ppl reading the manga and making analysis just to come with this "unrequited love" bullshit
since im tired of seeing this on tumblr, let's make it clear that Hashirama loved madara more than tobirama or the village
First of all, Hashirama was the one who made madara his universe, because madara was the first person ever to have the same ideals of peace he had, Hashirama even felt blessed to get to know madara
He was the one crying for madara not giving up on peace and the village, even though in his mind madara had erased him. If it was an unrequited love, Hashirama would never yearn like he did with madara
"He decided to completely erase me, who had been his friendâ this phrase show us how for hashirama's point of view he was the one being unrequited
The foundation of Konoha is the ultimate proof of their reciprocal love
In the same way madara sacrifices his own feelings and his brother's death to make Hashirama's dream become true, Hashirama also show his absolute love for Madara in this scene
As we saw before, Hashirama felt blessed for getting to know madara (in the raw translation he refers to Madara as a "Divine Revelation") this implies he saw Madara as something precious
When Tobirama is about to kill Madara, Hashirama shows no hesitation to show his fury towards his own brother over someone in that in his mind had erased him years ago
So, tell me, if Hashirama didn't love Madara, why would he show threatening eyes to his own brother over an uchiha that "had erased him" over years?
"but it's because he wanted peace". That's really not it. If Hashirama wanted he could just accept Madara's defeat, since Madara himself was willing to Hashirama to kill him. Hashirama doesn't justify his action by "that's not the way peace is achieved", he justifies it by making madara the topic
"If we kill you, the head... the young uchiha that hold you dear will go on a rampage" when madara admits the clan is not so close to him like it used to be, Hashirama still insists on the idea that there will always be someone (âŠ) to love and admire madara
"Can't we settle it like we used to? Just the two of us..." This phrase shows us again that Hashirama has naver stopped yearning for Madara, he's still absorbed in his universe he made where Madara is by his side
"Thank you, Madara. Indeed, you're a heartkinded person"
The topic for Hashirama in that moment was not the peace or the war, but madaras life. Of course he cares about his brother too, and in that moments is where he understand how self giving madara was
When hashirama is about to kill himself, he made his lasts words to be dedicated to ordering his clan to not kill madara. He wanted madara unharmed, because deeply he sees madara as someone who is precious to him, because he was the first person who was the same as him one time
This intrinsic hashiramas feeling of seeing madara as something precious is a parallel of a concept since the Arc of Waves, where haku constantly speaks to naruto of zabuza as someone precious to him to the point Haku kills himself for Zabuza's life
This Hakus feeling towards zabuza later is used as a parallel for Naruto's feelings towards Sasuke.
Later on, this same parallel is used with Obitos feelings towards Rin. And finally, even though Hashirama doesn't explicitly say the word precious, the way he acts towards madara is the same, as someone special who must stay unharmed, just like Obito did with Rin
Madara didn't become "one of many" in hashirama's heart. Hashirama himself proves this in the manga
Madara will never be "one of many". He will always the "the one".
âą The one who chose the names village (because Hashirama requested it)
âą The one that would be the hokage if it only depended on Hashirama's will
âą The one who would be the first to get his face engraved on that stone
âą The one who still got a statue even though never having been the hokage
Why's that? It's not exactly because he wants madara as a leader, but because he wants madara in the village with him. As a hokage, madara would have to stay in the village most of the time
Instead of emphasizing Madara's characteristics as a leader, he minimized Izuna's death. Because he wants madara to overcome his brother death, to not nurture negative feelings against the village so he can stay in the village
So yeah madara is definitely not "one in many". Hashirama sees Madara as a special person just like Madara sees Hashirama as a special person
And yes, Hashirama did neglect madara while he was in the village. Hashirama wasn't caring about how madara was feeling about the rest of the village, he only cared about the fact that madara was in the village. But this really doesn't mean that Hashirama didn't love madara lol actually this just shows how egoistical Hashirama's love was, unlike madara's love that was self giving
âBut Hashirama killed madaraâ
Because madara literally forced it. If Hashirama didnât kill him, madara would never stop the fight, because âto be killedâ was literally a part of the Tsukyomi plan.
Why he didnât chase for Madara like Naruto chased after sasuke? Not to mention the fact that it was a completely different scenario, Hashirama is a completely different person from Naruto. Since the beginning of the flashback, itâs shown to us that Hashirama would bear with Madaraâs decisions, even though he completely disagreed with them
And killing madara is probably Hashiramaâs biggest regret in life.
