Yeah, it's 2026. I'm not changing my text wall ways either. Actually, they've gotten worse.
I typically let Ike womp womping on the sub-human bit at first and not putting the idea of "sub" and "human" together as a case of plot hole writing. I love Tellius to pieces, but I realize they're susceptible to mistakes and silly errors like anything else. It always does come across as weird about Ike, and I have absolutely questioned why Greil never brought laguz up to Ike when he was born in Gallia. I feel like that could've been explained somehow if they'd actually bothered to cover the topic of why Greil never told him. I do think it's very plausible that the memory/memories could've been wiped, but if so they should've told us at some point. If anything, it's a plausible explanation that I'd guess they:
just totally forgot about by RD's script with the reveal being that far into the game
they just didn't think of it and it's a convenient thing we can wave off because of other details
it was meant to be something implied with the rest of the memory wipe and we were meant to assume that was the case
Honestlyyyy I'm gonna guess it's 2 and a case of a writing accident.
See who is missing from the FE9 cast?
Also worth noting, but Soren's supports with Stefan are basically him being very adamant on sticking with Ike. He shows no growth in his supports with Stefan, as compared to other characters who speak to another character of another face. While I realize Soren does have growth with Ike and they're different races, Soren's limited support chains make that difficult, and even more so when he has no growth outside of his relationship with Ike.
And I mean, ultimately, it's fine if that's the case because it's meant to be his character. But nobody can say he just grew out of his racism because of Ike. While Ranulf really didn't seem to give a shit whether Soren liked him and the others or not, Ike did care because those are his friends. Soren wouldn't have been all that willing to help them if Ike hadn't pressed him.
Meanwhile you get Shinon right around that exact same time in his base conversation, going back and forth with sub-human and laguz, which for him, that alone is growth. He would've never uttered the word "laguz" in early PoR. The fact that he's on board with being there at all and then also using the proper name for them is already more than Soren's expressed, and Soren's a main character with ample lines of dialogue.
has Ike warn her that he will not tolerate her calling Laguz sub-humans on his party, otherwise he will tell her goodbye
Exceptions made for Shinon because he wanted him back so bad. 🤣
(Half joking ofc, bc Ike did correct him when he was drunk and said sub-human again, but Ike literally fought for Shinon to come back, so I don't think he was gonna get too cranky about it. Especially given that he probably knew if Shinon wasn't gonna do it organically, there was no pushing him into it. Also, like... it's Shinon. Asshole is gonna asshole. 🤣)
See, when it comes to Lethe's behavior, I can reason with Soren getting pissed off and becoming defensive. I realize her attitude struck a nerve in him, and his response was to bite back in a "see how you like it" way. She shat on them and called them "human", which is basically their form of a slur (confirmed by Ranulf), and so he did the same thing back, and look how she reacted.
Technically, she initiated violence first. She insulted them, nobody became violent, and Soren instead used the exact same tactic/insults on her, and her first response was to not just attack them, but try to have the guy who had nothing to do with the insult battle attack them. I don't blame Soren in this case because all he did was exactly what she did to them without violence. So basically, she expected them to just take it, but when it's turned on her and she gets a taste of her medicine, she becomes violent.
Also, if I'm being fair, Lethe went on a massive tangent for absolutely no reason, and ignored Mordecai's attempt to get her to knock it off. Soren said one pretty immature thing in comparison with a couple slur drops in response to her own. Also, Ike was being kind and apologetic, and Lethe just went on and on. So at least in this case, I can't really fault Soren for going at her with the same attitude. She had the audacity to call them human, and then get pissed off when she got called a sub-human.
To be specific, after Lethe uses "human" several times, and Soren says "sub-human" once...
Lethe: Those who use that name are enemies of Gallia!
Ike: Really? It's an insult to be called human? I'm glad you told me. I would never have guessed.
Ranulf: I should warn you, if you run across any laguz who call you that, be careful. They are no friend of yours.
In other words, rules for thee but not for me, and Lethe was no friend of his.
I do realize she apologized later for it, but her first instinct was to demean these people who her king had told her to assist. Her apology also only happened because Mordecai felt bad that he hurt Ike, neither of which were involved in the spat. She wouldn't have apologized if Soren got hurt, despite that he only basically repeated her own attitude back to her. And if Soren got hurt, that would just cause more problems that, you know, her king very much did not want.
