i have been cursed with 11 years of knowledge of classpect and i need to exorcise it from my person. i'm right and i can justify my classpect theory but i do not have the energy to explain myself
pages are like. they narrate and overthink and ramble and then somehow still manage to speak without thinking.
princes are so overcome with the intensity of their emotion that they have to. moderate their own thoughts or it will be too much for them to cope with. or it will spill out ineffectually as pure venom
maids don’t think. they just. are not conscious of their feelings. they don’t have thoughts in the moment about what they’re doing. they can reflect on things in hindsight but even then the commentary is very minimal. they act more or less directly based on their impulses. in retrospect they can be more descriptive but tend to self censor a lot.
rogues are frustrating bc every thought that they have is fully pre-packaged. it’s like. here is the wildly emotionally dishonest thought i’m thinking. that is the end process result of the original emotion spinning through all 15 layers of my trauma. no i will not elaborate. they entirely skip over any commentary about their emotional process.
mages. they talk a lot of words but they don’t really think things through? it’s more like they act on pure impulse and then later try and explain it and they clearly haven’t processed why they did what they did and so it comes across as them lying or being in denial. like. just trying to guess why they did something. and trying to sound like they know what they’re doing. or know why they chose to do this particular thing
heirs are. boring. because there’s zero filter between thought-feeling-action
thieves are just heirs but with the one key feature. what makes a thief is specifically. having this fundamental belief in their entitlement. to a certain thing. instilled in them fundamentally, whether through external influence or just naturally. and their whole worldview is just altered by that because there’s just this belief that in a just world that thing belongs to them. and so for their whole narration it’s just this big Thing that their narration constantly just steps around when it’s like. you’re???not???entitled???to the thing??? trying to make them confront it is TRICKY because it breaks the thief. if they manage to accept that they’re not entitled to the thing. it resolves their trauma but it just breaks the character they become an heir
witches are frustrating as fuck to write. because it’s a very weird blend. they don’t really think that much in terms of Words but they are ALSO constantly brooding about their feelings. sometimes they’ll have a few things to say about their convictions. or conclusions. but the thought process doesn’t involve a lot of words. they are very Present in the moment
i don’t know how i would categorise sylphs as narrators. they are very helpful in that they do describe things and have very calm and defined opinions/observations about situations. ah i think similar to thieves the key feature is the blind spot. for sylphs being the absolutely certainty in their own impressions that is stubbornly resistant to self reflection.
seers are the literal opposite of mages where they actually HAVE thought things through and it can be frustrating how little they will reveal in the text. they comment very little but with full understanding of what is going on. so it’s actually interesting to have to dig into their narration for hints of what is going on internally and how much they ACTUALLY understand? unlike sylphs it’s not so much certain as just cautious?
knights. broody mcbroodface. knights don’t think they brood. maybe if they thought about things instead of just brooding then things would be easier. they just say a lot of bullshit and don’t really emotionally process any feelings or concerns they sort of sit there and rotate the feeling in their head until it spurs them into some (usually not well thought-out) action
a bard narrator is fun but also frustrating to pin down because bards are slippery characters. on a personality level bards seem incredibly average, except that their desires can change on a whim, prompted by almost anything. typically they are subconsciously following a trail towards their aspect, and they act without much consideration -- the outcome of their actions is the key thing to observe, because once you see the bardic effect, it's clear the purpose behind this action. it's crucial that the bard themself is not consciously choosing the path they're on; their actions continuously come from a place of no deeper thought. they can turn inward for self reflection, but that causes all of their momentum to screech to a halt.
