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More than once when I see your art of Maedhros and Maglor holding the palantír, I always think they're holding bowling balls! The art is great, but now I'm thinking that Maedhros and Maglor are going to use the palantír in bowling!

😄

rosenrotstuff

😄

valacirya

Decided to make a post about how most (not all) of Thingol's actions that fans criticize were justified (or at least understandable) and in the interest of his people. I'd recommend checking out warrioreowynofrohan and imakemywings for far more comprehensive meta about the tall boi. Also, no quotes because I'm lazy, but all the canon I mention is from the published Silmarillion.

*************************************************************

1. Quenya ban

I've seen the Quenya ban be described as cultural genocide which icks me out. First of all, maybe don't use genocide to describe fictional characters in a fictional universe, especially when it's happening to real people and cultures. Second of all, that term is still inaccurate. Quenya was spoken in Gondolin, probably in Hithlum and Nargothrond too, and no one was punished for it. Earendil could speak Quenya. The Numenoreans could speak Quenya. Bilbo fucking Baggins could speak Quenya.

The ban was a nonviolent way for Thingol to enact some sort of consequence for the people who murdered his brother's people, stole their ships, and then took advantage of his hospitality while keeping this heinous secret. And it was a way to make sure that Sindarin remained the lingua franca of Beleriand, because the Noldor had already proven their disdain towards the Sindar and their intent to establish their own kingdoms. I think it was imakemywings who said that the ban was also a soft power move to show how all the Sindar who worked with/under the Noldor were still ultimately loyal to Thingol and would obey his decree.

So no, the Quenya ban was not racist or xenophobic or cultural genocide. Again, don't use those terms to describe fiction, and if you insist on doing so, at least look them up in the dictionary first.

2. Isolationism

No he wasn't. He was friends with the dwarves, the Laiquendi, and the Falathrim. He made a mutually beneficial alliance with the Haladin. He was rightfully wary of the (armed-to-the-teeth and hiding something) Noldor but even after he learns about the kinslaying he says he won't cut off relations with the Nolofinweans indefinitely because he recognizes that they're in the fight against Morgoth together.

The Girdle of Melian was only put in place after the first battle when Denethor was killed and it was absolutely the right decision strategically. Thingol knew immediately what it took the Noldor 400 years and countless deaths to understand: there was no defeating Morgoth without the Valar. So he took his people and anyone else who was willing, and he created a kingdom with a semblance of peace where they could thrive. Doriath was a fortress and a symbol of hope for Beleriand. As long as Doriath stood, Morgoth hadn't won completely. No one who cared about Beleriand would have sacrificed that hope for some fanciful ideals of vengeance and glory. And don't forget, he let Beleg and Mablung participate in the Nirnaeth. The fact that only those two went means that no one else in Doriath was willing to fight.

3. Maedhros's comment about a king is he who can hold his own

The arrogance. I'm sorry, Mr. I Got Fooled By Morgoth, were you able to hold your own? You'd be a skeleton hanging from a cliff if Fingon hadn't rescued you. Thingol was filling his armories while the Noldor were still chilling in Valinor. Thingol was battling Morgoth while the Noldor were betraying each other and abandoning their home. He literally said: "...elsewhere there are many of my people, and I would not have them restrained of their freedom, still less ousted from their homes." Those are the words of a king who feels responsible for the people outside of Doriath too. Also, check out the difference between Maedhros's "we'll go wherever we want" comment and Thingol's "I don't like them but they'll be the deadliest foes of Morgoth".

His decision to retreat and put up the Girdle was strategically sound. Many Laiquendi joined him after Denethor's death and the Falathrim came and went freely. He had a choice between spreading out his already depleted forces to help the northern Sindar/Falathrim (and likely get annihilated) or retreat, recover, and wait for a better opportunity (the arrival of the Noldor was not a better opportunity; like I said, he knew only the Valar could defeat Morgoth, and Melian also sensed the Doom). Again, Doriath was a symbol of hope. "Gondor wanes, you say. But Gondor stands." Its survival was essential.

4. Attitude towards Men

Look I'm not going to defend his less-than-stellar attitude, but I do think it's exaggerated by the fandom. Before Beren came, Thingol still agreed to let the Haladin dwell in his territory. He even sent the marchwardens to aid them against orcs. And the minute he realizes Beren's loyalty, bravery, and true love for Luthien, he changes and welcomes him (and also appreciates his humor). He treats Turin like a son, and honors and pities Hurin even when Hurin disrespects him. Turgon otoh refuses to let Hurin into Gondolin even though they were actually friends.

