he/him late 20s
vox is a bottom
real adults are proship
minors go away
insert trans flag
laundry list of illnesses physical and mental
autism and avpd and bipolar oh my
fun fact living in the US and being chronically ill is suffering
For those who don't know, it's Tenna vs Doofenshmirtz in round 5 of the tumblr sexyman contest and they're neck-and-neck! Both candidates have more votes than ANY other candidate in the polls so we want them to TIE so they can BOTH move on to face Gomez Addams TOGETHER! Also, they'll kiss :3
Check the comments and reblogs to see how the votes are looking and help us keep it even!!! As of writing, Doof has a slight lead!
Made some quick sprites for Lightner kids in a Lightner-Darkner swap AU. One version is secret boss-focused and one is main boss-focused, but Tenna and Spamton are always either Kris or Noelle for narrative foils' sakes. It was mostly an exercise in squishing down big old boss designs and making them still recognizable. They're in order of Kris swap > Susie swap > Noelle swap > Berdly swap
Like, canonically. Explanation and evaluation below the read more.
According to the DSM-V, Histrionic Personality Disorder is "a pervasive pattern of excessive emotionality and attention seeking ... as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
Is uncomfortable in situations in which they are not the center of attention
Interaction with others is often characterized by inappropriately sexually seductive or provocative behavior
Displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions
Consistently use physical appearance to draw attention to self
Has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail
Shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion
Is suggestible (ie easily influenced by others or circumstances)
Considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are"
Tenna, in the canon material, meets criteria 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, and 8.
Is uncomfortable in situations in which he is not the center of attention.
People with HPD are often described as "lively and dramatic." They want to be the "life of the party" and their "enthusiasm and apparent openness" make them initially very appealing company. Tenna's game show host persona is a perfect example of this- particularly because he hardly ever drops this persona. Having a way to control the attention of any audience keeps him comfortable.
3. Displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions.
While HPD sufferers tend to be highly emotionally expressive (as stated in criterion 6), their emotions can seem to "be turned off and on too quickly to be deeply felt," leading to accusations of faking feelings to manipulate others. Note that this behavior is generally NOT intentional. HPD sufferers can fall into a habit of playing a role (such as the victim) in relationships with others, but this is something they do without realizing they're doing it.
Tenna might be manipulating the Fun Gang on purpose when he tries to guilt-trip them into playing with him (his life is on the line, after all), but he certainly isn't faking his reaction to Susie's words of encouragement, even though his total 180 shift in mood can feel like whiplash to some people.
4. Consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to himself.
Brightly-colored clothes are one example of this! A nice suit is also a known way to draw attention to oneself. Plus, Tenna can control his size to some extent (he shrinks down to enter the Green Room) but chooses to be full-sized whenever possible.
6. Shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion.
Tenna certainly acts out his emotions very theatrically. This can be a very difficult aspect of HPD as sufferers often have to deal with others having feelings of embarrassment when the HPD sufferer makes a big display of emotion in public. Tenna, being a TV personality and literal TV, seems to be able to fall back on this behavior being expected of him. He's THE Mr. Ant Tenna, being big and drawing attention is his whole shtick! Still though, it seems to isolate him.
7. Is suggestible.
Specifically, the DSM-V states "They may be overly trusting, especially of strong authority figures whom they see as magically solving their problems." Does this describe Tenna's situation with Spamton? Yes, probably. Does it describe his situation with The Roaring Knight? ABSOLUTELY.
8. Considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are.
This is most obvious in his relationship with the Dreemurrs, who he sees as family, but it also may be true of his other relationships. He seems to consider the Weather Duo to be good friends of his, but in the canon material, the only words they ever speak to him on screen are "SHUT UP!!!"
There is a section in the DSM-V called "Associated Features Supporting Diagnosis" which contains a bit of supplementary description. For HPD, it states that sufferers may "seek to control their partner ... on one level, while displaying a marked dependency on them at another level" which seems to be a good description of the core of Tenna's relationship problems with Spamton based on the information we have so far.
In summary, Tenna has HPD. He may have other comorbidities (many personality sufferers do), but this is definitely a diagnosis he meets and I want more people to know it!
The following essay is a description of the background and psychology of a human trafficking serial rapist. The content may be upsetting and/or triggering. Please proceed with caution.