Hi, I hope you're doing well! I've stumbled upon your page and read all your posts, and I love the ideas you've shared! I know you said this was just a reference for yourself, but I was wondering if you have any more class pairs or analyses you might be willing to share? No worries if not, I just thought I'd ask because I've also been struck by the classpect curse, haha. And thank you for sharing your thoughts here, they're very well articulated! Hope you have a great day :))
oh my god i'm so sorry it's been over a year and i just saw this ask? i just came back to this blog after aaaages and im finally starting up more posts again!
im working on getting some more recent thoughts up right now and then i may get back to doing more glossary posts :)
been thinking lately about the boundaries between classes - how there seem to be some classes that can turn into others, or the line distinguishing the personality characteristics of the class is very thin and often context based. ie what starts out as heirs can turn into thieves, possibly mages. princes and seers can be similar in their intensity. pages can mirror knights.
ultimately the determining factor is narrative function; the personality traits simply serve to provide a believable framework for the character to commit those actions to serve their narrative purpose.
so it comes down to how much this can be applied to irl where there's no grander narrative purpose, yet people often do end up fitting into certain archetypes anyway.
comes down to the nature vs nurture thing - are people destined to develop a particular way or are their circumstances more important to what they end up being? then possibly drawing into a wider question about social development - are these archetypes caused by push forces within society that push certain inclinations down towards particular secondary traits etc. probably the case? maybe worth thinking about
i was explaining classpect to my friend and i had a realisation about like. classes as narrators.
it’s about the relationship between thought, knowledge, feeling, and action
to define my terms here:
action what a character does externally
feeling is the point when an emotion is identifiably felt
knowledge is when something is intuitively understood
thought is the character’s conscious, logical reasoning
for each class, the relationship between these four elements is markedly different and this determines how to characterise them accurately and also how they present as narrators.
to extremely simplify this i am ranking them for each class. the order of the ranking is key.
A character’s narration generally arises from Thought. The position of Thought in the ranking determines how self aware the narrator is of their emotional reality within their own narration. The further back that Thought is in the process, the more self aware the narration is.
Action is the reference point, since it describes what is happening externally. The position of Action in the rank determines how well-reasoned and/or true to themselves the characters actions tend to be.
Thought determines whether a character has consciously processed their situation. whether a character’s Actions are intentional or impulsive depends on whether Thought comes before Action
Feeling is the point at which an emotion registers strongly enough for the character to be aware of it. Feelings are always the intrinsic driver of Action, but characters may act on subconscious cues before the emotion itself registers. if Action occurs before Feeling, the character would tend to be confused by their own actions
the speed and intensity of Feeling varies by class and can determine, generally, how early Feeling shows up, and from there how quickly Feeling moves to Action. the proximity of Feeling to Knowledge determines the energy level of the narration
Knowledge determines the point at which the character internally understands something — whether a character is aware of the motivations for their own actions, even if it’s not something they’ve consciously thought through.
The position of Knowledge in the rank determines a character’s level of certainty:
if Thought comes before Knowledge, the character will question themselves in their narration and often reach understanding through the narration. On the other hand, if Knowledge comes before Thought, then the character may play their cards close to their chest and conceal things they know in their narration
If Knowledge comes before Feeling, then the character may be basing their understanding on certain assumptions, which may cloud their ability to correctly interpret their feelings later on.
if Action comes before Knowledge, then the character is likely to make decisions they regret in the long term.
1. Maid
Feeling > Action > Knowledge > Thought
Maids, in the moment, tend to act purely on emotion. As Feeling comes before Action, the Maid isn’t confused about why they’ve done something, even if they tend to be unable to express their reasoning at the time. They tend to need to process the situation internally and reach an understanding (Knowledge) before they are able to consciously express anything (Thoughts). As such, Maid characters generally act true to their feelings whether or not it turns out to be a good decision. But they make shitty narrators unless it is retrospective, in which case they have an Agenda in how they’re telling it.
2. Sylph
Knowledge > Feeling > Action > Thought
Sylphs are fascinating. Knowledge comes first, because Sylphs start from a place of certainty in their own convictions, which interferes with their ability to honestly interpret their own reactions. Action coming after both Knowledge and Feeling means that Sylphs feel extremely sure in their actions, even if impulsive. As a narrator, Sylphs are extremely confident, however the distance between Knowledge and Thought makes them highly unreliable as they are unable to reflect and change their minds from where they started, giving them a blind spot.
