zu*tara shippers are very obsessed with motherly stuff, it's in every single one of their arguments abt why ship is bad (when the things they are describing are neither motherly nor bad). Nonnie gave themselves away. Nothing on kataang is motherly. Nothing on maiko os motherly. Mai not wanting her boyfriend to become royal firebender soup isn't motherly. Nor is it misogynistic. Saving someone's life is not inherent or exclusive of mothers or women in general. Unless nonnie is trying to tell us that zuko saving katara's life is motherly? Or sokka grabbing toph on the airship in the finale is also motherly? Aang saving everyone is also motherly? Somehow I don't think anon would say that. Granted, Avatar writing isn't perfect, there's a lot that could've been done better. But none of nonnie's accusations apply, to either ships. Katara doesn't suffer from being with Aang. Mai doesn't suffer from being with Zuko. Except maybe the existence of ppl like nonnie bending a thousand and ten directions trying to prove that maiko is bad or that Mai lacks personality, or telling her to smile (last I checked, demanding women to smile was misogynistic but maybe things changed, my bad) even tho she does smile, especially near Zuko (and so does he near Mai btw).
Ultimately, nobody gaf abt wtv reasons you've made up to justify your not liking of wtv ship, literally nobody asked. Ppl need to keep shit to themselves.
Couldnât have put it better myself anon.
Maternalizing female characters is certainly an issue in media, but to apply that line of thinking to Maiko and Kataang is ridiculous. In my opinion neither Mai nor Katara are reduced to a motherly figure at the expense of their development.
Thereâs not a single instance of Mai being overly smothering or nurturing to Zuko. Itâs actually funny because the most common criticism of Maiko is that Mai isnât affectionate ENOUGH. To imply that Mai is motherly to Zuko in any way is hysterical.
BR is a turning point for her because sheâs betraying Azula and acting independently for the first time. It doesnât set her development back and it doesnât betray her personality. The act alone of sacrificing herself does not inherently maternalize her as you said anon.
I love Kataang but admittedly am not as well versed in their scenes. I do think itâs clear in the show that if she does act maternal, itâs because:
1) her and Sokka are both affected by growing up in a culture that reinforces traditional gender roles
2) she lost her mother and has risen to fill that role for Sokka and her friends
Both of these things would still be true even without Kataang and are intentional elements of her characterization. I love Katara and in my opinion her compassion is something that makes her interesting, not something thatâs just âmotherlyâ.
Saw a brilliant tweet not long ago that said âitâs not all zks, but itâs always a zkâ đđđ
I'm not one of the weirdos who hate Mai so I could never put my finger on why I didn't like maiko but reading your post cleared it up for me: I don't like heterosexual relationships where the girl makes sacrifices for the guy that are very similar to what a mother would do. I guess I'm just not misogynistic enough to be into a ship like that. Avatar writers were certainly misogynistic enough to write it and it's not the only thing. They've written other similar misogynistic stuff too. Funny thing everything zutaras say is wrong with kataang, is actually wrong with maiko if one looks at it closely. Everything they say Katara suffers from for being with Aang, Mai actually suffers from for being with Zuko.
Saw this Tik Tok about how Zuko only laughs FOUR TIMES in the whole show and the 4 people that make him laugh are:
1. The Pirates
2. Ursa (when heâs a child)
3. Irohâs Letter (when heâs a child)
4. MAIIIIII
âOrange is such an awful colorâ had his grumpy ass GIGGLING!! This is partly because he is obsessed with her and partly because sheâs the funniest girl in the world sorry I donât make the rules
I know all maikos are hoping for a Zuko movie so we can see more of Mai and Maiko but I actually prefer no movie bc tbh I don't trust avatar studios. They play on Zuko's face too much, they love messing with Maiko as well. They could have given a little hint of Mai and Maiko in the movie (like they showed Iroh and Suki at the end in those snapshots?, they could've done with Mai too). Nothing too crazy, since it was Aang's movie, just to show that these characters that aren't the gaang but are close to them didn't fall off a cliff or something. But they chose not to, they chose to give margin for weirdos to keep being weird abt Mai and her relationship with Zuko. They chose to keep us hanging. So yeah, I'm pessimistic.
Unfortunately anon I tend to agree. I genuinely love Maiko and want them to canonically reunite but in terms of it actually happening Iâm pretty pessimistic.
Itâs been years at this point, and as you said it would be easy for them to confirm in some small way and they havenât. The Promise came out in 2012(?) and weâve had a sequel series, a Mai-centered comic, and now a whole movie come out since then with Maiko never confirmed đ
I donât think theyâre actively trying to slight Mai. Out of all the ships in the show, Maiko isnât that popular, and has always had its criticisms. I think theyâve intentionally left things unanswered simply because itâs not important to Zukoâs character.
With the way Legend of Aang was leaked I donât really expect a lot of ATLA movies in the future anyways. Mostly itâs just fun to dream of a world where my favorite character gets to appear in animation again đ„°
In MY head of course they end up together, and Izumiâs name and design certainly lend itself to that argument. But honestly Iâm so tired of arguing whatâs canon because it doesnât matter to me. In my head theyâre married and they live a long happy life together until they die at the same time peacefully in their sleep ahajsjsjdhdhdjd
I think the reason a lot of people like to think Azula wouldn't have hurt Mai is because if we think she would have, it makes Zuko look really really bad for leaving Mai behind in Boiling Rock. I'd rather believe Azula wouldn't have hurt Mai. Otherwise I can't ship maiko. It's a pretty thing and I don't like Zuko neglecting Mai to that extent.
This is a really interesting point anon, and I think this is a pretty common sentiment! I know thereâs a lot of people that donât like this or the fact that we never see Zuko go back for her.