Valentino's Background
We know little of Valentino's life aside from the fact that he was a Floridian of Puerto Rican heritage who died in his 30s or so in the 1970s. He most likely would have gone to a segregated school as a child, but seen segregation made illegal before he was an adult. He would have witnessed the civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s. He was also alive (and an adult) when the US approved of the use of contraceptive pills in 1960, which was a game-changer for sex work in the US. Valentino may or may not have been openly queer in life. He is openly pansexual and has a relatively feminine presentation in modern Hell, but the only picture we've seen of him in the past depicts him in pants and a fedora, so his open queerness might be a more recent development.
We can assume Valentino was a pimp in life. Why else would his Sinner form include a stereotypical pimp jacket literally built into his body? While Valentino may have been a victim of child abuse, as is often true of those with ASPD, he was almost certainly NOT a victim in his adult life. Pimping is not a cycle of violence. People who get into pimping start the practice independently, often as a teenager. They frequently start out as drug dealers.
It is possible Valentino started out as what would have been called a "boy prostitute" in his time: young boys and teenagers, most often runaways, who used independent sex work to get by. Again, this is not typical of pimps, but it is a possibility.
Valentino's ASPD
Valentino most likely meets the diagnostic criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder. The only question, really, is whether he meets the criteria of having had a conduct disorder as a child, but it would fit his personality. Children prone to fits of rage, destruction, and lashing out typically meet the criteria for a conduct disorder, and it's unlikely Valentino developed his behaviors for the first time as an adult. As an adult, Valentino most certainly meets the criteria for ASPD. He broke the law regularly when he was alive, he is deceitful, he is impulsive and fails to plan ahead, he is irritable and aggressive, he has a reckless disregard for the safety of others, and he lacks remorse. That's almost every symptom, and you only need three of them to get the diagnosis.
Based on what we have seen of Valentino, I do not believe he meets the criteria for any other modern mental health diagnosis.
How Valentino Works
As I mentioned previously, pimps often start out as young drug dealers. They begin pimping by convincing their "girlfriends" to sleep with others for money, using either emotional manipulation or the threat of either violence or withholding substances their "girlfriend" is addicted to.
Pimps are sometimes categorized into three "types" based on behavior, but most pimps utilize more than one "type" over time. These types are the CEO Pimp, the Romeo Pimp, and the Gorilla Pimp. Valentino is a Romeo/Gorilla Pimp.
Romeo Pimps convince their victims that they are soulmates. They seduce, romance, and flatter their victims until their victims are thoroughly in love (and often also addicted to their drugs) and will be more susceptible to emotional manipulation.
Valentino, like most Romeo Pimps, slowly becomes a Gorilla Pimp over time. Gorilla Pimps use violence to control their victims. Often, when a Romeo Pimp no longer sees a reason to keep up the act with their victim, they stop pretending to be patient with their victim and begin resorting to extreme violence whenever they are displeased. This is Valentino's behavior pattern. Once he has a victim's soul, he no longer needs to convince them to listen to him, so he uses violence and drugs to get his way.
People often make the mistake of thinking Valentino suffers from uncontrollable rage issues. Valentino demonstrates in season 1 episode 4 that he can, in fact, control his violent impulses. He chooses not to hit Charlie, he waits until he has Angel in private before beating him, and he "punishes" Angel by vindictively making him work through the night. A person who truly cannot control themself is not able to refrain from lashing out physically.
As is true of most violent abusers, even Valentino's loved ones, who he is shown to genuinely care about, are not safe from his violent urges. In season 2 episode 6, Valentino throws a glass at Vox's screen, breaking it. It's treated as a gag and "deserved" because Vox made a racist comment, but the very casual violence of that interaction and non-reaction of Velvette in response to it implies this is not a particularly uncommon occurance. Valentino does not consider Vox one of his victims, Vox almost certainly does not consider himself a victim, and Vox may even fight back when Valentino gets violent in other situations. Still, this serves to reinforce that Valentino is someone who inherently resorts to violence to impose his will on others.
People often like to think Valentino loves Angel Dust in his own twisted way. While abusers can have genuine love for their victims, this is not likely to be the case here. In season 2 episode 8, Valentino fought for Angel as his property, but when the threat of permanent death was on the line, he planned to grab Vox and Velvette and get out of there. Angel was not on his mind.
