Good Omens Meta Library

Searchable collection of Good Omens meta posts & comments - List of utilized tags. Please feel free to hit me up with questions or suggestions!      Main blog:  https://losyanya.tumblr.com/

[captainfantasticalright]

Good Omens: A companion to Owls- biblical-cinematographical references.

Since Cecil B. DeMille played such a big role, here are some side by side scenes from The Ten Commandments and A Companion to Owls.

And most importantly, side by side scenes with the Book of Job and A Companion to Owls.

[crowleysgirl56]

Something I’ve noticed, throughout history Aziraphale changes his outfits just as much as Crowley.

I mean, at first he’s dressed like “An Angel”. This takes place during the periods when he is just observing Earth as an Angel of heaven.

Then once he’s “Gone Native” and is hanging out on Earth on a more permanent basis, he dresses to keep up with style and the times, and most importantly to blend in.

Then we get to 1941 and suddenly his outfit is static and unchanging. For 80 years he remains in the same outfit (and yes for this example I’m not including Brother Francis or Warlock’s birthday party because those were disguises).

He even laments to Crowley about his jacket being ruined when it was hit by a paintball.

And then is so happy when he fixes it.

So why is this? Why does he insist on wearing the same thing? For 80 years? Well after fashion has moved on multiple times. What’s so special and significant about this outfit exactly? Why does he love it so much?

It’s almost like perhaps something happened in 1941 that Aziraphale is trying to preserve. Or maybe, to recapture. Something to remind him of that night. GEE, I WONDER WHAT THAT COULD BE?!

I’ll see myself out.

[krakensdottir]

Assuming Aziraphale is walking blindly back into Heaven's clutches with no suspicion or dread in his heart is wildly underestimating his intelligence and discounting previous character development, including the effect Crowley has had on him over the millennia.

Assuming he's playing 4D chess and is being 100% selfless and noble and only going back to save Earth is wildly underestimating the power of cults and the effect they've had on Aziraphale, and is assuming progress that he hasn't yet actually made.

Both of these things can be true. Both of these things ARE true. He is trying to do the Right Thing. He is also falling prey to a very clever and manipulative angel who's convinced him that this is the right thing to do, because part of him still very much wants to believe that the system can be fixed, and the Metatron has handed him desperately needed hope on a silver platter.

It's important to recognize that his motivations aren't simple here. It's not all about Crowley, or he'd have turned down the deal when Crowley didn't agree. It's not just about saving Earth, either, because he isn't told the Second Coming is imminent until after he's accepted the offer. (You can argue all you want that he actually knows, that he's frantically trying to send coded messages the whole time, but that is only an interpretation. All we actually have to go on is the chronological events onscreen, which contradict the first conclusion and offer no evidence for the second.)

Thing is, this situation is complicated. And it's fucked. There are no good options visible to either of them here. Aziraphale has chosen the one that looks the least bad. Yes, he is almost certainly wrong about how bad it's going to be. And you know what, that's okay. It's okay for him to make a mistake. We don't have to shit on him for it, and we don't have to frantically pretend it's not a mistake, either. I promise these are not the only options for engaging with this story.

[good-omens-meta-library]

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@tenok​ tags: #thissss #he tries his best #he has no other options that can get him desired results #he's also traumatized and desperately needs to belong and be good and do good #I think some people just looks at this from point where it's good option of cottage with crowley and bad wrong option of breaking crowley's #heart and Aziraphale stupid or evil or wrong and should be punished or forced or drugged if he chooses second #but it's more like scene from the start when crowley decides to ask some questions #we know ita tragedy puts in motion! Aziraphale sees that it's stupid desidion that will bring him trouble! #but crowley doesn't know it he won't believe if you tell them and most important they won't be crowley if they don't ask #so like... I think Aziraphale deserves from fandom same nuance and support that crowley gets because of them falling

@ineffable-endearments​ reply: Neil has commented that Season 2 is about getting the characters where they need to be for the next part of the story. Aziraphale needs to be where he is.

In the end, this is THE ONLY way he can develop as a character. Acknowledging that he is making his decisions based on a number of dangerous lies is essential for understanding that progress. But trying to read him as cold and ill-intended in a way that is not supported in the story, or as oblivious and unintelligent in a way that is also not supported in the story, is denying very central parts of him, and denying the ways that he can and will rise to the occasion.

@cobbbvanth​ tags:  #i think people tend to miss that the first thing aziraphale says when metatron offers him the job is 'but i dont want to go back to heaven' #he KNOWS it's rotten and messy and mean #but he also recognizes the potential to redirect it's power for good #he doesn't yet realize the extent to which the system was built to do exactly what it's doing - harm - but he's not entirely clueless either

@penig​ comment:  Thank you! Whatever happens, assuming that Aziraphale isn't straining every nerve to do the best he can for everybody (except himself) is against all his character development. He is in a bind.

@lenaellsi​ tags:  #i do think he's going in knowing he can't trust anyone fully--although I'd argue that he at least WANTS to believe the metatron #based on the whole “i don't think he's as bad a fellow as I thought/I think I may have misjudged him” line #though of course he doesn't trust any of the archangels #and I want to reiterate--he absolutely still thinks that Heaven Good Hell Bad in broad terms and he has GOT to stop with that #but yes. it's a mistake. we have to stop pretending he's walking in like he's on a secret mission to burn it all down. he's not #and it certainly wasn't all for crowley. #I'm not going to pretend I'm not upset with aziraphale for choosing something that (from the audience's POV) is so clearly a trap #but i adore him. and I get it. I get that he really does think that this is something he can do to help people. he always tries his best #what a mess.

@frystikysta​ tags:  #characters make mistakes and thats ok #but also!! #he is very intelligent #he knows what he is doing #he knows things might not be ok #but he's still gonna fucking try #even if it is a trap

@jade-lightnleaks​ tags: #aziraphale has so much compartementalised so it's all all these different things all at once #it's very complicated #and all the cognitive dissonance #and there's not any one motivation but so many all at once and conflicting and not resolved together at all #it can't be reduced down to. any one of them and trying to do so loses so much of the character and motivations etc

[baggvinshield]

their argument over Gabriel and how they "resolved" it set up the Final Fifteen of ep6 and is a microcosm of their relationship issues

The fight between Aziraphale and Crowley about Gabriel goes like this:

Aziraphale believes that it's Safest for them to deal with the gabriel situation by being involved and solving it together.

Crowley believes that it's Safest for them to get as far away from the Gabriel situation as possible, either by removing gabriel from them or themselves from him.

Aziraphale also believes that it's Right to help Gabriel, because Aziraphale believes in the innate goodness of everyone and everything.

Crowley believes that it's Right to not help Gabriel or frankly to care about him at all, because Gabriel hurt Aziraphale repeatedly over millennia and then tried to destroy him.

They approach this issue with such a difference in their core beliefs and values that they have to disagree, it's inevitable. And that would be fine. Except that the way they resolve this argument is utter bullshit.

First off, Aziraphale responds to Crowley with an ultimatum: do it my way or leave. (Which, hello, trauma from being cast out of heaven? Wtf Aziraphale. )

Crowley responds by telling Aziraphale he'll have to do this alone, and then predictably leaving.

Crowley only changes his mind and returns because he learns that Aziraphale is in real existential peril. Then they do a series of Things, none of which actually revolve their big disagreement.

Crowley offers a sort-of apology ("can we take it as stated?") but doesn't say what he's apologizing for. He doesn't tell Aziraphale what he thinks he got wrong (spoiler: because he absolutely doesn't think he Was wrong, and his belief is reinforced by the threat of destruction hanging over Aziraphale's head). It's "I'm sorry for whatever I said, get in the car" all over again.

