Backbone chat 1/29
So, I'm posting this on a sideblog that way any notes won't get in my main blog and my non-SL friends don't need to deal with this. I am not mad, I'm just documenting everything, but if I got my $2k back and they admit they fucked up with this WHOLE PR Crisis, I would not complain.
Let's start with the basics:
TL;DR: Backbone got caught using AI (source: River's Bsky post)
Read more for sanity and not long dash scrolling. Line breaks are because Tumblr hates long form, nothing has been omitted or changed.
This morning I thought I'd be a little catty but the group chat ate my message and the opportunity was missed. Then River was ejected from the group. So I rolled up my sleeves and got to work, deciding to be genuine and ask about it.
[16:09] Skye Winchester: I'm late to this conversation but how much of Backbone's products contain gen AI and why wasn't it disclosed? [16:21] Skye Winchester: (my chat dropped, sorry if this is sent twice/thrice) -- The silence is alarming tbh. There is no ethical gen AI, it all scrapes work by actual humans who are not compensated for it. If there are products using gen AI, they need to be disclosed so people who want to support artists will not be tricked into purchasing them. [16:39] Skye Winchester: I'm taking the silence for what it is. I guess in a world where everything is user created, it's disappointing that such a big vendor would rely on computer generated art that actively steals from actual artists in order to make money, and then go and charge like 5-10$ USD to sell it to unaware consumers. It's disingenuous at best, and exploitative at worst. All AI is a dangerous tool we don't know how to wield yet, and we're slinging stolen art across the metaverse with no consequences.
The response was deader than a doornail and the chat kept crashing. Unsure if this was intentional attempt to 'mute participant' or if the chat really wasn't about my life today (assuming the latter) And then...
Someone sent their weird little AI bot after me at the same time. IMs from non-friends don't work well on Skye cause SL thinks it's a fun little game, so I got two... but but none from the admin.
Let me repeat that: I DID NOT GET ANY IMS FROM AN ADMIN. Anyways, back to the dumpsterfire. The Clowns decided to audition for the circus.
[16:40] ItsIntuitive: How do ya'll like your steak? [16:41] Chrissy Rhiano: medium is the way to go :) [16:41] VolkKoroleva: What happened? O-O [16:41] Houdis Hancroft: medium-rare…ONLY [16:41] BrianA Corleone: medium well is the only right answer [16:41] SangriaKalakaua: I'd have medium well. [16:41] Samson Rowley: waves hi [16:41] BrianA Corleone waves back [16:41] Kirra Ayashi: I agree with Jettt Medium Rare for life lol [16:41] Jett Hancroft (houdis.hancroft): I like my steak like I like my art…hot and stolen! [16:42] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): So I used to be scared of ordering my meat with any pink and I started doing so a couple days ago and LOVE IT. [16:42] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): Medium well <3 [16:42] Oakan Corvinus: Med rare [16:42] LilTasty Pudding: I like how ya'll are glossing over people bring up the concern of gen Ai stealing from creators who actually work hard to make the things they make. This group is unhinged, I'll see my way out. [16:42] Ŝɑɱѕση Ẅɑуηε ℜσωℓεу (samson.rowley): best way to have it right [16:42] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): It really is [16:42] Jett Hancroft (houdis.hancroft): tears for not being heard [16:42] Gemifer Saphir: I like the rainbow effect thats on slices of meat, looks really amazing. [16:43] LeoProspero: its almost like when you order BBQ, if the restaurant puts sauce on everything, its defnitely n ot good. [16:43] Skye Winchester: It's not their art being stolen, they don't know any artists or do art themselves. That's the sad part. [16:43] genemc: Liltasty, it's best you and Sky take that stuff elsewhere [16:43] Dr Sangria NἶօɾŚαnкợƒα-Kalākaua (sangriakalakaua): Steak with a little pink is easier on the digestive system than steak well done, great choice.
