"Morally gray my ass"
-MXTX, but not with these words

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@jiao-ji
"Morally gray my ass"
-MXTX, but not with these words
I didn't mean to talk about it, but I can't get my mind off how revolting it was:
I was reading this fanfic in which the idea was very interesting, even with the fanon Jiang Cheng in the middle, but then the author made Yu ZiYuan and FengMian a couple who love each other, with FGM realizing their "mistake" (my man FGM didn't deserve it) I was ignoring everything and just focusing on WangXian, but then THAT chapter came, and I knew I couldn't keep reading for long. Lan WangJi and WWX were talking, but WWX was clearly stressed and being pressured by JGS and several other cultivators around. When YZY arrived and just slapped!!! at WWX, in front of everyone. I felt that humiliation would be seen as something that WWX "needed" and so it was... it was so disgusting and annoying that apologism to abuse that I never got it out of my head :(
*using the drunk plot on Jiang Cheng because he's not stupid to fight alone and sober with Lan WangJi*
when will society stop pretending that hanguang jun has a fat ass?????
I think about that every day.
Wanted a fic with LWJ being VenonJi and WWX as Eddie... or maybe VenonXian e LWJ as Eddie...
I wanted to draw that, but i don't know how to draw
I'am in love with that picture: His little smile, the Guqin on his back, his eyes, his robes 💙💙💙 i love him so much i live for him
Hi! I'm damn scared TGCF and SV will blow up like MDZS. The stans are gonna murder Hua Cheng. I mean, look at the amount of hate Lan Wangji gets. Hua Cheng doesn't stand a chance. And if I see one morally gray Xie Lian take I'll straight up go on a murder spree.
Forget about LBH. If there is one actual Morally gray MXTX MC, it's him. I don't even want to think about what the toxic stan's will do to him.
Also, Every MXTX novel has a Jiang Cheng. SV has Shen Jiu and TGCF has Mu Qing. Except Mu Qing is better than JC. And even Shen Jiu is kind of better than JC.
jc stans see jc in every other work they consume bc "jiang cheng" is just a place holder for them. He's their self insert. The only way they can consume media is if they self insert into it, so every other piece of media they end up "enjoying"- meaning that just offers them a character they can relatively easily project on- will invariably have a "jiang cheng" in their mind. And ofc since their version of "jiang cheng" has really little to do w the actual character there's very few criteria that need to be met for those comparisons. MXTX doesn't really have another character exactly like jc, except for maybe qi rong, but even he provides some comic relief- Mainly when he's getting his ass kicked.
If tgcf/svsss blow up naturally there will be a more terrible takes. Especially depending on what the tgcf LA will do with the story line & characters. People already try to make Hua Cheng seem like a creepy stalker and complain Xie Lian isn't eVen tHAt goOd... Maybe I'm just unfamiliar with the nature of fandoms at large but I do find it odd for people who hate the mcs of particular work to then nevertheless squat in that fandom just to keep shitting on them (or the author of the work for successfully writing the genre they're choosing to consume).
I don't know what I will do if people come for hua cheng and xielian with their first meet age gap. Someone WILL get cursed that day over a work of fiction i don't think I will be able to hold back 😭. LIKE LEAVE THE GOD AND HIS GHOST KING HUSBAND ALONE FFS. Although I think QR is tgcf's jc but people will probably call mq stronger and better than xie lian, will use guoshi's attitude towards mq to inflict hate on xie lian. Oh god feels like a storm coming... won't even talk about pei ming and Jun wu rn. Just thinking about the messy and bad takes makes me want to mute tgcf live action.
Se alguém falaar merda errada do Luo eu vou coringar... eu sei que SVSS tem seus defeitos mas pleamorde Deus
I tried, but is like talk to a wall
I think some ppl don't realize the novel wouldn't exist if all the characters did as they said, MDZS is a novel that requires the readers to be able to read between the lines. When characters like JC, JGY and XY bring up their sob stories and claim they justify their evil, we're not supposed to believe them. A lot of what JC, YZY, JGY and XY say is contradict what actually happens in the story.