Aziraphale doesn't even apologize lmao, and why should he? He must be right, because Crowley's back! And Crowley's doing their ritualistic "apology" dance that they use in place of actual fucking conversation. So Aziraphale doesnt need to acknowledge anything about his line of reasoning or his belief system, they can just carry on.

Especially because, crucially, Aziraphale doesn't know that Crowley was actually right! And helping Gabriel will put them both in extreme danger! And he doesn't know this, because Crowley didn't tell him!

Crowley didnt tell Aziraphale about the Book of Life punishment because he believes Aziraphale is Safest not worrying about that, and that it's Right for him to protect Aziraphale from that hurtful, harmful knowledge.

They literally do. not. discuss this issue ever again. They have no idea, or none that we're textually shown anyway, why the other reacted the way they did to Gabriel. They simply move forward with the problem, without even an iota of enlightenment about each other's points of view. They think they already know each other perfectly, right? They've been talking for millions of years, Crowley loves rescuing Aziraphale, etc.

So then we get to ep6. And it's really the same fundamental disagreement:

Aziraphale believes they will be Safest with their hands in the game.

Aziraphale believes it's Right to force Heaven, through what he has been manipulated into thinking is his new authority, to do Good (actual moral good, like he and Crowley do).

Crowley believes it's Safest for them both to stay as far away from the machinations of heaven, and by extension hell, as possible.

Crowley believes it's Right for him to reject Heaven as they once rejected him, to reject their whole dichotomous system in fact. He believes it's Right for Aziraphale to reject Heaven too, because Heaven tried to destroy Aziraphale.

And once again, Crowley doesn't tell Aziraphale of the danger they're in - Armageddon the Sequel, plus Archangels being demoted and having their memory wiped.

They still do not and cannot understand one another's motives and beliefs here. Because they have never had this freedom of choice before these last few years, and in that time they have never talked about this openly. Weirdly, Gabriel's arrival gave them a chance to hash all this out. In another world, maybe they knew exactly what the other wanted, and could therefore choose each other at this critical juncture.

But that's not what happened.

(cue my "the irony of the serpent of Eden protecting someone he loves from knowledge" tag).

Edit to say, I have Thoughts about Why they communicate like this, which I'm trying to gather for another post.

[good-omens-meta-library]

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@amuseoffyre reply: And you see the moment Aziraphale’s resolve wavers before he gets in the lift and he asks the Metatron about the big plan. And the instant he finds out about the Second Coming, you can see him set his jaw and realise this is what he has to do. This is the ‘big one’ Crowley idly mentioned in Berkeley square after the last failed Armageddon.

If they had talked, if Crowley had mentioned it was on the way, if Crowley had had the time to tell him what he’d seen and heard in Heaven, he would have realised even being an Archangel won’t help.

As far as Aziraphale knows, Gabriel was cast out for liaising with Beez. He doesn’t know anything about the trial or the reason for it because they didn’t have time to even touch on that (if they would even have managed to use their words). Which adds another layer to the pain pie: if Crowley is with him in Heaven, neither of them will be forced out. 

It’s like Crowley’s own metaphor about the bees: Aziraphale wants to get Crowley into the hive where no one will pay any attention to him so he’ll be safe. But (and thank you Terry for this) Crowley has been inside the hive and knows there can only be one person in charge and anyone else who crosses them. Slash stab.

But the trouble is that this kind of non-communicating has had to be their way of talking to each other for so long, because there’s so much they couldn’t say because it could put them in danger. As Crowley says in the Job flashback “I’m not going to tell anyone. Nobody has to know”. They live in secrets and deception and lies and giving anything voice could be a danger.

@kaiannanthi reply: The thing is, Aziraphale doesn't always do the morally good thing. He has trouble parsing through shades of grey, and it always has unintended consequences. The graverobbing was bad until it wasn't, and when Wee Morag ended up killed from it, he was appalled about it again. The whole thing is about perception, really. It's different when it's someone you know, Crowley said back then. And they should've remembered that and applied it to one another.

@dontjustquestnsavor reply: THIS!! There's so much that Crowley knows about that Aziraphale has no freaking clue to. Crowley actively chooses not to be involved in heaven because he knows more or less how heaven functions. Even if he doesn't know all of the plans and has to piece things together from what he gets from hell and Aziraphale, Crowley knows enough to want to stay far away from heaven. But Aziraphale is still so enamored with the "vision" of what heaven is supposed to be. He acts completely ignorant to what he now has to know deep down is a bad system. But actually acknowledging that would send him into a proper spiral and I bet Crowley knows that, so he tries to lure Aziraphale away slowly. I mean that scene in the cellar was even more evidence of how Crowley slowly coaxes Aziraphale to expand his views and look for the context of the rules he has been given. Because if Aziraphale finally gets to the conclusion that the classist system of heaven isn't all good and cracked up to be, then it'll be gentler than Crowley just dragging him out by the ankles. Crowley knows enough to not need the approval of heaven and be defiant. Are a lot of his actions out of spite to heaven? Sure. But aren't most people spiteful when the rose colored glasses are removed and you see the context of how systems are put in place to keep people in line? Aziraphale hasn't actively acknowledged this because he functions more out of fear than spite. He still believes that heaven is the say all be all of everything, even hell. And so the only way to guarantee them safety to him, is within heaven. If we get season 3 this is going to be so freaking explosive because eventually they will have to talk to each other. Those gates are finally officially OPEN, and they're going to have to communicate in order to keep each other around. @ibroketuesday reply: This is also the exact argument they had in the bandstand in season one — Crowley wanting to flee together, Aziraphale wanting to keep his hands in the game. 

@thatoldbanshee tags: #to some extent same thing happens in s1 #both of them keep information from the other until it's a little too late #just bc they think they should (and can) take care of it alone without involving the other and putting him in harm's way #so when the other disagrees with their proposed course of action they lash out and shut down the conversation entirely #bc they think they know what's better when trying to protect their fragile lives as they are #instead of actually working together they're like ''ugh forget it I'll risk myself and take care of it you just wait here safely'' #this post was gaiman approved apparently; nice @constellationscharts tags: #additionally crowley knows that if something goes wrong they are going to make Aziraphale forget him #forget everything they ever were. everything they ever had. #and the moment aziraphale hears the words 'the second coming' he looks back knowing he's just backed himself into a corner #he has to go through with this because the alternative is to let it happen without his sabotaging #but he's never sabotaged something without crowley's help before #and they both know that this means crowley will need to put himself in a position of antagonising aziraphale #in order to help him @virgo-79 tags: #these character flaws are rooted in survival and keeping each other safe #the miscommunication and lack of communication is so avoidable but also so easy to understand and empathize with 

@merenwennolat reply: Everything here, amazing

I was gonna put this in the tags, but I think I wanted to write it as a longer addition instead -

The other thing about both these situations is that there is no real possible compromise. In both situations, either help/assistance is given, or it's not. There is no safe (or apparent) middle ground to give help or get involved just a little bit, because *any* involvement carries the same consequences (a mirror in some ways to how demons all Fell regardless of real or percieved level of rebellion, and a mirror to the real-world concept that all sin is equally bad).

It makes their freedom of choice more complicated and harder again to talk about, and gives them less avenues to try and agree on a conclusion. It makes the bare bones of the ending inevitable through circumstance, because neither of them could choose to do differently.

They could have communicated more, and stopped hurting each other, and prevented the total feeling of abandonment and despair. But Aziraphale could not have said no without changing who he is, and Crowley could not agree to go for the same reason.