5. Didn't join the Union of Maedhros

See: reasons above. Doriath had to survive. Elves could not defeat Morgoth without the Valar. Also, afaik he didn't actually have an army, just the marchwardens and his guard. Also also, Maedhros had subtly threatened him, Celegorm and Curufin had openly threatened him, and this was after they kidnapped and tried to forcibly marry Luthien. Also also also, he "went not to war, nor any out of Doriath save Mablung and Beleg" meaning the general populace didn't want to fight either.

6. Didn't accept refugees

As far as I'm aware, this is completely fanon. The (Noldorin, just fyi) refugees of Nargothrond are accepted into Doriath, as are the Sindar after Bragollach. Curufin and Celegorm's people join Amrod in Ossiriand I believe after the Nirnaeth. There's no canonical basis for this claim.

7. Responsible for Finrod's death

Nah dude. I'm not saying he was right in setting the quest, it was absolutely a horrible quest. But Finrod decided of his own free will to help Beren. You can say that he wouldn't have died if Thingol hadn't set the quest, but that's like saying if Morgoth hadn't stolen the Silmarils, the kinslayings wouldn't have happened. Objectively true, but missing a whole lotta nuance and absolving the Feanorians of their culpability. And I'm not comparing Thingol with Morgoth so don't start.

*************************************************************

The criticisms I don't mention are the ones I agree with. He should have listened to Melian. He should have reasoned with the dwarves instead of insulting them; honestly, his death was pretty stupid. He probably should have been a little more willing to establish relations with the Nolofinweans, but I understand completely why he didn't. He definitely shouldn't have fucked with the Silmaril but tbh, that seemed like one of the parts where a bigger force was determining things, like it was written in the Music already, because that Silmaril did play a key role in Morgoth's defeat.

In conclusion: Thingol rocked, fandom shocked.

Obligatory disclaimer: I meant no offense to anybody, and everyone is entitled to hold their own opinion on the Silm and its characters.

jaz-the-bard

After the fall of gondolin, everybody is (understandably) very upset with maeglin. To be fair, maeglin is also upset with maeglin.

But, to the surprise of almost everybody, turgon forgives him after just one month and one stern talking-to about how he was disappointed and hurt

Why?

Because curufin showed up. Curufin looking smug and annoying and ready to make fun of turgon (understandably).

So turgon calmly informed curufin that he was a mediocre smith, certainly not in the league of turgon's own dear nephew, and hello celegorm yes we were just discussing that your branch of the family can't even do treason correctly, it's honestly sad, and by the way fëanor could never in a million years invent mechanical dragons, and none of the fëanorians are any good at destroying cities even though they ought to have more experience--

Analysis of Doctor Who fandom fanfictions

I decided to try to make an new analysis of Doctor Who fanfictions in AO3:

What is the AO3:

Archive of Our Own (AO3) is a nonprofit open source repository for fanfiction (fic) and other fanworks contributed by users. The site was created in 2008 by the Organization for Transformative Works and went into open beta in 2009. As of December 2020, Archive of Our Own hosted 7 million works in over 40,000 fandoms. The site has received positive reception for its curation, organization and design, mostly done by readers and writers of fanfiction.

- Doctor Who Works Count by Fandoms:

- Number of fanfictions per word count:

- Fanfictions works by date:

- Ratings:

General Audiences (37450)

Teen And Up Audiences (25941)

Mature (8440)

Explicit (7460)

Not Rated (5539)

- Most popular Relationships on AO3 in number of fanfictions:

I tried to create a list of the most popular to least popular relationships on AO3 until it reached 20, but it is difficult to find less popular fanficitons on AO3, so I may have forgotten some relationships in the middle.

#doctor who #new who #classic who #torchwood #fandom stats #ao3 #doctor who analysis

Analysis of Tolkien fandom fanfictions

I decided to try to make an new analysis of Tolkien’s fanfictions in AO3:

What is the AO3:

- Tolkien Works Count by Fandoms:

- Number of fanfictions per word count:

Fanfictions works by date:

- Ratings:

- General Audiences (30658)

- Teen And Up Audiences (19728)

- Mature (9405)

- Explicit (9123)

- Not Rated (6212)

- Most popular Relationships on AO3 in number of fanfictions:

I tried to create a list of the most popular to least popular relationships on AO3 until it reached approximately 100, but it is difficult to find less popular fanficitons on AO3, so I may have forgotten some relationships in the middle.