The entire plot is about misleading the readers with rumors and lies told by some characters and making us believe WWX was the villain in his past life only to find out WWX was always the moral ideal while everyone else was willing to condone torture and murder of innocents (in peacetime), or was actively targeting WWX out of greed for his power.
So no, JC isn't a a good person or a victim, JFM didn't favor WWX and he didn't hate JC, JGY is not actually gentle, nice or loving towards anybody, and XY isn't in any way fair. Those ppl all lie to justify their shitty behavior, and if we pay attention to what we're reading beyond just believing everything every character says, it's kind of obvious.
...how was JC not a victim? How did JFM not favor WWX? How was JGY not gentle, nice or loving toward LXC or his wife? HOW WAS WWX A MORAL IDEAL?
It's almost as if the OP is the one taking everything at face value ("WWX is the hero so he is morally ideal and untainted, while JGY is coded as the villain and therefore evil and bad in every single aspect").
To me, the BEST part of MDZS is that the hero is ultimately good but still morally grey, which makes him feel more realistic and (in my opinion) a much more interesting character, and that the main villain is not pure evil (I'd argue he shows plenty of genuine kindness to some people) but still makes terrible choices and hurts others for his own gain (justified or not).
In fact, if you pay attention, you'll realize that the main hero and main villain are so much alike - both are treated poorly by some (or most) people because of their family background and in a way feel like outsiders (WWX with the Jiangs and later in Cloud Recesses, JGY with the Nies and later with the Jins), they are both far more capable than their peers DESPITE their background, both are praised and admired while in a position of power and are made into scapegoats for every bad thing that happens in the cultivation world after their deaths (I can't remember if this happens in the novel, but in the live action drama WWX literally comments on how after JGY's death everything is blamed on him, even things he could have never done, just like everything was blamed on the Yiling patriarch when he was dead), and they both form a close bond with a Lan (WWX with LWJ, JGY with LXC) because the Lan brothers are the only ones who treat them with respect and ever bother to truly get to know them beyond the "that annoying but really talented drunkard kid/big scary Yiling patriarch" WWX and "son of a whore/chief cultivator" JGY.
The OP also seems to forget that while we, the readers, know that a big portion of the Wen family never agreed or wanted to partake in the horrors commited by WRH, most of the outsiders DIDN'T. In fact, your "morally ideal" WWX also reacts negatively toward them at first, before he is forced to let them help him and realize they are, in fact, good people in a terrible situation. Literally the WHOLE POINT of the WWX + Wens vs. the rest of the cultivating world conflict is that WWX is the ONLY ONE (well other than LWJ and JC briefly) who spent time with the Wens and truly got to know them, while the rest of the cultivating world only knows that they belong to a family that commited GENOCIDE. You're also ignoring the cultural differences - Nie Mingjue is literally considered by everyone to be a just leader, you might as well say his middle name is just and righteous, but he's just as happy and eager to have the remaining Wens executed. This is what is considered justice, a well-deserved fate for the members of the Wen family, and it's mainly because WWX opposes it that he becomes everybody's target. His growing power was becoming a problem for many, but I'd argue it wouldn't turn quite so violent quite so soon if not for the Wens.
I hope that at some point this fandom grows enough to accept that not all heroes are perfect and morally ideal, and not villains are pure evil.
