A guide to Robin Finck in Guns n' Roses for people who can't stand Axl Rose
I've spent months reading, watching and listening to all things regarding Robin's time in Guns so you don't have to.
*extremely long post*
L to R: Chris Pitman, Bryan "Brain" Mantia, Robin Finck, Tommy Stinson, Dizzy Reed, Richard Fortus and Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal. At Download Festival, June 11, 2006.
From Cirque to Guns
In the beginning of 1997 Cirque du Soleil was touring Los Angeles and Axl Rose went to see the show. Matt Sorum (GnR's drummer until then) pointed out to Axl that 'Robin from Nine Inch Nails' was playing the guitar.
"I told Axl to see him and he said, 'That's our guitar player,' I said, 'Bring in Robin to play alongside Slash', but Axl said, 'I want him to play lead.'" - Matt Sorum, 1999.
Robin got a call from Axl and then he started to jam with the band (already without Slash) every Monday, his day off (circus' dark day). In April, Chris Vrenna also joined for a few sessions before he split to focus on his Tweaker project, and Robin brought Billy Howerdel (former guitar technician for NIN) to help him program his sounds, but wound up staying for two and a half years with them.
In June, Robin quit the circus and joined the band.
2 years contract (August 1997 to August 1999)
Over the year of 1998, the band took shape, consisting of Robin and Paul Huge Tobias on the guitar, Tommy Stinson on bass guitar, Dizzy Reed on keys and percussion, Josh Freese on drums and Chris Pitman helping them with writing and engineering. Although Axl was contributing with ideas, he wasn't laying many vocal tracks at that time, as he was allegedly suffering with writer's block.
They wrote at least half of the Chinese Democracy album along with other still unreleased songs and many instrumentals in this period, including parts/ideas Robin had previously come up with during his circus days. Some sources had said they were working on 35 tracks.
Robin and Josh Freese in 1998 (from Josh's Instagram)
They also re-recorded Appetite for Destruction, which was never released but a segment of Sweet Child o'Mine was included in the closing credits of 1999's Big Daddy movie. Axl's intention was to use the entire song, but Slash and Duff didn't allow it, so they made a hybrid of the old version with their new one. You can listen to their segment starting at 2'58, with the second part of the main solo and the last one played by Robin:
It was rumored that Robin recorded an uncredited overdub of backing vocals for the track Mr. Brownstone in the Live Era '87-'93 compilation album. You can listen to it below, around 1'25 min.
Just in time for NIN's Fragility tour v1.0, his contract came to an end in August and soon he went to Bahamas with Nine Inch Nails to begin with their tour rehearsals.
Atlas Shrugged
"I have respect for Axl Rose, I wish him all the success that he deserves and if his album sounds a little industrial, I will take it like a compliment... On the other hand, when we played MTV awards, he made pass a press release announcing that it would cut of his disc all the parts of guitars played by Robin Finck and I find that a little ridiculous, it is a whim of star." - Trent Reznor, 1999.
"And they just said, 'Come over and do some stuff.' It's a long story to be honest and I won't bore you with all the details, but Axl was feeling that he was in a difficult place because the guitarist that he'd been working with on this new album had sort of replaced Slash, because they fell out, sadly. [...] The guitarist that had done most of the tracks had departed and Axl had a real emotional attachment to what he'd done, and yet he didn't want him on the album - and I hope I'm not saying too much here - he didn't really want him to stay on the album because he'd disappeared, you know - so he's feeling a kind of divided loyalty and he said: 'Brian, can you come and do stuff which I WILL LIKE, (laughing) and I won't feel too bad about ditching this other stuff?'" - Brian May, 2000.
While Axl was trying to cut Robin's work out of Chinese Democracy, hiring high-profile guitarists such as Dave Navarro and Brian May to lay guitar tracks, he started recording vocals for some of the songs, like HardSchool (now Hard Skool), Catcher in The Rye and The Blues (now Street of Dreams). Among them, the still unreleased Atlas Shrugged has lyrics which are allegedly about Robin.
An excerpt from Atlas Shrugged lyrics.
Whether it's about him or not, the lyrics go along with feelings of "following his heart" Robin expressed through interviews from that time.
"It was a difficult decision to make because I was so wrapped up in what I was doing at the time and I was proud of the work I'd done. But when it came down to it, I couldn't imagine NIN going out without me or with somebody else. I'm in a good place right now." - Robin Finck, 1999.
Prior to quitting the band to form A Perfect Circle with Billy Howerdel, Josh Freese helped Axl getting in touch with Buckethead. In early 2000 Buckethead was convinced to join in.
3 guitars lineup
"Originally it was gonna be a two-guitar player group. I split forever so I thought and went back to Nine Inch Nails. In my absence they were looking to replace me and Josh Freese, the drummer at the time, had brought Buckethead in to essentially fill the slot I had left. They really liked him but he's kind of a stunt guitar player. He does a very specific thing and he has a real genius sensibility about him. But he rarely plays the same thing twice ever and when you're trying to cruise through 'Nightrain' that just makes it a little (laughs) too different. So they needed someone to anchor the songs. They kept Buckethead to do what Buckethead does and they needed someone else to play alongside." - Robin Finck, 2014.