#tolkien #LOTR #the hobbit #hobbit #silmarillion #fandom stats #ao3 #the silmarillion

Analysis of Star Trek fandom fanfictions

I decided to try to make an analysis of Star Trek fanfictions in AO3:

What is the AO3:

Archive of Our Own (AO3) is a nonprofit open source repository for fanfiction (fic) and other fanworks contributed by users. The site was created in 2008 by the Organization for Transformative Works and went into open beta in 2009. As of May 2020, Archive of Our Own hosted 6 million works[1] in over 40,000 fandoms.[2] The site has received positive reception for its curation, organization and design, mostly done by readers and writers of fanfiction.

- Star Trek Works Count by Fandoms:

- Number of fanfictions per word count:

- Fanfictions works by date:

- Ratings:

General Audiences (24751)

Teen And Up Audiences (24064)

Explicit (12225)

Mature (11077)

Not Rated (4426)

- Most popular Relationships on AO3 in number of fanfictions:

#star trek #fandom stats #ao3 #star trek tos #star trek tng #star trek voyager #star trek deep space 9 #star trek enterprise #star trek reboot #star trek discovery

Comparing Megatron in IDW1 and IDW2

I was thinking about Megatron's representation in the comics of IDW1 and IDW2 and I realized that they are almost opposite versions of each other:

- The IDW2 Megatron is practically a populist right-wing politician with fascist tendencies, considering that his objective is only the unrestricted consumption of resources and colonization, that is, he used a noble rhetoric about liberation to obtain popular support for his conquest regime, exploitation and oppression. The members who are joining the Decepticon are old war veterans, disgruntled ex-miners and other unemployed blue-collar workers, corrupt cops and government officials, people upset at things like gladiator games being shut down for being too violent or the limited fuel consumption due to rationing or the literal birth control. Cybertron is a multi-party democracy with a centrist government in charge, with the planet in an energy crisis. And IDW2 comics started to be launched during the high point of the UK Brexit debates, which is where Ruckley is from, and at the same time as the anti-refugee/immigrant protests in Europe.

- Already in IDW1, Megatron and the Decepticons are more based on revolutions, mainly in of left, with the main source being the USSR, that when they end the dictatorship in which they live, the movement starts to become increasingly extremist and they implant their own dictatorship. Cybertron was a dictator with a caste system, and the first Decepticons were miners and other exploited classes who were considered inferior, and Megatron started out as a pacifist intellectual who became a revolutionary who became a dictator. The representation of the Decepticons in the comics uses several iconographies based on the USSR, on covers, titles of chapters and images for example.

#megatron #transformers idw #idw #idw 2005 #idw2 #transformers #maccadam

Analysis of Transformers fandom fanfictions

I decided to try to make an analysis of Transformers fanfictions in AO3:

What is the AO3:

Archive of Our Own (AO3) is a nonprofit open source repository for fanfiction contributed by users. The site was created in 2008 by the Organization for Transformative Works and went into open beta in 2009. As of May 2020, Archive of Our Own hosted 6 million works in over 36,700 fandoms. The site has received positive reception for its curation, organization and design, mostly done by readers and writers of fanfiction.

- Transformers Works Count by Fandoms:

- Number of fanfictions per word count:

- Ratings:

General Audiences (10834)

Teen And Up Audiences (10692)

Explicit (7143)

Mature (5571)

Not Rated (2292)

- Most popular Relationships on AO3 in number of fanfictions:

I tried to create a list of the most popular to least popular relationships on AO3 until it reached 10, but it is difficult to find less popular fanficitons on AO3, so I may have forgotten some relationships in the middle.

#transformers #maccadam #fandom stats #ao3 #transformers idw

chrismcfeely

Hi, I read that Torchbearer toys have texts based on an alphabet created by High Moon Studios for the War for Cybertron games, but I searched for and didn't find that alphabet on any site.

Yeah, I think we might not have that on the Wiki for some reason. Here it is:

gokaihearts35

Thanks for the answer about the alphabet created by High Moon, but on this subject, tfwiki also doesn't have the following alphabets in it:

Cyberglyphics, which originated in the bay movies but are also used in the idw comics to represent old cybertronian

There is also this alphabet of aligned continuity, which was used in a book

#transformers #maccadam #languages

VS Changer Memorial Set announced, This is the first time they release a P-Bandai after the series ended.

