My take on Jason's orientation is that he's aroace (like if ace to allo was a 1 to 5 scale he would be a zero), but literally every other form of attraction is way high, especially aesthetic attraction.
I really do think Jason Todd can be read as canonically asexual: a messy compilation of evidence
Alright, I'm going to Yap, so here's a cut for courtesy's sake. Let's go.
Getting pre-Crisis out of the way, since again I think pre-Crisis Jason does actually like girls, I'd like to point out that it is very much Rena's looks that draw him to her initially (and what he comments/ compliments her on most often), and they do eventually break up because Robin is a higher priority to him, and one that he feels bad neglecting. They're cute though <3
JayRena my beloveds. babies <3 they're so little and squishable. Anyway, moving on.
So. Jason Todd of New Earth. Let's discuss him. As Robin, most of his issues center on Batman & Bruce, with little to no attention given to Jason's civilian life specifically. A majority of issues focus mostly on Bruce's POV, so there's just not really room for Jason's life outside of Robin in his post-Crisis run. The only time he really interacts with people outside of the Batman extended cast is in his NTT, Blue Devil, and Superman appearances. We're gonna skip his interactions with Eddie, Diana, & Clark, since none of them even blink in the direction of what I'm trying to prove.
In Jason's NTT appearances, he has a handful of interactions with named female characters who aren't Leslie for pretty much the only time in his career (that we see - obligatory reminder that we only got to see a fraction of Jason's time as Robin, there were probably more). In New Teen Titans (1984) #20, Jason does make this joke asking if Donna has younger sisters. I don't think he's serious, though, as it comes at the end of their conversation about how he isn't Dick, and it definitely seems like a way to cut the tension more than anything.
In issue 26, Kory treats Jason's exclamation the same way she does Gar's many intended-to-be-flirtatious-but-just-uncomfortable-to-witness comments, but to me it seems like a fairly innocent comment. She did just save his life, and she's his brother's girlfriend who's been in space for months before this mission. It's definitely not as uncomfortable as most of what comes out of Gar's mouth (on that note, please, please, Marv Wolfman, why. why do you keep having him say things like that. it's so hard for me to enjoy reading NTT because Gar keeps harassing women all the time. ick.)
So overall, 80s Jaybin: not enough evidence to prove one way or another. Cool, that's fine, I can live with it. There are a couple more scenes in Gotham Knights, specifically the issue with Babs that I should reread, but considering it's Gotham Knights by Scott Beatty & he can't write Jaybin to save his life, I feel okay skipping it for now. We can come back to that later.
Original flavor Red Hood, aka UTRH/Lost Days is next. Obviously, Jason doesn't really have any relationships during UTRH. He's here for vengeance and vengeance only. But Lost Days has the vaguely Oedipus-shaped mess that is Jason & Talia.
Now I want to be clear: I hate this. I don't like this scene, it makes me deeply uncomfortable both from a "Talia wouldn't do that" angle and from a "she's been basically like a mom to him up 'til now" angle. But it's technically canon, or it was at one point, and it's useful to my argument. As soon as I'm done here, I'm gonna go back to pretending this scene never happened. Cool? Cool.
In Lost Days #6, we get this scene (there's more in the scene, but these were what I felt were most important). To me, there are two important parts to this that go with my argument: the fact that Talia initiates everything, and the fact that she speaks in terms of punishing Bruce. This isn't about Jason to Talia, and it's not about Talia to Jason. This scene is explicitly set as punishing Bruce for the death of Ra's al Ghul (which can I just say, having now read Death & the Maidens, this whole thing makes a lot more sense? I still hate it but knowing why and how Ra's died is kinda important to understanding Talia in this scene). Now technically, if you do read the full scene, you know that the "punishment" Talia is proposing has to do with taking Gotham, "what is most important," but given the way the kiss & everything happens, we can easily see this instead as framing Jason as what is most important to Bruce, and Talia symbolically taking him. And at one point, it would've been true. When Jason was Robin, he was the most important thing in Bruce's life. He was Bruce's everything, and Bruce died with him, leaving only Batman in a lot of ways. So Talia in this scene is encouraging Jason to punish Bruce by going through with his revenge scheme and taking Gotham, but she's also doling out her own revenge in her own way.
All this to say, the scene has no indication that Jason actually wants this for normal reasons (or even at all, which is a problem but whatever, Judd Winick already has a list of things I want to have Words with him about.) Regardless, this is entirely external, and not motivated by any desire for or attraction to Talia. And given how unprecedented it is and how maternal she seems toward him before this point, I think that's a safe assumption to make.
