Since it's hot in WMMAP fandom, here. Let me drop this on you.
The media and content you consume doesn't necessarily have to define you and your morals as a person. There's a difference between liking something in fiction and supporting them in real life.
What writers write in this fandom (yeah, I know I've seen AO3 and Wattpad. I am friends with a lot of authors in this fandom. Hi Lithium, hi Wyrn, hi Toi, hi Alice, hi Maple, hi Vejita, hi Alyss, hi Beer, and a lot more I can't name so this post won't derail) doesn't mean they condone what they write in real life. How many times does it take for everyone to understand? Go outside, get some fresh air.
Don't like, don't read. Scroll away. Push that back button. Stop the hate, this is fanfiction not a thesis. This ain't a psychological journal. If you don't like a work, it means it's not for you and you're not the targeted audience.
This fandom is already full of drama, don't add more fuel to the fire. Mind your own business. Don't cyberbully just because you don't like something in the fandom.
“It means it’s not for you and you’re not the targeted audience” then who is, then? The minors that make up the fandom? The people who read it and get off to it? Who get off to the content that was created, despite knowing that it’s a literal child and her father??? I’m sorry, but writing detailed child porn of a girl and her father in a fandom geared mostly to minors, I’m going to have to question the “not the intended audience”. They knew full well what they were going into, both the writers and readers, if the synopsis, tags, and first chapters weren’t enough. This is both faults, but mostly the writers for contributing to disgusting content knowing what their audience is like and who will mostly come across and read it.
By going by this logic of, “the content you consume does not nevissarily describe the person you are in real life”. So if someone is watching CP and getting off to it, they’re not supporting it? That’s bullshit.
The writers, if not supporters, are enablers. They wrote it, and then saw the reaction to their work. Instead of thinking they’ve got it wrong for getting off to it, they keep going and write more. They know how many people support the downright illegal writing and content, yet continue to add to it.
Why, hi there.
First thing first, this is hilarious. Are you seriously telling me that we, people on the internet, HAVE to cater to your needs as a minor when you have every means possible to just NOT look at the content?
Because the fandom is filled with minors?
C’mon hun, it’s 2021. Use another argument will you? First thing first, no. This WMMAP is geared for GENERAL AUDIENCES. You know who made General Audience? Adults, Minors, everyone. WE can do whatever we want, write whatever we want, because why, it’s fiction!
Besides, here. I’ll tell you something.
See this here?
THIS WORK COULD HAVE ADULT CONTENT. IF YOU PROCEED YOU HAVE AGREED THAT YOU ARE WILLING TO SEE SUCH A CONTENT.
So pray tell, what are you, or other minors doing in our work after seeing this warning? We EXPLICITLY tagged our work as so, placed the ratings and warnings as such, so we WON’T trigger anyone, or make any minors see it.
They knew full well what they were going into, both the writers and readers, if the synopsis, tags, and first chapters weren’t enough. This is both faults, but mostly the writers for contributing to disgusting content knowing what their audience is like and who will mostly come across and read it.
And you say this is the writer’s fault too for producing “such content” even after everything we did to WARN you, and you pressed “I AGREE” anyway in Ao3?
Quoted from damnfandomproblems:
It’s no one’s job to take care of you on the internet, not even if you’re a minor. We’re not your babysitter, and we’re not going to pick up the role just cause you’re bugging and tweaking on main. The world does not revolve around you, the fictional world does not revolve around you, and you need to learn to tell the difference between being triggered and being uncomfortable.
Fandom and fiction are for enjoyment and exploration, right? Then stop acting like you’re one of the Puritains and quit policing people and what they indulge in when you could easily avoid seeing the things you don’t want to see by simply blocking and blacklisting.
Fiction is not reality. Fiction is not your reality, and it’d be best if you learned that.
What makes you think what we write isn’t wrong? Of course it’s wrong. CP is wrong, Abuse is wrong, porn is wrong. But we know better than to do what we write in real life.
Quoted from PoisonousFandom: YOU TAKE IT KNOWING IT'S WRONG BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU WON'T DO THE SAME IRL. A lot of fics also tags it as a warning (that means it's BAD and shouldn't be used as a model irl).
You know what is wrong though? Harassing authors and artists for their work even though they warned you about it.
This still??? Doesn’t excuse the fact that they CONTINUE to contribute to it despite knowing people get off to it??? And you still haven’t answered what the target audience even is??? If you’re writing smut between a child and her father, the first question is why? Would you even think that’s right? The second is why would you even contribute to normalizing content around it? Third is why, even after seeing hundreds of people supporting the father and daughter smut, you continue to add to it??? How do you even support your friends for writing it? For even thinking of it? “Hey, I write smut between a daughter and her father while she’s still a minor”, that doesn’t sound wrong at all??? And cyber bullying, really. There was a call out post, calling out how screwed up it is that people would ship a father and daughter together, and write about them committing incestuous acts. That’s cyberbullying? Calling out something so screwed up and disgusting? And then it was only when many people started to notice it, that any action was taken? Doesn’t that just further prove that it was wrong since the beginning??? And it was never just one person who has the trauma, it was a lot of people. Many people are disgusted and horrified.