3. Knight
Feeling > Thought > Action > Knowledge
This ranking helps to characterise the precise nature of Knights’ often flawed decision making. Feeling is the primary driver, giving them a surety and conviction in their actions. Thought comes before Action, meaning they aren’t necessarily impulsive, they tend to brood extensively before making their decisions. However, despite the conviction they have in their decisions, as Knowledge is last, they end up regretting their decisions, as they haven’t fully understood the situation. They make fairly entertaining characters to follow, as you can sympathise with their reasons but also watch in horror as they make terrible decisions.
4. Page
Action > Thought > Feeling > Knowledge
Pages are the most confused!! They act impulsively, and without being able to identify the feeling. Their actions always run ahead of their decision making, and then they spend a lot of time pondering their own actions and trying to figure out how they feel. Their understanding of things is often very belated, requiring them to come to terms with all of their emotions and actions before they can feel genuinely certain about things. As narrators they provide a lot of material to work with, as they are constantly processing their own actions, and take the audience through the entire process of discovering their feelings and coming to an understanding of them. Page monologuing.
interesting feature i keep forgetting to write down about pages is the befriend-recruit-release pattern. aka a page encountering someone, extending a life-changing influence on them thus recruiting them into the page harem, and then just moving on. presumably then the person becomes Part Of The Harem and part of the page’s social sphere or their team or whatever. but there’s repeated storylines in media of the consequences for people left behind once the page moves on and they’re unable to follow. bob from percy jackson is an excellent example of this? like the page does not REALISE that they’ve set someone on a new path, inspired their utter love and devotion, and then just dumped them? like it’s just what pages DO and page just goes oh yeah that’s a friend that i helped once!! but yeah there’s something to this pattern that i need to ponder about , about where it should fit in the wider description of the page class
ok ok ok i really need to hash out if the prospit derse thing has any credence
in favour:
1. there’s no coherent explanation for either p/d nor for +/- aspects. so if p/d inherently linked to +/- then it would make sense as a system?
2. intuitively +/- is not straightforwardly positive negative but it’s definitely SOMETHING, and dumbass/edgy does seem like a plausible characteristic to group them.
3. there really needs to be some pattern to aspect leanings imo so this is a definite possible solution
so um,
positive: light heart space breath hope life
negative: void mind time blood rage doom
the theory is that prospit/derse means you lean towards +/- respectively in general wrt all aspects. it also may account for a fucked up relationship with aspect if your aspect is contradictory to your leaning.
ok so we need to case study this shit. it makes intuitive sense but i need to try and find an exception.
bts r valid bc there’s no knight and there’s no sylph. no bard either. witch is super selfless. maid already established and respected. page in a good position to be nurtured. thief in a good position to be bullied and also nurtured. they’re rlly set up for perfection. damn
It was when I hit this part of the document that I was seriously questioning myself. I wrote this entirely in order, no references, no discussion with anyone. In a tiny window on my desktop at work. Why the fuck do I just have this sitting in my brain. But anyway. Last group.
Tier 3: The Opposite Problem
9. Thieves
(After writing out the whole Thief explanation I'm moving them all the way up to #9 because on average they're more constipated than the ones below, even if they're some of the least constipated most of the time.)
Thieves are a tricky one, but also not at all. Because the Thief framework makes no sense, but within that framework they are very, very predictable. But the framework puts the Thief's emotional constipation level in flux.
The Thief pattern is extremely straightforward: they only care to protect themselves, and what they consider Theirs. So if their entire community is considered "Theirs" in the Thief's eyes, then congratulations, the entire community benefits. But if the Thief has been taught (as is often the case with Thief characters) that only a select few are considered "Me & Mine", then they will act without any hesitation or remorse to protect their own interests. If others suffer in the process, to the Thief, it's an unfortunate but necessary sacrifice.
