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@marvelhasmelike
"Those we grew up with have now grown up", is an especially heartbreaking line because it has a sense of dramatic irony to it. Katya says it because she believes she is stuck in her childhood dominated by the mafia and the violence whereas Sofia and the audience feel that Katya is the one who has had to grow up faster than her peers due to her circumstances. She is both too mature and not mature enough. It is freaking heartbreaking. Probably Marty's best written female character.
I have seen a lot of takes on how Karli is one of the worst villains written and the politics of the show and I wanted to share my view on this. I am open to any support/opposition for my opinion.
From a creative point of view, morally grey villains are fair game and make for more interesting characters. Agatha, Mysterio, Dreykov, Stane, etc. are your by the books shitty people doing shitty things. Karli has a cause that is absolutely support-worthy. But the sad and realistic matter of fact is that she and her community of displaced would have gone unlistened to had they not been violent and drastic in their measures. The institutions (a theme in the show) would have failed her without batting an eyelid.
This is all discounted for by the fact that Karli is a teenager and traumatised.
Violent revolutionaries have always existed and oftentimes their causes align with what is right. Sam agrees and sympathises with this. In fact, Sam even gets Karli to completely agree with him and stop using violent means TILL they are interrupted by Walker. This is what drives Karli completely towards her old ways. After seeing her co-workers die and sacrifice themselves, she doesn't think it wrong to retaliate. Let's not forget the flagsmasher who was shot to death in Episode 2.
I am not blind to the MCU's military favouritism. But I think anyone who has watched FATWS will agree that the show is an open critique on all American Institutions including and especially the military. Isaiah's story, Walker and GRC are examples of this. Of course, the opening fight scene set the wrong tone for the show and is one of my least favourite things about FATWS for how much it glorified US military presence over foreign countries but the rest of the series directly contradicts this.
Lots of MCU shows/movies are ideologically ambivalent. But FATWS truly attempted to state the world as is. Ultimately Sam's victory was not defeating the Flagsmashers, it is convincing the GRC to not move the displaced irrationally.
I truly think that in a universe where John Walker waited a minute longer, Sam would have helped Karli see the error of her ways and she would have formed alliance with him to push back against the displacement. One cannot complain about not having three-dimensional antagonists and oppose to characters like Karli who are not poorly written but written to be controversial on purpose.
The Falcon and The Winter Soldier is such a great show. It keeps getting compared to and overshadowed by WV and now Loki and while I love WV and Loki looks really promising, FATWS handled so many pressing topics in a nuanced and mature manner while also being fun and fast-paced. The characters were so beautifully done and honestly, I feel like just because it is not wacky or whimsical, it is being swept under the rug.
Idk it just makes me sad to think that Marvel may go back to making safe content that doesn't pick up and explore relevant conversations like it did with FATWS, after seeing the lacklustre fan reaction to the series compared to the other 2. Even the reviews were divisive. Idk man I would rather mainstream stuff do this than make the same, polished, riskless movies again and again.
I definitely agree but I feel like the main theme of Loki is identity and that’s something a lot of people can relate to even if they don’t see themselves in Loki if that makes sense
But for sure TFATWS explores these important real life issues sorta like skam does which I loved
Oh, I, in no way am suggesting that the other two shows don't deserve the love they are rightfully getting. WandaVision's tackling of Grief and Loki's ideas of existentialism and identity are absolutely great when and if done well. I am just saying that TFATWS also deserves just as much praise, which it has not been getting at all.
The Falcon and The Winter Soldier is such a great show. It keeps getting compared to and overshadowed by WV and now Loki and while I love WV and Loki looks really promising, FATWS handled so many pressing topics in a nuanced and mature manner while also being fun and fast-paced. The characters were so beautifully done and honestly, I feel like just because it is not wacky or whimsical, it is being swept under the rug.
Idk it just makes me sad to think that Marvel may go back to making safe content that doesn't pick up and explore relevant conversations like it did with FATWS, after seeing the lacklustre fan reaction to the series compared to the other 2. Even the reviews were divisive. Idk man I would rather mainstream stuff do this than make the same, polished, riskless movies again and again.
If WandaVision and FATWS are anything to go by, Phase 4 of the MCU and particularly, the MCU shows are going to be character-centric intimate stories and I am living for it. It really sets Marvel apart from the other franchises and can't wait to know each character as well as we know Sam, Bucky, Wanda and Vision.
Why are people saying FATWS was a mess and one of the worse MCU projects? Like it is not THE best maybe but imo, it is still Top 10, if not Top 5 depending on my mood. Why are everybody trashing it?