They seem to be centered on Kairi and Keiichiro's relationship.

#super sentai #tokusatsu #kaitou sentai lupinranger vs keisatsu sentai patoranger #lupinranger #patoranger #yano kairi #Keiichiro Asaka

nowyoukno

See More Daily Facts Here!

philliciaglee

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH

Sorry….kind of

cruelladatrille

isn’t captain hook and his crew suppose to be a lost boys who escaped and that’s why he’s trying to kill peter pan

cerealmisandrist

…what the actual fuck

thismagiclantern

I NEVER TRUSTED PETER PAN

tempestuous-sovereignity

nah everything in Peter Pan was fucked up.

Tinkerbell and her fairy buddies were having an orgy when they found baby Peter. Tinks also extremely jealous, tricking one of the Lost Boys into shooting Wendy in the fucking chest.

Peter’s also crazy omnipotent. Like, he “make believes” he’s a doctor, and heals Wendy. When he’s hungry, he pretends to eat imaginary food and his stomach actually gets fuller.

He’s also a dick. He would teach children how to fly but never how to stop, so they’d fly for months on straight without rest or break, and they couldn’t sleep either or they’d stop flying. And when one of Wendy’s brothers actually fell asleep and plummeted into the ocean, Peter laughed his ass off. He only saved him when Wendy begged him too.

punkfaemoved-blog

okay but that’s the point of Peter Pan. It’s not supposed to glorify never growing up, it’s supposed to show kids why growing up is not only good, but necessary otherwise they’d end up as fucked up as Peter. He never matured, never learned right from wrong, he never listened to his parents because - according to Peter - he ran away as an infant.It’s a tale to teach children that listening to their parents and growing up is good. As far as Tinker Bell goes, if you actually read Peter Pan you would know that fairies only feel one emotion at a time and they feel that emotion very strongly so the orgy? lust. Trying to kill Wendy? Jealousy. She embodies the seven deadly sins and what happens if you let your emotions get the best of you. (And as far as the new fairies series of films making her nicer it’s because you only see the jealous side of her in Peter Pan and you see other sides of her in the series because those movies are about her). Rant over, you can go back to your regularly scheduled blogging now.

adventuretimetimeline

So if Peter Pan shows up in your window. Stab him in the fucking chest kids. You have school tomorrow

supernaturalshadowhunter-deacti

Reblogging because I believe this will be important to the Once Upon a Time fandom tomorrow.

maybe-this-time

It’s more complicated than that. Peter is kind of a tragic hero. He chooses not to grow up, he knows he is incomplete.

I mean, he cut off Hook’s hand because he thought it was a game. He clearly doesn’t know right from wrong. He also only knows the unconditional love of a mother to a child, which is why he thinks everyone wants to be his mother. He also switches sides in a fight just for fun, kill pirates for fun, and “thins” out the Lost Boys when they can’t fit in the tree anymore.

But, like, it wasn’t a cautionary tale to tell you to listen to your parents, it’s a story about death and youth. Why can’t Peter grow up? One of the popular theories is that it’s because he’s dead. J.M. Barrie’s older brother died when Barrie was little and he dressed up in his brother’s clothes to please his mom. His mom - who was always distant, whose love Barrie craved like Peter craves a mom - started crying and said something like “At least my baby will never grow up” and that idea stuck with Barrie forever. Then, as an adult, it’s believed he never slept with his wife because Barrie was just a kid. He was Peter Pan. He was too innocent for that. He befriended the Llewelyn-Davies boys and based Peter Pan off of them and their games. (Fun fact: The boy Peter Pan was named after, Peter Llewelyn-Davies, threw himself under a train). There was also a bunch of stuff about Barrie being in love with The Llewlyn-Davies boys’ mother, but that’s not important here.

People think Peter’s dead because he literally cannot return home. He tried and the window was barred and his parents had replaced him with another baby. Why? Probably because they had lost Peter to the flu. Why does Peter come in through the window? Because of the joke “I once had a bird names Enza. I opened up the window and ‘influenza’.” Because lots of babies died back then form the flu. The Lost Boys are children who fell out of their prams. Odds are babies could not survive falling out of their prams. Peter is liked the pied piper ferrying the souls of young children to the neverland/afterlife. Barrie believed that all children were “gay and heartless” but he didn’t think that was a bad thing.