That said, no, someone calling you a slur doesn't mean you call them a slur back, because that slur covers all people of that race and insults all of them in turn, but my point here being that Soren's reaction was understandable, especially knowing his reasons for hating laguz and her literally, in his mind based on his experiences, proving him right.
That said, I do think there's an argument to be made that Soren isn't quite racist in and of itself, because he just hates everyone who isn't Ike and a few others who are allowed into his "tolerated" category (because of his past), but using slurs for another race still does count toward the racist ticket. I feel like that, while he expressed deep contempt for humans, it's never nearly as notable as it is with laguz. That, of course, may coincide with the fact that the way laguz treated him as a kid made him feel worse than how humans treated him. In general I would say that yeah, he does just hate everyone, because he's pretty damning about beorc, too. It's just that he also is more harsh with laguz.
That all being said, I circle back to my point that Tellius characters are a lot more complex than being able to be whittled to "I hate them because they're racist".
Anyway, poor fucking Mordecai. Dude was just tryna vibe.
SEE NOW if you're gonna bring up Tales and racism... I say Rebirth nailed it. Annie was racist as hell in the beginning, and Mao didn't put up with it, even though Eugene, the victim of it, did. I owe my sweet baby Rebirth a replay, so I don't remember all the dialogue super smoothly, but I don't recall Veigue being very comfortable with the racism, either. But Annie got better and got close to Eugene, realizing she was misguided in her thinking. Soren doesn't ever feel that way. He stays static. He doesn't care, because he only cares about Ike.
THAT SAID, I'm not under the impression that the writers for Tellius necessarily meant to make it look or seem like Soren got better in that department. It's more that fans just defend him because he's the local gay twink and let his racism slide because of it. Shinon's not a twink and speaks his mind.
I also get the feeling that, as blunt as this sounds, a lot of folks are sheep to morality dialogue and don't think for themselves or think critically (especially if it's something confirming their biases). When Titania scolds Shinon for caring about money, it always came across as extremely wtf to me. If they need money for survival and are already low on money generally, that tells me that as individuals, they're pretty fucking poor. Shinon even asks what's wrong with living well. And that's the thing. There's... nothing wrong with living well and working a job for, you know, money. But uwu morality and working for dirt cheap to be a good person. But being a good person wasn't putting food on their plates.
I think a lot of my love for Shinon also came from all the nudgy dialogue. He was an outcast, even in his own group. It makes sense that without Greil, he had nothing to really stay for. Rolf had his family. He didn't need Shinon the same way. Shinon just wanted to help a child be able to survive in an unforgiving world. Shinon's a realist though. He doesn't get held back by "morals", and being a good person won't ensure his survival.
He's not gonna be the worst person ever because of that, but if being too kind is a threat to his survival for any reason, he's not wrong to just... want to survive. Thus, he goes where the money is until he truly realizes the GMs are his home and they do care about him as more than just a body to fulfill jobs (minus Soren, who did actually see him as a replaceable body. Unfortunately, Soren, that was objectively not true and you can't just replace a master archer like that........).
But also, yeah, back to your Soren point, "we had a bad day" isn't really an excuse for calling someone a slur. All that tells me is someone is showing who they really are because they have no control over themselves from the stress and aggravation (i.e. no matter how stressed Ike was, he didn't use that name now that he knew what it meant, and when he did use it with Ranulf initially, he immediately felt bad and apologized. Stress doesn't make you racist).
Personally, I think Soren owed no personal apology to Lethe though. That's just me of course, because she provoked the whole thing and didn't apologize because she herself realized she was in the wrong. It's because the situation turned around and bit her in the ass when the guy she was ordered by the king himself to protect got hurt.
Should Soren apologize in earnest to Mordecai though? Yeah, absolutely. If anything, it could've prompted Mordecai to explain how sad it made him and made him Soren see that not all laguz are the same ones who shunned him and made him feel like nothing. Aren't all like Lethe who will just walk up and hurl insults at you simply for existing. Soren should've had supports with Mordecai, honestly. I think that would've be the best way to get Soren to grow. Ranulf won't work because he's a romantic threat, and RD just hammered that in, so RD Soren was still salty.
As far as Soren's RD supports go, no, he never uses the word laguz at all, in any of his supports. Shinon does. Soren's dialogue, particularly his A supports, are also more geared toward "we need your strength", versus Shinon's dialogue, which is hope for his support partner's survival across the board, including with laguz.
Shinon: You know, I’m not one for making friends and being nice. But, Caineghis, I gotta say, you are one bad laguz. In a good way! Hang in there.
