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#extradirty

titsay
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roma★
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Cosimo Galluzzi

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@luminousrabbittt
A gaggle of ghosts 🪦
I think a lot of folks in indie RPG spaces misunderstand what's going on when people who've only ever played Dungeons & Dragons claim that indie RPGs are categorically "too complicated". Yes, it's sometimes the case that they're making the unjustified assumption that all games are as complicated as Dungeons & Dragons and shying away from the possibility of having to brave a steep learning cure a second time, but that's not the whole picture.
A big part of it is that there's a substantial chunk of the D&D fandom – not a majority by any means, but certainly a very significant minority – who are into D&D because they like its vibes or they enjoy its default setting or whatever, but they have no interest in actually playing the kind of game that D&D is... so they don't.
Oh, they'll show up at your table, and if you're very lucky they might even provide their own character sheet (though whether it adheres to the character creation guidelines is anyone's guess!), but their actual engagement with the process of play consists of dicking around until the GM tells them to roll some dice, then reporting what number they rolled and letting the GM figure out what that means.
Basically, they're putting the GM in the position of acting as their personal assistant, onto whom they can offload any parts of the process of play that they're not interested in – and for some players, that's essentially everything except the physical act of rolling the dice, made possible by the fact most of D&D's mechanics are either GM-facing or amenable to being treated as such.*
Now, let's take this player and present them with a game whose design is informed by a culture of play where mechanics are strongly player facing, often to the extent that the GM doesn't need to familiarise themselves with the players' character sheets and never rolls any dice, and... well, you can see where the wires get crossed, right?
And the worst part is that it's not these players' fault – not really. Heck, it's not even a problem with D&D as a system. The problem is D&D's marketing-decreed position as a universal entry-level game means that neither the text nor the culture of play are ever allowed to admit that it might be a bad fit for any player, so total disengagement from the processes of play has to be framed as a personal preference and not a sign of basic incompatibility between the kind of game a player wants to be playing and the kind of game they're actually playing.
(Of course, from the GM's perspective, having even one player who expects you to do all the work represents a huge increase to the GM's workload, let alone a whole group full of them – but we can't admit that, either, so we're left with a culture of play whose received wisdom holds that it's just normal for GMs to be constantly riding the ragged edge of creative burnout. Fun!)
* Which, to be clear, is not a flaw in itself; a rules-heavy game ideally needs a mechanism for introducing its processes of play gradually.
The point is, as a game designer, you are never going to win over the all-indie-games-are-too-complicated crowd by explaining how simple your player-facing rules are and how seamlessly they support the narrative, because their experience of playing Dungeons & Dragons is that they can simply opt out of engaging with any player-facing part of the game they don't care for, up to and including opting out of everything and making the GM do all the work, and they're coming from a culture of play which has a vested interest in treating this as a valid preference. It doesn't matter how light your rules are, you're not going to beat an expected level of engagement of zero!
Wow I never looked at it this way even though I have known quite a few of these coasting players over the years. Hell I've been that player when I realized that my inability to engage with DnD3.5's rules enough meant that any character build I'd come with myself would always be overshadowed by the hardcore power players in the group.
There are definitely a lot of those sorts of players out there who can be reached by simple player-facing mechanics because they want to engage with the rules but can't. I was one of them.
To be clear this is not a rebuttal. OP never said or implied this is not the case. The takeaway is that you shouldn't be surprised to find players out there will never be interested in juggling even nicely streamlined systems for themselves.
Oh, absolutely. I'm not saying that D&D players who are unengaged at the table because the rules are too complicated or too GM-facing for their liking and would do better with a system whose mechanics are more streamlined and player-facing don't exist. I'm saying that the Venn diagram of those players and players who regard all indie games as too complicated has very little overlap. If, as a designer, you're trying to appeal to the former by addressing the criticisms of the latter, you have misidentified your target audience.
(The same goes for indie game advocacy in general. "Play another game" is a snappy sound bite, but no advocacy that's rooted in talking about the structure of a game – mechanical, narrative, or otherwise – is going to be persuasive to a player who has no interest in engaging with that structure. To them that's all "GM stuff", and therefore nothing to do with them.)
Pretty sure the point of this post that the game *doesn't* actually support these players, but people have convinced themselves it does because the 5e community has developed a play culture so invested in the idea that D&D is a game for everyone that they are extremely reluctant to consider the idea that it might just not be the right game for players like these (or any other type of player), and this play culture coerces GMs into accomodating these payers by essentially playing the game for them; and touting this as a strength of the game just normalizes a play culture where GMs overworking themselves by shouldering the mental load of the game for these players is an expected part of the experience.
the result here also being that people feel like they're just chilling playing a video game with their friends, when actually the effect is more like. denethor making pippin sing for him, because they've turned one of their friends into The Human Computer (purposefully annoying whom being something DND play culture also kinda takes for granted) - eat another cherry tomato while they do your encounter for you :°
The experience of any ttrpg is always going to be collaborative. If you're not 100% invested in that collaboration, you're forcing your freinds to do work for you and entertain you. Every time a player doesn't care as much about the games as the rest of the party their two fates are to be pushed into the background and go almost unnoticed, or to becone an annoying burden as the rest of the party is forced to do work for them.
christmas isnt about the presents, and it isnt about christ or whatever. its about drawing deer furries in bondage harnesses that have jingle bells all over them. thats what it;s about
thats her son fr.
crying. sobbing even
Hickey!
“Do not be afraid” 👁️👁️👁️
Biblically accurate Hatsune Miku ^^
last witch illustrations I’ll share online!! the rest of the illustrations ill work on just for the artbook!!! Thank you for following this series, hopefully I can make an artbook by this summer!!
here are the others witches 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 , 6, 7, 8
Print Shop
It really says something that a lot of monogamous people consider polyamorous and aromantic to be "opposites" but every polyam person I know took one look at aromantics and said "they're just like me for real"
Poly folks x aro folks in the sense that "alloromantic heterosexual monogamous people view love and sex as an entirely different entity than me, and that makes life kinda strange"
There's so much more.
four trans people walk into a movie theater …
Reminds me of EEAAO.
petal in the machine
@truffleduster x
Playing AI: The Somnium Files for the first time completely blind. It started off feeling like a serious anime noir game, but now I am watching the funny shrimp lady get drunk and yell at skeletons in my brain realm.