Not only because he explicitly says âmaybe madara was right about everythingâ but also because he managed to die in his mid 40s (young age) despite being the âgod of shinobiâ and had survived after fighting with madara for hours
why did he die some couple of years after âkillingâ madara, despite being the strongest shinobi alive?
I think we all know the answer right
The infinite Tsukyomi is not a "notice me, Hashirama" but a way he found to answer his grief for everything he lost in the shinobi world
After losting his father, mother and all his siblings; getting ostracized by his own clan and having Hashirama as his last relationship standing in that village, Madara realized that the Shinobi world Hashirama created (and he contributed to it) was not worth living in. He didn't want people living that fraud anymore
So, no, for Hashirama it was not just a "strong relationship". His love for Madara was also an obsession, but manifested in a different way
and yes it makes everything more sad because he had to kill the person he most loved in life
Yet another one of these idiotic posts; yet another day in this trashy fandomâs saga to showcase to us all their abysmal reading comprehension and their unshakable adoration for turbo-nazis.Â
1: Tobirama had no legal right to present hurdles for the Uchiha who preferred their clan over the village. He shouldâve understood that before he signed the treaty. Konoha politics arenât some unchangeable gospel created by God. Laws are subject to change with the time, go through necessary amendments, and none were made by Tobirama who saw it fit to create this problem all by himself. What Tobirama sees and what is isnât some sort of de facto statement that canât be challenged. This is the basics of understanding, you know, unreliable narrators which this fandom canât grasp to save its life. In short, Tobiramaâs opinions arenât immutable facts. To even suggest this is fucking asinine.Â
The circumstances in the warring era were the same for all warning clans. Tobirama and his band of Senju thugs arenât special snowflakes who went through some unique tragedies unknown to warriors. People lost their brothers all the timeâso did Madara. Tobiramaâs fear is understandable as it arose from the antagonism both clans shared. Tobirama creating policies that illustrate his bias are also understandable. The fandom gurgling his balls to agree with all this as if heâs some sort of "voice of rationality" that canât be challenged isnât understandable. These three arguments can be right at the same time, especially when he created policies out of fear and hatred, which makes him far more susceptible to the âcurse of hatredâ than anyone else. The very same policies that engendered corruption in the entire shinobi realm.Â
You can only stretch so much of the goodwill here to give this particular character a pass, when all evidence is magnificently stacked against him. Even Orochimaru called him out. The dudeâs jutsus purely exist to sow conflict and engage in deplorable warfare that utilises shambling corpses that require sacrifices. (He never invented a single jutsu to ever deescalate the violence; quite the opposite, all his jutsus exist to magnify them, only now, with his clan and its sympathisers at the helm of this war-machine; before that, they could be subjected to it.) That makes him a seasoned necromancer, so the entire idea of some âbenign warrior that saw right through Uchiha bullshit to become the sole voice of reasonâ is just your slimy masturbation talking. None of this is canon. Write your ânuanceâ with a clean hand next time.
2: All of this is just pointless speculation backed by nothing. He is racist as he, by your own admission, was prejudiced, which was born of fear. You can dress up this plain and simple aspect as âcautionâ, but it doesnât change a thing that he created socio-political disparity of his own freewill, when he couldâve just refused to make an alliance with the Uchiha and established his own village. Going behind the back of the other founding party and not abiding by the treatyâs precepts makes him a crooked character thatâs untrustworthy in every definition of the word. That makes him racist by definition as, when you create an unevenness in this manner via your personal fears, especially when you hold a position of great power, you create circumstances for greater prejudices to take root and spiral out of control. This is the basics of politics and the bedrock of all fascist regimes, so save it with your faux-intellectualism (âI know all the nuances!â) thatâs the perfect case-in-point of people that talk big but have no knowledge on basic political theory.Â
Furthermore, Chapters 670, 671, & 681 have zero mentions of the term Curse of Hatred. Neither Hagoromo nor Zetsu even mention, imply, or reference it. I canât believe this poster literally lied through her teeth to push forward this wankery. Itâs hilarious. What Hagoromo stated is that the older brother lashed out because he chose the younger one as his heir. Later, he clearly states that descendants of both his sons quarrelled and the Bijuu, which he left for peace, are only being weaponized by the villages; so his thinking was naive. I donât ever remember the Uchiha weaponizing the Bijuu as WMDs for village use; oh wait, that was all Tobirama, who, with his brother, kick-started an arms-race backed by technocratic fascists who created nothing but chaos in the long run. All the subsequent wars can be rightly placed at their feet for their abysmal policy-making and hyper-militarism by creating a centralised system of war machine. How good is your ânuanceâ till now?Â
Also, an older son lashing out at the father for choosing the younger one is curse of hatred now? Are you lot new to how property is transferred in Confucian system, which later became the basis for law in the Edo Period? I get it that you lot are very culturally illiterate but this isâŠlaughable as in Japan, to this day, all property, every single penny, goes to the oldest son; and nothing is given to any other children, sons or otherwise. If thereâs no son and only one daughter, then the property is transferred to the son-in-law. Doing what Hagoromo did was a sign of extreme disrespect. This isnât curse of hatred; itâs just a different culture reflected in the manga written by, here it comes, a Japanese man. What a shocker that heâd inject his own culture into the manga he wrote? What a reality-defying discovery! Whoâs ever heard of anyone doing thatâand from another culture? By God!