[16:43] BrianA Corleone: wait, what? backbone is using AI theft? [16:43] Ƙαтєяιηα Ƙ. Mιѕfιт (volkkoroleva): I am unsure of what happened o-o [16:43] Skye Winchester: Or what, Calvin? Are we a sundown town suddenly? [16:43] Calvin (genemc): I'll get my steak mid-rare at a place that knows how to properly cook… Medium otherwise [16:43] Skye Winchester: I asked how many products Backbone has used Gen AI on since their latest desk thing has it, and why it was not disclosed. [16:44] YuriBloodfang: Unless it can be proven to be AI art, I don't believe people when they scream it. Seen actual artists accused of using AI when they have the STREAM VIDEOS of them creating the work. [16:44] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): I am scared to order rare, I'll have to work up to it [16:44] Calvin (genemc): oh, I won't go rare [16:44] Avery Bae: Rare or medium rare has more flavor imo [16:44] Skye Winchester: It was confirmed to be Gen aI. [16:45] Skye Winchester: By Kiana. [16:45] SufferingFrom Lockjaw: I like my steak blue. [16:45] Calvin (genemc): Let's not feed the trolls [16:45] Riley Amore: You mean still MOOING! lol [16:45] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): Blue? [16:45] Leannan McC. Trevellion (sufferingfrom.lockjaw): Yeps:D [16:45] Skye Winchester: No trolls here, just someone who has spent a lot of money and should be allowed to know what the money bought. [16:45] Leannan McC. Trevellion (sufferingfrom.lockjaw): as my Momma used to say, "Just cut its butt off, wave it at the grill three times, and give it to her." [16:45] Jett Hancroft (houdis.hancroft): cries for Skye [16:46] Avery Għøυł-Bae (avery.bae): You like to make sure it's still walking across the plate lol [16:46] Jett Hancroft (houdis.hancroft): anyway…steak [16:46] Jett Hancroft (houdis.hancroft): delicious [16:46] LesliePlain1: why use AI on it? all I can see that could even be worth the effort is the screeen background [16:46] Jett Hancroft (houdis.hancroft): cries for Skye [16:46] Maple Moose (drakona.lewellen): Can easily see it n the Peek-a-Boo box and the Glitch. Glitch is an older item so they've been at it for a while
[16:46] Skye Winchester: That was where the gen AI was used, Leslie. And looking at some other stuff now seems suspect, so it should be disclosed. [16:47] Neramew: O.o the new gamer zone is the secretlab desk, that's pretty neat [16:47] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): What kind of jam or jelly on ya toast? [16:47] Avery Għøυł-Bae (avery.bae): Blackberry [16:47] RíƖҽყ Sɳσσԃʅҽ-Aɱσɾҽ (riley.amore): Crunchy or Smooth Peanutbutter [16:47] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): CRUNCHY [16:47] RíƖҽყ Sɳσσԃʅҽ-Aɱσɾҽ (riley.amore): hell yea [16:47] Skye Winchester: Changing the subject doesn't stop genuine questions, nor does 'cries for' or threatening us to 'take it elsewhere' [16:48] Atheria Vampurr: boysenberry jam [16:48] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): Oh and mention of the gamer zone set, I love it so much [16:48] Jett Hancroft (houdis.hancroft): more tears…for you know who [16:48] Calvin (genemc): Trolls don't ask genuine questions, they stir the pot for the attention and to cause drama for others…. don't feed 'em [16:48] Leo Prospero (leoprospero): Ai is all over SL now, let it go. [16:48] Nera Ryuka (neramew): I kinda want them to make the standing desk version now for the new release [16:48] Atheria Għøυł-Bae (atheria.vampurr): and smooth peanut butter [16:48] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): feed em jelly [16:49] Skye Winchester: Yes, I paid 2k to get into this group 3 years ago just to troll it now asking about gen ai. [16:49] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): standing desk? Like no seta? [16:49] Nera Ryuka (neramew): Yeee [16:49] Nera Ryuka (neramew): It looks exactly like the magnus desk from secret lab, they have a pro version that rises! [16:49] Leslie Plain (leslieplain1) looks baffled. "yeah, there's a tonne of PD art they could have used that would have taken nothing away from it"