For better or worse, both WandaVision and FATWS had comparably divisive finales and one is rated 89% and the other at around 60%? And critics are saying FATWS was a mess when giving FFH 92% even though we never see Aunt May react to him being Spidey and not much is set up in terms of MJ at all for him to be into her? And the Mysterio speech was so expository? FATWS obviously had flaws (cartoonish government characters, Bucky-Yori resolution being too short, not seeing hoa Sarah gets money though I assumed everybody in Louisiana seem to pay more attention to the Wilsons now so that maybe) but also its highs are literally the highest points of the MCU. The Isaiah storyline, Sam and Bucky's absolutely well-written arcs, Karli being a complicated villain, addressing a lot of real issues with maturity and objectivity, every single scene in Louisiana. That of all the MCU stuff, FATWS is one of the more heavily criticised disappoints me so much because flawed it may be, it also did most of it so right. This feels all the more like how Captain Marvel got a lukewarm response despite it being one of the better and more funky origin movies. I don't know, i just wanted to ramble here to see if people agree or disagree.
I wouldn't take it to heart if I were you. MCU have a diverse range of fans that while most of us praise FATWS for the issues it highlights, some don't have the brain to process all that. Of course we aren't going to win against a bunch of preteen girls who are absolutely giddy over Tom Holland and are more vocal about their love over him (and the movies he's in) to a point where they obsessively curate the ratings.
I agree with you about the movies too. Despite being one of the more popular ones, I've only watched Far From Home on the big screen when it first came out, and not bothered to download it to rewatch it again. Probably bc I'm not as heavily invested in the story, or it just didn't do it for me. There was no instant attraction that pulls me to watch it again. And I am BiG on rewatch. I've lost counts at how many times I've rewatched captain america movies and thor ragnarok, to a point I can quote some of the lines by heart, because those....those are the best of the best.
No, I agree and I don't intend to divide fans. People can like what they want. But Falcon having 4 good episodes and 2 mediocre episodes (3 and 6) and actually going places the MCU hasn't before, I thought that merited more consideration compared to its MCU peers. I am not even gonna talk about movies outside MCU just I am seeing almost universal apathy for this show which just sucks I guess because it is probably THE most relevant MCU show and the one with the best character development (Sam, Walker and to an extent, Bucky) . But yeah, I am not gonna take it to heart and let people enjoy or not like whatever they want to ig.
For better or worse, both WandaVision and FATWS had comparably divisive finales and one is rated 89% and the other at around 60%? And critics are saying FATWS was a mess when giving FFH 92% even though we never see Aunt May react to him being Spidey and not much is set up in terms of MJ at all for him to be into her? And the Mysterio speech was so expository? FATWS obviously had flaws (cartoonish government characters, Bucky-Yori resolution being too short, not seeing hoa Sarah gets money though I assumed everybody in Louisiana seem to pay more attention to the Wilsons now so that maybe) but also its highs are literally the highest points of the MCU. The Isaiah storyline, Sam and Bucky's absolutely well-written arcs, Karli being a complicated villain, addressing a lot of real issues with maturity and objectivity, every single scene in Louisiana. That of all the MCU stuff, FATWS is one of the more heavily criticised disappoints me so much because flawed it may be, it also did most of it so right. This feels all the more like how Captain Marvel got a lukewarm response despite it being one of the better and more funky origin movies. I don't know, i just wanted to ramble here to see if people agree or disagree.
That moment when Sam says 'What is the point of all the pain and suffering if I don't stand up and keep fighting?'and you realise that he is finally accepting the mantle of Captain America is one of the most beautiful moments in the MCU.
The general discourse around Falcon and The Winter Soldier just seems to brand it as Buddy-Cop-Marvel-Action-Adventure and while that is true, I think people are severely underestimating the show. The director and showrunner as well as Feige, Anthony and Sebastian have repeatedly highlighted that this show deals with heavy-handed themes like nationalism, identity, Mental Health issues, and racism and allied politics. I think if WandaVision was innovative in its structure and format, FATWS is going to be groundbreaking and pleasantly surprising. Not to mention, extremely contemporary and relevant.
This is from before the show aired. I love being right
Sam Wilson and Thor Odinson are two of the best written and purest characters in the MCU. The amount of goodness in them is unparallelled by any superpower out there.
Okay but Falcon and the Winter Soldier ABSOLUTELY needs a second season. The name might have to change but Sam as Cap deserves the extended real estate of TV series and not movies. Sam and Bucky's friendship has barely begun and episode 5 genuinely felt like a Captain America show to me. We need more of this. Sam deserves it. Bucky deserves it. The writers and the creators deserve it. FATWS absolutely should NOT be a one off. This season feels barely like the beginning. GIVE IT TO US.
exactly. there's way too much plot that should be tied up, there's too much development left for sam and bucky individually and as partners. we need more seasons.
