Leopold and Loeb

Connected to the site: https://loebandleopold.wordpress.com/

[loebleopoldwp]

To all of the insane, angry, abusive depictions of Loeb in fiction, I present quotes from the psych reports:

"He is rather even-tempered and shows no superficial evidence of repressed emotions, no special irritabilities."

"His manner was extremely polite and courteous."

"He is affable, polite and shows a habitual kind of refinement."

"At home [he was] quiet and rather affectionate, extremely polite and respectful.

[loebleopoldwp]

A perfect example of the fictional abusive Loebs I'm talking about: the new Shanghai production of Thrill Me is selling merch, including an acrylic Loeb with his arm on a spinner, so you can pull a string and make him punch Leopold over and over.

[loebleopoldwp]

Hello!!

I just remembered the Loeb locking Leopold in his car and driving off with him thing

Do you happen to know why he did that?

Nope! All I know is Leopold's account of it to Crowe before he confessed: "I was sitting in Dick's automobile out at school, and against my will he took me down to his house in the automobile and refused to let me get out; false imprisonment, it was."

Loeb was likely about this too, but that doesn't seem to have been recorded.

[loebleopoldwp]

Hey, this might be a bit random and maybe a slightly obvious question

Did the two share a room when they were in Charlevoix?

I don't know about all the time, but at least some of the time yes. In the summer it was common practice for Loeb and friends to sleep on a screened in sleeping porch at the children's end of the house when it was hot. That's where he and Leopold were walked in on in 1921. During visits at other times of the year I don't know what the sleeping arrangements were.

[loebleopoldwp]

In your professional opinion, do you think it would be in bad taste to go to a fancy dress party dressed as Leopold and Loeb as a couples costume? If not, which would be the better costumes: Leopold and Loeb circa 1924, or Leopold in a Hawaiian shirt with a fake belly and a bald cap and Loeb in tan booty short and a torn bloody shirt? The theme of the fancy dress party is controversial figures from American history.

Oh my gosh, first off, great party theme. And I don't think it's in bad taste at all, it fits in perfectly with the theme. I'd say 1920s Leopold and Loeb would be more classic, but you run the risk of just looking like guys in suits. Leopold and Loeb as they looked at the time they died seems more creative, and since people probably won't recognize the costumes anyway, why not have fun with it?

[loebleopoldwp]

To all of the insane, angry, abusive depictions of Loeb in fiction, I present quotes from the psych reports:

"He is rather even-tempered and shows no superficial evidence of repressed emotions, no special irritabilities."

"His manner was extremely polite and courteous."

"He is affable, polite and shows a habitual kind of refinement."

"At home [he was] quiet and rather affectionate, extremely polite and respectful.

[loebleopoldwp]

I've been going through some psych reports I'll be posting in full on the blog soon, but this quote has really gotten to me.

[Loeb] "is much pleased over the fact that he knows more about the details of the events connected with the Franks case than anyone has been able to find out."

Even with how much these two confessed to, it does drive me crazy that there are these teases that no one will ever know the full story because Loeb loved withholding information so he could feel smart.

[loebleopoldwp]

Anon that asked about the prosecutor here again!

I fear I don’t know what year it was but the prosecutor seemed to be called McCabe

Ah! Yeah, William McCabe was pretty vocally skeptical of Day's story from the beginning, here's a Chicago Tribune quote from him from January 31, 1936: “I disbelieve Day’s story almost in its entirety. What he says of Loeb’s morality is directly opposed to all that was known of Loeb.”

He questioned prisoners such as Loeb's current cell mate, and prison employees like Father Weir to get the information that led him to that conclusion. He also cites Loeb's wounds, like that Loeb's throat was cut from behind and that Loeb tried to grab/block the razor with both of his hands. He saw Loeb's body and talked to a lot of people involved in the case, so that's where his information came from.

[loebleopoldwp]

Hello there :D

I saw something about a prosecuted in the James Day case saying that he doesn’t believe what Day says and that he recently good information that makes him certain it wasn’t self defense

Do you maybe happen to know what information he was talking about or maybe whom he got it from?

I'd need more information to look into this. The name of the prosecutor and if it was said in 1936 or years later?

I'm not sure about what to say here because the prosecution team didn't ever believe Day's story, that's reflected very clearly in the court case, that's why they were trying to find him guilty.

[loebleopoldwp]

Hi!

I found a snippet from an article from the Chicago American (4th of August 1924) quoted in a post

A part of the snippet said “jail life interspersed with puns a la Loeb”

Was Loeb like, known for puns or anything? Or is it another case of things unknown à la Loeb?

I've gone through all the reporter conversations I took notes on, including the one from that day, and I can't find any reports of Loeb saying puns. I guess he did, since the reporter said that, but I haven't seen any recorded.

