Am I the only one who thinks that JWs publishing a magazine titled āAwake!ā is almost painfully ironic?
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Am I the only one who thinks that JWs publishing a magazine titled āAwake!ā is almost painfully ironic?
7 votes and 22 comments so far on Reddit
So the other day I was reading the exjw subreddit, Iāve found this post and I wanted to talk about something Iāve just realized:
In particular the 2 last paragraphs.
Iāve never thought about it that way!!
Well actually when I was in, the doctrine was that the anointed would be raptured at the start of Armageddon and now itās during the Great Tribulation. So I think we all thought that they wouldnāt participate in the killing, or maybe itās just me.
But anyway, if you think about it itās VERY CREEPY!!
It means that currently, the jws believe the anointed (the Governing Body and the others) will, along with Jesus and the angels, participate in the killing of all of mankind expect the good jws. Yes, because in this organization, youāre not sure youāre going to make it even youāre a baptized.
Let me clarify: The Governing Body, the leaders are supposed to directly kill the jws, their own āflockā, who arenāt good enough.
This is blatant blackmail!!
Let me clarify one last time because itās crazy: The Governing Body is like:Ā
āHey if you donāt listen to us and do whatever we tell you to do, weāre going to kill you during Armageddon with our pals Jesus and the angelsā
This is horrifying!!
And what about the random anointed in the congregations? My own mother believes sheās an anointed!!!
My own mother believes sheās going to kill everyone except the good jws, along with Jesus and the angels INCLUDING ME!!!!
Well actually I donāt know if she realize the jw doctrine isnātĀ āWe donāt know if everyone who isnāt a jw will die, God will read the heartsā which I heard a lot, but isĀ āYes, God and his buddies will kill everyone, except jws, well, good jws!ā
Some notes on a post I reblogged got me riled up. Itās the one about Eve eating the fruit. The point of the fucking post is that God, who gave humans Free Will⢠can only demand worship via coherison. Coherison is NOT free will. If a parent says you can have an apple or an orange, but if you choose the orange Iāll beat your ass youād say the child did not have a choice. God saying Obey me Or Else isnāt loving, it"s not free will. I donāt give two fucking rats asses if he created the universe. If he wants to kill me, or send me to hell for having a different fucking opinion he better come down here and to it himself. Him creating the world doesnāt give him the right to be a tyrannical asshole and I would physically fight God about that fact. Come down here and face me yourself you omnicent coward.
āHim creating the world doesnāt give him the right to be a tyrannical assholeā
In a discussion with my (jw) sister, the question of free will showed up. And after Idonātknowhowlong (when she ran out of āargumentsā) she basically refused exactly what you wrote. I found it pretty interesting hearing it THIS clearly from an active PIMI JDub. Usually they run in circles trying to avoid any kind of clear statement.
While she didnāt use the wordsĀ ātyrannical assholeā, of course (I think, I did say something along those line in the discussion ;o), she literally said:Ā āJehovah created the universe. So it is his right to do whatever he wants to doā
What I donāt understand - literally donāt understand - is why they stick to this dumb phraseĀ āfree willā. When clearly it isnāt free will. It isĀ āwillā. But not āfreeā. Not even in the most literal meaning ofĀ āyou can want something but you better not act upon itā, because even thoughts are regulated, like in Matthew 5:
ā... But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment⦠ā
ā... But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart...ā
Why donāt they skip theĀ āfreeā? In that way theyād come across at least a bit honest. Even though this still doesnāt explain why aĀ ālovingā God would make humans even capable of wanting something that they mustnāt have. And then putting this something that they must not have, and that will inevitably lead to thousands of years of misery when they obtain it, DIRECTLY in view. And making it so easy to obtain. And then looking away when the dummies did eventually obtain it (just as if this wasnāt clear from the beginning. Especially, when youāre omniscient)... And then punishing them and millions of people afterwards... Loving indeed. /s
Critical thinking
Common logical fallacies - Part 01
In my discussions with active Jehovahās Witnesses, I often hit walls. I presume, they are the same walls everyone hits, who tries to argue with a devout ābelieverā of any religion. What I found especially interesting, is that there are recurring āargumentation pattersā. And many of them are classic logical fallacies.Ā Knowing that they exist, what they are, what they mean, and how they work, might not help us to convince other people, but it certainly helps us to not being shut up, it might help us to not run against walls anymore, identify these fallacies when we face them, and it also helps us to argue more consistently and honestly by avoiding these logical fallacies ourselves. With that having said, letās start this little series withĀ āAā as in...