[16:49] Skye Winchester: I'm asking a question and you're all thinking it's funny to troll tells me you don't care and that's fine, but I do. [16:50] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): I think that be cool, I'd love to see animation on the desks alone. [16:50] RíƖҽყ Sɳσσԃʅҽ-Aɱσɾҽ (riley.amore): You are asking the wrong people Skye. [16:50] RíƖҽყ Sɳσσԃʅҽ-Aɱσɾҽ (riley.amore): I love there game sets [16:50] RíƖҽყ Sɳσσԃʅҽ-Aɱσɾҽ (riley.amore): gamer [16:50] Skye Winchester: I am asking in the group, for Backbone, about Backbone products [16:51] Skye Winchester: Whereas y'all are talking about… barbecue to detract from the question. [16:51] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): Me too, they are so lovely [16:51] Avery Għøυł-Bae (avery.bae): You may have better luck going directly to the creator [16:51] RíƖҽყ Sɳσσԃʅҽ-Aɱσɾҽ (riley.amore): ^^^^ [16:51] Calvin (genemc): mmmmm…. BBQ…. I could go for some brisket about now [16:51] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): I'm just a consumer ^-^ [16:51] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): Ooo brisket [16:51] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive) drools like homer [16:51] Skye Winchester: I don't have IMs on from non friends. And it doesn't turn on, call it a silly SL glitch. So messaging is pointless. [16:51] RíƖҽყ Sɳσσԃʅҽ-Aɱσɾҽ (riley.amore): I now want steak and PBJ [16:52] Ŝɑɱѕση Ẅɑуηε ℜσωℓεу (samson.rowley): oh me too [16:52] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): I want another juicy steak [16:52] Avery Għøυł-Bae (avery.bae): Then that sounds like a you problem
[16:52] Calvin (genemc): this weekend would be a good time to smoke something [16:52] commandhat: I logged in late enough that I missed Skye's actual question. What was it? [16:52] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): Lemme get a plate [16:53] Skye Winchester: How many previous backbone products use Gen AI and why wasn't it disclosed? [16:53] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): ion know [16:53] Calvin (genemc): We're customers, stop being a troll [16:53] Skye Winchester: So am I, Calvin [16:54] Skye Winchester: Again, paid 2k 3 years ago and have bought plenty since then [16:54] Katty TopHat: better question, how many creators in SL use it and don't disclose it? Probably most? I mean….I [16:54] Katty TopHat: oops…not sure they need to disclose it [16:54] Caine MacIntyre (commandhat) blinks, tries to think back… [16:54] Tersa Beverly: eh. probably because when it started it wasnt considered the issue it is now by those that dislike it. and really if that kind of thing is problematic for someone, its up to the consumer to check on the things that bother them and if they find a product that doesnt align with their values they are free to go elsewhere [16:54] Leslie Plain (leslieplain1): sigh, gonna have to reconsider buying any more products here, a pity, they do good work [16:54] Jett Hancroft (houdis.hancroft): Look here, Katty! You REALLY care about this! I know you do :p [16:54] Calvin (genemc): Do you go into the grocery store and ask customers where the beef comes from or do you call their corp office? Please stop the drama [16:55] Katty TopHat: lol Jett…mhmm!
Dun dun dun, and then--
As you can see, there is not a single admin/mod in this chat.