However, in addition to this framework is the One Exception: someone that the Thief loves unconditionally, and relates to them on extremely Normal Fucking Person terms. They are the one person who falls outside of that "Me & Mine" mentality. For story purposes this is usually the romantic partner.
(I had a whole explanation about the One Exception pattern but it was very long and more relevant to the Thief class description so I took it out.)
So for the most part, the Thief is usually pretty straightforward in their intentions with anyone they're interested in. Thieves have a lot of charisma, and so they can depend on that to draw their partner in. They don't really fear rejection except as a blow to their ego, which can be dangerous for the other party as a Thief can and will seek revenge for a perceived slight to their dominance. But the revenge seeking is an impersonal, calculated thing, not stemming from a raw sense of hurt.
They may be more hesitant if the person they're pursuing is their One Exception, since they will be genuinely afraid of rejection. Again: everything about their relationship with their One Exception is Extremely Fucking Normal. Which is so contrary to everything else that the Thief does that it makes no sense? But nevertheless. The framework holds. That's just how it works.
So they're 0 emotionally constipated, except for the one time that they actually care, in which case they are just precisely as constipated as their individual experiences would lead them to be -- which is usually a bit higher than a Normal Fucking Amount, because Thieves usually have a tragic backstory to justify their damage.
So it averages out; they get to go right under our Normal Fucking People classes, but above those classes who have no bars on chasing romantic interest.
Rank 10: Witches
Now we're in the tier of people who will consistently and actively pursue/initiate relationships.
Witches are easily identified as the shouty, punchy ones, who feel emotions very strongly. So it makes sense that Witches are easy to pick up on their feelings, and pretty uncomplicated in going about getting what they want. They're strongly active in all senses of the word, so they're go-getters on the relationship front.
Witches tend to be naturally more self aware and sensible than Heirs, though, so they may be more likely to stop and pick a right moment before charging ahead. But that will make them take time to pick their moment, not to make them stop.
The problem Witches may initially encounter is in being too pushy, and may inadvertently pressure their partners into whatever they want. Their strong will can tend to overpower their partner, and a less assertive partner might be unable to speak up in the face of that.
However, the Witch outlook generally isn't one that tolerates an unwilling partner for too long -- Witches value assertiveness in their partners; a lack of assertiveness is perhaps the least attractive thing to a Witch. So if a Witch had a partner who was disinterested, the partner would ideally be able to stand up to the Witch and make their opinion known, thus ending the relationship. If the disinterested partner is too weak-willed to stand up to the Witch and cut the cord, then the Witch may lose interest and end the relationship anyway. Even if the Witch still likes this person, if their partner can't even bring themself to a confrontation about their unhappiness, then the relationship probably isn't worth fighting for.
On the other hand, it's not uncommon to see a Witch who has undergone some of their character journey to back all the way up and be paralyzed with self doubt. The negotiation with the confidence with their assertiveness is the central focus of the Witch arc, so it's natural for a Witch at different points in their arc to have different levels of confidence in that regard.
But generally speaking, a Witch doesn't have issues with knowing their feelings and acting on them, and that's what puts them this far down the list.
Rank 11: Heirs
After reconsidering, Heirs go all the way at the bottom actually!
Heirs, being the epitome of No Thoughts, Head Empty, are open and obvious when they have feelings. Outwardly, they're the textbook example of Someone With A Crush. However, they do this without always consciously processing that they have feelings? Heirs project their emotions loudly, so it's the case that other people will clue into their feelings before the Heir themself. That doesn't stop them though.
This attitude makes Heirs a good choice for a first person narrator in romance stories, because the Heir will act on their feelings without consciously realising it. They'll dote on their crush, spend all their time thinking about them, feel jealous, and get closer to their crush, all while not realising that a) that's a crush and b) they're being super fucking obvious to anyone with eyes.
