you're a kendall expert, can you explain why kendall said those things to rava on their dinner date? did he think those were convincing arguments? did he think they'd be back together within the week? what was his plan lmao
anon god i'm so glad you asked, i'm a bit obsessed with how kendall sees his relationships to other people. also the shiv tangents i go on were super necessary yes.
it all really goes back to kendall:
1. not existing as a person on his own, or, only being able to exist in terms of other people [WHY he said it], but
2. loving people the most when they don't love him back, or, only being able to accept conditional love [why he said it like THAT].
kendall does say it best himself.
it applies to just about anyone close to him though. for god's sake, he married in his early 20's, had children not long after. he rushed into the role of a husband and a father and inevitably fucked it up, but tried time and time again to still maintain it.
kendall at his core has no concept of the self; he doesn't have an identity, and he has no idea who he is beyond the titles he can be assigned. that's one of the reasons logan calling him his son is so effective. he needs to be a son. he needs to be a brother, a partner, but never just kendall by himself. and that's one of the reasons his 3.09 breakdown was so devastating to him. if he doesn't feel connected to anyone, who is he? no one. he's not real anymore.
i believe this is actually the fundamental difference between how kendall and shiv operate -- while shiv is constantly forced into having a role, into being a function for other people (tom's wife and could-be mother to his children, the token woman, the only daughter, the little sister) despite not wanting it, kendall both needs and wants it.
(when kendall asked shiv to take care of him? that i think was one of the most vulnerable and truest to him ways he could have shown his love and trust for shiv.
it's like this: i ask you to be this, for me. this is me saying that you have a purpose, and it's me saying you are real to me. i trust you enough to find meaning in me even when i can't possibly find it myself.
of course, that's not how shiv sees it, but it is how kendall's internal belief system justifies it.)
ok. going back to kendall and rava’s dinner date. all that considered, this is, in principle, kendall asking rava in the shittiest possible way if he could have a purpose. (considering logan was in a very fragile health, it does double as a fail-safe.)
kendall's consistently bad with words when he's riding out a high, like he was in lifeboats. if you were to strip everything down purely to intent though, the conversation is just kendall being incredibly and pathetically desperate for rava to give him back his role of husband-and-father. the wording of it, though–
brings me to the second point. kendall’s biggest paradox is that he wants to be loved so, so fucking bad. but. he doesn't react well when someone actually loves him.
it's a funny little coping mechanism that's there in place so he can convince himself that logan does love him, of course he does,
thing is, if someone genuinely does love him, that means he would have to face what that actually looks like. it means having a comparison to what logan’s love looks like.
ergo, self-sabotage.
ok. let's take the most obvious example there is. stewy.
in prague, stewy says it very plainly, as a casual statement. it's not a grand confession of love. it's a simple fact of life that he must have thrown around to no response from kendall before. neither of them are surprised by the other, but kendall still hates it.
stewy says, i love you, kendall. and kendall really, really doesn't like that. kendall says, fuck stewy, stewy will follow the money like a dog in a cartoon.
back to rava. pre-nuptial. rava shows genuine care and concern for kendall’s well-being. god, she offers him her love on a silver platter after finding coke smeared on his lapel. she came back to him, she fucking came back to him after everything. and kendall’s very first instinct is to push her off.
-and, yeah, of course you have to also factor in the context of the failed vote for the first one, and for both kendall’s relapse and how shitty of a subject it is for him and the irritability that tends to go with coming down. as much of a factor as is kendall’s consistency with having a very warped view of what constitutes love.