However, I actually think that that is what makes Maiâs actions such an incredible sacrifice.
Even if people donât think Azula wouldâve killed Mai personally, we know that Zuko is viewed as a traitor in the Fire Nation, and any action Mai takes to help him is also an act of treason. Even if Azula wouldnât have killed Mai personally, there is no debate that what Mai did was an incredible act.
She acts completely of her own accord. Sheâs capable, clever, and she is well versed in how Azula behaves. Zuko doesnât ask it of her, and even takes active measures to try and keep her out of the fight by closing her in the cell. All of the actions she takes to save Zuko are done with the understanding that there is no escape. Mai gives her life willingly so that he can get away.
They both know this. I actually think the fact that Zuko doesnât try and go back possibly shows that he believes Azula will not be merciful to Mai. Itâs also clear that there is no time, and to squander the chance Mai gave to them would be a disservice to her.
We see a lot sacrifices made throughout the entire show: Kya gives her life for Katara, Ursa flees into exile for Zuko, Iroh is captured by the Fire Nation so Katara and Aang can get away, Yue gives her life for the moon spirit, Zuko jumps in to redirect the lightning for Katara, and Aang risks everything to defeat Ozai. As far as I know, we donât fault anyone else in the show for accepting a sacrifice that was lovingly and willingly given.
A lot of people argue that Maiâs actions are narratively unearned. However in my opinion, in a show that is all about love, redemption, and working against evil to form a better world, I think Maiâs sacrifice fits right in. One of the only things the show really tells us about her is that she cares for Zuko and wants to be in a relationship with him.
It shouldnât negatively reflect on Zuko, it should reflect positively on who Mai is as a character. It should show that even though she does not understand why heâs doing what he is, she loves him and trusts his character enough to risk her life for it. I think itâs actually a really beautiful testament to Maiko as a couple.
I know the song is for romantic relationships and all but these particular lyrics makes me think of Ursa leaving after saving Zuko's life and how he might feel abt that
Youâre so right anon đ Zuko learning about quiet sacrifice from his mom oh thereâs something to that
itâs actually cruel and unfair that we never get to see Zuko and Mai fight side by side (in the show at least) this is why we need a Zuko movie bc I need to see them have dry, sarcastic banter with each other while they defeat their enemies itâs not funny
They split driving 50/50 because they both enjoy it. Mai is a very efficient passenger princess and always has well curated music and gives prompt directions. Passenger princess Zuko gets distracted chatting to her and looking out the window so sometimes doesnât give her directions until itâs too late and she has to tell him to pay attention
Zuko can fall asleep anywhere pretty easily whereas Mai has a whole routine with an eye mask, special pillow, and lavender spray that Zuko often steals
Their guilty pleasure is bad reality TV bc they love to talk shit together but they donât tell anyone else about it
Theyâre both bad texters and always have dozens of unread texts. Zuko is more likely to read and not respond but Mai just straight up doesnât check often
Do not FaceTime either of them unprompted they wonât pick up (everyone tries anyways and it almost never works)
They love an afternoon nap/cuddle on the couch together
Neither of them are good at remembering to take pictures together so most of their pictures are ones prompted by Ty Lee or Sokka (they have a small handful of selfies from the rare occasions where they do remember)
Mai has several unflattering photos of Zuko but heâs only ever managed to get one unflattering photo of Mai and she promised to kill him if he ever showed it to anyone else (he hasnât)
Now me personally I enjoy the concept of Mai and Ty Lee both being afraid of Azula and wanting to say something to each other but both being too scared bc they donât trust the other to not rat them out. Mai being shocked that Ty Lee defends her against Azula at Boiling Rock because she didnât know how much Ty Lee cared about her. Both of them trying to play their cards close to their chest because they donât know if they can trust each other⊠I did not realize this was such a controversial take
Several people didnât like this so I figured Iâd expound a little bit about the three of them not really being friends.
The greater point I was trying to make is that I donât really view them as true genuine friends because thereâs a lot of trauma and intimidation that get in the way, primarily from Azula.
From the jump, we see that Mai and Ty Lee arenât really along for the journey because they love and care about Azula and believe in her goals. Ty Lee is blatantly threatened, and Mai despises Omashu and is willing to do whatever in order to get out of there.
I always thought this was an interesting parallel to the Gaang. Theyâre all working towards a common goal that they believe in and have deep love and respect for each other, which allows them to prevail in the end. The girls however, end up falling apart and severing whatever bond they did have.
I believe that on a surface level, yes they are friends and probably view themselves as friends. Not everyone likes to take Ashes of the Academy into account, which is perfectly fine, but I do. To me, even their childhood friendship is plagued by ulterior motives and influence from their fathers.
I understand why people believe them to truly be friends and I can see where theyâre coming from, but I do think thereâs plenty of evidence to the contrary as well. In my opinion thereâs too many toxic underlying problems that prevent me from viewing them as a genuine best friend trio. I think they absolutely would be close if it werenât for their upbringings and Azulaâs dedication to her father and the Fire Nation. However, to deny that the three of them do not have an extremely nuanced and complicated relationship is reductive to all three of them.
And then lastly is a point thatâs been made so many times itâs barely even worth stating anymore. Taking two comedic lines from Mai about Azula as evidence of her not fearing Azula over DOZENS of scenes where Azula is threatening, intimidating, powerful, and cunning against anyone who gets in her way⊠itâs a baffling interpretation to me but to each their own.
ALL THIS TO SAY I hate when people say things like âwho cares about Boiling Rock, Azula wouldnât have hurt Mai because they were good friendsâ because itâs obviously untrue.
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