Because of that, Heirs are really good relationship starters. Their honesty with their emotions allow the relationship to develop naturally and at the exact pace that they're feeling those feelings. Since their demonstrations are 100% just about how they're feeling, and with zero expectations of the other party, they're a good class to pair with classes who are more hesitant about acting on their feelings, or who need more time.
But on the other end of that dial, that means that Heirs may sometimes push their emotions onto people who aren't ready for them. They're so consistently oblivious to what's going on outside of Expressing How They're Feeling, that they can make the other party uncomfortable with their persistent displays of affection. In order to be a good partner, an Heir will need to learn to consider the other party's feelings before they go ahead and express how they're feeling.
Their obliviousness can also make them vulnerable to manipulation; their lack of understanding of their emotions may get them pushed into a relationship they're not ready for. The Heir is really just, raw emotional output; the outcome usually depends on the other person.
So overall, the Heir's goal in this regard would be to develop and maintain an awareness of the situation and to consider the feelings of others before they go ahead and express their emotions. It's the opposite problem from emotional constipation, really. More like emotional diarrhoea.
Rank 12: Princes
Our final destination. Honestly this position as Least Emotionally Constipated is probably more honorary than actual, as Princes in general are Pretty Fucking Constipated in all regards. But by the terms of this list, the Prince approach wins on being the least filtered, the least subtle, and the most assertive.
The joke is that Princes are the incel class, and while we Don't Do That Anymore because calling an entire class incels is not good practice and is just not a nice thing to do, there's a reason for the stereotype. Princes feel their feelings strongly, they know what they want, and they will pursue what they want, with no necessary consideration for the other party or the situation.
There's really not much else to say here: unlike Witches, Princes don't care too much about the relative assertiveness of their partner. Unlike Heirs, Princes are usually well aware of their emotions and maintain a tight control over their own actions and their relationship status.
So the Prince, especially early in their character arc, would have no qualms pursuing someone that they liked, with zero regard to the other person's level of reciprocity, or whether it's an appropriate situation to be expressing interest. The Prince would get frustrated if they felt that their advances were not being taken seriously and double down on their efforts in order to force the other party to see their point of view. Add to that the Prince tendency to jump to seizing control as a solution to things not going their way. Thus, the incel thing.
Overcoming this self-centred approach is very much a central focus of the Prince arc. So naturally, like with Witches, a Prince progressing on their arc can very well retreat entirely from this reaction and display extreme hesitance as they figure out the best way to balance their emotions with the situation. It's all about the learning process.
Like we say over and over again -- and this applies to all classes -- when we describe "class behaviours" we are merely describing instinctive tendencies that people will display early in their arc, or if they're never given a reason to change their behaviour. The extent to which an individual will display their class's characteristics will vary heavily based on the individual context, and every person is capable of becoming aware of their own strengths and weaknesses and working towards becoming the best version of themself.
So that’s it for this updated ranking list, jfc it’s been coming for a while. I’ll leave the old list up with an edit at the top, since it’s iconic, even if the ranking is updated.
I probably should also mention that I haven’t really edited these -- there’s some stuff that I definitely need to reconsider my wording for. But also it’s fucking cold and I just want to do this because I promised myself I would.
Tier 2: Normal Fucking People (aka, people who are normal about this. I completely don’t get it.)
Rank 4: Mages
Mages used to be higher up on this list but tbh despite the initial impression they do pretty well for themselves? Mages tend to be fairly quiet about their own emotions, and do a fair bit of overthinking and angsting, but they usually manage to spit it out and from there everything is ok.
Mages and Pages can commiserate on the premature overthinking front. Like Mages are just generally emotionally withdrawn people, they love passionately but they tend to get consumed in Other Shit Going On, and their emotions just, fall by the wayside. It's a tragic story, really. But not a complicated one.
Mages do strike you as the kind of person who would rank in the same category as Pages and Maids in terms of neglecting their emotions, self sabotaging their relationships with self doubt, etc. They are whiners and complainers and so it SEEMS like they're absolutely going to drag this out. And if the opportunity never comes upon them, the situation can stall.