Angel Dust most definitely loved and trusted Valentino once upon a time. Angel died in 1947, Valentino died in the 1970s. Angel had been a free soul for decades and knew the risks of selling ones soul when he signed the contract with Valentino. It would have taken a lot of effort to convince him to trust someone like that. Valentino offered a life where Angel gets to be openly queer, away from his family, and living with someone who he believes he is experiencing true love with.
Angel Dust is clearly Valentino's favorite. Valentino gave him Fat Nuggets and texts/calls him in a non-abusive way sometimes. But Angel is right to say he is Valentino's favorite toy. He's not a person to Val. Human traffickers see themselves as "dealing in meat." Their victims are not full people to them.
This is going to be VERY long and touch on sensitive subjects so here's a courtesy Read More
Canon vs Fanon
There are several things about Alastor's character that are treated as canon even though they aren't. Some of those statements have been disproven by canon now that two seasons of the show have aired, so we cannot take these statements for fact.
For starters, Alastor was stated to be a Momma's Boy in the pilot era. This could still be true, but Alastor has made no statements referencing his mother in the show.
Common fanon states that Alastor hated his father/killed his father. This is fully fan speculation. Even in the pilot era, this was never canon. It is entirely possible Alastor got along with or never even met his father.
There is a common assumption that Alastor targetted rapists and abusers as a serial killer. This assumption comes from an old statement that Alastor was based on the fictional serial killer Dexter and thus chose his victims based on a "weird moral code." A pre-canon comic depicted Alastor going out of his way to stop a rape and murder the attempted rapist, which led to the assumption that this was his victim profile. That comic is no longer canon, and Alastor's behavior earlier in the comic, where Alastor is set to cursing and stomping just because Vox attempted to casually intimidate him, implies Alastor's characterization is significantly different from canon. Regardless, Alastor's victim profile was never actually specified.
Alastor is confirmed to have been a mixed-race Creole man in life. This, along with Alastor referencing his mother's jambalaya at the end of the pilot, leads many to believe he had a Creole mother and a white father. This is another piece of speculation we have no confirmation for yet.
A final piece of speculation I will mention is the idea that Alastor's mother was a saintly woman. This is an assumption based Alastor's apparent fondness for his mother in the pilot. In reality, Alastor was stated in the pilot-era to believe in corporal punishment. If these two things are true, that would imply Alastor's mother either hit him or took no issue with his father hitting him as punishment, thereby leading Alastor to assume this is simply the correct way to parent. After all, how could his darling mother have done wrong by him?
Alastor as a Criminal
Alastor's behaviors as a serial killer and cannibal were based on Dexter and Hannibal, two of the least realistic serial killers in media. This makes evaluating him problematic for me, someone who has extensively studied real serial killers and forensic psychology, but I'll do my best.
Serial killers can be categorized based on their motivation as either visionaries ("God told me to kill"), mission-oriented killers ("I killed as many homeless folks as I could to get the scum off my streets"), hedonists ("I did it for fun"), and power/control killers. Alastor is a power/control killer. He is motivated by a desire to experience power over others. These killers often go on the hunt whenever frustrations pop up in their life. Killing the people they're actually angry with might get them in trouble, so they take out their anger on a total stranger instead. These killers have a tendency to perform drawn-out torture on their victims to prolong the feeling of having power over another. We didn't see enough of Alastor to determine whether or not this was the case for him, but it seems likely given that his method of making Overlords disappear seems to involve some form of torture, hence the screams.
Actually... Looking back at the footage of Alastor's nasty little murder shack, there are a LOT of environmental details that make no sense no matter how I try to interpret them. I can't draw any conclusions from this. If I try to, it implies Alastor's actions are nonsensical and idiotic, and I have a feeling that's not what they're going for. All we can safely and logically conclude is that Alastor killed both animals and humans. This is generally true of serial killers, who typically start by killing pets or strays at a young age.
Interesting note, Alastor killed animals and has an association with fire. Cruelty to animals and fire-setting are two of the factors of the MacDonald Triad, the third being bed-wetting past the age of five. The MacDonald Triad was initially created with the intent to predict the risk of a child growing up to be a serial violent offender. Many serial killers met at least two of the Triad at a young age. However, it is more accurate to say that these are not predictors of violent behavior but indicators of severe ongoing child abuse. The association with violence is incidental and not sufficiently supported by scientific evidence.