In late 2000 Robin returned to Guns for the upcoming gig as headliner act of Rock in Rio III Festival. As a sort of warm-up show, the band was booked for a New Year's Eve gig at The House of Blues in Las Vegas. It was the first time Robin performed live with Guns n' Roses.
Robin and Buckethead playing Paradise City at The House of Blues, January 1st, 2001.
With two lead guitarists, rumors that Robin and Buckethead weren't getting along very well began to emerge. And it seems that Axl encouraged competition between them.
"So it's taken a long time to pull these guys together and then have them develop a chemistry with themselves. When we first did our first show in Vegas, Robin and Buckethead didn't know each other at all, and you've got two lead guitar players trying to kill each other. You know, with their abilities. It's like when I tried to bring Zakk and Slash together. That didn’t go too well. (...) It was fun to watch." - Axl Rose, 2002.
Although neither Robin or Buckethead talked about it, years later Tommy Stinson showed his disdain for Buckethead on interviews and soon-to-be a member Richard Fortus has talked extensively about how difficult it was to make a lineup with three guitarists work. I'll return to this topic later.
Skullet
For these shows, Robin appeared with an extreme form of the mullet hairstyle, the skullet. Differing from his previous tours with Nine Inch Nails, this time he maintained the same haircut for the whole touring cycle: from the few performances in 2001 until their last gig in 2002. The only difference is that he straightened his hair in 2002.
At The Joint, Las Vegas, December 31st, 2001. Photo by Robert John.
From their US leg of the tour, 2002. Photo by George Chin.
Better
Between his comeback and early 2001, Robin came up with a song working titled 3 Dollar Pyramid, which turned out to be Better, the only song released with credits attributed exclusively to him and Axl Rose.
"[Better] was brought in after Josh [Freese] and was written by the band. It was Robin Finck’s song. We jammed it for a couple weeks and then went into the studio and recorded it." - Bryan "Brain" Mantia (GnR's drummer from May 2000 until June 2006), 2009.
Better without vocals
Richard Fortus
In 1999 Richard auditioned for Robin's place. He wasn't the chosen one but became good friends with Tommy. When Paul Tobias stepped out of his role as rhythm guitarist, Tommy called Richard to replace him for the 2002 tour.
Soon Richard and Robin formed a strong bond, which could be seen on as much as offstage throughout Robin's tenure, with Richard stating several times how much he loved working with him afterwards.
Richard and Robin during Nightrain at Allstate Arena, Chicago, November 18th, 2002.
Refusing to leave
After the 2002 tour being cancelled halfway through and "Guns' inability to complete an album", Buckethead quit in late 2003. In spite of the uncertainty of their situation as a band, Robin preferred not to leave them this time to tour with Nine Inch Nails. According to Reznor, his choice was driven by greed.
"Robin Finck [was] getting paid loads of money to hang out with Axl Rose and his house was getting paid for. You know what, f*ck you." - Trent Reznor, 2005.
Robin has never touched on this subject, but there are two things that need to be stressed: The album was very close to be finished and Guns was planning to perform in late 2005 - which only became reality in 2006 - so his decision might have been because of it.
2 guitars lineup?
"As far as I know, he [Buckethead] hasn't been replaced, but we already have enough guitarists". - Tommy Stinson, 2004.
"At the moment, Robin Finck and I are the only guitarists in the band. We switch off between lead and rhythm." - Richard Fortus, 2005.
They kept rehearsing as a duo until a few weeks before their warm-up gigs for the European tour at the Hammerstein Ballroom in May 2006.
"It was just Robin and myself, and we were doing rehearsals and Brain, and it was phenomenal, I mean, absolutely amazing. And literally, I think it was two days before we were supposed to do our first show, the energy was palpable. [...] Axl came down, he was like, 'This is the band I've always wanted.' The next day Bumblefoot comes in, and I guess, they found this guy and he came in, and the whole dynamic just completely shifted." - Richard Fortus, 2020.
Bullying Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal
Tommy had stated that they weren't doing auditions for a new guitarist, but Axl's team contacted Ron in 2004. Although nothing happened from it, in April 2006, Axl called him to "jam" with the band while they were rehearsing for their tour. Ron became Buckethead's replacement and stayed with them until 2015. In the beginning, he wasn't treated well by "some" members.
