Discourse Walkthrough 2.0
In case you’re confused on the aro/ace discourse, as I know a lot of people are, here’s a basic idea of what’s going on! Let me just preface this by saying if you are still confused, please feel free to shoot me an ask and I will try to get things cleared up for you!
Why aren’t aromantic/asexual people lgbt?
The LGBT community was created to combat homophobia and transphobia. Obviously, to experience homophobia and transphobia you either have to experience sga (same/similar gender attraction) or not be cis. aro/ace people don’t automatically experience homophobia/transphobia, and if they do it is not because they are aro/ace.
On top of that, aro/ace people being in lgbt spaces often sucks up resources actual lgbt people need, so it really is harming us.
Isn’t SGA a term that comes from conversion therapy?
No, you’re thinking of “ssa” or “same sex attraction.” apart from being obviously more binary and therefore transphobic, “ssa” also has a lot of negative connotations for many people because of its association with conversion therapy.
“SGA” is similar to “SGL” or “same gender loving,” an AAVE term coined by Cleo Manago . As it is a black term, “SGL” shouldn’t be used by non-black lgbp people, but SGA has no background in conversion therapy, and is also ok for non-black people to use!
“SGA” can also stand for “same/SIMILAR gender attraction,” to encompass non-binary people who feel they can’t be attracted to the “same gender.” SGA encompasses gay, lesbian, bi, and pan people, it doesn’t matter how strongly you identify your same gender attraction, you are still allowed to use the term!
What is MGA?
MGA is “multiple gender attraction,” which encompasses bi/pan/ply/etc people!
What resources are you talking about?
Scholarships, funds, beds at homeless shelters, lgbt suicide hotlines, pride clubs and other safe spaces with limited space, food that’s handed out at lgbt centers and clubs, et cetera.
This is NOT to say that aro/ace people in need of scholarships, funds, homeless shelters, suicide hotlines, free food, etc, do not deserve these resources but simply that if these resources are SPECIFICALLY for lgbt people, non lgbt aro-ace people have many other places to access these needs without using an lgbt service to come by them.
But some aro/ace people are trans/bi/pan/lesbians!
You’re right! Those people ARE lgbt, but it is not because they are aro/ace. It would be because they are trans/bi/pan/etc.
But the acronym is LGBTQIA!
The full acronym is ‘LGBT.’ Some people do add the “+” to be inclusive of nonbinary people who don’t identify as trans, along with pan/ply people who don’t want to be included under the “B.” But the “QIA” is not necessary.
-”Q” stands for “Queer” which is a slur that not everyone has reclaimed. While it is true that a lot of people DO identify themselves as queer, it is still potentially harmful to include it in the acronym as many lgbt people still rightfully see it as a harmful slur associated with violence.
-note: ”Q” can also stand for questioning, so if the “q” is included in the acronym with that meaning, that’s fine as it doesn’t have negative connotation!
-”I” stands for “Intersex,” and many intersex people have come forward saying that they do not automatically consider themselves lgbt for being intersex. Some intersex people identify as cis, and it is harmful to force all intersex people to identify as lgbt. intersex people can choose to include themselves in the community on a case-by-case basis, but it is harmful to include it in the acronym, as it makes it hard for intersex people to be taken seriously when they identify as cis.
The A originally stood for ally, to allow closeted people access to lgbt resources. It was not always actually included in the acronym, but it was generally understood that you could identify yourself as an ally and participate in community events without outing yourself.
The “A is for asexual” movement was started in the early 2000′s by a cishet man named David Jay. Jay is openly homophobic, (just one instance of this is his pride at being able to work “fag” into the lgbt acronym) and most of us find it deeply offensive that a cishet man forced us to include more cishets into a community that was specifically designed to be safe from cishets.
LGBT is for all identities that differ from heteronormativity!
This is not true. If LGBT accepted all identities that were seen as “other” by society, we would be supporting kinksters, pedophiles, rapists, etc.This is not to say that aro/ace people are “categorized” with these people, (not at all,) but that the current LOGIC used to put aro/ace people in lgbt spaces, “lgbt is for anyone who experiences sexual attraction differently than the rest of society!!” is so vague and riddled with problematic themes that it allows rapists and pedophiles to feasibly call themselves lgbt.
Along with that, cishet aces do not differ from heteronormativity, they actively contribute to it. Het people don’t suffer from heteronormativity.
But ace/aro people are still queer!
Queer is a slur that was used against sga/mga (same/similar gender attraction and multiple gender attraction) people and trans people. Many people have personally reclaimed it and started identifying as queer, but ace/aro people have no claim to the word.
You cannot reclaim a slur if it was never taken from you and used against you violently in the first place.
But “straight” means heterosexual AND heteroromantic! Cishet aros/aces aren’t straight!