Moving on from that Oedipal disaster, there's Cheyenne in Brothers in Blood. Cheyenne isn't really a Jason love interest, she's Dick's girlfriend (for lack of a better term) and Jason is there. And their interactions are fairly limited, but while Jason treats her well, he never seems that interested. He's polite and looks out for her when they're at the bar, but overall Jason seems a lot more interested in ticking off Dick than he is in doing anything with Cheyenne. Which is fair, I think, given Brothers in Blood can basically be summarized as "Jason is the world's most obnoxious sibling, this time with a body count!"
Countdown doesn't include any romantic interests for Jason, but I have seen this panel get brought up in discussions of his orientation and I think there are two possible interpretations: aesthetic attraction or sarcasm, because Jason has known Kyle all of four seconds and they immediately got off on the wrong foot, they don't like each other. Personally, I think he's just being sarcastic & lowkey mocking Donna for her weird exes thing she has going on with Kyle. He continues needling them both about that throughout Countdown.
Conclusion: I think there's either not enough information given to draw a conclusion on pre-Flashpoint Jason's sexuality but I also don't think I'm wrong to read him as aroace. It can definitely be argued, and it definitely wasn't author intention, but pre-Flashpoint Jason could definitely be read as aroace and it wouldn't be out of place, especially when you factor in how performative he is to account for any interactions I may have missed.
Now New 52. I haven't read a ton of New 52 and everything I read for this post I regret. Let's get into it.
In RHATO (2011) #1, Jason claims several times to have slept with Kory. This is never confirmed, we don't see anything, and considering how badly Kory is written I would like to pretend I didn't read any of that. However, if we're including Lost Days, we do have to think about this.
Jason, as I mentioned, is a very performative person. For all his (numerous) claims that he is his own man and only does things for his own reasons, he tends to live up to narratives & he tends to perform as he does so. As far back as his post-Crisis intro, this is true. Bruce thinks he's a rough, bold street kid, and Jason leans into that. His first panels in Batman #408 are a lot squishier than later in #408 & in #409.
"whoops" versus every other appearance of this kid in these issues. He then becomes Robin, and he acts less like the "tough scrappy street kid" role he was playing into and more like Dick, making silly puns & doing all sorts of Robin-y things. So what does this have to do with Starfire?
I think that it's possible that they did hook up. I also think it's possible that Jason is lying through his teeth to Roy, because he's the youngest person there by half a decade or more (depending on how old Kory is - Roy, iirc, is older than Dick, and Dick & Jason are 7-8 years apart) (don't talk to me about n52 age retcons, I don't want to think about it). At the time of Flashpoint, Jason was 18 in his mind (19-20 physically, but mentally he's like 18 months behind his body) - I think it's reasonable to assume he's trying to look more mature in front of Roy. Idk. I haven't read more of RHATO than strictly necessary for various projects, but this is my interpretation.
In RHATO (2011) #6, we get to see more of what happened before issue 1, when it was just Jason & Kory. We get these panels immediately after Kory kisses Jason, misinterpreting his invitation to talk, which are painfully awkward but would probably read the same whether or not he was aro/ace. Getting surprise kissed tends to be off-putting whether you're attracted to them or not, though it's more so if you're not.
The last thing I'll add from this (I'm not going to read all of RHATO, not only do I not have time but I'd also literally rather have my bedroom floor carpeted in loose legos) is this panel, also from issue 6.
It's been mentioned by other people who read more YA romance than I do that what Jason says here is a paraphrasing of a quote from a novel called Naomi and Ely's No Kiss List, which 1. interesting pivot from Jason's usual taste in books (based on the summary, I haven't read it but it's definitely not a classic British novel from the 1800s) and 2. I think is a really good description of the concept of a queerplatonic relationship. Which could mean nothing.
Regardless, there's no evidence that Jason & Kory actually slept together at any point, just Jason's word, and based on #6, I don't think he's telling the truth.
Only barely related, but these panels from RHATO (2011) #32 have been circulating Joyfire shippers for years, and I think it supports the concept of their dynamic as Roy & Kory being together romantically & Jason being their queerplatonic third. Which could mean nothing. [click to view, they're all wonky sizes]
Moving on, Essence. Essence is one I don't know a ton about, but here's what I've gathered.
In RHATO (2011) #7, Jason says "we were much more than study buddies," which combined with the image does indicate a relationship between them, but Jason is also very insistent that "she's not an ex." Undefined relationship? I'll take it. If it's not stated outright in words or image it's open to interpretation, right? And my interpretation, looking at more of her appearances, is that whatever relationship they had never became physical.
Bringing in Rebirth, Essence appears briefly in RHATO (2016), in issue #35. She and Jason refer to their past again, but again, it kinda seems like the furthest they've ever gone is kissing. In addition, Jason's little comment in this first panel is explicitly called out as a joke.
