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@ff-aeriseph-world
Let’s look like mama
How can you want this, Sephiroth? How can you want an eternity of loneliness?
cloud & tifa (10/?)
Sephiroth for Magic The Gathering
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Every time I see this scene, I gotta throw away all my passionate “Sephiroth has been the same since the OG, but he’s more fleshed out now” takes in defense of his compilation portrayal and just admit that this was a straight up retcon/addition for his character, but I absolutely fucking love it. I’ll take it. Idc.
I am going to be honest. I never interpreted his original rendition of this scene as cold, so I have a hard reason seeing this as a retcon, and that kind of bugs me in a "I am not understanding the collective agreement" kind of way as I have seen before.
Is there something in the Japanese text that makes this different, or is this one of those "the group calls it a retcon, and everyone agrees moments"?
When I was playing FFVII for the first time, my impression was that Sephiroth returned with who survived and that he had already looked for the other person and decided to move on when he could not be found. The scene in Rebirth just served to reinforce that from my perspective. So, is they something I am missing? Just...kind of curious.
I believe it’s a retcon because of the writer’s intent, not so much the potential logistics of the scene. In the OG, you can interpret it as Sephiroth saying they have no time to look for the trooper because he already did and found nothing. But it requires that assumption to stand against the way the scene is initially presented.
Even if Sephiroth did care to look offscreen (and before they told him), what’s bothered to be shown is his tactical efficiency as the commanding SOLDIER. They inform him that a trooper is missing and he immediately says they literally do not have time to search for him. They have to prioritize the mission and the survival/success of the remaining team.
Personally, I think this is a realistic depiction of someone who was raised and trained like Sephiroth. It’s already a shock to me that he was mentally stable for as long as he was, but the fact that he didn’t have more ruthless tendencies as a Shinra war veteran is a miracle.
That said, Rebirth Sephiroth is riding on the waves of the character we’ve seen develop over the course of the Compilation. Crisis Core already “went soft” on Sephiroth by showing his humanity in droves, which I don’t consider a retcon. But it was a development expanding on a side to Sephiroth that wasn’t shown as clearly in OG.
We know his humanity was there, because there is that scene where he is considerate to Cloud about his motion sickness on the truck and the old Ultimanias mentioned Sephiroth’s behavior early on as retaining humanity even when Tifa considered him cold.
But it wasn’t shown in-depth. The Compilation shows his humanity almost constantly now, because they want us to understand the villain like we do the hero. So, when they did this river scene again in Rebirth, considering what they said about wanting to help the audience gain more empathy for Sephiroth, I considered the softer, kinder portrayal to be a new addition at the very least. Maybe not a full retcon, but….
I don’t even consider Genesis in CC to be a retcon. He fits into the reactor scene perfectly. But this bit at the river? The whole mood is different now. Before we saw a war hero prioritizing the mission. Here we see Sephiroth, more humanlike, distressed over his single trooper and spending two hours looking for him before returning in visible regret. That was a deliberate choice on the writer’s end and a change they clearly wanted to make. And I respect it.
I can understand that. Thank you for answering!
I definitely filled in the gap myself since Sephiroth came from off screen with the "trooper" in Cloud's flashback in the OG, and since we did not know how long that had been, I never thought too hard about it and just assumed "if the other guy isn't with them, he's probably dead. Sephiroth was not in the same spot with everyone, so he probably already looked seeing as he came directly to where Cloud and Tifa are with the other guy without needing to hunt for them" and left it at that, but that could raise other questions.
Logistically though, I can see how most people would interpret it otherwise.
For myself on the Compilation part, the OG game humanized Sephiroth, for me, because even with so few lines and little context in that game, he was way more relatable to a bullied little kid who struggled with seeing herself as a person than any other villain character I had come across at the time, and the Compilation only helped to expanded upon it for "everyone else who did not already see" kind of vibes from me. So yeah. That is an example of bringing your own lense to the painting and filling in the story, and the Compilation just matched up with those expectations. For me, it was just vindication after years of people "not understanding the human he was because they were never bullied". XD And I just assumed, again, it became obvious in hindsight to others.
Tifa calling him cold, to me, was just Tifa not knowing a person who was (in my mind) clearly like me and very "reserved" (which I now realize was just me being traumatized and guarded), and that was because her saying it versus seeing Nibelheim felt like such a juxtaposition to show to the viewers that he was, in fact, not cold rather than emphasizing that he was. In-universe would have been a different story, but externally, that's how her words came off to me.