āAd Hominemā
āAd hominemā is Latin for āto the personā or āagainst the manā, and is a very commonly used tactic for shooting down discussions by attacking a person instead of addressing the the argument the person made.
āWhat do you know, anyway?ā, āYouāre too stupid to understand this complex issueā, Ā āYouāre too young/too inexperienced/not educated enoughā, āYouāre a woman/a Liberal/an Atheist/a Republican/gay/... Of course you think that wayā, āYou just do this/say this because you want to do/say XYZā etc. etc. etc. Using phrases like these as āargumentsā and without even addressing the point that was originally made, is called making āad hominem argumentsā because the argument is directed at the person who made the point rather than the point itself.
The ad hominem is used as if it were evidence against the point the opponent made, while in reality it solely tries to invalidate the opponentās point by demeaning the opponent. The ad hominem is often based on prejudice.
The āformulaā is very simple: āYour argument is invalid because _you_ made itā.Ā The focus is not on the argument but on the person who made the argument. Hence the nameĀ āad hominemā -Ā āto the personā /Ā āagainst the manā.
Variants
the āabusive ad hominemā - a more or less direct insult by attacking the appearance, intellect, or character of a person - basically:Ā āYouāre too dumb/ugly/selfish/... to talk about thisā
the ācircumstantial ad hominemā or āappeal to motiveā - appealing to personās circumstances -Ā āOf course you think that way, because youāre in this or that specific circumstance/youāre in this or that specific group/you have this or that specific mindset...ā - while this might (!) explain why a person made an argument, it says nothing about the argument itself.
āpoisoning the wellā - appeal to negative emotions -Ā āEat your lunch. The children in Africa are starving, and you donāt eat upā,Ā āYes, but science also brought us the h-bombā, āScientists were wrong so often before...ā,Ā āI wonāt listen to him. Heās an alcoholicā, ...Ā
āguilt by associationā -Ā also an appeal to negative emotions and/or motive. It applies when a person expresses a view similar to someone who is viewed negatively. So this person and their viewpoint will be viewed negatively as well. āYeah, but he was in prisonā,Ā āHe is a Communistā, ...Ā
āad feminamā - specifically addressing women, or female characteristics - basically:Ā āBecause sheās a womanā,Ā or theĀ āclassicāĀ "Are you on your period?ā
āTu quoqueā -Ā meaningĀ āYou alsoā - often made to point out hypocrisy -Ā āBut you/he/she did that tooā. While pointing out the possible hypocrisy (āYou judge me even though you did it yourselfā,Ā āHey, but John did it tooā) might be legit but it still is not an argument against the point made. Just because someone did itĀ āalsoā can not be an argument.Ā āBut you smoke as wellā is not an argument against the hazards of smoking someone pointed out. A variant of the ātu quoqueā is what is known as āWhataboutismā (āYeah... but what about XYZ....ā to distract from the original topic... āBUT HER EMAILS!ā)
the ācredentials fallacyāĀ is a bit tricky. It is based on the idea that if a person doesnāt have formal credentials in a certain field, any argument they make about this topic can immediately be dismissed. Which, of course, is dishonest but still this is a rampant logical fallacy in the academics world.Ā
The thing though is: While - for example - itās most certainly not a good idea to let someone with no medical credentials and training at all do surgery on you, arguments can be and should be verified. It is a good idea to question peopleās motives and also their credentials, and to be even more cautious with people who have no credentials, but the legitimacy of anĀ argument has nothing whatsoever to do with _who_ expressed it.