arikeia's tags: #what a terrible take this is#you had me in the first paragraph#but then you just said shit that makes me think you never truly engaged with this story#what a way to oversimplify complex characters because you're unable to accept that people are not either good or evil#WWX literally reanimated CORPSES#this would be considered immoral even in the West!#how did JFM not favor WWX when he LITERALLY SHOWS IT WITH HIS ACTIONS??#why would his own family and even OUTSIDERS think he favors WWX if not for his actions?#do you really think people would just believe Madame Yu's word on it?#the general public even made fun of her for how JFM treated WWX and started rumors that WWX might be JFM's bastard son because of it#HOW IS JC NOT A VICTIM???#he grew up with a toxic mother (who loved him sure but was STILL toxic and abusive) and a distant father#he lost his golden core (!!!) and was then given WWX's golden core WITHOUT HIS KNOWLEDGE OR CONSENT#HIS ENTIRE CLAN WAS MURDERED??????#LIKE#WHEN HE WAS STILL A TEEN?#not that it would be easier if he was an adult but jesus HE WAS A KID#HE SAW HIS ENTIRE FAMILY GET SLAUGHTERED#HE HAD TO WATCH HIS SISTER DIE#the only family member he had left other than WWX#listen I'm not a huge fan of JC but damn#just admit you hate him for whatever reason and move on#what a terrible terrible take this post was
KkHow is JC a victim? Facing the consequences of his own decisions doesn't make him a victim. He even gets away with most of his shit. He's in no way a victim, he's one of the villains of the novel, who's so jealous of WWX he chooses to lie to the cultivation world and claim WWX declared himself the enemy of all the sects, when WWX never said that. He is always putting WWX down and dismissing both his brilliance and his hurts.
JC and his mother say JFM favours WWX, but the actual actions of the characters in the novel contradict this. JFM allowed his wife to frequently whip WWX pretty for minor things or even no reason at all, that's an adult whipping a f*cking child. It doesn't matter that she's not WWX's mother, no one is asking her to be, but she's being an awful human by doing this. The novel states that JFM tried to teach JC about their sect many times and in many ways, but JC, like his mother just didn't learn. JFM comforts JC gently when he's sad, which is stated in the text of the novel. He reprimands JC when he says WWX should leave the sect heirs and disciples from the indoctrination camp (which includes JC himself, actually) to die, which any parent who gives a shit about their kids would do, teaching one's child is a parents job. If a parent doesn't correct their child when they say shit like this, they are doing a terrible job.
He praises WWX because WWX did something deserving of praise - he killed a legendary 400 year old monster - that's not favoritism.
He says WWX can choose whether he goes to the Wen Indoctrination camp or not, if he actually favored WWX he wouldn't have let him go. He let's WWX choose because he knows WWX will go and take care of JC. JC is obligated to go because the Wen sect demanded a blood related clan member, and there's only JC or JYL, and JYL is too weak to go.
His last words to JC are telling him to be well, but his last words to WWX are telling him to take care of JC.
I'll also remind you that WWX was never adopted into the Jiang clan. So he was never a threat to JC's position.
Besides, JC is already shown to think his father doesn't like him before WWX even arrived in Lotus Pier. He believes this because his mother keeps telling him so, not because of WWX or JFM.
The whole thing about WWX's mother and JFM is only a rumor, and one of the themes of the novel is that rumors are often untrustworthy. As for the marital problems between JFM and YZY, they have nothing to do with WWX. In the novel, it's stated that JFM and YZY knew each other since childhood, but JFM never liked YZY's personality. When the Yu clan proposed marriage, JFM refused many times, but since he was young and had no support, he ended up being pressured into marrying YZY. The novel clearly states that they never got along.
YZY isn't trustworthy, she actually contradicts herself all the time. Sometimes in the same sentence. The novel even states that her temper is such that even when what she says doesn't make sense, ppl have to shut up and endure it.
The fall of Lotus Pier wasn't WWX's fault either. The Wens would always have come, as JC himself admits in the novel, before deciding he'd rather blame WWX anyway. YZY was the one who couldn't sacrifice her pride and let the Wens make a supervisory office. If she had, the Jiang sect might have survived and had the chance to fight back later.
The Jiang sect was never burned in the book, it was the Lan sect that was burned. And the Jiangs got lots of spoils of war because of WWX's contributions. WWX's reputation also attracted many disciples to the Jiang sect during and after the Sunshot campaign. This is stated in the novel.
JC himself admits that he knows the Wen Remnants are only the old, the weak and the children and that he owes Wen Qing and Wen Ning his life. He also says WWX should return them to the Jins and even says he'd kill them himself. He tries to kill Wen Ning when he first visits the burial mounds and is only stopped by WWX. Then, WWX decides to leave the Jiang sect, and JC proceeds to tell everyone that WWX had declared himself the enemy of the cultivation world, which is something WWX never said. JC was telling a lie there.