@eliduremaybe tags:

@lunar-system tags: #they both believe love is enough #but it's not cause they express it in polar opposite ways

@ezzi-the-critter tags: #this is why though i think the coffee theory is fun #it’s not true? like this lines up with the info aziraphale has #and the choices he consistently makes #think about melting the body in that flashback scene #he does what he thinks is right and doesn’t listen until someone puts it in a wat he can get behind (the doctor trying to save lives) #and he wants so genuinely desperately to make crowley happy #and crowley is not happy he hasn’t been happy this entire season #aziraphale has limited info and he wants to make  things better for /evereone/ #this is consistent with his character! #and the metatron manipulated him really good! and crowley didn’t give him all the info! (Gabriel being cast out etc) #idk i just have a lot of empathy for az here. Crowley too. They’re just trying to do the best they can with the info they have

@khaothanawat tags: #YES IT’S SUCH GOOD STORYTELLING it’s absolutely delicious #their communication is hilariously bad possibly because they’ve spent millions of years being physically unable to openly communicate #and so they settled into a relationship that was all sort of half unspoken and entirely undefined #so then even when they were out in the open and had acknowledged their place in one another’s lives #it’s STILL all for the most part unspoken #even in the moment crowley finally opens up about his feelings he doesn’t really say it all #he still dances around the crux of it #like yes he says we could be us and he talks about a deliberate future and he kisses him like he’s #clearer than either of them ever have been #but he’s still not completely able to get there #(despite trying very hard fjfj) #and that unspokenness around something that is so visibly certain (their feelings for one another) alone seems to cause so much disconnect #because even though they’re committed to one another for eternity they’d never declared that to one another #all these little gaps in their communication that need to be slowly patched up and reworked #so that they don’t tear themselves apart all over again

@spookydazechaos reply: Remember when the first season ended and everyone was writing nice long "night at Crowley’s flat" fics where they sorted out all their issues and got their act together?

And then the lockdown video came out and we were all SHOCKED because they still, STILL HADN'T gotten their shit together yet?

And now this and they are exactly where they were 4 years ago AGAIN

I think we're all just going to have to assume that unless we actually SEE IT, no communication has occurred

@humanityinahandbag reply: I feel as though I know why they don't communicate as they should and how, possibly, they may start.

Crowley has tried in the past, but he's been so terrified of rejection (starting with the fall) that he's held it all in. And now that he's finally been rejected, as my good friend @samthefrank said so well, the gloves are off. Nothing is going to hold him back from saying what needs to be said. What he should be saying. Because he's going into this thinking he no longer has a chance. There's nothing stopping him from absolutely revealing his whole soul.

And Aziraphale couldn't participate in a relationship yet, because he doesn't know what Crowley wants, what he needs. And why is that?

Because Aziraphale was told, early on, that you do not ask questions.

And now that he's going up to Heaven to see the harsh realities of his choice, that's also going to be the first thing he starts doing. He's lost Crowley. In his head, there's nothing left to lose. Heaven took it from him. He took it from himself. Why shouldn't he start asking questions? Why should he be afraid anymore?

These two are going to lose the things that held them back at the beginning. Nothing is stopping them from absolutely offering their hearts out in their palms.

And won't it be a surprise to them both when the other so delicately and lovingly takes it. Protects it. Wants it.

They've always held themselves back out of fear and trepidation. When they feel as though all is lost anyway, what's stopping them from absolutely revealing everything they've ever wanted to say?

Give me an absolute breakdown in Season 3. I want to see it. I need to see it. If these two don't shout I love you at one another after bearing their souls, then what even is the point.

@lizdarcyfan reply: Crowley's apology is not actually "I'm sorry, I was wrong," because he still believes that he's right. His apology is actually "I'm sorry that I said what I said and that I hurt you by saying it (even though I was right)." Aziraphale doesn't understand this and would only apologize if he felt that he actually was wrong 

@penny-archer reply: Yesss exactly. And the ways they (fail to) communicate in those arguments tap precisely into their own fears insecurities. Crowley is afraid that the one person who maybe, possibly understands him will see him for who he is change his mind and reject him, because at the end of the day he'll never be Good enough.

Aziraphale is terrified of being rejected by his "family," because if Heaven rejects him then he must be Bad, right? So he's always desperately trying to hang onto both and the stronger his feelings for Crowley get, the more forceful he is with this balancing act.

[good-omens-meta-library]

Hello! Is this blog still active? In the wake of season 2 there's been some amazing meta circulating and I was curious whether there were plans to curate it at some point. I would be happy to offer help/ assistance! Thank you for all the wonderful posts over the years ♥️

Hi! Thank you for your kind words and for checking in! Well, the blog has been mostly hibernating (although I had no idea posting a Bandstand scene/Pride and Prejudice visual comparison right before S2 would be so on the money). 100% agree on the abundance of new amazing meta!!! I've been basking in it on my main and storing it copiously in the drafts (including yours <3 it's wonderful). And I plan to start curating here in short order (perhaps even tonight, if I find the time), but have not yet because I have been enjoying making my own little bits of original content and just needed time to process S2 myself. Let's just say my reaction to the finale was quite emotional, and wandering back onto this blog over the past week to glance at S1 meta was both informative and MORE emotional, as I kept stumbling across gems like

Aged like fine wine :)

But I'm fine now (totally fine), and excited to delve into everything I have stored up. Soon, promise!

[on-stardust-wings]

Saw a gif of Crowley's freak out over Gabriel and got hung up on how dramatic it looks, how intense, and then it hit me. Guys, he's sunglasses-free. That's why his reaction looks so over the top. We're used to seeing Crowley's eyes hidden and only the rest of his face expressing his emotions. But not here! We get to see his wide freaked out, shocked, "what the fuck is this it's Gabriel!" eyes. Because he's not wearing sunglasses!

Crowley walks into the bookshop all casually without sunglasses. He's not wearing sunglasses. Do you see? In season one he takes them off in the bookshop, yes, but while he's super drunk. And then again sitting amongst the flames when he's devastated and thinks Aziraphale died. Season one Crowley takes off his sunglasses for more than a moment AT HOME. In his flat. He very briefly takes them off at the bookshop, but never while sober, never just like that.

Season two Crowley is either very comfortable with his eyes now (unlikely, that's character development you show on screen), or he's very comfortable in the bookshop.

Feeling very normal about this. Brb screaming.

[good-omens-meta-library]

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@suavissimapenna reply: Except for when he first walks in, Crowley is NEVER wearing his glasses in the bookshop in the new trailer (in the present day). And we don’t actually see him take them off. They just disappear in the scene cut. Not sure if it’s a miracle or trailer editing or something else.

He IS wearing them in the bookshop in the 40s flashback, even though they look *very* cozy. Definitely some kind of change in how comfortable he feels!

@krakensdottir reply: That’s it. It’s the fact that Gabriel is there in the bookshop, smack in the middle of Crowley’s safe space, just walking around like he lives there. Keeping in mind that he isn’t just Some Dude - he’s an Archangel, possibly the Archest of angels depending on who you ask - and Crowley’s reaction to suddenly encountering him THERE of all places isn’t too surprising.

And I agree, he’s no more comfortable showing his eyes in general than he was in season 2. He’s still got his glasses on in every shot we see of him outside the bookshop. But the fact that he’s without them in some of the bookshop scenes, and that he whips them off as soon as he comes in to announce that he’s back? That’s making a statement.

@charlotteharlatan reply: Yes this! By contrast Crowley also has the “lightning” moment out in the street in front of the shop (I’m guessing out of frustration bc Gabriel is there and Aziraphale is being way too nice about it). This was an over the top reaction too, it just doesn’t have as much punch, even with the explosive lightning, because his eyes are covered, like we’re used to seeing them.