[loebleopoldwp]

I don't know how to say it, but Loeb doesn't look like he's from his time at all. He looks modern—his photos could pass for today. Ive always felt like he belongs to some other era, and maybe that's part of what made him suicidal. Leopold, though? He absolutely looks like a product of his century.

Thank you for your thoughts!

[loebleopoldwp]

Hi, I was hoping you could tell me what the dark discoloration on Leopold's fingers was?

Nicotine stains from smoking.

[loebleopoldwp]

Hello!!

In the Hulbert bowman report they described the things Leopold drew in his notebooks

Are there any pictures of that??

No, sadly not! And I haven't found any drawings he did after that either.

[loebleopoldwp]

Hey!!

I‘m not quite sure who said it but I remember someone describing Leopold as being very passionate and “almost raping” Loeb

Was that “almost raping” part ever elaborated on????

Nope, it was never explained. Here's the quote, from the trial transcripts:

"The whole thing is an absurd situation because there is nothing but just putting his penis between this fellow’s legs and getting that sort of a thrill. He says he gets a thrill out of anticipating it. Loeb would pretend to be drunk, then this fellow would undress him and then he would almost rape him and would be furiously passionate at the time, whereas with women he does not get the same thrill and passion.

That is what he tells me. And of the other part, of course, Loeb tells me himself. That is exactly what they did, and how he feigns sometimes to be drunk, in order that he should have his aid in carrying out his criminalistic ideas. That is what Leopold gets out of it, and that is what Loeb gets out of it."

[loebleopoldwp]

Hi!!

I just remembered that the Hulbert-Bowman report said something about Loeb and dermographia

Do you know if that is the only mention of it or if it was also mentioned somewhere else?

I'm glad you brought this up because I paid absolutely no attention to it. There isn't more information that I've seen other than in the psych reports, but both Leopold and Loeb's reports have that.

For Leopold: Dermographia: Red line.

For Loeb: Dermographia red line with white border

Interesting that they apparantly both had it.

[loebleopoldwp]

Would you say fiction based on Leopold and Loeb played a role in the popularity of the Dark Academia genre? I know The Secret History was one of the most influential books in that genre and, I would assume, things like Rope are natural forebears. I don't know a ton about the genre, but from what I know, it seems the pop culture idea of Leopold and Loeb (wealthy, intellectual, educated, cultured murderers) would fit right in.

Other than the slight connection to a couple dark academia works (Secret History and These Violent Delights) I don't actually think so. Because dark academia started more as an aesthetic before it was a literary trend, and the photos we have of Leopold and Loeb don't usually fit that aesthetic. Then when the literary trend began, authors who were interested in Leopold and Loeb didn't seem to be very interested in the education or college side of them, and dark academia authors didn't seem very interested in Leopold-Loeb.

I think there absolutely could be a great dark academia adaptation of them, exploring their wealth, their ability to put on a charming veneer over what was actually very weird, criminal behavior, and them being very immersed in extremely beautiful universities and, for Leopold, intellectual extracurricular activities and discussing philosophy. The elements are there, but I don't think there's been too much overlap yet.

[loebleopoldwp]

Hi, sorry to bother you, but I was hoping you could tell me what the signs were besides having baby teeth that made the doctors or psychiatrists conclude that Dick hadn't finished puberty and what they concluded was the cause of that?

The baby teeth shouldn't have been used an example of that, that has nothing to do with puberty, he just didn't have certain adult teeth to push his baby teeth out. I have the same thing, it's a case sometimes that some adult teeth just don't exist no matter how old you get.

As for the other reasons, it was that he didn't have much facial or body hair, a low sex drive and had "the rounded hips of a girl his age." They also say that his "secondary sex characteristics not well developed," I don't know what else, if anything, that encapsulates.

[loebleopoldwp]

I recently watched your interview with Murder Made Fiction. It was really good! At the end, you make a joke about Ryan Murphy covering Leopold and Loeb. I've not watched much of his stuff, but it is strange he hasn't covered them yet. My understanding is that he likes true crime and he likes things relating to homosexuality, so surely Leopold and Loeb would be a natural pick? I guess they aren't quite as mainstream as Jeffrey Dahmer and Ed Gein.

Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it!

Yeah, I assume the lack of mainstream appeal is why he hasn't covered them in some capacity yet. Dahmer, Gein, the Menendez Brothers, O J Simpson, Lizzie Borden, those people are all a lot more well known. The only lesser known (to me at least) case he's done has been the murderer of Gianni Versace, but even that was a lot more recent than Leopold-Loeb.

I don't think Ryan Murphy covering the case would be good quality or anything, but it would be really cool to see it pushed to mainstream attention and get a lot of people talking about it.