[16:55] Skye Winchester: For what? [16:55] Skye Winchester: Jules, answer for what? Asking a question? No one replied except trolls? [16:56] Katty TopHat: I replied…and not a troll.I'm saying I don't see the need for creators to disclose that. Who else discloses it? [16:56] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): I joined the group when it was free some time ago, I think my first purchase was Gamer's Heaven Work Station Set [16:56] Jett Hancroft (houdis.hancroft): cries for the trolls [16:56] Caine MacIntyre (commandhat): IIRC they disclosed they were using AI to complete a few of the features in the Winter skybox, Northern Lights Hideaway. They used AI to generate snow textures, to make the textures on the rezzer for the lights themselves, and to create concept art for the house itself, but the furniture models were hand-made. I think that's the first piece they actually used AI for. [16:56] RíƖҽყ Sɳσσԃʅҽ-Aɱσɾҽ (riley.amore): I couldn't tell you my 1st purchase. I'm an old SL lady. [16:57] Roonani Phade (tersa.beverly): oh i feel that in my soul riley [16:57] Roonani Phade (tersa.beverly): i am ollld [16:57] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): I'm just 4 years in [16:57] Caine MacIntyre (commandhat): Does that help, Skye? [16:58] Roonani Phade (tersa.beverly): oh you're still a baby then nevaeh hahaha
[16:58] Skye Winchester: That would be great if it's true that it was disclosed, that's what I'm genuinely wondering, how many products. [16:58] Roonani Phade (tersa.beverly): it scares the crap out of me that ive been in here for 16 years [16:58] RíƖҽყ Sɳσσԃʅҽ-Aɱσɾҽ (riley.amore): My AV just hit 20 [16:58] Vicious Witch: Skye is right, it was proven to be Gen AI, the creator even admit to it. Then Kiana Writer had the audacity to fling someone out of the group for voicing a concern as well as asking them to fix this and not use the AI anymore. As customers it's our right to decide what we want to support and not to support. Being petty about it won't help the cause. [16:58] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): I am but I will say I feel like I caught on quickly, I love it here [16:58] Skye Winchester: And Jules tried to kick me just now but because my SL is so much fun, I'm still in this chat [16:59] Skye Winchester: And being rude to people who have genuine questions is absolutely ridiculous, y'all, come on. [16:59] Roonani Phade (tersa.beverly): im glad you love it Nevaeh :) honestly i just came back after a hiatus and im re learning and finding new fun places XD [16:59] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): I wonder what sl will be like by the time I hit my double digits [17:00] RíƖҽყ Sɳσσԃʅҽ-Aɱσɾҽ (riley.amore): Hopefully less TP crashed
[17:00] RíƖҽყ Sɳσσԃʅҽ-Aɱσɾҽ (riley.amore): Crashes. [17:00] Atheria Għøυł-Bae (atheria.vampurr): righttttt [17:00] Roonani Phade (tersa.beverly): that will be fun to find out..its crazy how much has changed. [17:01] Roonani Phade (tersa.beverly): ugh i dont think tp issues will ever be fully solved, but at least our shoes arent in our butts anymore [17:01] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): LOL I think I've been experiencing tp crashes lately more than usual [17:01] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): SHOES IN OUR BUTTS? [17:01] Calvin (genemc): yes… even when just logging in [17:01] Roonani Phade (tersa.beverly): yessss it was hilaaarious [17:01] RíƖҽყ Sɳσσԃʅҽ-Aɱσɾҽ (riley.amore): Same, when I log in I have to relog imediatly most times [17:02] Skye Winchester: Alright, who is the actual creator since everyone in this chat lost the plot and I'll go log in my alt and message them since my IMs are wacky [17:02] Calvin (genemc): You've been in SL for 6 years and don't know how to figure that our yourself? [17:03] Roonani Phade (tersa.beverly): we are just moving on from the conversation skye. you said your piece and we have nothing further to add. [17:03] Calvin (genemc) facepalms [17:03] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): big facepalms indeed [17:04] Calvin (genemc): You've been in SL for 6 years and don't know how to figure that our yourself? [17:04] Skye Winchester: Kiana is the creator of the group, and she clearly does not want to deal with any commentary, or Jules. [17:04] Maple Moose (drakona.lewellen): Thankfully for anyone that doesn't want GenAI in the stuff they buy, there are resources for that c:
