that poll asking what media introduced you to dragons is giving me an existential crisis. I talked to my mother about this. neither of us can remembering being introduced to the idea of dragons
it's like asking what introduced you to horses or flowers or clouds. they're just a thing you know about!
Whatever it was it definitely wasnât anything from the poll. Like I wasnât old enough to read when The Hobbit was first read to me but I knew about dwarves and elves and dragons already for sure.
Description: A massive, dragon-like leech, with horns and a sucker mouth.
Myth: Two rival shamans entered a battle, each one assuming the form of a dragon. One assumed the form of a horned serpent while the other became a weewilmekq, a dragon leech. The battle raged on in the water until at last there was a victor, the weewilmekq had drained his opponent dry.
Facts:
The Weewilmekq was said to live in a deep rushing water, such as whirlpools or the bases of waterfalls.
Some descriptions make it out to be more sturgeon-like than leech-like.
Iâve seen this image (or variations of it) passed off as weewilmekq, to the extent that itâs become the defining image of it. Thereâs only one problem though.
This is not a weewilmekq.
The original image that itâs based on is this, from Myths and Legends of the New York State Iroquois (1908) by H. M. Maxwell.
And what it shows is the Iroquois horned serpent, not a weewilmekq.
Why, then, has it become associated with it? Easy! First of all, because a slightly retouched version is pasted across the pages of the weewilmekq section in Shukerâs Dragons: a Natural History.
And why was it chosen for that purpose? Because in Meurgerâs Lake Monster Traditions, this image of the horned serpent (labeled as such, I must add), is on the page opposite the one where the weewilmekq is discussed!
Thereâs a lot of poor scholarship in Dragons: a Natural History unfortunatelyâŠ
Thank you for the terminology correction regarding shaman vs medicine man.
For the sake of clarity regarding this blog, I use the term âdragonâ as a stand in for any serpent (snake, reptile, or culturally similar creature) in mythology or folklore, because I feel that there isnât a difference between snakes/similar creatures and âTrue Dragonsâ when it comes to mythology. Honestly, this blog is probably better named âSnakes-And-Similar-Creatures-In-Culture Discourse,â but that name is rather clunky.
Description: A massive, dragon-like leech, with horns and a sucker mouth.
Myth: Two rival shamans entered a battle, each one assuming the form of a dragon. One assumed the form of a horned serpent while the other became a weewilmekq, a dragon leech. The battle raged on in the water until at last there was a victor, the weewilmekq had drained his opponent dry.
Facts:
The Weewilmekq was said to live in a deep rushing water, such as whirlpools or the bases of waterfalls.
Some descriptions make it out to be more sturgeon-like than leech-like.
Iâve seen this image (or variations of it) passed off as weewilmekq, to the extent that itâs become the defining image of it. Thereâs only one problem though.
This is not a weewilmekq.
The original image that itâs based on is this, from Myths and Legends of the New York State Iroquois (1908) by H. M. Maxwell.
And what it shows is the Iroquois horned serpent, not a weewilmekq.
Why, then, has it become associated with it? Easy! First of all, because a slightly retouched version is pasted across the pages of the weewilmekq section in Shukerâs Dragons: a Natural History.
And why was it chosen for that purpose? Because in Meurgerâs Lake Monster Traditions, this image of the horned serpent (labeled as such, I must add), is on the page opposite the one where the weewilmekq is discussed!
Thereâs a lot of poor scholarship in Dragons: a Natural History unfortunatelyâŠ
What is the Chaoskampf? Chaoskampf, German for Struggle with Chaos, was coined by Hermann Gunkel in 1895 and ascribed to the recurring motif of a God or Cultural Hero battling a Chaos Monster, usually a serpentine or draconic one personifying chaos or the ocean. The myth is then frequently followed by an act of creation. In this post, Iâm going to introduce you to some examples of this recurring theme from across cultures.
Given how old this motif is, itâs believed to have existed in the Proto-Indo-European cultures, with this myth being reconstructed based on their descendants. A recurring thread in this myth is to have the dragon or serpent be associated with the waters, while the god is often associated with Storms and Lightning. As a result, it is the reconstructed PIE God of Weather Perkwunos who is said to be the enemy of the PIE Serpent.