And even then, you’re still invalidating the trauma millions of people have people with it say it’s wrong, and then proceed to say “sorry about your trauma, but we don’t care and should be allowed to keep writing this”.
You know that all your readers are getting off to it. They’re not reading it for the intention you wrote it at all (trying to emphasize how disgusting it is) but instead reading it to further fantasize about a father and daughter committing downright illegal acts. You know your audience is now completely losing the point, but do you ever stop or try to correct something so wrong? Not a “hey this isn’t the point, it’s disgusting , you’re supposed to be disgusted” but instead a, “I know right? Next chapter there will be even more steamy moments”.
The fact that these authors only started putting disclaimers AFTER being finally called out on it contributes to it. It’s like an afterthought. Writing detailed ways to torture someone to the point it’s hyper realistic and sickening, being called out on how it’s messed up, then only mentioning after “oh, but I don’t support it”. And the way they’re written? There’s no negative light it’s put in. In fact, the characters who stumble upon it and say it’s wrong became the villains, or joining it instead. This is what’s messed up. It was portraying it so positively, even within the writing. No one was against it, or even trying to say those acts are atrocious. The people who did were painted as villains. This doesn’t sound messed up at all?
There were main issues with it. 1) Writing it knowing the content is detailed descriptions of a father grooming his child in a way where it seems ok. 2) Writing it with the intention of displaying how fucked it is, but your audience completely confuses it and only thirsts over and supports it, and then not correcting them at all UNTIL being called out. 3) Writing it in the way where anyone opposing those disgusting actions were evil. “Fiction isn’t reality”, which is true, but you’ve forgotten that fiction affects reality. We see it everyday. You knew full well that minors, who are easily and very impressionable and still don’t know right from wrong even as older teens, would read it. WMMAP was geared to general audiences, yes, but the same can be said about MLP. Winx Club. They’re geared to general audiences, but their fanbase is made up of children. You’ve seen the social media. Instagram, Discord, you know that most that read it aren’t adults with fully concious and thinking brains. Heck, even the adults who read don’t think. You know that the people who stumble across it aren’t the intelligent people who know it’s wrong. You know it’s people who will support it, because you know the fanbase. But still contribute and add to it despite knowing that. It’s like writing smut between Twilight and her Elder Brother in MLP and writing in depth smut to show it’s wrong. You know the fanbase is filled with children who can’t bleed the lines and figure it out. The first thing they’ll see is the paragraphs upon paragraphs of them screwing each other without anyone pointing out how fucked it is. That’s what everyone who reads it, sees.
“It’s not our obligation to babysit you”, it isn’t. But it’s also not your obligation to keep writing it after knowing how many people support it. Fiction isn’t reality, but affects and has influence on reality. If you produce downright illegal content, it’s fine right? A father and daughter, having sex. It’s fine if it’s detailed, right? Because, it’s fiction after all. The same can be said about art of a man fucking a child. The child’s enjoying it, so it’s fine, right? It was never geared to people against it. It was geared to people who support it. Fiction is for enjoyment and exploration, but not when it’s enjoying porn of a father and daughter, who is still a child. You’re even admitting that people get off to it, and that there’s nothing wrong with it. Nothing wrong with people getting off to a father fucking his underage daughter, and her enjoying it. Fiction isn’t reality, but it affects reality. “If my dad does this, I’m supposed to enjoy this”. “If my parental figure does this, it’s fine because it isn’t wrong.” That’s what people think when reading this sort of crap.
“So many people are supporting it, so I’m in the wrong for thinking it’s messed up.”
Fiction isn’t reality, but it affects reality. You’re painting the people who called out the disgusting writing as wrong, portraying the people in the stories who found it disgusting, ‘villains’. Is it that hard to see how wrong it is, and how wrong it is to support it???
If your friend who’s making this sort of content starts to think “this is straying from my original idea of making it disgusting, and people are instead taking pleasure in the smut”, as a friend, your first obligation? Is to say it’s wrong. Clarify before it gets worse, that you’re trying to make it disgusting. This is the same as all the youtubers coming out to be criminals. Their fans are affected by the fictional content, the videos and enjoyment they received from it, and defend them. They can’t see it’s wrong. The audience can’t see it’s wrong, but instead support it. They see the person they saw on the screen as the person they’re defending, despite not knowing the person at all. Fiction isn’t reality, but it heavily affects reality. The whole point of enjoying a character and story is relating to yourself, to reality. You can’t say fiction doesn’t effect reality.