My guess is that he hasn’t fully moved into the bookshop at this point in the story but he’s very close to that (hence his increased comfort and immediate removal of sunglasses upon entering the shop, before he knew Gabriel was there). He was THIS. CLOSE. And now here’s this amnesiac archangel arriving out of nowhere and mucking everything up, undoing all his progress (from Crowley’s point of view, anyway).

I’d even bet Gabriel will comment on Crowley’s eyes (bc amnesia, he won’t even remember he’s an Angel, much less that Crowley is a demon) and make Crowley self-conscious about it all over again despite any efforts Aziraphale will make to smooth over the situation.

AND Aziraphale is hiding Gabriel UPSTAIRS from the looks of the trailer, and we’ve never even seen the flat above the bookshop, so it’s not unreasonable to assume Crowley has never been up there, that it’s sort of an inner sanctum for Aziraphale. And here the Angel is, helping the person who told Crowley-disguised-as-Aziraphale to “shut his stupid mouth and die already,” who very much does not deserve his help or his trust, and yet. Maybe Crowley didn’t even tell Az about that part, to spare his feelings. Of course Crowley would be beside himself. There is just such delicious potential for character development here AAAAHHH I’m losing my mind 😭

@scumyuck tags:  #CROWLEY IS NO LONGER USING THE SUNGLASSES AS HIS SHIELD TO HIDE HIS VULNERABILITY AROUND AZIRAPHALE HE WANTS AZIRAPHALE TO KNOW AND TO SEE

[fuckyeahgoodomens]

So, in the after-Lift Home scene in 1941 - they seem to be drinking the Châteauneuf-du-Pape. Probably the 1921 year they drink in S1.

So when Aziraphale says: I have several very nice bottles of Châteauneuf-du-Pape in the back. I picked up a dozen cases in 1921, and there's still some left for special occasions.

The undertone might be like: Oh remember the last special ocassion when you saved my books and we had candlelit date dinner together?

[good-omens-meta-library]

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@insertnerdyjokehere​ reply: Here me out: We had this specific wine about a hundred years ago the night I realized I loved you so I bought a BUNCH of it SPECIFICALLY because it reminds me of you and what you did for me that night, that way when I'm feeling particularly lonely I can drink it and think of you and wallow in my own pathetic misery.

AND/OR: That night Crowley said he liked it and Aziraphale figured that he can't tell Crowley he cares about him but he COULD show him by buying as much of it as he possibly could.

#the twist is that crowley only said that to be polite and he doesn't think the wine is anything special #but has spent the last 100 years drinking it cause he thinks Aziraphale likes it and he wouldn't want to offend the angel

@youshouldseemeinadeerstalker​ tags: #arent they just drinking those bottles over and over again #cause they filled back up when they sobered up

[xofemeraldstars]

Pride & Prejudice // Good Omens - Cinematic Parallels (insp.)

[orpiknight]

Good Omens Questions Neil Gaiman Has Already Answered On Tumblr

Hello there! It is officially The Final Month of the wait for Season 2.

I've been very excited about Good Omens S2. And since I was already perusing Neil Gaiman's blog ( @neil-gaiman ) for extra info on the GO world, I decided to start throwing answered Asks on a doc. It was mainly for me and my friends for reference, but I finally decided to post it to here, too.

Neil Gaiman Tumblr QnA Collection

As I was going through, I saw there were a lot of repeated questions. A lot of a lot of them. So, maybe this will help a bit? And yes, it does have information for Season 2. (BUT, but not the leak spoiler. It is leak-free!)

I also added some niche extra info and BTS that was buried in there.

Thanks to Neil Gaiman for taking so much time to answer so many questions! I really enjoy the behind-the-scenes info and learning more about the GO world.

I also made my own QnA about this here (please check it before messaging me about anything): OrpiKnight's QnA

[neil-gaiman]

What an astonishing work of compilation! Thank you so much.

[krakensdottir]

Okay I need to have a quick word with the fandom here, guys.

So, ‘dear boy’ does not mean what some of you think it means. Not from a guy who’s LARPing as an older English dude, anyway. It’s kind of just a phrase men use for each other, not exclusive to loved ones or even people you actually know. It’s also not necessarily a nice saying - quite often it’s a veiled way of saying ‘you absolute pillock’. Picture it being said in the most passive-aggressive tone humanly possible for the full effect.

Point is, Aziraphale probably says it a lot. There’s no point getting hung up on who he says it to, because the way he’s using it is not actually an endearment. Not like the way he says Crowley’s name, which I could probably write an essay about.

[krakensdottir]

NOW we’re all on the same page.

[good-omens-meta-library]

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@geeoharee reply: oh yeah it's fun as a neutral phrase, but it's FUN when it means 'you are an ant who I am currently deigning not to crush'

'Dear boy' is far more of a statement about who Aziraphale is than who he's addressing. It's part of his vibe, it goes with the waistcoat and the manicure.

@perfectlyineffable​ tags:  #yes. there's a difference between 'dear boy' and 'my dear'. one is patronising to neutral. one is neutral to an endearment.  #'dearest' is straight up an endearment though. love seeing that in fics [...] #in my head 'dear boy' is closely related to 'old sport'. they're not *quite* the same but the vibes are similar

[liquidlyrium]

Can we take a moment to appreciate Newton Pulsifer?

I’ve seen some great meta about how he and Anathema mirror Crowley and Aziraphale, and that’s true, but I want to dial in on this post and talk about a very specific way in which Newt and Anathema are foils for each other.

Anathema Device has never had a dream or a wish of her own that wasn’t written down in a book 400 years ago. Wasn’t taught and drilled into her by her family. When she introduces herself to Newt she sounds like she is trying so so hard to sound like a ‘normal person.’ She’s a little more at ease around the Them because kids are more accepting of things. She can introduce herself as an occultist or witch and they’ll accept it as true. When she tries to engage with the adult world with this absolutely mad-sounding goal and profession, no one takes her seriously. She doesn’t care though because she has absolute faith in The Book. There are two categories in Anathema’s brain That Which is In The Book (important) and That Which is Not In The Book (unimportant). And then she loses it, or to put it in a Nice and Accurate way–The Book leaves her.

When Anathema Device loses sight of her dream it is because of external forces.

Newton Pulsifer has had a dream since he was a little kid. He’s always wanted to be a computer engineer. Clearly tried to teach himself the ropes when his interests outstripped the ability of the adults around him. His mum is supportive; he’s still living with her after all, and not once do we see her admonish Newt. Even when he cuts power to the whole block as a kid. She never tells him not to try it or to put it aside. Despite what happens each and every time. “You’ve just been unlucky!” After all, being a computer engineer is a reasonable goal for most people. So when Newt introduces himself to people as a computer engineer it doesn’t sound mad. Except he’s not. It’s a bit of a lie. He probably has the knowledge to be one, sure, but he isn’t one. It’s very telling to me that Newt isn’t even doing anything remotely computer engineering related when we see him start his new job. I don’t know that he even has a degree in computer engineering, but I suspect he doesn’t. How could he have possibly gotten through a computer engineering program without once touching a computer? There’s a lovely cut scene where Newton tells Madam Tracy that he once tried to build a joke circuit that wouldn’t work and it picked up Radio Moscow instead. He can’t even break things right.

When Newton Pulsifer loses his dream it is because of innate forces.