I didnât know that the Chinese also had a Chaoskampf myth.
Whatâs also interesting is the cattle raiding myth. While there are a ton of storm gods fighting serpents, thereâs also a lot of heroes fighting serpents to free cattle thatâs been stolen, with water or rescued princesses often having a cow motove to them in Chaoskampf derived myths.
Also what has to be said about Tiamat is her extreme hesitation to fight against the gods. First she refuses to allow Apsu to kill the gods, and even after his death, her children have to invoke the danger that Marduk poses to them before she does anything against him, who is also her descendant.
Sources:
Bruce Lincoln (1976), The Indo-European Cattle-Raiding Myth, History of Religions Volume 16, Number 1, https://doi.org/10.1086/462755, https://www.jstor.org/stable/1062296
Veles as chaos dragon is highly debatable and controversial, from what I understood.
Also connecting Xiangliu, Yamata no Orochi, and Cipactli to the chaoskampf seems to be a stretch. Unless every instance of Eurasian dragon-slaying is now an echo of the chaoskampf. Which I guess could be arguedâŠ
I donât disagree that itâs stretch, though I do think itâs worth discussing and looking into how this motif, which is very connected to the PIE myths, has similar occurrences elsewhere in the world. So I suppose it becomes a matter of which parts of the motif are mandatory for it to be considered part of it. I think arguments can be made that Chaoskampf should:
Only be used for PIE myths.
Be used more globally.
Not be used as a term at all, and instead the myths should just be described and compared.
I also think itâs interesting to look at how it compares with other Dragonslayer or Dragon Enemy myths, such as the animosity between Thunderbirds and Horned Serpents seen in Native American cultures. Also how it compares to other creation myths when it has a creative aspect. I have a pet theory (though even thatâs too strong a term, itâs more a âhuhâ that circles around my head) regarding Ymir in this regard that Iâll expand on once Iâm home.
Iâm home so hereâs my pet theory. Note that this isnât anything proven or firm, more something that makes me go âhuhâ then mourn the fact that our information about Norse Myth comes about after they already converted to Christianity.
Ymir is a being born from Chaos or Nothingness, who births the race of Giants by sweating, and is then slain by the gods and used to create the earth. Heâs also born from the Eitr created from melting ice, with Eitr being a word for poison, and is sometimes said to be produced by snakes. So Ymir is a chaos being born from snake venom.
Once again, not saying Ymir is a dragon, but I wish this was something I could look into more easily, because I do think itâs an interesting blend of motifs.
What is the Chaoskampf? Chaoskampf, German for Struggle with Chaos, was coined by Hermann Gunkel in 1895 and ascribed to the recurring motif of a God or Cultural Hero battling a Chaos Monster, usually a serpentine or draconic one personifying chaos or the ocean. The myth is then frequently followed by an act of creation. In this post, Iâm going to introduce you to some examples of this recurring theme from across cultures.
Given how old this motif is, itâs believed to have existed in the Proto-Indo-European cultures, with this myth being reconstructed based on their descendants. A recurring thread in this myth is to have the dragon or serpent be associated with the waters, while the god is often associated with Storms and Lightning. As a result, it is the reconstructed PIE God of Weather Perkwunos who is said to be the enemy of the PIE Serpent.
In this case Quetzalcoatl would serve as one of the sky gods who slew Cipactli, albeit one who is serpentine (and arguably Draconic, depending on your personal requirements for that qualifier) himself.
What is the Chaoskampf? Chaoskampf, German for Struggle with Chaos, was coined by Hermann Gunkel in 1895 and ascribed to the recurring motif of a God or Cultural Hero battling a Chaos Monster, usually a serpentine or draconic one personifying chaos or the ocean. The myth is then frequently followed by an act of creation. In this post, Iâm going to introduce you to some examples of this recurring theme from across cultures.
Given how old this motif is, itâs believed to have existed in the Proto-Indo-European cultures, with this myth being reconstructed based on their descendants. A recurring thread in this myth is to have the dragon or serpent be associated with the waters, while the god is often associated with Storms and Lightning. As a result, it is the reconstructed PIE God of Weather Perkwunos who is said to be the enemy of the PIE Serpent.