Narration in a later issue refers to her as Jason's former lover, which does have a connotation of physicality, but honestly? I think it's debatable.
When it comes to Artemis, whatever relationship they develop very clearly develops - it's not a love at first sight kind of thing. Yeah, Jason's pretty awed and impressed by her when they first meet (who wouldn't be?), but he very quickly gains bigger problems, like the Superman clone they found (Bizarro).
In RHATO (2016) #19, we get this panel from Jason's date with Artemis. I've heard this panel brought up a couple times, and apparently there are some other RHATO issues that counter this, but overall I think the important thing to note here is that Jason is expressing a lack of experience, which lines up fairly nicely with everything I've already said despite his flirtatious bravado (that immediately fell apart) earlier in the issue.
He also seems a little disappointed but very much unsurprised when Artemis reveals that their date was a ruse. Ultimately a very mild reaction.
A little later in #25, we get a kiss from them, and like in Lost Days, it feels less about them as a couple and more about the context. A few issues earlier, we learned that Artemis "killed" Willis Todd, or at least returned him to the prison where he was being experimented on. He is later revealed to be alive, but as of now, Artemis thinks that she did indeed kill him.
This is an apology and a goodbye before Artemis disappears to who knows where to save Bizarro. It's not a declaration of love the way a panel like this normally would be - it's "I'm sorry" and "goodbye" and "I love you but not like that," especially considering what gets said after this. So I think at this point, Jaytemis seems to be more Jason being in awe of strong women (as he is wont to do & always has been) than anything in the romance department.
There's also this panel in RHATO #41, which. I. What am I supposed to make of this. I don't even have words. What do you mean by this, Lobdell? What were you trying to say here?
(I'd also like to add these panels from RHATO Annual #1 - not sure where it is in the timeline but Artemis laughs at the idea of Jason being with anyone.
...which could mean nothing.)
They kiss again in issue #42, and they come to the conclusion that there's nothing there. Artemis & Jason both describe it as "like kissing a brother" which is. Yeah. Which could mean nothing. They also have this really sweet scene earlier in said issue where they discuss Roy's death, which doesn't really impact my point but I did think it was a sweet scene.
Once again, there just doesn't seem to be anything there. They're good friends, very definitely ride or die, as they say; they respect each other greatly; they just don't have romantic feelings for each other. Which tracks with their earlier interactions.
While issue #50 definitely implies that they're sleeping together, it definitely comes off to me as more of a friends with benefits situation than a proper relationship. They're still friends, they're just going through some things. Jason especially. Whatever they have going on here, the physical side is a lot less important than the emotional support Artemis is providing.
Also she beaks up with him (?) at the end of the issue so overall was she even a real girlfriend? Probably not. She's clearly very important to him but I think this is another one that we add to the list of "well I mean technically"
Unfortunately, I ran out of pictures, but we're far from finished. A quick TLDR for this part:
Pre-Crisis Jason was a kid who wasn't really old enough to be thinking about his orientation, but I do think he did really like Rena. He does tend to fixate on looks, which is what he compliments Rena on most often
Post-Crisis, I think an argument can be made that Jason was in fact aroace - the only sexual encounter he has is with Talia in Lost Days, and that scene very much is not about either of them, but rather the symbolic connection to Bruce. In addition, his flirtation with Cheyenne reads more as getting under Dick's skin than as interest in Cheyenne, and the rest of his comments can easily be read as jokes, especially as Robin
In New 52 and Rebirth, Jason's relationships all have something unconventional about them; whether that's his almost queerplatonic vibes with Kory & Roy in RHATO vol 1, the implied lack of physicality in his relationship with Essence, or his whatever he had with Artemis, none of these read as a "normal" relationship. While I think Jason can definitely be read with a wide variety of romantic orientations, pick your favorite, I think he definitely reads as asexual. He doesn't seek out sex or relationships; he gets pursued a lot more often than he pursues people; and the only time he's directly implied to have slept with someone that we can prove (as opposed to his statements in RHATO vol 1 #1) is his friends with benefits situation with Artemis in RHATO vol 2 #50.
There's a definite performative aspect to Jason's character, and I think he's not into people as often or as much as he pretends he is. I offer this panel from him being undercover for another example of that that I couldn't fit elsewhere in the post that in no way reads as sincere to me.
Part two of my evidence that Jason Todd is definitely ace I promise
Once again cut for space :)
Moving on to Isabel Ardila, who is probably the person on this list I knew the least about before reading all these issues.
From the start, Isabel shows a lot more interest in Jason than he does in her. Take, for example, their kiss in RHATO (2011) #10. Jason tried to end the date, Isabel kissed him, he half-heartedly kissed back. He then proceeds to kinda forget she's there when alien plot-related things start happening.