Last but not least, Zetsu all but confirmed that all the incarnations did was battle each other to attain the Rinnegan. It was never an âUchiha specificâ thing. So why on earth is Tobiramaâs opinion given any preference over the word of someone whoâs older than Hagoromo? Â
3: The Uchiha were systematically shut out from all walks of life save the police and this is confirmed by Tobirama himself. This is confirmed by Orochimaru, as well. And they were systematically isolated as Tobirama was the one who created this system in the first place; he made all the choices, so all the fallout, naturally, is a consequence of his poor decision-making. You donât understand how words work? And who the fuck cares about his âtraumaâ in this regard? Howâs this relevant? Are you trying to blunt the damning evidence against this incompetent fool?Â
The police leadership was given over to them to isolate them. Tobirama admitted that, too. Simply because he wrapped that up in the words you seem to buy doesnât mean we have to; furthermore, you gotta love the fact how âarrest him without warrantâ is highlighted to purposefully leave out âwe canâtâ, to show that the Uchiha are this âbig badâ clan that was corrupt, when nothing here proves that. Itâs perfectly reasonable for a military force to have its own set of laws; and frankly, this doesnât go in Tobiramaâs favour as this excludes so much of the military force from scrutiny, given that not only shinobi move in and out of Anbu but they also do the Hokageâs bidding; but, apparently, he wasnât prejudiced to create a law that placed an entire sector of military, the very sector he used to maintain surveillance on the Uchiha, above the law. Thatâs literally prejudice! Are you people high?Â
The democratic part thatâs hidden in the tags is fucking hilarious when he himself was appointed by his brother and then he appointed Hiruzen without voting; who in turn appointed Minato; and then when he died, he appointed himself as the Hokage again; Tsunade was also chosen without any voting. All of this system was created by Tobirama. Funny, how when Hashirama wanted to choose Madara, he cried foul but, from that point onwards, democracy wasnât ever utilised but instead completely removed from the political system. This is so laughable!
That âbootlickerâ part is also completely antithetical to what this moron herself has typed out. He demands absolute obedience and segregates the clan in the name of caution and hyper-militarises this whole thing via centralised military and WMD usage; and to top it off, dissidence is punishable by law in the system he createdâto the point that death squads are there to hunt the "uppity crowd" down. Please, do tell, what else does it mean, then? This poor, misunderstood husbando!
Danzo was his student since his Genin days; so was Hiruzen. Then they both became a part of his squad; but, you see, they werenât taught anything by him. Nothing at all; and can you, for the love of Allah, stop misusing the term prejudice and open a fucking dictionary? This is embarrassing; and thereâs no proof in the manga that the Uchiha were manipulated into coup by Danzoâor Obito of all the people.Â
Gods, you people are stupid and have very poor comprehension skills. I get it, you canât stop being this paper-thin characterâs throat-goat, but show some restraint. Itâs not cute anymore. Also, whilst Iâm at it, and to drive the point home, whatâs this insistence on assimilation? Why should the Uchiha Clan, or any other clan, assimilate into a system thatâs hostile to their culture? Complete assimilation that comes at the expense of culture is cultural genocide. Are you A-OK with that now as long as you can shine this pathetic fuck's balls?
And since you people get so offended by the moniker âboot-lickerâ, okay, letâs call it the âmutt syndromeâ, then? Is that appropriate? The dude fixed a bulb and then expected the whole world to turn around it, and Tobirama wankers clock double-shifts and struggle real fucking hard to make this work. This isnât how you create lasting and peaceful political infrastructures. Yes, itâs a structure, but not a good one. Yes, yes, I know, Itachi that right-wing reddit libertarian (on his best day) is the only good Uchiha, but letâs stop pretending that this guy fixed anything. He basically created "patreon for serial killers" and gave himself a heavy pat, and then his fanboys went down on their knees to worship his cock. (Not to mention this is the very same guy who allowed the Hyuga to become a part of the village on the condition that they can practise slavery as long as theyâd stay a part of it; how else do you think that they can openly practise slavery? They had this guy's blessing; they, by law, can practise it.)