I didnât know that the Chinese also had a Chaoskampf myth.
Whatâs also interesting is the cattle raiding myth. While there are a ton of storm gods fighting serpents, thereâs also a lot of heroes fighting serpents to free cattle thatâs been stolen, with water or rescued princesses often having a cow motove to them in Chaoskampf derived myths.
Also what has to be said about Tiamat is her extreme hesitation to fight against the gods. First she refuses to allow Apsu to kill the gods, and even after his death, her children have to invoke the danger that Marduk poses to them before she does anything against him, who is also her descendant.
Sources:
Bruce Lincoln (1976), The Indo-European Cattle-Raiding Myth, History of Religions Volume 16, Number 1, https://doi.org/10.1086/462755, https://www.jstor.org/stable/1062296
Veles as chaos dragon is highly debatable and controversial, from what I understood.
Also connecting Xiangliu, Yamata no Orochi, and Cipactli to the chaoskampf seems to be a stretch. Unless every instance of Eurasian dragon-slaying is now an echo of the chaoskampf. Which I guess could be arguedâŠ
I donât disagree that itâs stretch, though I do think itâs worth discussing and looking into how this motif, which is very connected to the PIE myths, has similar occurrences elsewhere in the world. So I suppose it becomes a matter of which parts of the motif are mandatory for it to be considered part of it. I think arguments can be made that Chaoskampf should:
Only be used for PIE myths.
Be used more globally.
Not be used as a term at all, and instead the myths should just be described and compared.
I also think itâs interesting to look at how it compares with other Dragonslayer or Dragon Enemy myths, such as the animosity between Thunderbirds and Horned Serpents seen in Native American cultures. Also how it compares to other creation myths when it has a creative aspect. I have a pet theory (though even thatâs too strong a term, itâs more a âhuhâ that circles around my head) regarding Ymir in this regard that Iâll expand on once Iâm home.
What is the Chaoskampf? Chaoskampf, German for Struggle with Chaos, was coined by Hermann Gunkel in 1895 and ascribed to the recurring motif of a God or Cultural Hero battling a Chaos Monster, usually a serpentine or draconic one personifying chaos or the ocean. The myth is then frequently followed by an act of creation. In this post, Iâm going to introduce you to some examples of this recurring theme from across cultures.
Given how old this motif is, itâs believed to have existed in the Proto-Indo-European cultures, with this myth being reconstructed based on their descendants. A recurring thread in this myth is to have the dragon or serpent be associated with the waters, while the god is often associated with Storms and Lightning. As a result, it is the reconstructed PIE God of Weather Perkwunos who is said to be the enemy of the PIE Serpent.
Tiamat
Tiamat is the Goddess of Salt Waters in Mesopotamian mythology, said to be the mother of the gods with her consort Apsu/Abzu, the God of Sweet (Fresh) Waters. When Abzu was slain by their children after they learned he was plotting to kill them, Tiamat few into a rage, birthing dragons and monsters to battle the gods. Marduk, the Patron Deity of Babylon, fought Tiamat with the four winds and with arrows, finally slaying her. After her death, her body was used to create the world.
Tiamatâs exact form is unknown, with some debating if she truly would have been something draconic. The description given of her grants a tail, an utter, and a thigh, to she may have been a partially bestial being.
Lotan
In Canaanite Mythology, Lotan is the servant or zoomorphic form of Yamm, the god of the sea. When Yam became the King of the Gods, Baâal Hadad, a storm god, stood against him, seeking to be King instead. Hadad succeeds in his fight, and usurps Yammâs place.
Leviathan
The Leviathan is an offshoot of the Chaoskampf motif, though perhaps one that is not readily apparent. God does not need to slay or tame the sea serpent to gain control over creation, it is something he already possesses. But the Leviathan still serves a role as the personification of chaos and the sea, and Godâs creation and dominion over it (and eventual slaying of it) is used to represent the same theme that the Dragonslayer version does.
Leviathanâs name seems connected to Lotan, with both sharing similar roots and referring to a coiling, twisting creature.