Alastor's Psychology
A diagnosis of Antisocial Personality Disorder requires a person to meet the criteria for a conduct disorder as a child first, so we cannot definitively diagnose Alastor with our current knowledge. However, he does meet all the other criteria for the disorder, with symptoms including breaking the law, deceitfulness, impulsivity ("you want my soul for power? deal!"), irritability or aggressiveness, reckless disregard for the safety of others, consistent irresponsibility as demonstrated by a repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior (that man has not done a single day of actual work at the hotel), and a lack of remorse. This tracks, given that serial killers almost automatically meet the diagnostic criteria for ASPD.
Alastor has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, though his case is not nearly as debilitating as Vox's NPD. Colloquially, Vox might be called a Vulnerable Narcissist and Alastor a Grandiose Narcissist, but these are not official medical terms, they're just proposed labels to indicate one suffers from insecurity underneath the arrogance and the other does not. Alastor does have a grandiose sense of self-importance (insists he's inherently superior to others despite using borrowed power for a century), is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited power, requires excessive admiration (he would prefer to be feared, but if someone doesn't fear him, they had better admire him or they're going to have a problem), has a sense of entitlement ("So you'd better--"), lacks empathy, and has an exceptionally arrogant attitude.
Alastor vs Vox
A number of speculations about Alastor are best made by comparing him to Vox. The primary difference seems to be that Vox is capable of empathy and Alastor is not. Allow me to elaborate.
We see Vox easily changing his behavior to appeal to others. He is capable of understanding people enough to know what motivates them. He doesn't have to sit in a room and meticulously plan out his approaches to the other Overlords, he just knows how to appeal to them. When he wants to be domineering, he puts his hands on peoples' shoulders, but he is never looking at his hands or carefully observing the person he's touching for a reaction. That's because it's second nature to him. It's a subconscious element of his social performance. He doesn't think about it, he just does it.
Meanwhile, Alastor does exactly the opposite. When Alastor puts his hands on someone, it is very deliberate and he is being intentionally and consciously manipulative (or annoying). Alastor's charming behavior is completely calculated and he needs to put thought and energy into keeping his act up. Look at how differently he holds himself when he is alone in his room or alone with Rosie compared to when he is out in public. His smile never drops, and while that may or may not be a choice in his afterlife, it was most definitely a conscious choice when he was alive.
The only reason Alastor is able to manipulate Vox so effectively is that he knows Vox on a deep personal level and they happen to be similar. He even miscalculates because he incorrectly assumed they were more similar than they actually are! He refers to Vox's partners as his "goons" before he's trying to drive a rift between them because he thinks Vox can't possibly care for them as more than pawns. He wouldn't. (Or so he tells himself, anyway. He definitely didn't make the deal just when Niffty was in real trouble to save her or anything, no siree! And even if he did, it's just because she's entertaining!)
He assumes the final battle will be just another scuffle between himself and Vox, the same as always but with more power flowing. He was not expecting Vox to legitimately try to kill him, and he definitely wasn't expecting Vox to be willing to kill himself just to kill Alastor. He doesn't have any cocky one-liner prepared for what may be his final moments because he doesn't know how the hell they got here! He was just having fun and fucking around like he always does, what happened?!
Alastor's Inexplicable Interpersonal Interactions
The way Alastor treats the people closest to him is bizarre, to say the least. We definitely won't touch everything or this would get insanely long.
Let's start by establishing who Alastor cares about: those with power. Husk and Niffty, despite being his thralls, have Overlord-level powers. The only people at the hotel at any point whose power is negligible are Angel Dust, Cherri Bomb, Sir Pentious, and Vaggi. Alastor does not interact with Cherri. Alastor's only interactions with Vaggi are occasional snarking because he thinks making her angry is funny. Alastor does not interact with Sir Pentious after their first proper meeting and he does not care that Sir Pentious died. Alastor does not pay Angel Dust any mind, to the point that he shows no sign of displeasure when he is in the same room as a hypnotized Angel Dust being dolled up by the Vees. He only reacts to Vox evil-laughing, and all he does is roll his eyes in response. He is unbothered.
Alastor only cares about Charlie in regards to how her unutilized power might benefit him. He might admire her strong spirit, but that doesn't mean he has a soft spot for her. For anyone not in-the-know, it was confirmed that s1e5 where Alastor has a Dad-Off with Lucifer over Charlie was literally only because he knew it would piss Lucifer off. He does not feel paternal towards Charlie.