(but also what do yall think they need to call it since sam is becoming cap a? i feel like they wouldn't call it Captain America and The Winter Soldier since that's already a movie and winterfalcon still has falcon in it. maybe something like Wilson and Barnes ? lmao )
I would love for it to be called Captain America and White Wolf or Captain America and Bucky. Ideally, I'd want it to be called Sam and Bucky but I know Marvel needs to better brand its shows and go with their superhero names. Personally, they could call it A Couple of Guys and I'd watch every episode on the dot. I JUST WANT MORE FATWS😭
Okay but Falcon and the Winter Soldier ABSOLUTELY needs a second season. The name might have to change but Sam as Cap deserves the extended real estate of TV series and not movies. Sam and Bucky's friendship has barely begun and episode 5 genuinely felt like a Captain America show to me. We need more of this. Sam deserves it. Bucky deserves it. The writers and the creators deserve it. FATWS absolutely should NOT be a one off. This season feels barely like the beginning. GIVE IT TO US.
I am still in awe with Falcon and The Winter Soldier's writing. Sam went from being an underrated side character to an undisputable and one of the best main characters seamlessly. The themes are absolutely stellar.
Particularly, when Isaiah and Sam had that conversation - I genuinely thought Sam would go ahead and destroy the shield. I thought that would make the most sense.
But when Sam said, 'What is the point of all that pain and suffering, if I cannot stand up and keep fighting?' - at that moment, I immediately knew that this man IS Captain America and this show IS something special that will change me as a person. I am not black but I am a POC Woman and I felt it on so many levels.
It would not be wrong and would be understandable to not want to represent something that has a history against you. It would be appropriate even. But in a crooked way, this means that the oppressors would have WON. They would have succeeded in making you consign by yourself. You become the means to the end they crave.
Sam Wilson taking up the shield is monumental in a way unparallelled because it means he makes it easy for millions to come (highlighted by the look on his nephew's face). Sam Wilson had to go through the extra struggle of taking up a mantle he KNOWS he deserves just because there was no precedent. In addition to worrying about how that shield is someone else's legacy and seeing it be tarnished in another man's hands, he had to bear the burden of the conflict in regards to race. If he had given it up, nothing would have changed. Every other person following Sam would also have to face an unfair internal conflict in addition to their self-doubt, and other personal issues.
Sam taking up the shield will make it easier for those to come to stand up and take what they deserve. In the future, for another black man, it would be as easy to take up the shield as it was for John Walker. As easy as it was for Steve Rogers. As easy as Bucky thought it would be for Sam. Because there is a Sam Wilson who has done it before them. And if Sam Wilson did it, they also could because Sam Wilson is a righteous and GOOD man. Sam paved the way for others to not have the added weight and burden of having to set an example and instead simply follow his.
Samuel Thomas Wilson is Captain America. This feels right. This is right.
No but what the hell could possibly happen in Epi 5 for us to cry and bawl? Malcolm Spellman, Anthony Mackie, Nate Moore and Henry Jackman all warned us.
Is it gonna be a character-driven episode where Sam and Bucky make a breakthrough in their friendship and make their mind up about the shield?
Sam telling Bucky and us his backstory and his reason behind leaving the shield to rest? A Sam-centric episode where he deems himself, finally, Captain America? Sam and Isaiah having a conversation? An episode fully in Louisiana?
All of the above?
Be still, my heart.
Let's talk about Sam Wilson.
Sam Wilson who immediately empathised with Steve Rogers (whom he knew to be THE Captain America) and asked him about his bed even though it could have been their first and last encounter.
Sam Wilson who took in 2 wanted highly-threatened people and assisted them immediately.
'You don't have to come with me, Sam.'
'I know. When do we start?'
Sam Wilson who spent a year searching for Bucky even though he personally didn't believe he could be saved.
Sam Wilson who stood by his morals and refused to sign the Accords.
Sam Wilson who went with Steve to Peggy's Funeral.
Sam Wilson who asked about Rhodey the first thing when Tony came to him - not about getting him out, not blaming Tony for his imprisonment, asking about Rhodey.
Sam Wilson who calmly, maturedly offered intel about his side the moment Tony admitted to his shortsight, even though they were not that close.
Sam Wilson who went on the run and stuck by his morals.
Sam Wilson who wants to do things right by his sister.
Sam Wilson who texts Bucky, a man he barely knows and who never replied.
Sam Wilson who did what HE felt was right with the shield even though the person he most looks up to believed otherwise.