"Well, when I first joined the band, they did not want me in the band. And it’s not me - they just didn’t want a third guitar player. 'Cause at the time they had worked it out for two guitar players. Then suddenly the old manager at the time hits them up one day, and the tour was, like, two weeks away. He said, 'your new guitar player is coming down'. And they’re like, 'what the hell - who the fuck is this?', and I showed up, and they wouldn’t even look at me. For that first tour, you know, I was treated like shit. Like absolute shit. They wouldn’t really talk to me. If I spoke, they’d roll their eyes and walk out of the room. I was made to feel as unwelcome as possible. Until, finally, I had to get a little violent. And then they started realizing that I’m not gonna leave. They’re gonna get hurt. Physically. Then they realized that they couldn’t bully me, and that I was gonna fight at a level they weren’t prepared for. [...] ‘Cause I didn’t know why they were so cold to me, and I realized that they would have treated anybody that way. It was a set of circumstances, a lack of communication from the management that was there at the time, that set it up so it was almost like a stranger thrown into a crowded cage." - Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal, 2013.
Note: By "physically", he meant he "tried to stab three people on stage at a show in 2006", as he told WickedInfo in 2010.
Extreme makeover
Robin playing the main solo of Sweet Child o'Mine in Chicago, 2002 (left) and in Los Angeles, 2006 (right).
"A third guitarist stood apart from the others both visually and sonically, effortlessly tearing through every riff and solo like a man possessed; think Jimmy Page on ecstasy. Even after Rose introduced the bearded, sunglass-wearing phenomenon by name, dressed like a cross between Jim Morrison and Chris Robinson, I still couldn’t believe I was looking at Robin Finck. [...] Exuding a confidence no amount of posturing can imitate, he brought a searing intensity to each Guns song with impassioned intricacy and soul. [...] Finck was great before his apparent bohemian awakening, but this was something else entirely. He was essentially running through a gallery of world-renowned portraits and landscapes, the best of their time and sacred to many, casting his own colors and impressions onto each canvas. Somehow, blasphemy be damned, he made improvements." - Antiquiet review of Guns N' Roses' performance at Gibson Amphitheater, December 16th, 2006.
Robin's definitive departure
On April 4th 2008 NIN.com broke the news that Robin was back to the fold with a picture of him at the studio. Without knowing for sure Robin's position, Axl showed being open for a return.
"Last I was aware, he had some interest in touring, though I can't say what that means until then. In our opinion, he's made things a bit awkward publicly, but that's just his way." - Axl Rose, 2009.
Unfortunately, even with the Chinese Democracy's release in the end of that year, Robin didn't come back afterwards.
One night reappearance
The guitarist had a surprise appearance on March 12 2012 at House of Blues venue in Los Angeles to perform his song, Better, and that was the last time he got up on stage with Guns.
That's it, most of the info and rumors here I've gotten from GnR forums: MyGnRforum.com, a-4-d.com and GnRevolution.com, so a big thank you to everyone.
Rob Sheridan: "Probably one of the many gems we picked up in the bootleg market outside the NIN Mexico City show. They had the most creative range of bootleg merch."
More info about the "NIN's biggest fan Tony" in this Background Worlds' IG post
Robin's one of the finest musicians on the planet and is literally capable of anything. We're good friends and our families hang out… he just floors me with his incredible passion and delivery and all that beautiful sound design. In my eyes, he’s the best guitarist on the planet.
Trent has the uncanny ability of finding the finest musicians on the planet, period. People that can convey the passion, intensity and ethos of NIN on stage. He knows how to find people that do that and also be flexible enough to play the intimate stuff from The Fragile and Ghosts. Trent requires that… you need a really deep musicality and be able to play with passion and fire. Robin is the embodiment of that.
- Justin Meldal-Johnsen
Session bass supremo Justin Meldal-Johnsen talks playing with Nine Inch Nails and Beck, and reveals his studio secrets
“Well, Nine Inch Nails is Trent’s band. Trent’s trying to make his music the best way he can think of. What am I doing in it? I’m not that great of a guitar player, I’m a great performer. Piggy was a great character, he was this crazy skinny guy on stage, I made him laugh. Trent, I used to make that fucker laugh 24 hours a day and just be his sidekick, his piggy, his goofy “come here piggy, what do you think about this? Ehh fuck it” you know? And I would go out of my way to be his, the extension of his chaos. I would be his right hand man and he wouldn’t wanna get himself in trouble but I would do it and he would go “Piggy, what do you think about that?” Like there was this day, Chris Vrenna had his… his laundry was all being put together and we were all in a hotel room and my bags had like shit all in it and everything is stinky and Chris Vrenna’s bag is packed immaculately and he’s like “Piggy, look at that man, doesn’t that just make you sick, look at how perfect he is, socks are in the sock thing and he’s got his underwear over there, he’s got his little dopp kit all set up, what do you think of that?” and I’m like “Piggy not like”. I would just go over and just attack it. Chris and I ended up getting into a huge fight and I threw him into a coffee table and he bled all over the place”
"Once upon a time, my nickname was Queenie. That was true, I haven’t heard that in several years. That was the first generation into NIN. That was different Robin, no eyebrows, crazy stuff." - Robin Finck for Real Detroit Weekly, 2000
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