I think Newt has basically given up on the dream of becoming a computer engineer. Yes he’d still like to be, but he isn’t looking for work in the field, and he seems quite adrift. (How else could he have ended up in the Witchfinder Army?) He’s further along than Anathema in that journey of loss. Anathema is still in the raw of it, the self-recriminating part of it when they meet. And you know what’s beautiful about all this? Newt isn’t bitter. It would be so easy for Newt to be bitter and hardened by such a deep loss. Yes, he’s still sad about it, but he’s still trying to make it through life, and he thinks every now and then about what he wanted, but he isn’t Shadwell. He isn’t embittered and caustic. He just wants to figure out what the next part of his journey is going to be and he has the freedom to do so, and he chooses not to be bitter!! He has not been ruined by his grief. He has the opportunity to help Anathema learn not only to deal with the immediate loss of a dream, but to show her hey this is how I fumbled my way through afterwards. It’s not just that he gets to give her the gift of choice. ‘You can choose to be who you want to be, not who everybody told you to be.’ It’s about helping her see her own future and figuring out what that means after she has to abandon everything she had.

[good-omens-meta-library]

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@krakensdottir reply: Newt is fucking adorable and practical and chill and funny and genuinely sweet. And I will fight EVERYONE who says Anathema could ‘do better’ or tries to say he’s not good enough or she’s settling because honey, of the two of them, Newt is going to end up putting up with a lot more bullshit. Anathema is gorgeous and smart as hell but she is also batty as a belfry and wild as an ocean and has hardly had an original thought her entire life. Yes I agree she would make a hot lesbian but she honestly needs someone like Newt. He’s probably the best thing that’s ever happened to her.

#the female characters are just as flawed as the male (or male-depicted) ones #that's a sign of actual good writing #and unfortunately the worshipful attitude of the fandom towards strong women sometimes overlooks this #anathema is a MESS you guys

@aethelflaedladyofmercia reply:  Yes! On this blog we love and support Newt Pulsifer! ❤️

(Also the points about dreams and goals - I think people forget about this when they get mad at Anathema for destroying the second book. Agnes meant well - she was saving the world and taking care of her family - but also she has absolutely been controlling their every move, choice and dream for generations. By destroying the second book, Anathema was making a decision - one of the first she’d ever truly made for herself - and it was that she didn’t want more of the same for herself and her descendants. Which is both a brave and terrifying choice and I support her 💯) 

@ashfae reply: This this this this this this this.

I have an unpopular fandom opinion, which is this: just as Newton is underappreciated in fandom, quite often Anathema is overappreciated. Don’t get me wrong, I *adore* her. I love all the portrayals of badass capable snark Anathema who can hold her own against everything. I love it. Crowley&Anathema sarcastic friendships give me life.

But at the same time, look back at the show/book. She’s capable and unflappable when something’s happened that was in the book, which she’s studied all her life. But whenever something happens that’s outside the confines of the book, or when things aren’t going as expected, she flails. She prepares, she’s got a bread knife, but she’s not so good at improvising when she’s outside of her script. In the show she’s shocked when Newt questions the fact that she always does what Agnes says, making it clear that was asking not out of doubt but just because he wonders if Anathema has really never questioned it, and she’s confused by the very idea. “She’s never failed me; sometimes I’ve failed her.” It sounds like religion, and in a way it is one. Agnes laid down a strict set of guidelines for her descendents to use and Anathema has grown up knowing she was…if not the Chosen One, at least someone with a clearly defined Destiny of Importance. That’s not the same as being capable and confident. And when the time comes she often isn’t, she flails around failing to find the Antichrist and getting frustrated by it, she flips out altogether when the book gets lost, and it’s Newt who figures out how they can improvise to get where they need to be at the right time. Newt has a lifetime of experience in improvising and Anathema almost none.

He also understands her quirks; they both know how long it takes to go through every newspaper looking for patterns that may or may not be significant, they both know how to go through the world not quite being normal. Newt has never gotten to be what he wanted but he keeps trying and he’s never angry or bitter; in the book he’s flat out optimistic. Awkward, sure, and goofy, but those aren’t bad traits. And the thing is, Anathema is awkward and goofy too, but in a New Aquarian Atlantis and UFOs way.

And yeah I’m never shutting up about this: it can certainly be argued that Anathema goes to bed with Newt because the book said she would, and that he just accepts this and lets it happen and maybe that’s poor of him. But later on when a parcel arrives for Mr and Mrs Pulsifer, clearly stating Agnes knew they’d get married, he doesn’t just let it happen. He stops Anathema and asks what she wants, he deliberately derails the descendent impulse he knows perfectly well she has. She gets to choose. He’s not going to let her just fall into a lifetime with him, even if he wants one.

Ultimately pretty much everything in Good Omens is about the power and importance of choosing. Newt and Anathema embody this as much as everyone else and I love them for it, separately and together.

@dubiousduckears reply: People bitch about Newt and Anathema as a pairing and I don’t get what the big deal is. Yeah, we’ve all been disappointed by forced het relationships far too often, and yes, the circumstances that brought them together are definitely fucked up, but that’s not Newt’s fault. It’s Agnes’s prophesy, Anathema taking it as gospel and both of them caught up in the general craziness of the moment. Newt benefited from the situation, but that’s not the same as taking advantage of it. When Anathema introduces him as her boyfriend at the airbase, he’s stunned. He didn’t assume that their encounter in the cottage would lead to a relationship. Anathema put that forward herself with no prompting from him. Did she say that because she’s taking a liking to him or because she assumes that the prophesy about them sleeping together means they should be together now? Both? Who knows, but either way, she didn’t have to move that fast to declare it.

There’s a genuine feeling warmth between them the next morning. When the package arrives addressed to Mr. and Mrs. Pulsifer, Newt does not tease her or give any smug looks about it. He’s more puzzled than pleased. When he encourages Anathema to free herself from Agnes’s further prophesies, he’s actively arguing against the very thing that brought them together and a strong motivation for her to stay with him. He could easily have just commiserated with her over over the new book and the responsibility that came with it, without ever suggesting she get rid of it. It probably wouldn’t have taken much to convince her to keep it, if he’d wanted to argue in favor of that. Many men would have done that, but Newt advocates that she act in her own best interest. If they’re going to make a go of it, it will be because they both want to, not because a long dead ancestor says they will.

Yes, we’ve seen too many remarkable and accomplished women like Anathema paired off with mediocre men who are nowhere near the same league. Newt’s clumsy, lacks direction in his life and probably doesn’t have a lot to fill out his CV, but none of that prevents him from being a worthwhile person. As mentioned above, Newt is prevented from pursuing his dream of being a computer engineer, but instead of wallowing over that, he just tries to make the best of what comes along. Newt had a lot of crazy thrown at him in just a few days and he rolled with it admirably. Once the shock passes, he pitches right in and tries to help. He could have argued, refused to believe, run for the hills. He’s as  scared as any sane person should be, and doesn’t pretend otherwise, but he sticks around. He’s a good listener, was smart enough to notice that Tadfield’s weather is significant and makes calm, practical suggestions when Anathema’s not sure what to do next. He neither bosses her nor expects her to figure everything out on her own and they make a good team.

Are Newt and Anathema right for each other in the long term? Who knows, but it’s certainly plausible and Agnes seems to think so. Perhaps the very reason she foresaw it in the first place is because they’re capable of overcoming the bull that brought them together to build something real.

@thundercrackfic reply: It’s my headcanon that once he accepts that whatever he is going to do with himself, it will have to be entirely analog, Newt will be instantly successful at the most analog things in human existence: making their home together. He’ll be a great dad, cook, gardener, carpenter, everything Earthly and homey that Anathema is too spacy to maintain. He’ll ground her and support her and be a caring and fun father. ♥️

@ambular-d​ comment: Headcanon that Agnes foresaw that Anathema would destroy the book without reading it, but she faithfully wrote it all out and sent it anyway, when she could have filled it with random jokes and commentary or just not written it at all.  She wanted Anathema to have a real, meaningful choice, even if it was one Agnes already knew she would make.