But Mages, in precisely the manner of their class, manage to do it when the situation is upon them. In the moment, they're able to do the right things, choke out their feelings, and Get That Relationship. The moment usually does come, and Mages' intuitions help them to seize the right moment for emotional honesty. And they manage it. Maybe imperfectly, but perfectly them, and perfectly what is needed for the situation to progress.
But because they're Mages, after that they of course go back to their normal self, and of course they cannot for the life of them articulate WHAT exactly happened for them to be able to overcome their fears in that moment. It just happened. And now they're in a relationship and happy.
(Can you tell that I'm a Page. I'm baffled and frustrated. I want to stab them. EXPLAIN.)
In terms of later on in the relationship, Mages withdrawn and generally passive attitude can be a hindrance, as they're likely to go along with their partner's lead. So initially they may be easily led into an unwanted breakup, be pushed away, or land in a situation that's just not great, depending on their partner. The Mage will have to develop a more active drive, to push forward with what their gut is telling them and to ACT.
Rank 5: Rogues
Now we are comfortably in the tier of people who are normal about the prospect of relationships. As in they can just. Like a person. And not be insane about it. Or only a normal amount of insane about it.
Anyway Rogues get this tier due to their passivity. Rogues will like a person, be aware of it, and just. Do nothing. They're deeply chill about the reality of Having Emotions.
(Page commentary: FUCKING BAFFLING)
Okay there's more to it than just that. So Rogues just do not feel any sort of forward drive to push their romantic feelings into a relationship. They're happy to lie their feelings just sit there and die. Or if they like the other person, to just go along at the other person's pace.
This does not mean they don't experience any emotional angst at all. Some Rogues do sit in their feelings and agonise and daydream (I think possibly Prospit vs Derse Rogues but it might be an individual thing). Rogues are also in the category of whiny people, and so some Rogues WILL agonise about their feelings and their crush etc etc etc. But the key thing is, all that whingeing does not prompt them to any initiative in progressing the relationship.
The most I've seen a Rogue ever do is agonise to the point that he felt he needed to confess his feelings to his crush, not so she could consider dating him, but just to get it off his chest. And he just did it? He just called her up to meet and just told her and that was it? And he continued to have a crush on her all throughout highschool and they just never interacted any more or any less than the casual acquaintances that they were before that.
(MORE PAGE BAFFLED SCREAMING)
It's confusing I don't get it. Moving on.
On the flip side, if their partner is in the later rankings of people who will initiate the relationship, then the Rogue is easily and willingly led, with little conflict. There's just zero drama at all it's so underwhelming that it's huge. How the fuck are they so chill about this.
The cognitive dissonance is because Rogues are bitchy and whiny people about small things but overwhelmingly chill about big things, and so yeah, whining about a crush is a small thing, getting officially into a relationship is a big thing. So by Rogue logic, yeah getting into a relationship? It just happened, no drama, nothing. NO THOUGHTS AT ALL. I suppose it's a helpful way to know how serious a Rogue is about their feelings. The less they complain about it, the more serious they are.
Sigh.
Rank 6: Sylphs
I think Sylphs fall perfectly on level ground here. They're the ultimate Normal Fucking People about crushes. Like, they'll have a crush. They'll agonise about it a normal amount. They'll consider options a normal amount. They'll act on it a normal amount.
The fucked up thing about them then is just all the other stuff about Sylphs that inevitably spills over into their romantic life. Aka their choice of romantic partner, usually. And how they deal with conflict.
Like there's just not too much to be said about Sylphs when it comes to the getting into a relationship part -- they'll be aware that they like a person, they'll decide to wait for a good time to say it, they'll say it with positive intentions, and then they'll accept the outcome, however the other person feels. They won't hide their feelings for self-invented reasons, they won't overly agonise about whether the other person returns their feelings or whether it's the right circumstances. If there's an opening they'll go for it proactively, they won't just sit back and wait for the moment to be thrust upon them. They're just. Perfectly Fucking Normal about that part.