Also, Hook and his crew are not old lost boys trying to kill Peter. Hook was once a British gentlemen (hinted at to be associated with Charles II and attended Elton) and he is afraid of growing old. His biggest fear is growing old and dying - that is why his nemesis is the embodiment of eternal youth. That is why the crocodile that chases him swallowed a clock and ticks. That is why when Peter finally decided “It’s Hook of me this time” the crocodile has stopped ticking and Peter started (he’s trying to trick them into thinking he’s the croc). At that moment - Peter is time and time has ran out for Hook.

Also, it’s not so much that Peter is omnipotent. All kids basically are in the Neverland. Like, it states that the island looks different to every kid because it’s the land of their dreams and stuff. Also, the island legit freezes when Peter leaves and thaws when he comes back. He’s been there so long he’s not human anymore - but fey. (keep in mind being fey isn’t good, just chaotic neutral). Peter even secretes pixie dust now. The island is so fine tuned with him because he’s one of the only people that stay, that it caters to him. Most likely any child that stayed as long as he did would become omnipotent to an extent.

As for Tinker Bell, the above stated is true. Fairies are so tiny they can only have one emotion at a time - “Tink wasn’t all bad” - and they also have really short lifespans so, like, Tinker Bell isn’t even that important to Peter Pan. He forgets all about her and Hook by the time Wendy is grown up.And the orgies thing is because in the legends fey are known for their revelries.

And it wasn’t so much that Peter was a dick, he just doesn’t know when to stop. He’s a child. He doesn’t know right from wrong. He doesn’t know when to stop playing -cutting Hooks hand off was a game to him. He also has the memory of a child, so odds are he just forgot to teach kids how to stop flying or how to imagine food, etc. He is just carefree, like all children. Everything is a game to him, because he never learned anything else.

But like, no, Peter Pan is not a cautionary tale. Barrie loved his character and the story and brought up a lot of good things in it. He wrote Peter as an exaggeration of a cocky overconfident boy, but, like, Peter wasn’t afraid of death. It says “he felt scared, yet he felt only one shudder run through him when any other person would have felt scared up until death. With his blithe attitude towards death, he says, “To die will be an awfully big adventure”.” and with that Barrie is showing us both a naivety and bravery we possess as children but lose as adults and is basically telling us that we shouldn’t let that go. Like, the point is growing up is inevitable but you don’t have to lose everything.

And so yeah….I’m really passionate about Peter Pan.

lotrlocked

Today, I have learned.

mattsunsthighs

reallifetink holy shit

douevencomicbro-deactivated2025

I didn’t wake up expecting to know so much about Peter Pan

#peter pan

Noel's reaction to the kiss of Kairi and Keiichiro.

#lupinranger #kaitou sentai lupinranger vs keisatsu sentai patoranger #patoranger #lupinranger vs patoranger #yano kairi #Keiichiro Asaka #Noel Takao #super sentai #tokusatsu #stage show

Kairi and Keiichiro kissing on a stage show!

#kaitou sentai lupinranger vs keisatsu sentai patoranger #lupinranger vs patoranger #yano kairi #Keiichiro Asaka #super sentai #tokusatsu #stage show #lupinranger #patoranger

myidiocyiscontagious

👏 Stop👏Romanticizing👏Persephone 👏And 👏 Hades 👏 Relationship 👏

crypticbeliever123

The older versions of the myth actually suggest she went to the Underworld willingly and chose to stay to get away from her mother. Some of the oldest myths don’t even include Hades in the story but rather have Persephone go down to tend to the miserable souls she heard in the ground without Hades even interacting with her.

cthonisprincess

There is no “pre-patriarchal” version of the Persephone myth where she rules the Underworld on her own and Hades isn’t present.

Please stop spreading this crap and misinforming people.

Persephone was however, empowered by her marriage to Hades. Placing her in a pre-patriarchal context, devoid of her greatest challenges and triumphs REDUCES her agency as a goddess and a feminist figure.

crypticbeliever123

Who said pre-patriarchal? Because I sure didn’t. I’m just saying there are older versions of the myth such as the ones listed on this site:

http://tehomet.net/persephone.html

I’m not trying to misinform people. I’m trying to inform people of older versions of the myth they, much like yourself, might be unaware of. And seriously, pre-patriarchal? I literally never said that, nor have I ever used that term before now. But yeah, sure, go ahead and use that word all you like. Not like a version of the story where she became the badass queen of the Underworld all on her own without needing a man behind her makes her even more of a feminist figure as opposed to someone who was empowered BY her relationship to a MAN.

cthonisprincess

*Facepalms*

Oh wow, you read a website.