[gayforgoodomens]

Man imagine being an eternal super being of hyper consciousness and reality-bending powers able to do anything and go anywhere you please in the entire universe, and still thinking being an insignificant human enjoying tiny cafés with your best friend and driving your car on Sunday mornings is the most meaningful and happiest existence you could ever dream of living

[sadlynojellybeans]

Why, why do you keep hiding these thoughts in the tags

[good-omens-meta-library]

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@whispsofwind reply: Honestly that's a thing I really love about Terry Pratchett's work in general. The happiness of the ordinary, the wonder of the daily life, and the worthiness of friendship and love. In worlds of Gods and monsters and witches, the most wonderful thing is to share a good meal with a beloved friend.

I find it terribly comforting, that as long as I have people who love me, and stories to experience, then happiness is right there to be found, even when it feels like I am drowning.

(Oh, and perhaps a cat. Life can never look too bleak if a cat loves you)

@aethelflaedladyofmercia reply: I like to think that in their time as agents of Heaven and Hell, they had opportunities to do the whole range from literal world building to striding empires to commanding armies and everything else a being could experience.

But the only times they were actually happy were when they were together.

So that’s what they want.

@heliophile-oxon reply: Il faut cultiver son jardin.

#(one of them told Voltaire that but I can’t decide which one. Maybe they both did neither knowing the other had told him the same thing…)

[larygosomens]

“Excuse me, ma’am, we’re two supernatural entities just looking for the notorious Son of Satan.”

[guardian-of-soho]

An angel just slowly putting himself back together, straightening out his coat and his tie over his pounding heart, while the love of his life whose breath is still on his lips makes fun of him like he always does in these moments (to cover HIS pounding heart, but the angel doesn’t know this)

[drawlight]

god, they’re both so flustered in different ways.

[the-moon-loves-the-sea]

We only see Crowley mimic and mock Aziraphale four times. Every time he’s feeling vulnerable and exposed and unsure of his connection to him.

One is after Aziraphale refuses him the holy water and says he doesn’t need him (“Obviously,” Crowley snarks, speechless because it wasn’t obvious to him, not at all).

One is when they’ve just realized they’ve lost the Antichrist and Aziraphale won’t take partial responsibility for it, which means the world is about to end and Crowley is suddenly feeling he’s in this alone, trying to save them, and Aziraphale yells at him to drive safer, like that’s the real danger right then.

One is in Tadfield, right after Aziraphale feels the flashes of love, and then insinuates Crowley wouldn’t understand (“Oh lord, heal this bike,” Crowley intones: you’re so holier-than-thou, Aziraphale, you prig, why do I love you so deeply, so inescapably, why don’t you think I’m capable of it).

And one is here, when Aziraphale has just exposed the core of him with tenderness and praise and then stared right into his bluster without blinking—without fear—with something that looks like hunger.

[good-omens-meta-library]

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@ambular-d reply:  And then outside the bookshop, after Crowley has apologized for the stuff he said at the bandstand and Aziraphale refuses to run away to Alpha Centauri with him the second time, he's just too panicked and stressed out to muster up any mockery and resorts to flat-out calling him stupid.  Same dynamic, just manifesting a bit differently.

@krakensdottir reply:  Crowley is definitely way more snappish and likely to break out a mocking tone when he’s stressed. Still, I submit that making fun of each other - over minor things, not serious ones, and obviously only to a certain point - is a healthy part of their relationship, which they both indulge in. It’s just when it gets to the point of sneering/snarling with Crowley, you know he’s not feeling great.

@sarahthecoat reply:  although they are on an investigation, and have just found a Person of Interest,  Aziraphale barely, grudgingly, spares a glance at her, while his attention is all on crowley.

@fanishjuli reply: also, Aziraphale clearly knows Crowley is trying to recover as well, in his own way, and he’s giving him time too. look at the difference in the way Aziraphale looks at Crowley in the 2nd and 3rd gifs.

In the 2nd gif he’s still recovering himself and checking Crowley out, still very much thinking of what just happened or almost did (note the way his eyes look downwards from Crowley’s face in the last few seconds)

in the 3rd one instead we see him take one last fortifying breath and relax. look at the way his shoulders drop, he’s letting the matter go, locking it up in his brain and getting ready to move on. and look at the way he looks at Crowley now. he’s just waiting now, for Crowley to be done and ready to move on as well, letting him act out and waiting for him

@pendragony reply: Yes. Crowley’s been having a lovely time on their way in. He gets to go on quite a long field trip with his angel. There’s the moment when Aziraphale touches his arm before talking about the place feeling loved, which seems to arrest Crowley’s attention for a moment. He scares Ben Willbond with his snake head which he says was ‘fun’. But we know from the book that he doesn’t like shape shifting, and this was a moment when he was genuinely shocked. There’s the open flirtation of getting the paint off the coat with an action not unlike a blown kiss (and I suspect he’d already been feeling pleased with Aziraphale for being clever enough to think of coming to Tadfield in the first place), which leaves him with a dopy grin on his face for quite a long time while Aziraphale examines the gun. Then he has a good laugh at Aziraphale’s ‘lends weight to a moral argument’ nonsense, successfully covering his sappy mood with some heaven-trolling. Then he enjoys himself switching the guns, but he makes sure everyone will be safe, because, he says, “It wouldn’t be any fun otherwise.” But why does a demon from Hell want to avoid killing people, and keep things ‘fun’? Here he is, feeling cheerful and full of soft feelings towards his angel, when Aziraphale starts saying he’s nice. Even if you don’t buy into a praise kink HC for Crowley, we can agree that he’s worked up! I think he’s been coming dangerously close to revealing how he feels, and Aziraphale’s praise could tip him over the edge. He doesn’t let it, because that would endanger them both. He’s flustered and attempts to cover it up by getting angry. But Crowley’s actions have been consistently betraying something of what he really feels. There are all sorts of things he could do to shut Aziraphale up, but he physically presses their bodies and faces together! Just like everything else he’s done, it’s a show that is unintentionally revealing. And when Sister Mary surprises them, naming this moment for exactly what it is, Crowley stays pressed against Aziraphale, holding onto him, only moving to stop Sr Mary from running away. But in the bright, cold (revealing) lighting of this scene, have another look at those gifs and see how flushed Crowley’s lips are! Yes, he’s still flustered, sputtering and arguing while Aziraphale does up his jacket. I think Crowley’s lovelorn heart has been pounding away for some time now. He then barely keeps it together through the interview with Sr Mary and ends up walking off. To rearrange his pants? Who knows.

@guardian-of-soho​ reply: 

@geopsych​ oh YES. There’s embarrassment and bitterness and tenderness beneath it all. The whole extended sequence at the convent involves Crowley being annoyed and disbelieving about Aziraphale’s hypocrisy around guns, too. But also tender and indulgent about the stain on his coat. There’s just a lot of feelings going on at once.

[larygosomens]

[yuhengwanye]

@ileolai:# WHY DOES AZIRAPHALE LOOK LIKE HES BEEN FED THRU A WOODCHIPPER THO # LIKE HIS CLOTHES ARE JUST SHREDDED # IN CLOSER SHOTS YOU CAN SEE WHAT LOOKS LIKE HASTILY SEWN ON PATCHES # MEANWHILE CROWLEY IS READY TO POSE FOR AN EDITORIAL 

Due to a wildly misspent youth, I can actually answer this one! The answer is that they’re actually BOTH dressed for a Vogue editorial - the difference is that Crowley’s actually up-to-date and is wearing expensive clothing for the Graeco-Roman Mediterranean, while Aziraphale’s wearing expensive clothing for the nomadic Ancient Near East.