First thing first, sorry for the delay. I just got off work and I need to organize my words before replying to your post.
To answer your question on WHO the target audience for those fanfictions: ADULTS. Yes, adults, who KNOWS that it is FICTION. That this is UNREAL, and knows how bad this is in reality but enjoys reading, nonetheless because not every writing is for enjoyment. Some just write because it incites discussion—critical thinking. The reader can say, "Wow! That father is really shitty for doing that," and that's a valid reaction. Not every writing means they support it or condones it.
Did the writer say it’s right?
Did the writer say ‘yaaasss enjoy incest/rape/(insert term here) y’all it’s great!’?
No, because the author was already expecting YOU, AN ADULT, SHOULDN'T DO THAT. They were expecting their readers to be adults who KNOWS that shouldn't be the case and shouldn't really be a topic of contention besides actually criticizing the nature of the character in fiction.
The internet should be taken with a grain of salt. Why do facts need to be double-checked, but when it comes to situations like these, everyone assumes the content MUST be the truth? Without questioning themselves: is this something I should do?
Writers tagged the fics so you people KNOW what you’re getting into, and if you enter the story knowing what is waiting for you, is it the writer’s fault? No it isn’t. You have every meaning to go away, scroll away and have a great time.
It's like taking an English Literary Course in highschool, like Grade 10 or 11, if you're in North America. However, in the case of, let's say, Ao3 where you can give consent, the same may not apply in highscool class. Based on an actual experience, the teacher gives you "1984" by Geroge Orwell or "The Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood. You are assigned to read the latter. The book does not have tags placed as warnings, nor does it mention any triggers or problematic content on its cover. Upon reading, you'll see the book has classism, segregation, rape, abortion, homophobia (and hanging) among other things. Does the fictional book encourage you to be classist and homophobic to your peers? Are you influenced to do the same after reading? No, because Adults expected you to look at the literary piece with critical thinking; to question if such things are acceptable and discuss if such things are acceptable. Truly, not everything you read will be for enjoyment.
(How about criticizing books too? You know, since books doesn’t have tags on it nor have the author’s warning on the cover about the contents inside? Easier access too)
"Minors have the excuse of no experience and underdeveloped brains who haven't fully understood that something is horrible." Where are their guardians, if they are so helpless? This is also so ethnocentric. In Asia depending on the varying cultures, compared to America, some are expected to be an adult at a younger age. When a family is actively involved in the child's life, for example: Filipino, Malay, or Indonesian culture (those are ones I can testify), then you have a very tight-knit, and strict family disciplining you on how to grow up and be an adult; that includes what's to be expected from them and what they shouldn't do. You also have minors on twitter (reminder that Twitter actually only allows 13 years of age and older, but younger people still bypass that) letting adults know they actually know better than adults expected of them.
The more you try to protect and hide contents from children, the more they will become curious and research it privately.
In the end, all you want is for the writers in this fandom to stop writing your so said “disgusting” fics, yes? Sadly, that won’t happen. Because nobody has the right to say what is wrong and what is right for another. What you say, disgusting, yes I agree some topics written are wrong IN REALITY and if it’s in fics, do what you want truly. Do I support? no. Do I encourage? also no. Why didn’t I stop them? Who has the right to tell anyone what to do, do I pay them for their silence in FICTION?
Fictions affects reality? Depends. Can YOU distinguish which is right and wrong?
Where does the responsibility lie? We can't always look after everyone when people see themselves so differently. The only way adults can do is to curate their work behidn adult consent, and yet people still ignore it for 'curiosity'. What, then, happens to the people who follow with maturity? You're gatekeeping them from a discussion and limiting the fandom to a puritan view catered only to a select few.
And if you see everything as a kink/something to jack off/ turn on someone when the reader's perspective is not that way, then maybe YOU have to re-evaluate why you're thinking that way. The best people can do is curate their own experience online with blocking, blacklisting, and filtering. Thus is why I say, why do you keep saying ‘getting off’?? Is everything sexual to you? Are you okay?
This is what’s messed up. It was portraying it so positively, even within the writing. No one was against it, or even trying to say those acts are atrocious. The people who did were painted as villains. This doesn’t sound messed up at all?
No, personally, people who speak up against this topic isn’t villains in my eyes. You have an opinion; I have an opinion, we argue. It’s perfectly normal to have an opinion as someone who has a brain.
But if you have something you disagree on, why not DM the author directly instead of coming into public space like this? Giving them constructive criticism, not saying “you’re disgusting for writing this” in a public space. THIS is cyberbullying, no matter what you say for you being in the right.
Opinions are opinions, HOW you convey that opinion, is another matter entirely.