Now can you tell me the ancient sources that this story is referring to. Or at least some sources that are peer-reviewed and written by Classics PhDs.

The only source that states a “Persephone wonders down to the Underworld” tale is written by Charlene Spretnak in 1992 who, by her own admission, rewrote the myths so that her four year old daughter could read them and gain an interest in mythology. The tale is in itself a beautiful tale, but is a modern invention.

The actual tale of “Hades and Persephone” is found in Hesiod’s Theogony and The Homeric Hymn To Demeter.

Persephone’s empowerment came from the fact that her husband loved her so much that, despite living in a patriarchal society, he ensured that the would be his equal in everything. Besides this, the tale was written for women as it details the struggles that women faced then.

Persephone was quite often the goddess that many would call upon for aid. The tale of Orpheus is an excellent example of how they ruled together and made decisions together, with Persephone being able to persuade him to change his mind.

Hades and Persephone’s marriage was the ideal for the time and were often portrayed on the vases given to newlyweds. The were always portrayed as having loving, supportive marriage and he was the only major god that never had an affair (don’t believe that Roman bullshit).

myidiocyiscontagious

Alright well, what I was talking about was the versions where Hades kidnaps his niece, bribes Zeus to not do anything, and Persephone is sad and depressed and only gets to see her mother, who she loves dearly, for half the year every year.

I wasn’t aware of the actual marriage they’re said to have had, which gave them happiness. It still makes me salty that people assumes she LOVES him though. She doesn’t feel towards him romantically, but their marriage is strong from m their partnership.

cthonisprincess

Zeus was not, quote, “bribed” not to do anything. In fact, everything that Hades did in the myth was legal.

Ancient Athenian wedding preparations began under cover of night with the bride being ‘abducted’ to the groom’s house in a chariot. The groom would give the bride gifts, and the families would feast together. During the ceremony, the bride would eat a piece of fruit given to her by her husband, typically an apple or pomegranate, to signify that her needs were now going to be provided for by her husband. Later, after the ceremony, the marriage was consummated.

In the myths, Zeus had earlier promised Hades his choice of wife since he was given the Underworld as his lot. Hades desired Persephone as his bride and arranges the marriage with Persephone’s father.

He presents a gift to her (the narcissus flower in the field of Nysa) and after Persephone accepts it by pulling it from the earth, he takes her into his chariot to bring her with him to her new home.

He gives her further honours once she gets to the Underworld to show his commitment and love for her Persephone eats pomegranate seeds given to her by Hades, signifying that she is bound to Hades as his wife.

Scholars believe that it was after the seeds, that Hades and Persephone consummated the marriage before Persephone went to see Demeter to assure her that she was all right.

The stretch of time between Kore’s transformation into Persephone is anywhere from a couple months to a year in the hymn— nine days between Demeter’s search and finding out from Hecate and Helios that Aidoneus had carried away her daughter, and the few months to a year she spends in Eleusis at her newly-built temple the Telesterion refusing to speak with the Olympians.

Even when Persephone is recounting her stay to her mother, she says nothing about ravishment, or rape, or seduction. Not a single word, whereas the writers would have made that abundantly clear in other texts about the abductions of other women. Basically there is no real evidence that she was ill-treated, abused, raped or in general badly treated by Hades; in fact, the HHTD directly mentions that Persephone was a guest of honour in Hades’ household.

Hades gets the bad rap in modern society even though he was the only Greek god who remained faithful to his wife because he became a Satan analogue after the rise of Christian monotheism and trinitarianism.

The original myth was a warning parable and morality tale of sorts, meant for its ancient audience… a morality parable that no longer resonates with modern society because women are no longer the property of their father or husband.

The moral of the story is this: you should respect and consult with your wife and speak with your daughter before marrying her off, otherwise life at home will be a living hell, not just for the father, but also the new husband.

Demeter makes Zeus’ life very difficult because he did not consult her in his choice of husband for Persephone. She sends a blight on all of Zeus’ worshippers until he fixes what he did without her consent.