Aziraphale’s overcoat looks so ragged and patched because it’s lots of tanned skins sewn together - you can see it better HERE. He’s wearing the same linen clothing with golden beads at the neck that he wore in Mesopotamia three thousand years ago, but he’s added the skin coat and a turban. More skins = more animals. More linen = more work. Along with the gold, a very long tunic, a long coat (WITH SLEEVES), and a turban of a lot of material all indicate that Aziraphale is dressed very expensively, but very expensively for a Canaanite nomad in 3000 BCE. However, by 33 CE, the major indicator of wealth wasn’t the amount of material being used in clothing: it was the dye the material was coloured with. We think of black being a minimalist, ascetic colour, but right through to the Middle Ages, black was one of the most expensive clothing colours because of the sheer amount of dyes used to achieve it. Crowley’s veil and sash in particular are a deep black - that’s a large amount of dye that’s being used! (Crowley’s veil is also very sheer, meaning it’s either very fine linen or even silk, which was around in the West at this point but was desperately expensive) The difference between Crowley and Aziraphale in this scene is actually demonstrated by my very favourite Biblical mistranslation. Genesis 37:3 reads, “Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a ketonet passim.” This phrase is only used twice in the Tanakh, here, and to describe Tamar’s clothing in 2 Samuel 13:18-19. More importantly, this is the only use in the Torah. 

From context, we know that this item of clothing was special. In the English-speaking word, this is the “coat of many colours”, the “amazing technicolour dream coat”. But passim is more likely to mean “to the extremities” (i.e. hands or ankles), thus meaning a long coat, or a coat with sleeves. JUST LIKE WHAT AZIRAPHALE IS WEARING. 

When the Torah was being translated into Greek in Alexandria in about 250 BCE (the Nevi'im and the Ketuvim are translated later, often using whatever precedents for rare words were set by the translators of the Torah), the translator comes across this rare adjective, and thinks, “Fucked if I know what that means.” And they know from context that this coat is special and expensive, and they live in a world in which colour and dye are the main things that makes clothing special and expensive, so they write in poikilos (multi-coloured), and move on to the next sentence. 

tl;dr: Both Crowley and Aziraphale are well-dressed in the Crucifixion scene, Aziraphale’s just out of fashion by two or three millennia.

[argentconflagration]

I cannot believe that the costumers– knowing, surely, that only a miniscule fraction of the audience would be able to appreciate it– went through the trouble of ensuring that, true to form, Aziraphale was dressing wildly out of date.

[intersexaziraphale]

…Both of them are dressed in MENA typical clothing. Dye and embroidery were status symbols in the MENA. It’s more accurate to just say that Aziraphale is dressed according to older standards and Crowley is dressed to newer ones. While the dye thing could be influenced by Rome, we developed our own modes of fashion outside of it, and we used similar dyes (including expensive ones) because we live around the same ocean.

In fact Crowley is dressed really weird if they were going for a Roman look: his veil is smaller than typically seen and as such is draped more similar to a modern Iranian woman might drape it (I’ve seen women with this EXACT kind of scarf in modern Iranian photography) than a Roman woman. For a Roman her veil is basically a large cape/shawl that could theoretically be used as a blanket. He’s wearing a long garment that reaches his feet, which in Rome is an indication of high status and femininity. In southwest Asia and North Africa that’s just practical- even poor people typically have had a garment with long sleeves and long hem just for the sake of protection from the elements.

He’s also not wearing a Roman over dress, which would be very common for a wealthy woman because it indicated citizenship. Naturally if you subscribe to the theory that he’s meant to be Magdalena in this scene, that’s fine, but I’m pretty sure a lot of sex workers didn’t wear a palla. Technically nothing stopped them, but it was connected to ones “virtue” iirc, just like the over dress.

His garment is also very similar to his Mesopotamian one, and might be the same one or a copy meant to show time has passed and it’s been modified. That garment was also Black. Crowley always wears black as his main color in the series, which makes me heavily doubt the costumers thought about dye cost. If they did then he should also be wearing other colors, like purple (fancy person color but not actually restricted to royalty I think), possibly tapestry woven into medallions and trim and stitched onto his clothes, though that’s later Roman and specifically became its peak in beauty in the hands of Copts who made it their own thing. They could’ve also just had it be red or orange since he wears those accents more often, and it would make sense as yellowy colors were somewhat associated with West Asia in Rome and madder is common there too. There should be stripes, patterns, and/or embroidery- that definitely symbolized wealth if it was up to a certain quality, and did in the SWANA region for awhile but that is also due to Indian influence from imported fabrics.

TD:LR; Rome isn’t a big influence here and I hate that a certain breed of classicists have influenced people to mistake so many SWANA clothes as being Greco-Roman. Apologies FYI for not using Roman terms, I’m only familiar with their fashions in passing abd in relation to Egyptian fashion history, and I had to double check to make sure I wasn’t saying anything horribly inaccurate.

Edit: as an aside there are plenty of poor people today who wear black traditional clothes in the MENA. I know the industrial revolution probably impacted that but at first glance crowley looks like he’s lazy for not embroidering his clothes.

[good-omens-meta-library]

Curator’s note: I had seen the first meta essay in the chain above circulate widely (at the time), but not the second, and find it is a valuable meta contribution I wished to highlight.

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@intersexaziraphale tags:

@barlowstreet reply: “I mean, who puts THIS MUCH thought into weird stuff like making sure Crowley is up-to-date fancy and Aziraphale is out-of-style fancy for thousands of years ago???”

That would be Claire Anderson!

@masteroffoolhardyplans​ reply:  They knew full well they were wildly out of date for 1066 England, that one was because they thought it would be fun and recognisable rather than historically accurate (I'm paraphrasing Neil Gaiman here, I think someone asked about it on twitter)

[dubiousduckears-deactivated2024]

My dash is doing some quality things again.

@zirascrowley @good-omens-meta-library

[good-omens-meta-library]

I feel so honored 🥰

[losyanya]

This question has been repeatedly brought to the forefront of my mind by fanfics, a not-small number of which draw angst energy for C, A or both from this quote – as is most appropriate, clearly this is a sore spot for the characters, to put it mildly. But apart from what Crowley believes about himself – is he actually unforgivable and unforgiven?

What follows is some speculation and rules-lawyering in the best traditions of Aziraphale (meaning, I cannot prove anything, and I know that, but as long as there’s room for possibility…)

Let’s start from the opposite end – if Crowley were forgivable and forgiven, what would be different?

A common trope in fanfiction is the idea that angels can feel a connection to Her, while the demons had that connection severed and constantly feel the lack thereof. To my knowledge, this concept has no solid backing in canon. In fact, both the book and the show to go to lengths to minimize the differences between angels and demons. In the book Crowley describes angels and demons as just doing different jobs and occupying different spots in the great cosmic game, rather than being fundamentally dissimilar. In the show Aziraphale has no trouble possessing a human body even when told it is a demon ability, with implication of its uniqueness to demons. For centuries A&C have been able to substitute for each other as part of the Arrangement, exchange at the Globe suggesting that they are equally capable of performing blessings and temptations.

A noteworthy exception is Aziraphale’s ability to sense love – we have little information about this talent, although there was a fascinating take written on it. The only example we are given of this ability is limited to love on Earth, and is, in fact, geographical. Can Aziraphale sense Her love directly? It’s possible, but I don’t believe there is strong evidence in that direction.