When WWX was invited to JL's celebration he was attacked by Jin Zixun and 300 archers. When Jin Zixuan arrived, instead of stopping his cousin from attacking the guest he invited himself, he demands WWX stop defending himself. When WWX refuses, points this out and tells Jin Zixuan not to come closer, Jin Zixuan ingonores him and gets closer with his sword in hand, which causes the accident in which Jin Zixuan dies.
Then, at Nightless City, the sects attack WWX first despite having promised Wen Qing and Wen Ning that they wouldn't (and they killed Wen Qing and pretended to kill Wen Ning) and blame him for retaliating, JYL shows up and asks WWX to stop defending himself, which he does, and when, unsurprisingly, someone tries to kill him from behind, JYL sacrifices herself to save him, which JC sees and proceeds to lie, saying WWX killed JYL.
Then, JC ignores JYL's sacrifice and leads the siege to kill WWX and the Wen Remnants whom he knew were innocent ppl to whom he owed his life. He's not forced to do this. The novel stated clearly that the Jiangs were the main force behind the Siege, the Jins were the second and the Nies and Lans they could have done without.
Then, JC proceeds to spend the next 13 years taking away, torturing and killing anyone he suspects to be a demonic cultivator because he thinks they might be WWX, and even if he's proven wrong, he doesn't let them go. In the novel, this is stated by Jin Ling, by the ppl of Yunmeng, by JC himself both numerous times, both aloud and in his own thoughts.
When WWX comes back, the first thing JC does is try to kill him again - I'll remind you that Zidian would have expelled WWX's soul from that body if MXY hadn't given up his body willingly.
As for the golden core transfer, JC consented to an unknown procedure in order to have a golden core again. He AGREED TO NOT KNOW. And when he finds out, the only thing he cares about is being unable to continue his one sided competition with WWX, and being unable to continue to blame WWX for everything that goes wrong in his life ever.
As for demonic cultivation, nobody cares when it's being used to their own benefit. During the war, everyone was praising and flattering WWX. 13 yrs later, everyone is using the lure flags and compasses of evil without a care. JGS had XY reforming the Stygian Tiger Seal, which even LWJ, who doesn't care for gossip, knows about, and no one does anything about it. NMJ only cares when XY murders ppl from the Yueyang Chang sect. When WWX comes back and uses demonic cultivation, ppl at most will say something bad but only JC tries to kill him over it, and that's because he thinks it's WWX. I think you missed the point where MDZS is a story that subverts the common Wuxia tropes. In common Wuxia tropes demonic cultivation is evil and spiritual cultivation is good. In MDZS, the type of cultivation is just a tool, instead you have to judge good and evil through the characters actions. The cultivation society at large was practiced spiritual cultivation but their actions, especially post-Sunshot campaign, were unjust. WWX practiced demonic cultivation, but he unfailingly did the very best the circumstances allowed. He was never the one to initiate conflict, and never took revenge on the innocent. The point here is that demonic cultivation isn't inherently evil, and despite what other characters say about it changing a persos's heart, WWX continues to practice it even after his resurrection and doesn't show any sign of being affected like that at all. In his first life what caused his mental strain wasn't demonic cultivation, but the awful circumstances, the injustices and losses.
WWX stays despite JC's toxic behavior for so long, that when, at the end, he's finally done putting up with him it's very much to be expected. If JC refuses to treat ppl decently, he should expect them to leave him. Nobody's obligated to put up with toxic behavior from others.
I'll also remind ppl that this isn't a historical novel, it's a fantasy novel, written by a modern author for a modern audience. What is and isn't moral isn't defined by real world ancient chinese morality. The author herself stated in an interview that WWX is the moral ideal. You can agree or not that she did a good job portraying that, but you can't decide that the moral ideal of MDZS is something else just because you want it to be.