Alastor's behavior towards Lucifer is most likely due to a combination of Alastor's envy of Lucifer's power and his dislike of Lucifer as a representation of all the porcelain-white men born into unearned wealth and power that he detested in life. Lucifer even looks down on Alastor's "kind" (Sinners) the way the men up top did (to POC). And Lucifer is dismissive of him, which he finds infuriating. His teasing with Lucifer is not fun and games. When Lucifer picks at him, he straight-up quits because he can't deal with it any longer when he's already in a bad mood. He may also hate Lucifer personally for giving Heaven the okay for the exterminations, if that has anything to do with why Rosie told him to go into hiding.
Alastor's behavior towards other Overlords is very interesting. It would seem as though he only sees Overlords and their superiors as people. He is bothered when Carmilla doesn't give a shit where he's been. He respects Zestial for some reason, despite knowing he is stronger than Zestial ever was and will ever be. He gets along with Valentino and Velvette easily enough. It's been said that in season 2 content that had to be cut, Alastor was spending lots of the time that he was "held captive" being casually friendly with Velvette and Valentino, just to piss off Vox.
Now we get to the most interesting three: Husk, Niffty, and Vox. We'll start with the thralls.
We have no way of knowing when Husk and Niffty were contracted by Alastor, nor why he chose to keep them alive when he killed so many others. This is some wild speculation, but Alastor may have decided to "keep" Husk because Husk lost that gamble around the time Valentino and Vox teamed up and Alastor wanted a partner-but-not-really too. I only say this because the timeline would be about right. Regardless, Alastor seems to enjoy Husk because Husk responds to his teasing in a way he finds amusing. Alastor treats Husk similarly to how Rosie treats Alastor, so tormenting Husk is probably a reliable way for Alastor to blow off steam.
Niffty... We don't know Niffty's deal. But we know Alastor's fond of her! She's allowed to touch him and he kept her roach crown on his wardrobe. He calls her "dear Niffty" on a note. He saved her from Valentino. I suspect Alastor may think of her as a pet, and I suspect he has an easier time bonding with "pets."
The reason I suspect that has to do with a few things he said to Vox. He called Valentino and Velvette Vox's "goons" and didn't seem to believe Vox could care about them, but when Shok.wav comes out, he taunts Vox by referring to Shok.wav as his "little doggie." He's taunting Vox for being embarrassingly attached to his pet in that moment. For some reason, he thinks Vox doesn't care for the Vees, but he knows Vox adores his shark. I believe this was a result of Alastor's lack of empathy, as mentioned above. He can't imagine caring for percieved "equals," but a pet? That he can understand.
And finally, we have his shit with Vox. Oh boy. What the hell is the deal there? Alastor overestimates his ability to understand Vox, but not by much. He actually understands Vox quite well, and that is because they are so similar.
Regardless of what Alastor says, he was friends with Vox in the past. He called him "pal," he laughed at his joke, he even tolerated Vox touching him. He was relaxed until the offer came. When he rejected Vox, he was intentionally being an asshole and doing it to get a rise out of Vox. When laughing at his offer didn't get Vox pissed, he doubled down to get the reaction he wanted. He knew what he was doing by telling Vox they were never friends while calling him "Vincent." He was saying "I know you thought we were friends and you trusted me and I'm calling you an idiot for ever believing that." Alastor's reaction might have something to do with him suspecting Vox had ulterior motives, or maybe not, we don't have an answer to that yet.
The implication of Alastor walking out of Rosie's and getting his idea while sitting in front of the statue of the Morningstars seems to be that seeing a figure putting their hand on another figure's shoulder reminded him of Vox, and his thoughts spiralled into an idea from there.
On Alastor's wardrobe in s2e4, you can briefly see a pill mic. It's odd that it's on the wardrobe where he keeps the roach crown and seemingly nothing else besides his drink and ash tray. It's also not Alastor's usual style of microphone, being a little past his time. In the very recent print of Alastor playing piano for Box Vox, you can see this microphone on the piano next to the radio. It seems to be a memento from his time with Vox. Alastor's current feelings towards Vox are unclear (very intentionally) but he seems to at least have a fond memento of the "good old days."
