sebastianshaw:
sebastianshaw:
Um, ok, while going through the interview with Claremont about Shaw (whom he created), I found some quotes about him with regards to both Prof X and Magneto, and I thought I should relay them to you guys, @prfxxor @magnetic-regent-magneto @wyslyyzr @tatterdema1ion just in case it was of interest to you, being your muses and all. On Charles: “Shaw and Professor X (Charles Xavier) met long before the latter assembled the original team of X-Men. Claremont considers the differences between them to be far more deep rooted than those between the leader of the X-Men and the villain usually considered to be his arch-rival. “To me the conflict between Shaw and Xavier was much more primal and much more fundamental than Xavier and Magneto.” I um Ok I understand the idea that Shaw and Xavier’s ideals are more at odds than Xavier and Magneto’s but I am confused/concerned by the use of the word primal Also, moving on, his quote on Magneto and Shaw: ”Xavier and Magneto were always best buds, Magneto was just going the wrong way. Shaw and Magneto—if I’d got my wish and Charlie hadn’t checked out–would have been a knock-down, drag-out fight and the beauty of it is that, Magneto, for all his power as master of magnetism, for all his charisma, for all his passion, is so out of his league against Shaw, and he doesn’t know it. Charlie at least has a clue; Magneto, he’s not used to fighting Tony Stark [Iron Man’s billionaire alter ego] and this is a guy that’s even scarier in his own way than Tony Stark.” So, I’m not sure I agree that Shaw is out of Magneto’s league. At all. And I mean, the way it ended up going, Magneto pwned him. Which was awesome. But given the way that Claremont phrases this, I think maybe the “knock-down, drag-out fight” that he means, would not be physical and would instead utilize Shaw’s financial resources against Magneto in ways that his mutant power can’t combat. Which would be really cool, because that’s Shaw’s real superpower, and also I love in general when superheroes are placed in situations they can’t just force their way out of with their powers. On the other hand, I just really love the fight that actually did happen and how we got images like THIS and THIS out of it. Like come on that’s fucking hilarious. ALSO The title of the paragraph where Claremont talks about this? “A TRIUMVIRATE OF POWER” THANKS, MAGAZINE, FOR VALIDATING ALL SHAW’S EGOSTICAL DELUSIONS ABOUT THE MAGNETO/CHARLES DICHOTOMY BEING A TRICHOTOMY THAT INCLUDES HIM THANKS A L O T
@prfxxor - “ i think by “out of his league” he means that magneto is really not good at playing the political or psychological game, whereas that IS shaw’s game. erik can make up for his political clumsiness when his opponents are several notches below him in terms of raw power (like most human powers that be), but shaw is not that far off from him as a one man army. so the ability to play the long and big game really makes a difference- “ YEAH i think so too. Like all love to Mags but he really is NOT (and in fairness, doesn’t usually have to be) It does make me wish that story had happened, since long political games are what Shaw is best at, but is NOT what a lot of X-Men writers want to do. It’s certainly fun to see him being a bruiser, but it’s more satisfying and true to his character to watch him manipulate things. Which, bringing it back to my favorite dead horse (SORRY) is yet another disappointment of Duggan’s Marauders. Because unlike Magneto, Emma is BRILLIANT at psychological and political games, and while I don’t think Shaw can beat her in the end, I think it would have been an AMAZING political thriller style series to watch them try to one-up/outdo/sabotage the other, while also having to make sure their endeavors don’t fail since technically they’re working together and have a job to perform. And superpowers (theirs, anyway) would barely be involved against each other, since unlike in the 80s, they’re immune to each other’s abilities now—Shaw to her telepathy, and her diamond form able to resist physical damage from him. Like, this could have been really great but then Duggan would have to let Shaw have a single consistent braincell and for Emma to actually ever struggle—
I also just want to add that I think the characterization of who is who’s archenemy has more to do with the moral/social structure of the characters’ roles in mutantdom than their feelings toward each other or their raw power.
Shaw symbolizes two moral dangers-- one that Professor X faces and one that Magneto faces while they conduct their politics of resistance.
For Professor X, Shaw threatens the legitimacy of his early project to create peace between humans and mutants while maintaining mutants’ independence. Shaw exemplifies why it is so dangerous to cooperate with humans/the establishment, and he likewise exemplifies the arrogance of thinking that if you’re part of the humans’ political project/”an inside mutant” you’ll be exempted from the fallout when they launch the next war on mutantkind (see the sentinel project). At least a few of Shaw’s mutant allies are self-hating wealthy people, also. Shaw thus has the selfish motives that Magneto and his followers attribute to the X-men. He wants the establishment/status quo to continue because he likes the wealth and power it gives him the opportunity to manipulate. He makes the X-men look much worse just by existing, even as he sows enough doubt in the mutant community to help them be divided.
For Magneto, I think it’s more personal. (Later I think Apocalypse serves more of the role Shaw would have for Magneto-- if only because the way Shaw does it is more subtle and a greater condemnation of White oppressed group members’ conduct in the U.S. and the writers of X-men aren’t exactly famed for subtlety.) The Hellfire club (Shaw style) is the perfect symbol of the ways that oppressed White/White passing groups with more resources than other oppressed groups band together to "self-strengthen” and lobby for their own benefit while actively betraying and discriminating against those who don’t have their advantages. Shaw’s whole motto of pulling himself up by his bootstraps isn’t just a capitalist thing to me, it is such a knock against the politically toxic and unhelpful attitude the lower-class White culture I come from has (which is why I like his character’s addition to the X-men story). If there is one huge existential danger that confronts Magneto when he forms a mutant political group and nation, it is that Magneto’s credo (mutants can be better than humans) will change from rhetoric designed to combat a society that thinks mutants are inferior into a supremacist slogan Magneto will use to oppress others, especially other mutants. The fact that Shaw seduces Magneto into this obviously bigoted Hellfire club is, in retrospect to Magneto, this humiliating realization about how easily he can be seduced into the very attitudes and politics he hates in humans. Ultimately if Shaw is less of a rival to Magneto than Xavier it’s because:
1) Magneto finds it easier to avoid Shaw’s kind of supremacy than Apocalypse’s so Apocalypse and his followers (who keep infiltrating Magneto’s team and his mind) is more of a threat
2) Shaw tends to recruit mutant allies with more resources and affluence so he’s competing for a pool of people Professor X is more likely to recruit than Magneto. (I’m not counting that brief moment when Magneto colluded with the Hellfire Club members Shaw left behind when he got kicked out for a while). Most of Magneto’s followers would be rejected by the Hellfire Club if they even tried to apply because they’re rejects.
It’s because Magneto finds the Hellfire Club to be less of an existential threat that he later is willing to use the Hellfire Club/play them to realize his own goals. I think Uncanny X-men (2016) is the time period I’m thinking of.
In conclusion, I don’t think X-men’s writers are brave enough to write the political dimensions of Shaw that make him such a threat. And if I characterized the mutant world, I’d make the power dynamic a rhombus, with Shaw and Apocalypse as two extreme poles and Professor X and Magneto pulling their own corners more toward the middle.















