What would you say to someone who says the slaying of Ymir was a terribly evil thing to do? Ymir was a being in his own right, strange and wonderful. I am not sure if I have the full story, but I read Odin and his brothers were just mad that there were more Jotun than Aesir. Hardly a reason to kill the grandfather of all.
(2/2)P.S. I know Ymir and the story of his death are in the realm of myth and may not be literally true, but I write about myths as if the story actually happened. Also, the story of Ymir may be a way of telling how one religion (Odin’s) usurped an earlier religion.)
Hello lightfromlight and thank you for the question. I must apologise for the delay in answering as my messages have become very backlogged and it is taking me some time to work through them.
There are several factors that contribute to my opinion on this matter. As you mention, it has been theorised that the murder of Ymir by Odin, Vilje and Ve (it was all three brothers, not solely Odin) was an analogy of one religion usurping another. I should note that nowhere is it stated that the death of Ymir was due to the brothers being mad. It is said that many generation of Jotner were birthed from Ymir and that they killed Ymir so that they could be the rulers over all things. In addition, in the Prose Edda, Ymir is simply the first being to be exposed from the ice, followed by Buri (who fathered the three brother independently of Ymir’s line). It is also stated in Prose Edda that Ymir and all of his descendants were evil - a possible indication of why the brothers killed him.
We must understand that during the Viking Age, the tribal mentality (where the harsh reality existed that sometimes one must kill one’s enemies to survive) and different cultural significance of murder/sacrifice make our modern concepts of “evil” to be inadequate when judging such an act as Ymir’s death. To kill any creature (even as a man may kill a boar/cow/chicken/etc…) could be considered “evil” in today’s terms, yet it was necessary to ensure survival and as long as the animal was not wasted (and all parts were used and held as valuable) then the loss of life was not in vain. So we may find great value in that death.
My final point, acknowledging what you say about not being literally true, is that it has been theorised (through comparative themes in other Proto-Indo-European mythology) that such dismemberment represents the recycling of material in the creation of the world. Scholars J.P. Mallory and Douglas Adams cited Ymir as a prime example of that belief. They state:
“The [Proto-Indo-European] cosmogonic myth is centered on the dismemberment of a divine being and the creation of the universe out of its various elements…in both cosmogonic myth and the foundation element of it, one of the central aspects is the notion of sacrifice (of a brother, giant, bovine, etc.). The relationship between sacrifice and cosmogony was not solely that of a primordial event but the entire act of sacrifice among the Indo-Europeans might be seen as a re-creation of the universe where elements were being continuously recycled.”
I am left with the opinion that the killing of Ymir was a necessary action that had to be taken by the three brothers to create the world and ensure that it was a place where other beings could flourish. Often harsh actions must be taken for the greater good. As the saying goes, “it’s a dirty job but someone has to do it”. It is a thematic motif that is recurrent in Norse Mythology. There are many instances of dubious behaviour that is taken to ensure a better result.
I hope that helps.
Thank you so much for this answer. There is a lot I could say, but I don’t want to appear to be arguing. I had never thought of the other Indo-European myths where sons emasculated and killed their fathers in the context of Odin, Vili and Ve and Ymir.
You are most welcome and I would love to hear your opinions! I never see disagreement as “arguing”. I am pleased to have provided some food for thought. Å&F
Well, I read later, after I asked my question of you, that Odin and his brothers considered Ymir to be evil. So you have to eliminate evil where you can. Plus, the Aesir created the earth and seas from Ymir and his blood, so that was good.
But we know from modern propaganda and history texts that regimes that want to engage in aggression always depict “the enemy” as evil. The Catholic Church did the same thing to earlier, native gods when the Church started muscling in on various regions–depicted them as demonic and evil. The giants of Norse myth are considered the forces of evil, and the gods are the forces of good. As usual, the earlier regime is cast as villainous. (Likewise the Titans and Olympians in ancient Greece, as you pointed out.)
I have given some thought to myths from around the world that say the gods and various beings did deicide and homicide, war, rape and other treachery. Should we excuse these activities because the gods were the ones doing them? But this question seems to be moot here because, as you pointed out, Ymir was evil, though how his evil manifested is not told in the myths as far as I could determine. What were the giants’ crimes?
Thanks again,
Mark
I agree wholeheartedly that many regimes have painted their predecessors as “evil” in an attempt to justify their actions. History they say is written by the victor! Ironically, it was the Norse deities who were demonised by the Christian church during the conversion.
I would say it is, at best, an oversimplification to suggest Jotner as “evil”. At worst, it is plain wrong. The Jotner and gods of Norse Mythology have an incredibly nuanced and complex relationship. One popular theory (one to which I subscribe) is that Jotner are representative of natural forces - raw, hostile at times and unbridled, yet necessary and sometimes useful/valuable. I’ve written about this before now here.
I cannot comment on other mythologies that are not my specialist area but as far as Norse Mythology is concerned, the deities are often viewed as reflections of the human condition and so they naturally express all aspects of our existence, including the negative ones. I think as humans, even today, we have excused far more heinous crimes than even depicted in the Norse myths. Are we really so different? Are the actions of the gods simply a mirror of our own actions?
Difficult questions to answer but things are rarely, if ever, “black and white” when considering the character and actions of beings in the historic texts.
Thank you for the interesting discussion.
Til års og fred, Jon