It all can be retcons, however, depending on how everyone else saw it back then, so I can get that now. It's just another painful example for me how twisted my thinking can be compared to others and that I probably needed therapy years ago seeing as I saw Sephiroth exactly how he is in the Compilation and that new scene as he is now. Emotionally, it won't ever be a retcon for myself, but that's just my inner child being stubborn. The scene is deliberately reframed, so I do understand now.
I will not get into Genesis. Only mentioning that since I don't want it to feel like I am just ignoring it.
Thanks again!
All good! I actually really like your view on OG Sephiroth because it’s refreshing and it’s what I have tried to convince OG fans is the case at times, but there is so often the one view that “OG Sephiroth was a cold, lofty creature” and this river scene is always used as evidence against my arguments. I hadn’t yet found a way to deny it beyond insisting it was open to interpretation or by saying that it was in character for Sephiroth to prioritize his remaining team’s success and mission when necessary, but when they changed the tone on a surface level in Rebirth, I admittedly was worried that my softer judgement of the OG scene had been biased.
Because why would they put more emphasis on Sephiroth’s concern if they didn’t feel it was shown properly in OG?
But again, this is one of those topics where I think the ambiguous nature of the FF7 story saves us from objectivity in interpretation. The OG fans who insist that Sephiroth was cold and ruthless in OG can’t disprove your take on the OG river scene. There are missing blanks. Pieces to be filled in. That’s how it was written. I think your view is valid and your way of thinking is not strange to me at all. It’s insightful.
I don’t see OG hero Sephiroth as cruel either. Even when I first went in blind to see the story, I saw no signs of hidden evil in him.
I agree with you that he comes off reserved and aloof at worst, but he’s even tame compared to a character on the “good guy team” like Barret, who says much harsher things to Cloud the start of the game. There is bias against hero Sephiroth because of his inevitable downfall. People look for signs of evil and misinterpret introverted behaviors or tactical efficiency as inherent evil lurking below the surface of his character. I even witnessed this when watching some people play Rebirth for the first time.
They only have known or approached Sephiroth as the iconic villain, so even when he behaves twice as sweet or docile in the Rebirth flashback, they would say things like, “Oh he’s faking it. He’s secretly evil,” as if he were always ready to snap at any given moment and cast aside a facade of humanity. But the exact opposite is true.
He was always meant to be a fallen hero. A decent person corrupted. Someone who turns around completely. Not a cold, arrogant man waiting to step into a god complex after being confirmed as someone beyond human. Yet that’s the interpretation that so many run with.
Even Tifa looks back on Sephiroth and remembers his aloof nature that she believes suits his current status as a cruel enemy (Dissidia played into this not too long ago). Sephiroth’s downfall causes an assumption to rise in both the characters and fans that he must have always been somewhat evil, born corrupted, or mad in a dormant sense.
But before First Soldier, we never even saw Sephiroth’s POV. Everything about him is told or witnessed through the eyes of others, including the actual fans. We didn’t really “know” him yet, so we only had those interpretations of who he was.
And if I’m going to be cocky for a minute, who was right in the end about Sephiroth? The fans who interpreted his OG behavior as cold and superior or secretly already evil? Or the fans like you whose judgements of his character were doubly validated by scenes like this in Rebirth, where the writers beat us over the head with “He was a good person at heart and at least tried to care for others despite being raised separately and in an inhumane world?”
So, even if I call this a retcon/addition, I say it lightly. As in, they took a good faith interpretation of an OG Sephiroth scene (like yours), and made it a sure and undeniable reality. I feel validated, and I’m glad you’ve been validated too.
And who knows, I could also be dead wrong. Maybe all the way back then, they intended to show Sephiroth in that sympathetic light but it wasn’t delivered with as much clarity. Either way, you were right and I can finally point to the Rebirth version as evidence for both of our takes, if necessary.
I am glad that Rebirth has given you fuel for your discussions! It's strange that so many people wish to insist that "he was always evil," but I suppose it's human nature to go back and recontextualize through an "always evil lense" when someone who was decent snaps.
There's a societal discussion to be had about a distaste for nuance and the duality of humans in there somewhere, I think, but that's probably best reserved for its own future post.
I appreciate your insight and thoughtful discussion! Take care!
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