(am i really saying that naomi and kendall’s relationship would have either been rockier or not lasted as long if she said i love you back, and she knew that? potentially. maybe.)
kendall can't accept unconditional love, but he needs to be loved, so instead, he interprets and embraces all that hurts him as real love.
i mean, i'm not even going into logan, given that all of this is as i said a defence mechanism that exists to delude kendall into thinking his daddy loves him.
that aside, the most obvious example of course is the disruption. sophie iwobi does a segment dedicated to telling everyone how shitty kendall roy is, and kendall says, she fucking loves me. kendall thinks, this is exactly what love is. (and, later on. hurt me! do you worst! kendall roy, at his core, is someone who desperately needs to be loved.)
a really interesting one though is kendall & shiv, 2.10-3.02.
it’s heavily implied that kendall’s aware that shiv chose to protect tom in place of kendall being sacrificed for cruises. kendall also insists that shiv is the one who truly matters to him and the one he truly wants on his side. (going back to giving someone purpose as a way of showing trust and love, here.)
it's like this: kendall now knows that he does have his sister’s love, and he knows because she allowed for him to be killed off to save tom.
so. when rava says she doesn't love him, that's as good as a love confession it gets for him.
you love me because you're still here and you care enough to tell me so. you have to love me because you came back to me and because you hate what i did.
no, of course kendall doesn't think of rava as the dog, but the mentality will forever be ingrained at the back of his mind. you don't have to be happy, what matters is that i'm happy, right? and, hey. guess fucking what. she did come back after that. he tells her her happiness doesn't matter and they fuck soon after, of course he just proved that she does love him. of course he won't be able to let go and move on after that. (right up until what i mentioned in pre-nuptial, that is.)
stewy s2-s3. summer palace, oh, kendall kicked him hard, the hardest he's ever done so. stewy shows how hurt he is, lashes back out. makes it clear it's over for them. argestes, and kendall’s just so fast in trying to fall right back into their old ways. as your friend, stewy. you're my friend after this, aren't you? bestie shit. yea. (and stewy does still continue to protect kendall after that in a quieter way (kendall roy is irrelevant//ken’s board seat-rejecting the offer), so really. he just proved to kendall that his world view really isn't flawed.)
what i'm really saying is, kendall doesn't know how to express love the right way, either. his leading example of how to get people to stay is what he has to, has to believe is his father's love.
If you just read this once I insist you go back and read it again. Holy shit.
This is so tragic because Kendall is Logan’s dog and would never want to be the one pushing people away to see if they’ll come back like he does 😭
Separately, the idea that Naomi gets his entire psyche enough not to say I love you because she actually does and knows he thinks love is abuse, and if she just doesn’t say it then he’ll feel it… fuck. Truly the best explanation I’ve ever heard for this.
He feels like if he just makes Rava happy that’s not real love, but if she’s unhappy and stays with him then he can accept that as love. When she WAS happy with him, he did drugs until she was not. But he can’t stand the idea of her leaving because he really does love her. Also in his world, when you love someone you never really leave no matter what. The idea that she would actually leave for real and not come back is too devastating (but don’t worry because she does come back at Shiv’s wedding- and at his birthday party!).
The parallel with Rava and Logan where Logan keeps him around but is not happy with him, and that’s what he learned love is, so he’s trying to make Rava be like that 🥺 Also, Kendall is not happy with Logan, but up until the point of his talk with Rava, he has always stayed with him anyway because he loves him. So he’s thinking, why wouldn’t Rava keep doing the same for me? That’s love!
The idea that all of this is a way to make Logan’s “love expression” make sense is the saddest thing I’ve ever heard. And yet HE KNOWS it’s the wrong kind of love expression, but the idea that Logan doesn’t love him is worse than anything. But I think Italy is when he realized and tried to process that Logan doesn’t really love him- not the way he needs anyway. It’s why he didn’t care what happened in the pool and why he was finally okay with actually, finally taking Logan out. Not to earn his respect this time, but because he finally understood after their conversation at the table. This is the worst. And the best. Going to stare at the wall now.
Great interview with Jeremy Strong in The Atlantic:
I have infinite respect for anyone who has the kind of courage to be willing to make a fool of themselves on a set,” he said, chuckling—as in, someone such as himself.
