So somebody sent you here because of dndads discourse
I donât do much with this account anymore, in part because I realized I was playing the game of âwhat godawful thing will be bad enough to get some people to get it.â But hereâs most of the cards I played in that game before I gave up, by category.Â
My main objection: an unfortunately consistent pattern of not being able to pivot quick enough between ârowdy horny podcastâ and âIâm talking now to a 12 year old,â and inadequate efforts to rein in a similar problem in their official patreon discord.Â
- âItâs weird when your dad calls you baby/Donât google dadswap!â - Iâm trying to think of a worse look than âhey, Anthony, youâve set up a situation where a bunch of minors are going to be sharing kink test results with adults, you understand how that could be bad, right?â him replying âOh, yeah, shit, definitely,â and then⊠first doing absolutely nothing, then several days too late, some half-assed rules updates. - i mean hereâs the thing nobody has been able to explain to me at all, so far. why is it so important to be able to talk in great depth about kinks and fucking and p*rn (trying not to get got by the tumblr algorithm there) and bdsm and c*m and orgies and cucking in front of kids. I know why predators want to be able to do it. i just canât figure out why the fuck so many other people do - Many, many examples of the cast contributing to the problem in show and in the discord, and responding to the idea that thereâs nothing they could do that they havenât done -The whole kink test discussion from the all-ages discord - Various incidents when theyâve talked about Grant masturbating, wrung comedy from Grant being uncomfortable around naked men before changing gears and playing up his attraction to those men, etc. (Yeah, I know teens get crushes on adults, but we know what Grant is like when he has a crush, because weâve seen it. All he was doing with Glenn and Henry was ogling, for a joke. Never came up unless they were undressed.) - Patrons discussing Grant and Yeet sexually in front of mods, cast, and a minor asking them to stop. - A handful of other incidents on the patreon discord when patrons talked about grantâs kinks and sex life in front of mods and cast, unchecked (not comprehensive, because dear god, I have a job and itâs not this) - Me talking about why the Grant stuff needs to stop and why it falls right into an all-too-common and harmful way of talking about GSM youth - âNobodyâs mad because the dndads cast canât stop minors sneaking in. Weâre mad that they welcome minors and then let people talk about Grantâs kinks and Yeetâs dick. Do you see the difference?â - Examining the assertion that the patreon discord has 18+ channels and/or 18+ roles - Examining the patreon discordâs rules, discussing their lack of enforcement, and discussing what responsibility the cast has in this situation - Responding to âyou can always come to us with your concerns.â - âAsh has left me on read every time Iâve messaged her, and Iâm far from the only one. Thatâs a big part of what broke down my trust that they were taking the concerns seriously and had plans to address them.â - Talking about the personal and professional experiences that have brought me to the point where I just am not cool with this kind of humor. In that long discussion with Lark, I did finally get to correct some misconceptions and provide evidence for assertions that were being contested. I also got to hear Larkâs perspective, and I appreciate their time and contributions on that. Where I landed in the replies was: All right my dear, Iâve had some time to think about this as well, and I think what Iâve landed on is that me hammering on this problem with more evidence and receipts isnât causing any change in how they address the safety of the Patreon discord - but it is clearly hurting you, and I donât want to do that, so Iâm gonna step back from the issue. And then I did.Â
Content Warnings
Most of the discussion around content warnings was people other than me, back when they fucked up the child harm warning thing. But my stuff includes: - spreading the word that a major missing content warning in the new ep was setting off abuse survivors - and, some time later, being unimpressed with their response to the problem
Fully just me being fed up with this garbage, and very likely stuff I wouldnât have gotten pissed about if I werenât on my last nerve.Â
-Â just me getting irritated at another goddamn incest joke
-Â and irritated at what a mean asshole anthony is for the sake of humor