As for JGY, he certainly pretends to be gentle. But he also kills his own son, something he admits to at Guanyin Temple, and kills his wife, which he also admits to at Guanyin Temple. How is killing his wife being gentle towards her?!
He uses Lan Xichen to climb the social ladder, manipulates him, lies to him and uses him to kill NMJ, who is Lan Xichen's close friend. His consideration of Lan Xichen only extends as far as sparing his life, which is pretty low bar. With the way he used LXC to commit crimes he knows goes against LXC's morals, you'd still say JGY is king and gentle towards LXC?! How?!
A sad past doesn't justify evil. JC, JGY and XY all use their sad backstories to justify their actions, and that makes them the villains. Them crying about it doesn't change the fact that their actions were shitty.
WWX is a much more tragic character than any of them, but he doesn't let the misery of the past define him, and chooses not to hold on to sadness in life. He doesn't massacre innocents. All the fights he's in are started by the other party. He never turns evil because of his sad backstory and that makes him the hero.
MDZS is a criticism of society's hipocrisy and classism. JC is part of the mob, JGY uses the mob. WWX is the hero because he's the one who stands against the mob to do what's right, even at the cost of his life. And he is rewarded by being given a second chance at life, falling in love with LWJ and living happily ever after with his husband, night hunting and teaching the juniors. The greatest proof that WWX was right and that everything was worth it is Lan Sizhui, Wen Yuan's survival. Wen Yuan not only survives, but is a splendid young cultivator, well adjusted and happy.
I don't hate JC and JGY as characters, in fact, I think they make perfectly fine villains. What I do hate is this fandom's tendency to shift blame and distort the novel in order to justify their shitty behavior, usually at a cost to WWX's character. Anyone can have headcannons, as long as they know their headcannons aren't cannon. JC and JGY's actions aren't justified, and that's fine, because they are villains and they serve their purpose in the story.
WWX isn't morally grey, he is the moral compass of the entire story, as is supported by the narrative and confirmed by MXTX herself.
Imagine thinking WWX is morally grey, JC is a victim, and JGY was loving to his wife. Tell me you lack comprehension without telling me you lack it.
Tell me that you don't know reading comprehension without tell me you don't know reading comprehension:
"Lan WangJi knows GusuLan never would be like YunmengJiang to Wei WuXian, but..."
Tf? Of course YMJ and GSL never would be the same... GusuLan is WWX true home, with his loved ones and someone who truly love him.
I don't understand why people make YMJ like "WWX's first and beloved home", people even say one time "for me, WWX still a Jiang"... he never was a Jiang, he never was truly loved or totally well in that sect, he was just a disciple and the punch bag for two classissist shits.
Is so funny and sad people insisting "YMJ was WWX true home", because never was, he never was truly welcome in YMJ sect.
Clown on my post, so i can block you pls.
One thing that started bothering me recently is the constant comparing wwx with a lotus flower, I mean... I get it ok. The symbolism is there, the flower is pretty, but why must it be ALWAYS a Lotus?
There's so much more cool flowers with GREAT meanings and symbolism.
The spider-lily is one of my personal favorites for wwx, but I know there's more. I even made my own search about the matter (especially in chinese flower symbolism) and I found this link:
Chinese flowers are a recurring theme in Chinese art and poetry. The importance of flowers in the culture along with symbolism and taboos.
Which I (in my fairly little experience) find quite helpful, so I hope it does the same for you guys.
This would help a lot, i am tired of the "smelling Lotus flower" lol
mdzs: lan wangji’s first appearance
So perfect with his "dead wife eyes"
"Why wangxian have to be so happy >:( they are cheating"
"So many people have lost a lot, but just wangxian get a happy ending >:(("
Darling you don't know basic reading intepretation. Actually i think you don't know how to READ!
"Lan WangJi knows GusuLan never would be like YunmengJiang to Wei WuXian, but..."
Tf? Of course YMJ and GSL never would be the same... GusuLan is WWX true home, with his loved ones and someone who truly love him.