- Jeremy Strong
Stephen Graham, who plays Springsteen’s father in flashbacks, described Strong as “like a magpie.” “And he’s right,” Strong said; both the bird and the actor are “just collecting, scavenging for anything. And you don’t even know, really, what you’re looking for.”
I just hope that deep inside he knows there's a lot of people who admire his devotion and caring and were encouraged by his approach to life and art.
you're a kendall expert, can you explain why kendall said those things to rava on their dinner date? did he think those were convincing arguments? did he think they'd be back together within the week? what was his plan lmao
anon god i'm so glad you asked, i'm a bit obsessed with how kendall sees his relationships to other people. also the shiv tangents i go on were super necessary yes.
it all really goes back to kendall:
1. not existing as a person on his own, or, only being able to exist in terms of other people [WHY he said it], but
2. loving people the most when they don't love him back, or, only being able to accept conditional love [why he said it like THAT].
kendall does say it best himself.
it applies to just about anyone close to him though. for god's sake, he married in his early 20's, had children not long after. he rushed into the role of a husband and a father and inevitably fucked it up, but tried time and time again to still maintain it.
kendall at his core has no concept of the self; he doesn't have an identity, and he has no idea who he is beyond the titles he can be assigned. that's one of the reasons logan calling him his son is so effective. he needs to be a son. he needs to be a brother, a partner, but never just kendall by himself. and that's one of the reasons his 3.09 breakdown was so devastating to him. if he doesn't feel connected to anyone, who is he? no one. he's not real anymore.
i believe this is actually the fundamental difference between how kendall and shiv operate -- while shiv is constantly forced into having a role, into being a function for other people (tom's wife and could-be mother to his children, the token woman, the only daughter, the little sister) despite not wanting it, kendall both needs and wants it.
(when kendall asked shiv to take care of him? that i think was one of the most vulnerable and truest to him ways he could have shown his love and trust for shiv.
it's like this: i ask you to be this, for me. this is me saying that you have a purpose, and it's me saying you are real to me. i trust you enough to find meaning in me even when i can't possibly find it myself.
of course, that's not how shiv sees it, but it is how kendall's internal belief system justifies it.)
ok. going back to kendall and rava’s dinner date. all that considered, this is, in principle, kendall asking rava in the shittiest possible way if he could have a purpose. (considering logan was in a very fragile health, it does double as a fail-safe.)
kendall's consistently bad with words when he's riding out a high, like he was in lifeboats. if you were to strip everything down purely to intent though, the conversation is just kendall being incredibly and pathetically desperate for rava to give him back his role of husband-and-father. the wording of it, though–
brings me to the second point. kendall’s biggest paradox is that he wants to be loved so, so fucking bad. but. he doesn't react well when someone actually loves him.
it's a funny little coping mechanism that's there in place so he can convince himself that logan does love him, of course he does,
thing is, if someone genuinely does love him, that means he would have to face what that actually looks like. it means having a comparison to what logan’s love looks like.
ergo, self-sabotage.
ok. let's take the most obvious example there is. stewy.
in prague, stewy says it very plainly, as a casual statement. it's not a grand confession of love. it's a simple fact of life that he must have thrown around to no response from kendall before. neither of them are surprised by the other, but kendall still hates it.
stewy says, i love you, kendall. and kendall really, really doesn't like that. kendall says, fuck stewy, stewy will follow the money like a dog in a cartoon.
back to rava. pre-nuptial. rava shows genuine care and concern for kendall’s well-being. god, she offers him her love on a silver platter after finding coke smeared on his lapel. she came back to him, she fucking came back to him after everything. and kendall’s very first instinct is to push her off.
-and, yeah, of course you have to also factor in the context of the failed vote for the first one, and for both kendall’s relapse and how shitty of a subject it is for him and the irritability that tends to go with coming down. as much of a factor as is kendall’s consistency with having a very warped view of what constitutes love.