Like in all other cases before, it has to be about the argument itself and not about people. Just because someone doesnāt have a PhD or holds an academic chair doesnāt make their arguments invalid.
The assumption that a lack of credentials is a valid reason to assume a person is necessarily wrong and so their arguments can be dismissed is fallacious and dishonest. An argument has to be treated isolated from the person who stated it. A good argument withstands scrutiny. No matter who made the argument. And dismissing an argument because a certain person made it, is dishonest.
I used to sneer at people who said:Ā āI am an atheist because I read the Bibleā
And then I did it: I read the Bible. Without theĀ āhelpā of literature thatĀ āexplainedā what the texts in the Bible allegedly mean. And then I stopped sneering. And I became an Atheist.Ā
Do it! Itās a healthy thing. Especially when youāre struggling with your belief. Actually read the Bible! And only the Bible. No āexplanationsā.
Itās pretty simple: If you donāt understand the Bible without the help of āexplanatory literatureā, or if youāre appalled by all the violence and atrocity thatās in this book, thatĀ āneedsā people or literature to āexplainā how this is āmoralā, then you seriously need to think about the following:
If the Bible is Godās true and inspired word that he gave us humans as a guideline, and it doesnāt make any fucking sense by itself, then this can only mean of three things:
1) Either God is a pretty incompetent author. 2) The Bible isnāt for us. 3) Itās not Godās word but a book filled with mythical stories like all the other books filled with mythical stories.
The Thing about leaving the Jehovas Witnesses after beeing born and raised in it is how everybody pretents you had a choice.
Its how everybody pushed you forwards to doing everything you can, to go from door to door to talk to stangers about a high control cult you didnāt fully believed in yourself yet. How they made you go to these meetings three times a week where they burned the thoughts into your brain that this is the only right thing and everything āworldlyā was bad and evil.
How they frown upon you and the elders talk to you for accidentaly singing a christmas song you heard or for not paying attention at the meetings. How they completely screwed up your definition of right and wrong on the basis of a manipulated believe.
This and so much more before youāre even a teenager. Before you even understand the word brainwashing, it had happened to you.
And then, when you are lucky enough to stumble upon something that made you question this whole thing, its your fault. Its Satans fault. Its the fault of this world. And as ridiculous as it sounds, it scares you to your core.
And when it finally happens and you decide to leave, the only truly own choice you ever had in this cult, you are blamed for making the wrong choice. Because questioning āgodā is wrong. It makes you the evil one.
And once youāre out, you should feel happy but youāre not. You are scared. You are angry. You are hurt and confused. Because now you have to try to live the live that has been taken from you for the last 20 years.
And sometimes I wish I could stop this cult from ever doing this to another child again.
Hi! Baptized JW here. I'm PIMI, but I feel so emotionally out and uninvested. Like, my parents and I are in different language congregations. I moved out of their foreign language congregation but I still visit. I absolutely enjoy my congregation but I am getting emotionally isolated and burned out for some reason. Glad to know I'm not alone in feeling isolated.
Same as in the last ask: I am terribly sorry that I didnāt see this. Please excuse my delay of answering.
Thank you very much for reaching out. No, you are not alone. Absolutely not. No matter if you believe in the Bible, in (some of) the WT teachings, or not. Know that you are not alone with your struggles.
Let me be straightforward: Since youāre PIMI, please know that I will not - in no way - try to convince or persuade you of anything. I am aware that it must have been hard for you to even get in contact with anĀ āApostateā like I am one. And that you even might feel scared and afraid. So, again: I will not try to drag you to the ādark sideā ;) - even though we have cookies ;PJoking aside: All I can do and all I want to do, is to encourage you to look at counter-arguments. If something is true andĀ āthe truthā then it will withstand scrutiny. It is as simple as that. So, there is no need to be afraid to look at counter-arguments. And - even more importantly - to ask questions.