“straight” means you are exclusively attracted to the opposite binary gender, (i.e. a binary girl being exclusively attracted to binary boys, and vice versa.) It doesn’t matter if this is sexual attraction, romantic attraction, or both. Heteroromantic asexual people are straight, and heterosexual aromantic people are straight.
If you call bi aces bi, and ace lesbians lesbians, you can call straight aces straight.
ace people can’t be cishet, because they are ace.
Cisgender heteroromantic asexual. Cishet.
But ace people are just as oppressed as other LGBT identities!
Systematic oppression, or institutional oppression, is defined as “the systematic mistreatment of people within a social identity group, supported and enforced by the society and its institutions, solely based on the person’s membership in the social identity group.” Asexual people do not face laws, ideology, or practices that are “supported by society and its institutions.” An example of this would be the fact that 45 states still legally allow conversion therapy to be used on lgbt minors, or the fact that there are still at least 77 countries where ‘homosexuality’ is illegal, and sometimes even punishable by death.
Asexual people do not face oppression like this-at least not because they are ace. Asexual people are not kicked out of their homes for not experiencing sexual attraction, they are not at risk of being fired from their jobs when they tell their boss that they don’t have sex with their partner. There are not asexual youth who are homeless because they identify as ace. There are not hate crimes against ace people that result in 49 lost lives. Ace people are not murdered for being ace.
So yes, being ace may increase your risk of being a victim of a sexual assault crime. Yes, not everyone knows what “asexuality means.” But a lack of understanding and a lack of representation does not make you oppressed, and the fact that so many people realize this and still compare “aphobia” to homophobia is sickening.
The term “Aphobia” suggests that again, ace people are oppressed. As outlined above, you are not systematically oppressed for being ace.
Ace people face corrective rape!
First of all, “corrective rape” is a term lesbians coined to describe their experiences with being raped to “fix” them. Ace people should not be using this term.
secondly, people rape for a lot of reasons. One psychologist says that “there’s a wide variety of reasons that sex offenders choose victims. They can range in age from very young to old. There may perhaps be a focus on a particular eye color or hair color or body type.”
Sorority girls are at higher risk of sexual assault, people with numerous sexual partners are at higher risk of being raped.Inebriated women are at higher risk.
My point is that just because you are of a group of people with a characteristic or identity that puts you at higher risk of sexual assault doesn’t mean you’re oppressed. Redheads who may be targeted for their hair color aren’t called “oppressed.” Sorority girls don’t have “sorority girls and allies alliance.” Rapists are rapists, and will look for any excuse to take advantage of someone. This does not make an asexual survivor of rape any less valid, it doesn’t make their story any less horrifying and disgusting. It just means that facing a higher risk of sexual assault doesn’t automatically make you oppressed.
Telling ace people they aren’t lgbt is gatekeeping.
Gatekeeping is a term that trans women used to describe being cut off from healthcare. To use it in this context is gross. Telling straight cis people that they aren’t welcome in safe spaces from straight cis people isn’t gatekeeping, as we are only prioritizing the well-being and safety of lgbt people by doing it!
This is just recycled biphobia!
Biphobia is a legitimate issue within the lgbt community, to compare bi people to cishet aces is super offensive to bi people because we actually face oppression from straight people and discrimination within the lgbt community, we would really appreciate not being used as a token in your argument as most of us disagree with you.
But bisexual heteroromantic people are still bi! homosexual heteroromantic people are still gay! Why are heteroromantic ace people straight?
The issue here is that the split attraction model, when used on non a-spec (aromantic and asexual spectrum) identities, is just based in internalized homophobia and compulsory heterosexuality.
Think of it this way-a bisexual woman who only dates men is clearly suffering from internalized biphobia, I don’t know any other way to explain this other than asking you to think about this hypothetical women, who says things like “i’ll have sex with lgb women, but i won’t date them.”
point being, I’m not going to say these people are straight, gay, or anything because they clearly need to take a look at their own identities and figure out why they are identifying using the split attraction model. This is not a good argument because most of us strongly disagree with the way the split attraction model is used.
aro/ace people are valid, stop telling us we aren’t.
Sure, you’re valid. Nobody is saying you aren’t-in fact i don’t think I’ve seen one person say aro/ace people aren’t real or something.
“you aren’t lgbt” =/= “you aren’t valid.“
aro/ace people deserve a community!
Sure! the lgbt community just isn’t the right one. This community was created out of hard work, if you want a community to talk about your experiences, to specifically help aro/ace people, you have to create one. “you aren’t lgbt” =/= “you aren’t valid.”
tl;dr aro/ace people are valid, but you aren’t queer and you aren’t lgbt by virtue of being aro/ace.
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