Soren: King Caineghis, please do not die. You must hang on and help us scale this impenetrable wall of battle.
Shinon: You know, I really don’t care who lives and who dies. But, Hawk King, for a laguz– hey, for anyone–you seem pretty decent. I hope you make it.
(Adding "for anyone" here also indicates that he's separating from the idea of Tibarn as "a laguz". He's seeing Tibarn as just Tibarn. He's seeing him as just another guy in the mix, race being unimportant to him.)
Soren: King Tibarn, you simply mustn’t die. We need you at every step along this battle-torn way.
Reyson and Rafiel (and maybe Kurthnaga?):
Shinon: I gotta admit… I didn’t like you when I first met you. But, Prince _, I hope you make it through all this. I was wrong about you.
Soren: Prince _, please don’t die. We need you now more than ever as the fight heats up.
Shinon: You know, I never thought I’d say this, but… King _, I’m thinkin’ you should live. Don’t ask me why! Just a crazy notion. Maybe I like you?
(Would you catch him dead saying he had any fondness for a laguz in PoR? Mmmm nope.)
Soren: King Naesala, please don’t die. We need your battle support now more than ever.
(There are two people simply called "King _" for Shinon, but I'm pretty sure the second "King" is for Pelleas? I'm not sure why Soren's specifies Naesala and Shinon's doesn't, but Soren's refers to Naesala and then his next one is just "King _", so I'm under the assumption that the first one in Shinon's list is also Naesala. I never support Shinon with anyone but Janaff, so I haven't seen it personally. 🤪)
Shinon: You know, I try to stay out of relationships. And I’m not saying I want a relationship. But, Princess _, I do hope you live.
Soren: Princess _, please hang on! We need you at every step along this war-torn path. Don’t die now!
Other assorted laguz get more generic dialogue, but those are the specific/designated laguz cases. Also worth noting though that Shinon's generic dialogue with laguz partners easily could've gotten something personalized if the devs thought he really shouldn't care so much about them. The fact that it's the same generic lines as other characters means there was no point in personalizing it because Shinon sees his laguz support partners the same way he sees his beorc support partners.
So yeah, Shinon has significantly more growth than Soren, both as a character and in his growth toward laguz. Shinon's supports express genuine care for them with no hesitation. He's not acting all tsun or being a jerk about it. He's past that. He doesn't find it embarrassing to accept and embrace them now. RD Shinon changed a lot from PoR honestly, in a lot of aspects. He's a lot more chilled out, and also a lot more open about his non-negative thoughts/feelings (i.e. he'd express angry thoughts no problem, but he'd make excuses for kindness). He doesn't care about being the best anymore, or he wouldn't have told Rolf to "be better than him" in archery. He also doesn't want credit for his kindness. He doesn't want Rolf to give him anything back for his kindness, and he makes bows to sell to Aimee for money for the GMs when they're on funds, and does so without any fanare. Just does it on his own without telling anyone. Not because he's trying to be super secretive about it, but because he doesn't feel the need to tell everyone, "hey look at all my good deeds". He does good things because he's a good person. He's a good person that doesn't need recognition for being good. Imo he's honestly one of the kindest people out there because of that.
Contrast to Soren, whose growth is questionable at best if it does exists. Soren has realized Ranulf and co aren't threats to himself or Ike, so he tolerates them versus hates them and isn't "high strung" around them anymore, because he knows he can relax around them.
Again, I don't hate Soren, so nobody can whine at me saying I'm just a hater, because Soren is among my favorites in Tellius. In fact, he said a line in PoR that I repeat religiously and have been doing so since I was a little kid because it was a banger line that was so true to irl and is so true in modern day 2026 society that it deserves to be carved into an important building as a memorial. It's not relevant to this post though. :P
Ingrid's not a gay twink, so she doesn't get an automatic pass. Oboro, same thing.
I view Soren's backstory as giving us reasons why, but I do think it becomes questionable that it's not addressed properly why he never really... overcame that. Someone as hardcore racist as Shinon used to be overcame it to the point of, well, you saw above. I feel like, even given Soren's past, there was no real reason for him to not be more friendly to at least Mordecai and Ranulf, who were both the kindest and the ones he knew the longest. Maybe not necessarily all that close to the Herons, but he could've at least acknowledged they were good people. Or, well, okay, maybe not Rafiel. I don't think he'd give Rafiel a pass after Rafiel went to Micaiah's side against them LMAO. But Reyson? Leanne? No Soren Hall Pass?
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