I know that many of us POMOs are often very direct and in some cases even come across as āaggressiveā.My dad once made a pretty good analogy: If you take a metal spring and squeeze it together really hard and then suddenly release it, what will happen?All the tension and pressure that you put on it will immediatelyĀ āexplodeā. And that is what happened to many of us.All the tension and pressure - not only put on us by the WT doctrines - but especially through the way we tried to āsqueezeā ourselves into the whole structure of the organization to fit it, all the fears and the feelings of inadequacy⦠all that is suddenly gone. And some of us became angry (I certainly did) when we saw what exactly the Watchtower did and does. So⦠please be a bit patient with us ;) And donāt be afraid.
It totally feel you about enjoying the congregation. I miss some of theĀ ābrothersā andĀ āsistersā. There was this oneĀ ābrotherā who was sort of myĀ āuncleā. He was a really pleasant person. There are others that I donāt miss that much. Because I neverĀ āconnectedā.So⦠the unity that was there⦠thatās really something great. But it is not as unique and special as I was told. You can find groups of people with the same interests everywhere. Clubs, societies, interest groups. I have friends all over the world. And they are friends with me. And _not_ friends with my religious opinions. And I personally feel that this is much more valuable.I have friends - real friends, people who care for me as a person - who are polar opposites to my personal opinions.Ā
For example: I am liberal, leftist agnostic atheist. One of my best friends is an ultra-conservative gnostic Christian. Of course weĀ āfightā over these issues. But we totally care for each other. And we help each other as good as ever possible.
When I moved to a new apartment, I had 18 people helping me. 18! None of them got paid. One of them I never saw before in my life, he was a friend of a friends and just helped carrying heavy furniture becauseĀ āthatās what we do as human beings - we help each otherā⦠and none of them was in any way interested in my religion.
Some years ago, when I was going through a really dark phase in my life, I had people checking up on me, helping me. Because they like me. They were not interested in my faith. On the other side, while I was stillĀ āinā and my mom passed, all I got was a visit by a CO and two elders, who read some Bible passages⦠Donāt get me wrong: I do not say and I will not say that theĀ ābrothersā andĀ āsistersā in your congregation are not serious and are just faking it. Not at all. I am totally convinced that they really mean it. Because they are also human beings. I am sure that those, who are in closer contact with you, that they really like you.The question though is: Will they act upon their affection towards you, will they still like you, help you, support you, you in case you change your opinion on matters concerning your belief? Have you ever asked yourself whether theseĀ ābrothersā andĀ āsistersā will stop liking you if you doĀ āthisā orĀ āthatā?
In case they do change and in case you asked yourself this question⦠Donāt you think it is legit to ask whetherĀ this is the āreal loveā that Jehovahās Witnesses say they have amidst theirĀ ābothersā andĀ āsistersā. Your worth and value to be loved and supported⦠is it based on what you believe or not believe? Or based on how you treat other people?I know that as long do my best to be a good person, not harm anyone, and act at least a bit decently ;) I will have real friends that go with me through thick and thin. Something that the Watchtower denies is possible outside. BecauseĀ āreal loveā is only possible within the Organization.Ā I know otherwise. And I know it from experience. I HAVE thatā¦
Take care, Anon! And please, please, please never let anyone keep you from making your own picture of things.Ā
Iāll say it again: The truth - the real truth - will withstand scrutiny. So there is nothing to be afraid of. No matter if you believe the Bible is Godās word or not.Fact is: The Watchtower does not teach whatās in the Bible. The Watchtower teaches their interpretation of what they say is in the Bible. And that is a HUGE difference.Whether you believe their teachings are true or not true⦠whether you even believe that the Bible is true or not true⦠that is upon you to decide. And itās your own responsibility for your own life.And it was upon me to decide for my own life. And so I did research. Now I do have arguments that are solid and based on evidence. What more can I wish for?