Since this is getting long and I have to prepare for work again, these will be my last words:
You do not have to read a topic you're uncomfortable about to make a statement that it's wrong. In fact, if you're a minor who also has minors following you in social media, not only are you harming yourself by taking in media you know you shouldn't, but you're also exposing your followers (who may not even know such contents exist) to it. And then what happens if they, too, get curious, since you say they're such a curious bunch? Then it becomes a chain.
If you can participate civilly and discuss why an element is wrong without harassing content creators, we encourage you to do so. That's critical, progressive thinking. With that, we know you're learning expected societal morals and are a decent human being.
Your safety matters, too. Hence, we encourage you to create your own online experience. There are definitely assholes out there, so we ask you limit your interaction with adults online if you're a minor. However, it is also not good to generalize an age group because of a minority. Some of us would be glad to explain the history and connotations of such harmful elements.
If you think fiction influence reality, please do a double take. There are many factors in which fiction, aka. FANFICTION only isn’t going to make someone do incest immediately. Knowing the boundaries helps a lot in maturity.
It’s not an afterthought, instead, writers are surprised too that people NEEDS to know it’s not for minors despite the prior tags being available to read?
NO ONE WAS SAYING ANYTHJNG AGAINST IT BECAUSE WE ALL ALREDY KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT AS AN ADULT. THAT THIS IS FICTION AND SHOULDN'TBE APPLIED IRL. Why would writers deliberately harm you? We gain nothing from it.
"Knowing how many people support it." Care to show me the statistics and research reports in this fandom? Is it support, or is it your biased view? We are not in a p*rn doujin site nor P***hub where the sole purpose of those webs are to get you off sexually.
If you cannot question what you read online, then the internet is not for you. FANFICTIONS are not moral standard. Spend your time in understanding books, lectures, etc. Talk with other people to understand plenty of viewpoints.
This shall be my last reply, because I feel like no matter what I say it won’t get through. I am open to private discussion in dms, I will reply as soon as I can.
Have a great day ahead! (don’t tag in wmmap please, I don’t want to flood the tag with discourse).
I’m inclined to believe you have no actual idea exactly what your friends wrote, and how they were perceived. You’d know exactly what I was referring to throughout my response then.
I used ‘getting off’ because that’s exactly what all the comments under their works were. It wasn’t just me, it was everyone who read it. Toisiit had claimed their intention of writing it was to display how disgusting it was, referenced from their public apology. Yet, most if not all of the comments under their work were consisted of praise and arousal to the featured characters interactions.
Comments like, “sorry Lucas, but papa Claude is too hot!”, “I’m going to hell for loving this”, “that last line was so, very hot”.
And toisiits responses to those? Despite saying the fic was to display how disgusting it is? “AHHAHAHAH it’s golden isn’t it?”, “yes, we do love our sexy papa Claude”, “yes, the true forbidden ship~”. Toisiit claimed that it was just to be nice, but honestly? That’s encouraging them. Especially when they said their whole reason of writing it was to portray how disgusting it was.
I’ve only seen the bare minimum of three people in those comments ever saying how disgusting it was. And you know what one was responded with? A whole essay saying how they were screwed up for thinking they supported it. What else is there to think? It’s smut of a father and daughter on a fan fiction website. If your works is glorifying it and painting it in a positive light, what is the reader supposed to think? That you don’t support it???
You can’t compare fanfiction smut to literal EDUCATIONAL books. You go to academia to learn and be taught. You go on sights like AO3 to be entertained, not to put on thinking glasses. Proof of this? All the people who supported the work and the people who didn’t were defending how it’s ‘a forbidden ship’ and not ‘showing how disgusting it is irl’. No one saw it as that. And no one corrected them.
And what I was talking about by villains? Felix in Toisiit’s work stumbled upon them and was disgusted. What happened to him? He joined them. Jennette in another work stumbled upon them? She was locked away, raped, and killed. That’s what I meant by, ‘within the story, the people who found it wrong were treated as villains or later contributed to it’. The ‘forbidden ship’ was portrayed as something good, as the heroes. That’s what was wrong.
No one clarified what the intention was. There was no disclaimer of “this is supposed to make you feel disgusted” anywhere, and it was never reinforced by the authors’ responses. There’s nothing else to think other than ‘they support it’. And it’s the truth, isn’t it? They do support it, they like how a daughter and father look together despite how sickening it is. It’s not harming anyone, but it still means you liked the concept of a father and daughter screwing each other, especially when she’s a child.
And having the excuse of, ‘minors will find it anyway so might as well still make it’ is crap. The problem was, is that it was made and that it entertained people in the first place. People are entertained with the idea of a father and daughter consummating. Even if it’s fiction, it’s screwed up. Just because you and I can tell the difference doesn’t mean everyone will, and is the whole reason why it’s a problem.
I apologize if I come across very angered and passionate about it, and I am. I just can’t figure out how any of it appeals to anyone.