[17:04] Roonani Phade (tersa.beverly): thats cool maple [17:05] Roonani Phade (tersa.beverly): ugh im trying to remember the name of the chair i bought like 5 years ago. (rummaging…) [17:05] Caine MacIntyre (commandhat): I will add one more thing, then snooze the chat. It's possible to like things without liking the creator. I'l going to continue to buy BackBone regardless of their AI use. That doesn't mean I support their ideals, it just means I like BackBone. I'll vote with my wallet when that tactic doesn't exclude a supermassive majority of the things I otherwise need to survive. [17:06] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): if you bought it in store you can possible check the vendor [17:06] Skye Winchester: And I want to be aware of the items I want to purchase using any sort of AI. Especially at the prices [17:06] Roonani Phade (tersa.beverly): mm good idea nevaeh. i hae too much inventory to remember anything haha [17:07] Katty TopHat: Hey Skye…read the room [17:07] Calvin (genemc): trolls just want attention [17:07] Skye Winchester: I am, it's clear y'all don't care, and that's fine, but I won't be shouted over because you don't care. [17:07] Myka Winchester: Just because she doesn't subscribe to the group mentality shown here, doesn't mean her concerns aren't valid. [17:08] Katty TopHat: and I'm not saying her concerns aren't valid, but to keep saying the same things over and over doesn't change it [17:08] Skye Winchester: The fact that Jules tried to eject me from the group without saying a dang thing and other people being thrown out for voicing their opinion is not reflecting well, and y'all just licking the boots. [17:08] Katty TopHat: smh [17:08] Skye Winchester: People keep asking what my question was, what am I supposed to say "you missed it, sorry" [17:09] Roonani Phade (tersa.beverly): AHA. found the darn chair. its a pouffe. headdesks [17:09] Calvin (genemc): We're customers. Stop trying to stir us up and go have a rational conversation with the right person, if it's that important to you. [17:09] ღ νıҳɛŋ Pнøɛŋıҳ (vixenbelle): Could always block and move on.. its what I do when I find someon annoying or what have you. [17:09] Avery Għøυł-Bae (avery.bae): So I have questions but don't want to keep shit going. [17:09] ღ νıҳɛŋ Pнøɛŋıҳ (vixenbelle): someone* [17:10] Skye Winchester: I thought I was asking the right people, meaning the mods of the group, and there was no reply and I was ready to let the matter drop until I was belittled and told 'best take it elsewhere' like I'm in a sundown town run by racists. [17:11] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): Oh wow [17:11] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): That's wild [17:11] Nevaeh Lockhart (itsintuitive): but anyways Imma have to check that pouffe out [17:12] Calvin (genemc): Pouffe sounds more like a pastry than a chair
Then, just now... as I'm typing this. (I'm still somehow in the chat despite being ejected.)
[18:08] Kiana Writer: Thank you all for your support ♥ We truly appreciate it and apologize for the silence, while we were getting the team together to address the concerns as quickly as we could.
[18:24] Skye Winchester: While ejecting people who were asking genuinely? The Gen AI thing isn't even as wild as the PR crisis you just gave yourself. God speed y'all, you'll need it.
[18:27] Calvin (genemc) facepalms [18:28] Kiana Writer: Instead of reaching out to us Skye, you started this group. That's not ok. The only people ejected were you for group harassment and the person posting chat logs on social media. That's not ok. A simple notecard or IM would have been sufficient. That's all I will say about this to you knowing this will end up screenshotted too.
[18:31] Rain McKenna: I must have Skye blocked, cuz i haven't seen anything, but is this mess REALLY still going on an hour later? [18:31] Skye Winchester: I did not start anything, I asked a question about it after someone else did out of concern, not once did a single admin or mod reach out to me in this chat or this group to address it or tell me to stop. I only got dogpiled on by members of this group. And as for posting chat logs, I'm about to post mine with everything and I don't care, cause group messages are not against TOS. [18:31] Kiana Writer: Nope! Not anymore Rain! We do have a new group gift in the store, have you grabbed that yet? :) [18:31] Skye Winchester: But yeah, good luck. [18:31] Rain McKenna: Thank goodness. <3 Ooooh, nope, I sure will pop right in! [18:32] Kiana Writer: Also excited to announce the new Monthly Mystery Madness Theme: Valentine's Vault! ♥ Pre-orders begin Feb 1st and the boxes will be out on the 10th already to enjoy on time for Valentine's Day! ;)
Ironic Rain McKenna decided to pop her head up when she cost my best friend's estate about $300 USD for squatting on his region after he died and LL still thought it was active even though she was told to pick up her shit and go while I tried to get it shut down but I digress.
Anyways, this is long as hell and I did barely anything but copy and paste it, record has been recorded, do with this as you will!
Update:
Their “response”, being added to the original post
You mean what I genuinely asked you to do?
I am so shocked.