But ok the part that causes them problems is just part of Sylph arc in general. (I really need to get my shit together on the Sylph class description post because I'm still struggling to articulate fully what exactly this phenomenon is.)
Basically the Sylph pattern is that their minds will NOT be changed by the opinions of others. Meaning that if they have a good opinion of someone, they will refuse to reconsider their opinion until they witness something first-hand to change their mind. They are stubbornly resistant to any external input, and essentially refuse to believe any perspective other than their own.
This attitude is already vulnerable to manipulation with a Sylph's friendships, but in the context of an exclusive relationship, where people already tend to hold their own opinions of their partner above that of others, the Sylph's stubbornness can very easily be their downfall. Sylphs are be incredibly resistant to any input from others about their partner or their relationship.
If, say, their partner did something shitty, and the Sylph's friends pointed it out, the Sylph would refuse to believe them and demand firsthand evidence. They might say, "it's not that I don't believe you, but I prefer to wait until [partner] has shown me firsthand that they're a shit person before I judge them." And they might go on to make excuses for their partner or interpret their partner's actions favourably. In the cases where their partner is wise to the situation, if the partner consistently presents a good front to the Sylph, the Sylph would go on believing them.
(I am aware of my bias against Sylphs due to a) terrible personal experience and b) completely not understanding them at all. I’m working on it.)
If their partner is a fine person then that's never a problem so this problem is situational. Plus it's not specific to romantic relationships so that's why the Sylph isn't higher on this list.
Rank 7: Seers
Not Gonna Lie, Seers are definitely still largely a mystery to me. Because they conduct themselves incredibly straightforwardly, but I've not been able to really dig into their psyche? Anyway Seers rank just below Sylphs here because they're just fine, as far as I can tell? They don't have particular hang-ups about realising their own feelings; that part goes relatively smoothly.
Seers are the ultimate Thinkers, so they're best poised to know the best time to confess. As part of Seer arc, Seers do suffer from the impulse to ACT on their knowledge, which for romantic relationships will mostly serve them well in initiating the confessing etc when the time is mostly right. They don't get overly worked up in the process, in fact Seers can often be hilariously shameless. The complications that come with Seers and being too active don't come too much into play. Being shameless and forward can really get you places in the romantic sphere, unlike in other areas. In moderation though. Always in moderation.
However, it is possible for Seers, in relying too much on their own judgment, to assume they understand the situation much better than they actually do. Their confidence in their own viewpoint can lead them to jumping to conclusions about the other party's feelings, and pre-emptively acting on that knowledge rather than sitting back to let things play out.
Later on in their arc, once the self doubt has set in, they may also be prone to overthinking, and like Pages, hang back from taking action. But I feel like those are more just normal problems to have in the courtship process, and not that specific to Seers. All part of the Seer's path to self knowledge and knowing when to rely on their instincts and when to exercise their common sense.
Rank 8: Bards
?????????????????????????????????????????
Not to be that person about Bards again but. ?????????
Bards get into relationships. Somehow?
In my limited experience, Bards are 100% willing to be the one to confess and initiate relationships. Usually everyone, including the other party, is more than slightly baffled about HOW the b=Bard managed to develop feelings. Their crush makes sense on paper in a way but not really? It's a, *nods head slowly like it makes sense but actually it doesn't really compute* kind of situation.
Plus Bards tend to have very inconsistent energy (a Bard has described the internal process to me as a genuine constant switching of opinions and indecisiveness, so they themselves don't really understand what the driver is) and so from the outside it can feel like they don't really like their partner sometimes? Sometimes it's obvious they DO, but other times you're left baffled about why they chose to pursue this person.
Just purely as an outside observer it's fascinating and makes no goddamn sense. But that's pretty much everything to do with Bards.