Lastly, Alastor's whole gambit in season 2 is just him trusting Vox. He trusts that Vox will not make his situation worse even when he's holding all the power. Vox could have easily given him worse angelic wounds; he knew Vox wouldn't. He trusts that Vox will not fuck up and ruin this whole damn plan. He trusts that Vox will respond to his every provocation. He trusts that Vox is capable of becoming the strongest Sinner. He trusts that Vox will do that one thing he knows Vox is always doing with the shoulders. Then he (incorrectly) trusts Vox to show him a good time once he's free. Alastor only rips off Vox's mechanical bits in their fight. He's prolonging the fight by not injuring Vox's actual body because he loves a good fight! And that's what it is, right? Just another good old fight between ex-not-even-friends. Then the pupper gets involved and Alastor chooses to run instead of fighting it. His staff is still broken at this point, but he was holding his own just fine against Vox's full demon form. Alastor is not scared of dogs, by the way, he just dislikes them, so that's not the reason he didn't even attempt to attack Shok.wav. Alastor looks legitimately afraid for the first time when Shok.wav has a hold of him and Vox has him in his laser's sights. That's not how their fights go. He trusted things to be the same as always.
In the end, he also trusted that Rosie would show up and be willing to fix his staff in exchange for assistance. He really does rely on people being predictable. Lilith is going to fuck up his plans so bad, isn't she?
It's gonna get long and touch on VERY SENSITIVE SUBJECTS so here's a courtesy Read More
As someone whose main special interest is psychology, Vox has always been a fascinating character to me. I'll try not to use too much technical language. First, we'll discuss Vox as a criminal, then as a person, then as a device within the narrative of Hazbin Hotel, then we'll wrap up with some fanon stuff just for fun.
Vox as a Criminal
Unlike Alastor, whose behaviors as a serial killer were initially inspired by fictional serial killer Dexter, Vox's depiction as a serial killer is much more grounded in reality.
Serial killer motivations are generally divided into four categories: visionaries (the rare few who suffer from genuine psychosis), mission-oriented killers (that's your puritans and eugenecists), hedonists (thrill killers, sexually sadistic killers, killing for monetary benefit), and power/control killers (people who kill to fulfill a psychological need to feel in-control). Vox is an interesting example of a power/control killer. Most killers of this type rape and torture their victims as a way of reassuring themselves that they have power over others. In Vox's case, he isn't particularly interested in making his victims suffer, he just wants them dead. What he desires is control over his position in life and his social status, so he kills people he sees as having greater control than him and takes their place.
We don't see much regarding Vox as a cult leader, but we can make a few deductions based on what we see in Brighter. Cult leaders generally come as one of three types of people: genuinely delusional people who gather a small but intensely loyal group of followers, purposefully manipulative leaders who go out of their way to cultivate a following, and people who started creating a following by accident due to their charisma and got carried away when they realized how much power they could wield. Vox seems to be this third type. His initial desire is to be in the spotlight, gaining as much attention and approval as possible. It was only once he had killed two people and gained a fan following that he started seeking positions that would give him power behind the scenes rather than just attention. Vox also seems to fully believe his own words regarding his incredible capabilities when trying to convince the TV network CEO that he should be in charge of the network and when preaching to the crowd after he kills the CEO. It's not uncommon for cult leaders to start out knowing they're scamming people until they live in an echo chamber of their own propaganda for so long they actually start to believe it.
It's very interesting that, as far as we've seen, Vox kept his cult leader activities and his serial killer activities separate. Most cult leaders who are also serial killers either kill their own followers to instill fear in their remaining followers, or they have their followers participate in their murders to reinforce their control and prevent anyone from speaking to authorities for fear of implicating themselves. Vox isn't shown to use either of these tactics, which makes sense for his character, as he seems to want to be loved and envied by others. He isn't a believer of "no such thing as bad publicity" and he would rather people listen to him because they want to rather than because they fear him.
The Psychology of Vox
Let's start by discussing Vox in terms of mental health diagnoses.
Vox is obviously neurodivergent, I don't think it's a stretch to say that. In what way he is neurodivergent, there is some room for argument. First, I'll touch on diagnoses that he may or may not have.
His love of sharks is very autistic special interest-coded, but if he is autistic, he certainly masks well. It's not an unbelievable diagnosis, but there's not much there to suggest it in the current canon material.