Also found in Hebrew Mythology are Rahab and Tannin, who are sea monsters akin to the Leviathan, also said to be defeated by God.
Illuyanka
Illuyanka, found in Hittite Mythology, was the enemy of Taráž«unz, Hittite God of the Sky and Storms. There are two versions of this story. In the first, Illuyanka is tricked into getting drunk before being slain. In the second, a mortal assists the defeated storm god by seducing Illuyankaâs daughter, freeing the god so that he can fight and slay the dragon.
Apep
Found in Egyptian Mythology, Apep is the serpent of chaos who dwells in the Egyptian underworld, seeking to devour Ra as he traveled through the underworld at night. He was battled by numerous gods to prevent him from doing so, including Set, a chaotic force in his own right, though one associated with storms. Apep has multiple origins in myth, with some claiming him to be the umbilical cord of Ra, while others state he always inhabited the waters of chaos.Â
Typhon
Typhon was the enemy of Zeus in Greek myth, being created by Gaia to defeat the gods. Interestingly, Typhon shares some things with two of the previous entries in this post. In many versions of his myth, he manages to defeat Zeus and steal pieces of his body, as Illuyanka did with Taráž«unz. As with that myth, a mortal assists Zeus.
Additionally, the Greeks equated Typhon with the Egyptian Set, the chaotic slayer of Apep.
Typhon himself was described as a monstrous humanoid, with wings and serpents for legs. He had hundreds of dragon heads, which let loose the cries of all sorts of wild beasts. He also did not have much water associations, but rather was considered more Chthonic and associated with storms.
He was created by Gaia to usurp Zeusâ role as King, which has him playing into the theme of defeating the dragon being an act of validation for the king of the gods.
Vritra
Vritra was serpentine personification of drought in Hinduism, In the Vedas, he was said to hold back the waters, causing a drought until he was slain by the storm god Indra. In the Puranas, the story has him defeating Indra, not unlike Typhonâs defeat of Zeus, before being slain in a subsequent battle.
In addition to his role as a drought monster, Vritra was the son of Danu, the goddess said to personify primordial waters.
Xiangliu
A venomous, nine headed snake said to bring floods, Xiangliu was the minister of Gonggong, another draconic being from Chinese Mythology, with both being blamed for the Great Flood. The slayer of Xiangliu varies, with some saying he was killed by Yu the Great, and other saying he and Gonggong were killed by the fire god Zhurong.
Yamata-no-Orochi
Hailing from Japan, Yamata-no-Orochi is the enemy of Susanoo, the Shinto Storm God and brother of Amaterasu. Depicted as an eight headed and tailed serpent or dragon, Yamata-no-Orochi would feed upon the daughters of a family every year, until only one daughter remained.
Yamata-no-Orochi was lured into drinking eight barrels of sake, and once drunk the dragon was sliced to pieces by Susanoo. The sword Grass Cutter was found within the serpentâs tail.
Cipactli
Traveling all the way to the Aztecs, we meet Cipactli. Cipactli was a crocodilian or toad-like monster, covered in mouths and said to live in the primordial waters. The gods, wishing to create the world, lured Cipactli in and slew her, creating the earth from her body.
Veles
Veles was a Slavic god of water, livestock, the underworld, and earth. Associated with bears and serpents, he was said to be the enemy of Perun, the Slavic Storm Deity.
Jormungandr
Jormungandr, the world serpent, is the child of Loki and a sea monster so large he can encircle the entire world. His enemy is Thor, the god of thunder, and when Ragnarok comes the two of them will slay one another.
I think my last comment was a little dismissive of Yamata-no-Orochi, I am absolutely a fan and I'm glad that at least one serpent without a direct connection to proto-indo-european mythology is still in it.
I'm supporting Tiamat for the finals. All four potential match-ups for her are gonna be rough ones.
Typhon might be the weakest, but Leviathan and Jormagandr have a lot of name recognition. And the weebs are gonna go real hard for Yamata-no-Orochi.
It's still anyone's game.
It is a shame how many lesser known ones were eliminated earlier on, but I think our remaining ones are looking tight.
titsay
ellievsbear
andulkaphoto
discoholicmusic
snowghoul
baratheonpilled