Instead, regarding the ability to sense a connection to Her, I am drawn to this Crowley’s quote:

There’s just God. Moving in mysterious ways and NOT TALKING TO ANY OF US.

Note the “us”. This statement is rather equalizing. Crowley is stressing a lack of communication from Her to either of them, either demons or angels. While “talking” and “feeling a connection” are different things, Aziraphale makes no attempt to amend Crowley’s statement, and given the context (immediately after the bandstand and “holier than thou” and Aziraphale arguing that he juuuuuuust needs to reach the right people) I’m pretty certain he would if he could. If Aziraphale could point out a specific, perceivable difference between their levels of connection to Her and therefore likelihood of direct conversation, it would score him some strong points in this argument. He doesn’t.

Well, in the absence of a sense of connection to Her or lack thereof, and given that, at least in the modern times, clear announcements/messages do not appear to be Her style (in fact, talking to Aziraphale about his loss of the sword by the Eden wall may have been the last point of direct communication; although Aziraphale attributes the Flood to Her orders, there’s been doubt cast on the truth of this belief, and even that was a long time ago) – how would Crowley know if he were forgiven?

Keep reading

[good-omens-meta-library]

(Hello, friends, I’m hoping to be back from my hiatus. I acknowledge that this specific meta is of my own writing, but I rediscovered it with some surprise and figured it has gained some new relevance now that we know S2 is incoming)

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@ambular-d reply: *Raises hand*  I'm ever so guilty of that broken-connection-with-God trope. But regardless of whether you buy into that idea or not, I think I'm always going to stand by my favorite corollary to it:

Crowley is not, and never has been, unforgivable, because there was nothing for God to forgive.  The Fall (or at least, Crowley's Fall, specifically) wasn't a punishment inflicted on him by God because he disobeyed or offended Her.   Either it was a direct and natural consequence of his rejecting the Ineffable Plan, or it was part of the Plan from the beginning (or both.)

In order for his relationship with the Almighty to be repaired, he's the one who'd have to forgive Her.

The prerequisite to that, of course, would be that he actually wants to be reconciled with Her.

I consider his noticeably-not-bitter-sounding remark on the park bench toward the end about the Almighty planning it all from the start to be a hint that he might be moving in that direction, but still early and tentative, and not necessarily an indication that he'll actually get that far.

@contraststudies reply: FIRST OF ALL: I love this meta to bits @losyanya!!

I agree so hard that Crowley’s Fall cannot be undone. In that sense, yes, he is unforgivable by definition and by design. Neither does he seem to want to be reinstated to his former angelic state, in any case. It’s not the “being a demon” that bothers Crowley, it’s the fact that he was cut off from God. And if we go by the line in the show where Crowley says, “I only ever asked questions - that’s all it took to be a demon in the old days!” he was cut off from God at a moment where he was arguably trying to get closer to God, by trying to understand the way that the Plan worked.

My take on this is that Crowley Fell for doing something that might not have been that bad at all - he was in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong company (”oh, lookie here, it’s Lucifer and the guys!”), and the 6,000 years Crowley was on Earth is definitely part of the Ineffable Plan for him to not undo, but correct some of the damage that was done when he Fell.

In that sense, I would say that what happened to Crowley was that he was given a shot at redemption by being put on Earth with an angel. When he found out the angel gave away his flaming sword to the humans that were cast out of the Garden, he maybe realized that hey, free will is a thing. And all those 6,000 years were for him to eventually get to the point of ultimate resistance where he stopped time to convince the Antichrist that he could still change things.

All this to say that this was not absolution. God did not forgive Crowley, so to speak. To me, absolution speaks of something like being wiped clean, no more sins, and so on. But that’s not quite what Crowley gets. At the risk of being repetitive, he can’t be absolved. (”Unforgivable, that’s what I am.”) I’d argue not even God can undo his Fall. But Crowley had an opportunity to redeem himself - though he didn’t seem to be aware of it when it was happening, he managed it, and Aziraphale certainly played a big role in that.

So if we consider being a demon both a job and an identity, and the entire Ineffable Plan to date has been on the money where Agnes Nutter’s prophecies are concerned, what is Crowley now, exactly? I see a lot of fics tackling this from the perspective of the two of them being “freelancers” and I love that idea. But it leaves me wondering how Crowley is inherently changed in those 6,000 years. To quote Aziraphale, is he still a demon, then?

@thundercrackfic​ reply:  I’m gonna have to think on this for a while. I like it but I have to think through what the bit where Aziraphale senses love and Crowley doesn’t means. It’s immediately followed by Crowley sensing and responding to the humans’ desire for real guns. I’m very attached to my headcanon that Aziraphale senses virtues and Crowley senses sins. Got some thinking to do.

[bethagain]

Some thoughts after reading @fuckyeahisawthat’s excellent Good Omens meta on “Heaven or Love.”

It’s been bothering me a bit why, at the bandstand, Crowley is so insistent that Aziraphale be the one to kill Adam.

This is not like tricking Aziraphale into doing a minor temptation up in Edinburgh. This is serious. Crowley himself places value on Adam’s life: ”I’m not up for killing kids.”

I wasn’t sure if it was really in character, that scene. Up until then we’ve seen that one of Crowley’s dominant traits is being kind to Aziraphale, at least when it comes to things that matter.

Thinking about it more, though, I’m coming around to the idea that it’s exactly in character. 

Keep reading

[good-omens-meta-library]

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@fuckyeahisawthat reply: Oh! This is great! I hadn’t thought too much about that bit, but this makes total sense. Witness Crowley’s reaction when Satan shows up at the airfield and you can see why he’d be like, no, trust me, this one really has to be you. Of course just saying “hey I really need this from you because I’m scared of what my so-called side will do it me if it’s me” would probably have clarified things a lot, but that’s way too much emotional maturity for Crowley.The thing about those times when Crowley shows up and “saves” Aziraphale? They both know Aziraphale was perfectly capable of getting out of those situations on his own, the same way he was perfectly capable of cleaning his own jacket. He could have easily done all of the things Crowley does for him, but he hates conflict* and he especially hates violence. So Crowley shows up and does it for him, not because he has to, but because he likes it.And the thing that makes it a fun little dance, as far as Crowley is concerned, is that they both know it’s a charade. “OH NO, if only SOMEONE would show up and do this BAD THING for me la la la…” “Yes yes I’m the BAD ONE ooh here I go.” It’s an indulgence. It’s all a game, because the sides are bullshit, and after thousands of years of trading miracles and temptations the idea of either of them still being fundamentally good or bad is absurd, right? That’s how Crowley thinks about it, and I think that’s how he assumes Aziraphale thinks of it by this point in their lives as well.So imagine how painful and confusing it is when Aziraphale not only refuses to do this one thing that Crowley asks for, but starts talking like it’s not a game, like there really is some fundamental difference between them. Of course Crowley reacts with anger; that’s his default reaction to being hurt.(*Just how much does Aziraphale hate conflict? Just, like, sit down and imagine all the steps that lead to a powerful ethereal being getting locked up in the Bastille. Like, how many opportunities did he have to just make that…not happen? And yet he doesn’t deal with it until he’s facing the imminent threat of discorporation–and then he gets Crowley to help him. Like, that is some master-level conflict avoidance right there.)

@veronica-rich reply: I mean, I’m pretty sure Agnes’s predictions all came as straight dictation from God Herself; possibly God tried with other human vessels, but Agnes was the only one tuned in and willing to undergo the suffering to see through their writing and publication. So Madame Tracy was always set up to be the intervener who protected both angel and demon from stupidity and heartache over Adam. I mean, if you view the entire storyline of Good Omens as God’s fanfiction of reuniting Heaven and Hell, like I do. :-D