Likewise, Persephone unwittingly accepted the marriage proposal of Hades without knowing that she had been given to him and resisted being taken away to be his wife. However, once she realizes how genuine Hades’ love is for her, as seen when he gives her the gift of equality in both rulership and marriage, as well as a portion of his own timai (honor) the honor bestowed upon him by mortals, she comes to the decision to accept the pomegranate seeds, thereby accepting his offer as a husband. The acceptance of the seeds in myth is a code for sexual intercourse since this was the last gift offering by the groom before consummating his marriage with the bride.

Once Persephone is with Demeter again, she lies about the pomegranate seeds, telling her mother that Hades ‘forced’ her to eat them, though we already know that all he did was slip her the pomegranate and she accepted in secret before she was about to be taken away.

This is despite the fact that Hades gave her the chance to leave and never have to see her again and well, she had plenty of reasons to accept his marriage.

Intriguingly enough, there are Ancient sources that support Persephone loving Hades.

Virgil, Georgics 1. 36 ff (trans. Fairclough) (Roman bucolic C1st B.C.)

“Tartarus hopes not for you [Caesar in the guise of Hades] as king, and may such monstrous lust of empire never seize you, though Greece is enchanted by the Elysian fields, and Proserpine reclaimed cares not to follow her mother.”

–> Persephone prefers to stay with Hades than returning to her mother.

Ovid, Metamorphoses, X:

Orpheus singing to Hades and Persephone:

“If able, I would bear it, I do not deny my effort—but the god of Love has conquered me—a god so kindly known in all the upper world. We are not sure he can be known so well in this deep world, but have good reason to conjecture he is not unknown here, and if old report almost forgotten, that you stole your wife is not a fiction, Love united you the same as others.”

–> Just like in Metamorphoses V, love is shown as something that unites two persons. More specifically, it is directly mentioned by Orpheus that Hades and Persephone are united in love.

Lucan, Pharsalia, VI:

The witch Erichtho calls upon the Underworld deities to allow her to bring back a dead person.

“…to Persephone who shuns her mother in heaven…”

“… I shall tell the world the nature of that food which confines Persephone beneath the huge weight of earth, the bond of love that unites her to the gloomy king of night, and the defilement she suffered, such that her mother would not call her back.”

–> Persephone is directly mentioned to have a dislike towards her mother, Demeter, and is specifially mentioned to have a bond of love with Hades. The so-called ‘defilement’ is a direct reference to the pomegrante and the loss of her virginity (In that time period, a virgin having sex was referred to as “defilement”).

Claudian, Rape of Proserpina

The brief summary of this is that while Hades is taking Persephone to the Underworld, a terrified Persephone cries and laments her fate. But Hades feels genuine remorse for the fact that he had to abduct her and comforts Persephone by wiping away her tears and swearing to her a good marriage. Immediately after this happens, Hades is no longer a gloomy and frightening figure to Persephone but is instead a cheerful and kind god. Persephone immediately perks up once she is aware of her situation (she is simply getting married), and a beautiful and joyful wedding is held at the underworld.

It’s a shame that Claudian never managed to finish his tale because it’s a beautiful take and directly hints at the fact that Hades and Persephone had children as this theme is brought up several times.

Lucian’s Dialogues of the dead

A man asks Hades permission to go back to life and he refuses constantly until Persephone gives a suggestion. Persephone addresses Hades as “my husband” and he says “Since it’s Persephone’s pleasure (I grant the favor)” or “I cannot refuse a lady”.

–> Despite the short dialogue, we can easily see that Hades and Persephone are depicted as possessing a peaceful marriage and are presented as a couple who rule with equal power, unlike the dialogues of Zeus and Hera where she actually cries for the things Zeus does to her (cheating).

And we can see generally, from the vase paintings or other texts (like Aristophanes Frogs) that the Greeks were in the belief that Hades and Persephone marriage was ideal. And in several religious cults, and in some cities, they would be the divine parallel of what an ideal marriage should be.

In the depictions (literary, artistic, etc.) where Hades and Persephone are shown together, they are always shown to be happy. Persephone is never portrayed as a miserable wife and Hades is never portrayed as a cruel husband. Hades and Persephone were idealized by ancient Greek women themselves.

It’s Hades and Persephone, not Zeus and Hera, who were depicted on pottery given to newlyweds. The fact that Persephone was much more prominent as a happily married queen, rather than the actual goddess of marriage, speaks volumes to how this story was thought about and regarded by the culture that owned it.