(am i really saying that naomi and kendall’s relationship would have either been rockier or not lasted as long if she said i love you back, and she knew that? potentially. maybe.)
kendall can't accept unconditional love, but he needs to be loved, so instead, he interprets and embraces all that hurts him as real love.
i mean, i'm not even going into logan, given that all of this is as i said a defence mechanism that exists to delude kendall into thinking his daddy loves him.
that aside, the most obvious example of course is the disruption. sophie iwobi does a segment dedicated to telling everyone how shitty kendall roy is, and kendall says, she fucking loves me. kendall thinks, this is exactly what love is. (and, later on. hurt me! do you worst! kendall roy, at his core, is someone who desperately needs to be loved.)
a really interesting one though is kendall & shiv, 2.10-3.02.
it’s heavily implied that kendall’s aware that shiv chose to protect tom in place of kendall being sacrificed for cruises. kendall also insists that shiv is the one who truly matters to him and the one he truly wants on his side. (going back to giving someone purpose as a way of showing trust and love, here.)
it's like this: kendall now knows that he does have his sister’s love, and he knows because she allowed for him to be killed off to save tom.
so. when rava says she doesn't love him, that's as good as a love confession it gets for him.
you love me because you're still here and you care enough to tell me so. you have to love me because you came back to me and because you hate what i did.
no, of course kendall doesn't think of rava as the dog, but the mentality will forever be ingrained at the back of his mind. you don't have to be happy, what matters is that i'm happy, right? and, hey. guess fucking what. she did come back after that. he tells her her happiness doesn't matter and they fuck soon after, of course he just proved that she does love him. of course he won't be able to let go and move on after that. (right up until what i mentioned in pre-nuptial, that is.)
stewy s2-s3. summer palace, oh, kendall kicked him hard, the hardest he's ever done so. stewy shows how hurt he is, lashes back out. makes it clear it's over for them. argestes, and kendall’s just so fast in trying to fall right back into their old ways. as your friend, stewy. you're my friend after this, aren't you? bestie shit. yea. (and stewy does still continue to protect kendall after that in a quieter way (kendall roy is irrelevant//ken’s board seat-rejecting the offer), so really. he just proved to kendall that his world view really isn't flawed.)
what i'm really saying is, kendall doesn't know how to express love the right way, either. his leading example of how to get people to stay is what he has to, has to believe is his father's love.
If you just read this once I insist you go back and read it again. Holy shit.
This is so tragic because Kendall is Logan’s dog and would never want to be the one pushing people away to see if they’ll come back like he does 😭
Separately, the idea that Naomi gets his entire psyche enough not to say I love you because she actually does and knows he thinks love is abuse, and if she just doesn’t say it then he’ll feel it… fuck. Truly the best explanation I’ve ever heard for this.
He feels like if he just makes Rava happy that’s not real love, but if she’s unhappy and stays with him then he can accept that as love. When she WAS happy with him, he did drugs until she was not. But he can’t stand the idea of her leaving because he really does love her. Also in his world, when you love someone you never really leave no matter what. The idea that she would actually leave for real and not come back is too devastating (but don’t worry because she does come back at Shiv’s wedding- and at his birthday party!).
The parallel with Rava and Logan where Logan keeps him around but is not happy with him, and that’s what he learned love is, so he’s trying to make Rava be like that 🥺 Also, Kendall is not happy with Logan, but up until the point of his talk with Rava, he has always stayed with him anyway because he loves him. So he’s thinking, why wouldn’t Rava keep doing the same for me? That’s love!
The idea that all of this is a way to make Logan’s “love expression” make sense is the saddest thing I’ve ever heard. And yet HE KNOWS it’s the wrong kind of love expression, but the idea that Logan doesn’t love him is worse than anything. But I think Italy is when he realized and tried to process that Logan doesn’t really love him- not the way he needs anyway. It’s why he didn’t care what happened in the pool and why he was finally okay with actually, finally taking Logan out. Not to earn his respect this time, but because he finally understood after their conversation at the table. This is the worst. And the best. Going to stare at the wall now.
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