Sam Wilson who was willing to give Walker a chance.
'Violent revolutionaries aren't good for anybody's causes.'
'Said by the people with resources.'
Sam Wilson who is heartbroken over Sharon and Isaiah.
Sam Wilson who goes on to help and protect without a shield, without a mantle.
Sam Wilson who doesn't need Iconic Hero Moments to prove he is a great hero.
Sam Wilson who is an everyman with empathy and a heart of gold whose every line, every moment, every flight, every flaw is proof enough that he is a good man.
The shield may not deserve Sam Wilson but Sam Wilson deserves the shield.
I have been thinking about FATWS a lot and I want to contribute to the (somewhat lacking) discourse around one of the central themes of the show :-
Bucky knew Steve as Steve before Steve as Captain America. Sam knew Steve initially as Captain America. He may have gotten very close with Steve but he will never know Steve without his moniker. So, for Bucky, Steve makes the shield. The shield is symbolic only of Steve Rogers. Whereas for Sam, it has always been more of a merger. He knows the shield for the icon it is but he also knows the person who made it an icon. Both Bucky and Sam know Steve as both Steve and Captain America but their difference is routed in what they knew him as first. Actually, the only reason Bucky even cares that the shield is passed onto Sam is so that he knows Steve's judgment is not flawed. He hates Walker on sight because to him, only Sam is supposed to hold it because Steve willed it so. It is all about Steve first.
Sam wants to ensure that Steve's Legacy is not impaired and put to good rest by retiring the shield. He knows what symbols can be. He knows what that symbol, divorced from Steve, already is - a symbol of a country that has not always been on his side. Not at all. He goes against Steve's wishes and does what he believes to be the right thing (again, a great testament to his character that will make him a GOOD CAPTAIN AMERICA - he does what HE feels is right even against his direct predecessor, mentor and best friend's wishes) and retires the shield because he thinks the shield should not hold more meaning than what Steve assigned to it. He values the symbol as much as he does Steve and hence is protective of it. Sam and Bucky know that Steve makes the shield. But their execution of that ideal is different due to their differed relationships with Steve.
On the other side, Walker only knows Steve as Captain America. Unlike Sam, he never got to know Steve as Steve. He probably only knows Steve through media reports and news coverage. A hero. A controversial one but a hero. A soldier. He is trying to live up to just that. He knows about the grenades but not the ideals behind Steve's actions. He is trying his best to live upto misguided expectations. Somewhere along the way, he got the idea of Captain America wrong. Walker is not a bad guy, contrary to chats here - he is a conflicted character. (I also think he is excellently written as to show why he feels like a decent dude but also OFF - calling Sam and Bucky wingmen, the sirens just after Sam got profiled, calling Bucky an asset. He doesn't know what he is doing wrong but WE do.)
The entire fulcrum of the series, to me, is : Are the Legacy of the Shield and Legacy of Steve Rogers, one and the same? What makes what? Can they be seperated? Will one tarnish the other? Will one honour the other?
Zemo echoes this when he says symbols take on lives of their own. They overlook the human representing it who are ultimately, naturally, obviously flawed. When did the legacy of Steve Rogers become the legacy of the shield? Shouldn't they be one and the same? How come they are different?
Sharon, another person who knew Steve as himself and Cap, is disillusioned by the cost of protecting a symbol. She did it for Steve but Steve and the symbol failed her. More importantly the symbol, as Steve was on the run as well. She is jaded. She believed in the shield once, twice but she paid for it. The stars and stripes won't stand for her when she stood for it. She thinks it is not worth it. She is angry at Steve and Cap. She believes in neither people nor symbols. Right now, the one offering her help is the person - Sam. Not Captain America.
From the trailers, we are going to see Karli address this too.
I am very nervous but excited for the next 3 episodes because it seems like A LOT has to be covered in a relatively short span. And I genuinely am curious as to the middle ground all these characters or at least the story arrives at - if at all there is one. This series is really make or break depending on the next 3 episodes. It has set up so many excellent questions and ideologies that if it delivers, it will be a very unique and relevant standout entry from marvel and even this genre. Talk about potential waiting to be tapped and exploited justly.
But as of now, the case stands for Sam Wilson to be the most deserving candidate to be Cap. He knows Steve Rogers. He knows Captain America. He is the only one that knows them both equally well together and apart (Bucky knows more of Steve than Cap. Bucky was never in a position enough to see the icon that the shield itself has become.) and he is the only one who can rest Steve's legacy and honour the legacy of the shield. The shield thus will continue to be represented by not a perfect soldier, but a good man. And there is more than one good man in the world. Steve Rogers, Sam Wilson, and more around and more to come.