I don't understand why people make YMJ like "WWX's first and beloved home", people even say one time "for me, WWX still a Jiang"... he never was a Jiang, he never was truly loved or totally well in that sect, he was just a disciple and the punch bag for two classissist shits.
Is so funny and sad people insisting "YMJ was WWX true home", because never was, he never was truly welcome in YMJ sect.
Clown on my post, so i can block you pls.
My brain: ... hey, what you think about this idea?
Me: Wow! So cool! I'm going write this later.
Me later, looking at the Word page i open for one hour:
Meanwhile my brain: Idea? What idea? :)
jiang cheng stans: jc is the most beloved, softest Clan Leader ever. All the disciples adore him and are his adored, spoiled ducklings 🥺
canon:
"Jiang Cheng smiled coldly. “No need!” He chose to reverse course and take a leisurely stroll down the mountain. His disciples followed behind him silently, their faces miserable and marked with anxiety, knowing that when they returned, there would be no way to avoid their Clan Chief’s wrath." (Chapter 8)
... 🌝
I feel so bad for then :(
Jiang Wanyin; Love=Convenience
…………………….sometimes, I look at JC’s resentment and I’m scared. Not scared of him per se but rather, scared of what I discovered.
The thing about love is that it’s never easy. Love, whether we thrive in it or are wary of it, is capable of turning toxic. I mean srsly, just look at the Jiang family (*koff* Madam Ew *koff*).
And one thing that I’ve come to realize about how JC views love? To him, it’s a convenience. He treats love like a convenience. WWX once loved him like a brother and look at how that ended. YZY claimed to love him too and she’s not getting best mom of the year award in a million lifetimes.
And even JYL, perhaps the one positive love JC had in his life was eventually turned into a convenience. Because if JC truly loved her, if he truly respected and wished to honor her memory, he wouldn’t have used his love for her as an excuse to hate WWX.
When you use someone’s love as an excuse to hurt and torture someone else, a love that’s meant to be pure and cherished, aren’t you tainting it in the worst way possible? Especially if it’s love towards a person like JYL, who for all her mediocracy, would definitely not approve of all the screwed up shit JC committed for the past 13 years.
It made me realize how so many ppl can end up repeating the same thing, perhaps without even knowing it. It made myself terrified of loving someone for fear that if I were to lose them, I would become just as bitter & miserable as JC.
JC also viewed love as a convenience in the sense that he believes it should just be handed to him. Like how there should be toilet paper available in all restrooms. He expects it to be handed to him when he himself makes no effort to give it.
He saw WWX’s brotherly love for him as a convenience too; for it conveniently granted him a guard dog/powerhouse during the SSC and a scapegoat post-SSC. Sometimes, I wonder if he also sees JL’s familial love as a convenience for he conveniently has some remnant of his dead sister within easy reach & no matter how shitty he is, he won’t leave him, bcz they’re family and they ‘love’ each other.
Love IS NOT A CONVENIENCE. If you view love as a ‘convenience’ then forget finding true love bcz at the end of the day, the love you give is always conditional and rlly, who wants to put up with that if they can avoid it? WWX certainly burned that bridge and never looked back once he stepped onto the narrow-planked one with LWJ, a man who loves him unconditionally.
Come to think of it, if JC had this same mindset while searching for a partner, it’s no wonder he was blacklisted. It’s no wonder at the end of the novel, he’s even more bitter and lonelier. It’s no wonder there’s a possibility that even if the core thrumming in him is strong, he’s most likely cursed to live a miserable lonely life without someone by his side.
If you wanna argue along the line of arranged marriages then fine; but when it comes to familial love, it is not a convenience. Period.
JC stans who hc him loving his nephew, his brother, his disciples or whatever- pls just don’t clown my post.
This!
Thats why "YunmengJiang bros" never will happen.
When you live someone truly, you don't expect nothing for then, JC never loved WWX UNconditionally and never will, it does not matter how Jiang Stans want to happen.
Glad that MXTX make ""YunmengJiang bros"" never happen, and never will happen.