I think some of you guys are being intentionally dense. I am not saying simply being a Soc is what makes Bob and Randy hard to forgive , I’m saying the things they do as Soc’s shouldn’t be absolved just because they went through some things. I think this whole thing is a case of some over correcting of the theme of the book.
I am not trying to say The Outsiders is all greasers are good, all Socs bad. Obviously that’s not true, and I famously don’t like quite a few greasers so it wouldn’t make sense for me to say that anyway. Ponyboy’s whole big realization involves realizing that Socs are people too, that pain exists on both sides, and that black-and-white thinking is harmful. I’m not arguing against that. I’m arguing against the idea that “they were shaped by their environment” somehow becomes “therefore Bob and Randy should not be judged for anything they did at all.”
Those are not the same argument.
I want to start off by saying Bob and Randy are not innocent little kids who just had bad social conditioning. They are both near adulthood. I think babying them and infantalizing is a big issue in this fandom and I see it the most when talking about the Soc’s. But they actively participated in violence. Bob had already beaten Johnny badly enough that Johnny was so traumatized and started carrying a knife (again, I need to put emphasis. Johnny has literally been beaten and shoved his whole life. Bob managed to hurt and terrifying him SO badly that it literally changed his personality and made him paranoid. Like I need us all to understand how insane that is). Bob and Randy are part of the group (not just a part, either, they’re the ones running the show) where Ponyboy is held under the fountain and nearly drowned (again, extra emphasis. They almost killed a 14 year old boy bc he was seen talking to their girlfriends. One time.) Randy having a realization later does not delete the fact that he was there. It doesn’t delete the fact they they both did sick, cruel things. I’m not saying they’re deplorable monsters and deserve the death penalty, I’m simply saying that these are not simple things we can write off because the book says being a Soc doesn’t make them evil. I’m not saying having money makes you inherently evil, I’m saying the things they did with that money and power were cruel and heartless and they should not be completely written off.
And saying Ponyboy is an unreliable narrator does not erase everything we are shown. Ponyboy actually criticizes greasers… constantly! He talks about Dally being awful. He shows Dally harassing Cherry and Marcia. He talks about stealing, fighting, records, rumbles, the Shepard gang, all of it. The book does not hide greaser violence. So acting like we “only see the bad side of Socs” is just not true. We see both. The difference is that the Socs have money, status, and social protection behind them. It’s not
Hinton’s own official website says a Soc “has money, can get away with just about anything,” while a greaser “lives on the outside and needs to watch his back.” That is the power imbalance of the book. Hinton also said the story came from the real social and class warfare at her high school. So yes, the book is societal, but pretending societal issues are not political is just…blatantly incorrect. Class, power, policing, reputation, poverty, violence, and who gets believed are all political. Why do you think the cops went chasing after Johnny and Pony without any evidence other than the fact soem Soc’s said it was them? Do you think if Johnny reported Bob after he was jumped that the cops would do anything?
Political does not mean the author directly says vote for a candidate. It means the story is engaging with systems of power. For example, the definition of a book being political is literally: “For a book to be political, it must either directly engage with political systems, power dynamics, and societal structures, or inherently reflect the author's worldview, biases, and societal context.” All things very obviosuly in the outsiders, and all things literally used in some people trying to debunk me.
Also, Cherry and Marcia alone disprove the idea that no Socs were capable of seeing greasers as people before Bob died. Cherry talks to Ponyboy, connects with him, and even has a pretty emotional talk with him iirc. It shows that being raised Soc does not remove all personal agency. If Cherry can recognize Ponyboy’s humanity before Bob dies, then Bob and Randy do not get to hide behind “that’s just how they were raised.”
And yes, Randy’s realization matters. I’m not denying that. But realizing violence is pointless does not mean he is suddenly absolved. He still helped create the situation that killed Bob and nearly killed Ponyboy. His guilt and grief make him more human, not automatically innocent. You cant just say in court ‘yo, I realized this isn’t the smartest thing I’ve done’ and no longer go to jail. And let me tell you, if they were greasers? Randy and Bob would’ve been locked up a LONG time ago.
Same with Bob. The book gives him humanity through Cherry and Randy. It shows he was loved. It suggests he had problems at home. Fine. But saying he had problems and he brutally hurt people can both be true. Understanding why someone became harmful is not the same thing as pretending they were not harmful. And if we’re gonna talk about bias, let’s talk about Cherry and Randy’s! Don’t you think, especially after Bob died, they’re gonna want to defend the man they stood by? Especially when more terrible things come out about him? Cherry (iirc) only defends to Pony after Pony mentions Johnny getting jumped. To me, it sounded a little bit like a ‘I know he did terrible things, but I need an excuse for why I’m still with him’. Same with Randy. I’m not saying what they said is false, but if we’re gonna mention bias we also have to talk about theirs too.
And the “Bob and Randy didn’t do anything greasers weren’t also doing” point is weak at best, I’m sorry. First, if Dally or Steve or Two-Bit did the same thing, I would criticize them too. I already criticize Dally, like, a lot. Other characters are also bad sometimes is not a defense. In what world has ‘everyone is doing it’ ever been a reasonable defense? Besides, the Socs are specifically shown entering greaser spaces, jumping them, threatening them, beating Johnny, and nearly drowning Ponyboy. Johnny even says he wishes the Socs would stay on their own side (I can’t REMEBR if this is just in the movie or also in the musical/book, but it’s an important line). The conflict is mutual, of course, but the power behind each side is not equal.
imo, that is the actual nuance. The Outsiders does not say all rich kids are evil and greasers are all saints. But it also does not say everyone is equally guilty so nobody can judge Bob or Randy. It says class hatred dehumanizes people, violence becomes cyclical, and people are still responsible for what they do inside that cycle.
So no, I don’t think disliking Bob or criticizing Randy is not missing the point. The point is not everything is okay in the end. The point is empathy without erasing harm.
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