To me, realizing âthey talk about kids like this?/they let the discord get like this?â was the deal-breaker that made me go âaw damn, loving this was a bad idea, now thereâs a big hole in the trust safety net.â The stuff that has happened since with the content warnings and other issues has confirmed this impression. Having that drop out from underneath you hurts a lot, and I donât want people to get real deep into the show before they realize the hole in the safety net is there. In my book, itâs a pretty bad one, and I always appreciate getting a heads-up on stuff like that when Iâm getting into something. I think something about this show creates a âtheyâre playing very close to the edge and itâs thrilling, but in a safe way because I trust themâ listening relationship. If you take away the trust then you realize you werenât enjoying a thrill ride, you were in actual danger without realizing it - you just didnât happen to get hurt so far. I got hurt by getting in pretty deep before I realized that they think stuff is hilarious that I really donât find okay, like incest, or adults being unnecessarily naked in front of kids and making the kids uncomfortable, or kids checking out naked adults, or turning the word âconsentâ into a joke. But if people look at the actual facts of the situation - the screenshots, etc., not summaries from people who are trying to âput an end to the discourseâ - and can go âthatâs fineâ or âitâs not great, but itâs not their job to fix itâ or âthat doesnât bother me,â then I respect that decision. We all have different things that are deal-breakers. Like my header used to say, âIf you love the show I am happy for you and I hope it brings you joy, i just have some... management concerns.â I have no beef with fans of the show. Many of my friends still are fans of the show, and I still like and support the great fanartists and writers that are involved in the fandom. And if you look at the actual facts of the situation and go âyikes, Iâm out,â then I hope it was easier to read it here from somebody else whoâs going âyeah, I saw it too and itâs not okayâ than it was to get slapped across the face with it when you were just trying to listen to a dumbass show about dungeons and dragons. Edit: Since it comes up regularly, âDungeons and Daddies is a rowdy, horny, violent podcast for grown-upsâ is a disclaimer that got added in mid-October of 2020, presumably in response to this critique as well as other conversations happening in the listenership. The kink test discussion, the Grant and Yeet discussion, and basically everything in the first section of this post is from before that. I donât know that it hugely matters, but hey, clarity is good. Edit 2 to answer the recurring question of âwhy donât you also criticize NADDpod or Crit Role or TAZ for their problematic content?â Because I donât listen to those shows. Edit 3: Cleaning up this desktop, have all the many many relevant receipts for the content warnings issue, featuring such hits as â40 episodes of content warnings getting done in 48 hours by a handful of untrained volunteers.â The daughters thing, in all its glory. Short version: June 2020, on Talking Dad, a listener asked whether having only sons on the show was deliberate. Some of the cast's responses struck listeners as sexist, inconsiderate, or confusing. After discussion on multiple platforms, someone posted a thread on Reddit. Four cast members responded. This was the first time that fans had publicly discussed concerns over female representation with the cast, but the same conversation had happened in the Patreon discord repeatedly, for months. Many fans had sore feelings but were willing to give the show another chance. However, the next few episodes were not received with the same tolerance and assumption of good intention that they would have previously been. (Willâs apology for that is still a great example of how to own your shit and not make excuses for yourself... and would really mean a lot if he had ever responded to anything else again, ever. Like this, for instance. The thing about asking marginalized people to âhold you accountableâ as a creator is that you have 99.99% of the power in the situation. If you ask for the feedback, but then donât actually do anything about it, youâre just asking people to throw their emotional labor down a hole so that you can feel like youâre woke and responsive.) Some folks contact Freddie to see if the show is okay for their kids and he handles it with typical grace and tact. People are uncomfortable with the idea of Glenn and Canary because she seems young, and instead of just saying âoh, sorry if it came off that way, but no, donât worry - Glenn wouldnât flirt with a teenager,â Freddie just kinda argues with everybody about whether itâs fair for someone to interpret her as young and then, when that doesnât get traction, he switches to arguing about whether Glenn was flirting or not. As is pretty typical, a very small and easily-addressed thing gets blown up hugely by the castâs breathtaking inability to respond appropriately to stuff that they see as criticism. Then later, a Patreon mod (who still mods) made fun of people who thought Canary was young. Good look. And when a mod told Anthony that people were getting uncomfortable with it, he said âthatâs a fredo problem.â Amazing.Â