Not to mention his tendency for quantifying peopleâwhat does one do? Who does what? People can ask why and not agree with that quantification, so to quell that, you negotiate. Picking up spaces for people and preventing them from moving from these spaces is the very definition of discrimination. Wouldnât you call a profession sexist if it barred a particular gender from entry? Then why's it so hard for you to get his? The need to put the Uchiha in "their place"...is discrimination. Why would you do that if you werenât afraid of losing the power? Pulling aspects out selectively doesnât do you any good. Questioning the way the power works and acting against it is everyoneâs fundamental right. If you think that this is a dictatorship or whatever, then why does it bother you why people seek to deconstruct it? Take that greasy, pube riddled thong of righteousness out from between your lumpy arse. This isnât an argument you can defend as itâs an argument based on might is right.
Whereâs the negotiation between what Tobirama imposed and how the clan took it? Itâs one-sided, so that, by definition, leaves room for future upheaval as the power imbalance allows it to come about. This isnât complicated. Youâre just not capable of basic contextualization.Â
Taking away someone's entire sources of support and then expecting that person to abide is lunacy. Using the language of slavery and oppression in his sermons whilst his fangirls gurgle his entire ballsack-set? How can anyone side with this characterâŠyouâd have to be an athletic piece of shit to back any of his mantra. Itâs just fascist.Â
And challenge the law the right way? Once a system becomes a part of legislation, law, it becomes impossible to change it. Years. And many people that live under boot canât afford that sort of time, so all they can do is introduce a shock into the system, and revolution is that system shock.Â
This system was deliberately exported out to make the world a domain in which theyâd have control, hence, the creation of WMD bartering. And this is supposed to be the âmoral lifeâ for a Shinobi. I get that the people whoâd drunk this kool-aid, choked on it, and reached Shinobi Nirvana defend it as if their lives depend on it, because they do as they cut their pay-checks, but why do you? Are you fictional? A product of the Shinobi world? Whatâs so appealing about any of it? About this never-ending apparatus of warfare?
No one belongs to the past, and the Senju arenât the future. Itâs hilarious how itâs seen this way, straight up a projection of the western âfrom savagery to the dawn of the civilised manâ in regard to the establishment of Leaf from the fandom. Who controls whom, apparently, is seen as a part of the civilised man. A masculine power-fantasy a lot of the Sakura Wankers adore, as well. This is so...textbook patriarchal that I doubt any one of you cunts have read a word of it as you wouldnât gloss this over with slime of feminism.Â
People can challenge these paradigms and their place in them, obliterate them to establish equity. What sort of argument exists against it thatâs even remotely rational? Itâs just a hysterical unleashing of as to who âdeserved betterâ and a stinky pall of morality over it. This is a supremacist view at the most fundamental level, and itâs absurd that people would find it to be any other way.Â
What does it mean to have an equal system? It means a system without hierarchies. The desire for status is the desire for stature, and that meansâŠthereâs nothing leftist about your meta. Save it. All I can say is that Tobirama defenders (and he got the most votes from EU, very unsurprisingly, enough to catapult him to the first spot there), like the Sakura wankers, have got a persecution fetish thatâs born from a culture with a christian framework. No wonder they keep shitting their beds about âredemptionsâ. Thatâs all, and itâs laughable, especially when the character they seek to defend has less characterization than about 5-ish panels, and Iâm being very charitable here. Then why don't you ask yourself: who do you defend this character so vehementlyâwhy this specific characterâespecially when you regurgitate fascist talking-points out of your pocket?
Both Senju and Uchihas were elite clans, and that is shown on their clothes. The Senju wore the hakama, the Uchihas a furisode.
The hakama the Senjus wear
A furisode worn by a young woman; Madara and Izuna with their combat attire
The furisode is a kimono with long sleeves, wore mostly by young unmarried woman from upper class families.
The hakama was traditionaly only wore by samurais.
So no, the Uchihas weren't struggling or anything, their real struggle came after Konoha with the segregation and their genocide. But it was an elite clan, both economically and in warfare.
The Uchihas abandoned Madara most likely because he abandoned the battlefield when Izuna was fatally wounded. But why would he do that?
Because it was already stablished that he puts Izuna above anything and anyone.
PS: More of Madara wearing a furisode in the VOTE statues
i will never get over the fact of how chocked i was when i discovered how big the hashimito/madatobi agenda is here on tumblr. like why would you ship a gay man with a lesbian and make a pretty uke top an ugly bastard