In #14, he seems more interested, but Isabel is still clearly driving the dynamic. He's not starting anything, though he's definitely willing to participate. It's still Isabel leading things, though.
When she reappears in RHATO (2016), Isabel is still very clearly the person leading this relationship. She knows what she wants (Jason) and she's going for it. Jason seems chill with this turn of events but in every instance, it's Isabel making the first move.
On their date in #34, Jason sets a place for Roy, who's dead at this point. Which could mean nothing.
After the date, they don't go home together, Jason just walks her to her hotel - is this because Jason has business things to take care of? Maybe. Am I taking it as a sign? Yeah. Also, another surprise kiss for Jason. People really gotta stop doing that to him.
She has a few more minor appearances that I read, but overall? She and Jason aren't super serious, and Isabel is consistently the driving factor in their relationship.
Rose Wilson is one that actually dates back to preboot, but the most that ever happened there was she was a little freaky about holding him at knifepoint near the beginning of Countdown (or the Teen Titans Countdown tie-in?), which I can respect.
Regardless, after Flashpoint, she and Jason are said to have had a relationship at one point, but it's only ever alluded to. And, like in most cases, Rose is the more blatantly flirtatious one. This is not exclusive to Jason, she's just Like That as far as I can tell.
Here she is again in Joker: The Man Who Stopped Laughing, still flirting with Jason
They work together, directly or indirectly, quite a bit in this series, and Rose jumps off a bridge to save him at one point. They're definitely friends even if a relationship is debatable or solely in the past (which we really don't know. Literally everything they say that could indicate a past relationship could just as easily be teasing or joking. They're so indirect about it.)
Regardless of whatever they have going on, they are a fun duo. That's not related to my thesis, but just in general I think I need to read more Rose, she's delightful.
The last one I'm gonna talk about is Barbara Gordon. Oh yeah, I read Three Jokers for this. I'm sorry.
For once, this is a relationship driven by Jason. Their first kiss happens shortly after Jason was captured & tortured by the two Jokers, and Jason & Barbara have a conversation about recovery. And for once, the kiss wasn't initiated by the girl - Jason seems to just go for it.
It seems like a very spur-of-the-moment impulse brought on by Barbara being the first person to say she wanted to be there for him, especially considering how they have been bickering and fighting this entire storyline until now. Immediately afterward, though, Barbara says they shouldn't have done that and seems to back down.
I do think it's important to note that this is the only relationship, for lack of a better word, so far that Jason takes initiative in. Talia made the first move, Artemis set the pace for everything they did, Rose and Isabel both openly flirt with him a lot more than Jason ever reciprocates. Whatever he has here with Barbara is something that he's choosing, because he needs something and he thinks maybe she can give him that support. But I don't think he actually likes her like that - I think he's doing whatever he can to keep her around in the moment, and it fails.
Barbara is the only person he thinks can understand him, and even she isn't on his side. He seems willing to give up anything to get her on his side, which reads like desperation a lot more than romance. He needs someone on his side, especially after he killed Joker #3. Barbara is not on his side. Barbara is furious with him for it. But he knows better than to trust Bruce to side with him, which makes her kind of his only option.
To me, the entire thing with Barbara reads less like a crush or an unrequited love, it reads like someone who doesn't have much going for him latching onto scraps because he doesn't have anything else. And quite honestly, I don't think he realizes that what he's feeling isn't romantic love, but that's the only framework he can think of to use. And he's never been in love; he doesn't know the difference between whatever is going on here and an actual romantic connection.
His whole final letter is a depressing cry for help, for support, for unconditional love. He needs someone to care for him unconditionally, but if he can't have that, he will change everything about himself until he can be loved.
Jason Todd as a character is built around love. He wants to be loved and accepted, and he cares so much about the people around him. He quite literally died searching for parental love. He did so many things during both RHATO runs for the sake of platonic love. His actions in Brothers in Blood & Battle for the Cowl are kinda unhinged but are distinctly him reaching out for familial/fraternal love. And looking over all of these relationships, I genuinely don't think he's ever experienced romantic love despite how much he seeks it out. I think he goes along with what other people want because it's a way to be wanted, and that is better than being alone even if he doesn't feel the same way. He's a romantic at heart, he quite famously likes romantic stories, but I don't think he realizes that whatever he feels for these girls that he dates isn't the same thing. It's a hard thing to come to terms with, and even if he isn't aromantic, I sincerely believe that he is asexual, and speaking from experience that alone can leave you questioning.
So there you have it. All my thoughts on Jason's relationships, and why I think he's aroace, and why I think canon Jason can definitely be read as asexual. In conclusion I think he would greatly benefit from someone explaining the terms split attraction model, asexuality, aromanticism, and queerplatonic relationships to him. Thank you and good night.