Congrats on leaving!!!!! I donāt know how long itās been, but I know it can be hard. Together, we can help as many JWs realise the watchtower is lying to us.
WHY DIDNāT I GET A NOTIFICATION? I am so sorry that I didnāt see this. I didnāt post or reblog a lot in the last weeks, but I checked the blog frequently. There was no indication for this ask. I am really sorry.
And thank you so very much! Yes, itās not easy. Every person has their own struggles. And all are different. But all are valid.I was fortunate that I had (and still have) large parts of my family behind me. I cannot even imagine how terribly hard it must be for those who woke and have to face their family who is stillĀ āinā.Ā
And yes, we can and should help those who struggle. That is - at least as I see it - our duty as human-beings.
It gets easier over time. For me certainly the hardest struggles were those with getting rid of all the guilt and fears.This:Ā āWhat if that Watchtower is right and I just donāt see it? Or want to see it?ā That was the toughest bit. And the only way was toĀ āface the fearā and do research.The thing about research - and that is what I can promise - the more you read, and learn, the clearer it will become what an incredible sham the Watchtower is.
There is literally NOTHING behind it. Itās all smoke and mirrors and make-believe. Held together by statements that are not to be doubted or scrutinized.
If you learn the basics of critical thinking though and apply those, you can easily dismantle all the tricks and the cons that we fell for while they kept us uninformed.
And keeping people uninformed is actually the biggest weapon the WT has, next to fear and gaslighting.
scum part 4
you have free will, only use it how god wants you to
āMisuse of free willā?! Really?!
Oh, wow! I need to let this sink in:Ā āMisuse of free willā
TW: CHILD HOOD SEXUAL ABUSE proceed with caution.Ā
Hello, itās Mod Skye. I havenāt really told my story anywhere yet. Honestly for a very long time I thought it wasnātĀ āgoodā enough to tell. Iām not disfellowshipped, no one (in my family at least) is shunning me. I didnāt realize until making this video, actually, how much it hurt me. How much this religion compounded my trauma. and just made everything that much worse. My sexual trauma played into my religious trauma and itās made a fine mess of it all.Ā
So, this is my story. I really donāt feel like typing it out in addition to the video, to be honest the video was emotionally taxing enough, and I honestly think I said it better than any time I tried to type it out. This isnāt everything that happened that pulled me out. There were a little of little things, too, like becoming involved with the LGBT community as an ally before my Gay Panic, and becoming involved with feminism, but these are the main points.Ā
I hope you all take the time to watch, and, if it helps somebody than Iām glad.Ā
-Mod Skye.Ā
Group of Jehovah's Witnesses believed Great Tribulation had happened
āThey thought it was Armageddon and wanted to save their neighbours.
They believed police were monsters. They showed super strength after being pepper sprayed and Tasered.
And all but one of them were naked because, with the end of the world, they didn't have time to get dressed.
A court document has provided more details in a bizarre naked kidnapping case that happened last year south of Edmonton, but some questions remain.ā
155 votes and 32 comments so far on Reddit
A post made on r/exjw applying this articleĀ on gaslighting by Psychology Today on the jw organization.
the first time i opened up to a friend after waking up, i mentioned that i had always felt like i was the problem for not feeling a connection to the religion and feeling so isolated within it. i never realized until reading this how not just that feeling, but that particular phrase itself was so cleverly ingrained into our minds
my friend immediately said āno wayā and told me i wasnāt the problem, and that i deserved to find my own truth and be comfortable with my place in the world. it felt like the first time anyone had ever said something like that to me, instead of telling me what more i could and should be doing, and it was a genuine comfort
Hereās my new vid! This one is short and is a little more relevant to the āgrowing up a Jehovahās Witnessā experience. Enjoy š
Congrats on the channel and GREAT video! Currently watching