything

if anything I can easily imagine him as the kinda shitty parent who would use the excuse of

"" my parents raised me this way and I turned out fine so quit whining its just the way things are ""

like he was raised the same kinda way but unlike Mox embraced the life fully and saw nothing wrong with raising his kid the same,

And maybe he kinda gets in Moxxie's head a bit by revealing the long line of shitty relationships the parents in their family have had and even an exception like his mother didn't last because that's just the way it is with their family and in the world that they live in,

That could possibly be some good angst for poor mox 😭😭 with him already having fears over parenthood only to have them amplified ten fold

by finding out more of his family History and Crimson making it seem like its inevitable that they all grow up to resent their parents and have these bitter dynamics

( maybe there's even a morbid joke about their family having a long History of patricide and if anything Crimson was a little bit disappointed in Mox for not following the family tradition 😂😂😂😂),

Idk I'm just brainstorming ideas here while I impatiently wait for more Moxxie and Crimson content next season lol but maybe it could be neat as part of Moxxie's arc and to give a bit more to Crimson's character.

[bendavis1234]

Even tho its fun as a fanfiction idea I really don't think fallen Lute should happen in the future.

I feel like an issue is a lot of fans don't really think about what it would mean for other characters just that it'd be a cool visual and funny satisfying bit of irony

but in terms of Sera's character it would honestly be a total regression and would make Heaven look even worse if they literally created this problem and then enabled her to become worse over the years and then dumped her on Hell

aka the one place where she's actually a threat to anyone in the population simply so once again the person in charge doesn't have to actually deal with the nitty gritty of her problems,

Since that's literally what Sera did with the exterminations where she created them and then passed off responsibility onto Adam which deffo gave him leeway to make them as bad as possible

so how can she claim to be changed and wanting to do better by hell if she's going to literally create a bloodthirsty soldier and then dump her on Hell when she becomes too much of a problem

once again turning a blind eye to a problem she created rather than actually dealing with it herself and instead she'd be passing it off to the people she literally wronged,

So it'd not only be terrible for Sera and for Heaven's image but also it'd just be nonsensical since logically Hell citizens are the only people who Lute is a threat to since she Hates sinners

and could devote herself to trying to get angelic steel and also we know she looks down on Hellborns as well who are a lot easier to kill

so anyone who dies as a result of Lute would be deaths that are on Heaven quite frankly even if she never becomes a very big threat in the grand scheme of things,

So Divine judgment putting Lute in Hell and Sera allowing it to happen would not only be bad for the character growth she's meant to have gone on

but also its just nonsensical since Lute is logically only a threat to the people of Hell so putting her in Hell literally helps no one except saving some people in Heaven from a bit of mild annoyance lol,

Like I said its a fun fanfic idea but I think the fandom tends to only think about this in the simplest aspects of it being a satisfying punishment but not really ever giving it any deeper thought as to how bad it would actually make others look and how illogical it would actually be

like even if Lute isn't redeemed by the end of her revenge arc there are other ways for Heaven to deal with her problem themselves that would show actual change on their part

and a willingness to do better rather than basically just getting to wash their hands of anything even mildly difficult.

[bendavis1234]

Who would you say is a character that you feel is either under or overrated? but here's the thing you have to actually state your reasoning for why you think this.

Recently in the fandom on reddit we had that whole trend of people making those charts of what boxes they thought certain characters fit into for them

and in the underrated and overrated sections in a lot of cases we had people putting very overall popular characters in the underrated sections

and in some cases putting characters who are not generally regarded very Highly in the overrated sections and this got me thinking that despite during my time in the fandom seeing a lotta claims for under or overrated characters

I never actually see people give reasons for why they feel this way about certain characters even tho personally I never make such claims without stating why I think this so if there are any characters you think this way about

then please comment who but also try to actually think about and state your reasons for why you think they are under or overrated by the fandom?

Here's my one Emily,

Now the reason I feel this way isn't that I think its wrong for Em to be so popular or anything like that but I think a lot of people tend to sorta give her writing and overall character

more credit than it really deserves when it comes to how deep of a character she actually is especially when it comes to the certain crowds of people

that ever since season two have been bashing Charlie and claiming that Em would have been a better main character instead and I'm just like really?

so your saying if our lead character was a overly positive kind person whose beliefs never falter and who has no real significant character flaws or growth

and who has pretty surface level dynamics with everyone in her vicinity since she seems to just be simple friendly co workers with everyone in Heaven minus Lute who she seems to feel nothing but mild annoyance for

and when it comes to Sera their dynamic is just simple uncomplicated love that isn't even made more complicated by finding out her sister is a mass murderer since Em gets over it with no real development in season two and no real complicated feelings are implied to linger making it a pretty uncomplicated relationship,

So if she was the main character but she was literally written exactly the same as she is at present then I feel as tho the majority of people would actually complain about her lack of depth and growth and frankly I'd feel they'd be right to,

So in short emily is a very simple character she's just a conventionally easily likable cute cinnamon roll with a heart of Gold which is perfectly fine for a side character especially one that's literally an angel in Heaven 😂😂 so her being this way makes perfect sense

but I feel like people tend to overrate characters likability and confuse that for Depth and complexity in writing when if we've being Harshly Honest Em is technically a less complicated character than say Chaz in helluva lol,

Hear me out briefly Chaz has way less screen time than her but in his one canon episode he's portrayed as a self centered jerk who only cares about himself and is willing to do things like leave his boyfriend behind on a job to get arrested

yet is also shown as openly conflicted before doing so anyway implying that deep down there is a touch of either actual care for Moxxie or just basic empathy in there it just isn't enough to stop him from choosing himself over others and making the bad choice,

And he has the character flaw of being obnoxious and often making sexualised inappropriate comments yet after knocking Blitzo out when he's entirely alone Chaz shows a tiny bit of self awareness in calling out his own crappy joke showing he isn't 100 percent oblivious to how he is as a person,

The point isn't that Chaz is some super deep character lol the point is he literally has the bare bones of character Depth yet is Generally given less credit for writing than Emily

and the reason is solely down to one being made to be conventionally likable and the other being made to be conventionally unlikable but in actuality Emily's character is no more complex in writing

and if anything actually has less Depth so far so this isn't to shit on Emily as a character or her fans

I actually don't Hate her or anything I just feel a lot of people confuse her likability with her being a complex character when she's actually in a writing sense pretty One D

( again that's not an insult I love plenty of characters who are technically not very complex ),

But anyway so like I said whenever I state why I feel a character is over or underrated I do normally try to give an actual explanation so people can Hopefully understand why I feel this way so if you are going to comment please try to do the same and I'd be interested to read it.