It's pretty safe to assume he has ADHD, given that he is a mirror of Charlie who very obviously has ADHD. He jumps on tables, taps his fingers, can't stay seated, and is said to talk excessively. He doesn't seem to have inattentive symptoms, but you don't need to have both hyperactive AND inattentive symptoms for a diagnosis. It's not terribly relevant to his character, just interesting to note.
The interpretation of Vox as having bipolar disorder is a compelling one. Throughout season 2, Vox shows several symptoms of mania. He becomes increasingly irritable, excited, and erratic in his mood and behavior over time, especially after he "captures" Alastor. He is entirely focused on his goal of becoming a god ("increased goal-oriented activity"). His delusions of grandeur become significantly worse, to the point that he declares himself a god and says defeating Alastor is his destiny at the culmination of s2e8. Those are legitimate psychotic delusions if he's speaking literally. Psychosis is a potential symptom of a Bipolar-I manic episode.
Interestingly, a potential diagnosis of bipolar disorder would complicate diagnosing Vox with Antisocial Personality Disorder. Someone can have both ASPD and bipolar disorder, but the antisocial behavior has to be observed outside of manic episodes in that case, and we haven't seen enough of Vox yet to say we've observed him outside of a manic episode. Most serial killers do have ASPD. Even if Vox showed no signs of bipolar disorder, we technically couldn't diagnose him with ASPD yet because an ASPD diagnosis requires a person to meet the criteria for a conduct disorder as a child first. If someone meets all the qualifications for ASPD but never had a conduct disorder as a child, their diagnosis is technically "adult antisocial behavior" rather than ASPD. Vox definitely meets the diagnostic criteria as a human adult. He broke the law, he was (and continues to be) deceitful, he is impulsive (accepting Alastor's deal) and fails to plan properly (we still don't know how he was expecting to get to or defeat Heaven in a practical manner), he can be irritable and aggressive towards others, he has a total disregard for the safety of himself and others, and he lacks remorse for his actions. You only need three of those things to meet the criteria for antisocial behavior.
The one diagnosis we can say he has with 100% certainty and no caveats is Narcissistic Personality Disorder. ASPD and NPD don't always go together, but they can, and it's common for serial killers and cult leaders to have both. The diagnostic criteria for NPD that Vox meets (of which you only need to meet 5 for a diagnosis) are: lack of empathy, envy towards others, exploitative behaviors, a sense of entitlement, an arrogant attitude, demanding excessive admiration, preoccupation with fantasies of power and idealization, and having a grandiose sense of self-importance. Some specific behaviors of his that point towards this condition are his desire to take all the credit for his achievements while disregarding the contributions of others and his obsession with Alastor. People with NPD often think of themselves as special and believe they can only be understood by other special people. Vox's obsession with Alastor seems to suggest that he felt he had finally found an equal in Alastor and that's why the rejection was so crushing to him and why Alastor is still his number-one priority, to the point that he completely loses sight of his larger goal in his desperation to beat Alastor once and for all. It's not at all unheard of for NPD sufferers to neglect friends and loved ones while desperately pursuing the attention of someone they percieve as greater. Notably, this doesn't mean they don't care about their loved ones.
As is true of most disorders, people with NPD and ASPD are generally more of a danger to themselves than others. They tend to engage in more risk-taking behaviors than others. Some research suggests NPD sufferers aren't as high-risk for suicide attempts as some other personality disorder sufferers, but NPD sufferers' suicide attempts have a high lethality rate.
ASPD and NPD are often suspected to be the result of childhood abuse. Most serial killers were abused as children, especially power/control killers. Violent behaviors tend to stem from a need to feel in-control in order to feel safe, which is a common result of being raised in an environment where the people who had control over your life took advantage of that control to make you suffer. NPD as it is presented in Vox is also a sign of unmet emotional needs in childhood. People with NPD were often raised being told they were special, often by emotionally distant parents with high expectations. Children who grow up to become perfectionists were often praised for good results and punished for bad results regardless of their efforts, leading to a belief that if they're not perfect, then they're not good enough. Some NPD sufferers will go to great lengths trying to prove that they're special and superior to others, to the point of self-destruction, because their belief that they are special doesn't relieve them of their feeling that they need to prove it. NPD sufferers like Vox, whose every narcissistic behavior is underlined with insecurity, often live with both a belief that they are better than everyone else and a crippling fear that they might be wrong about that. NPD sufferers who face a narcissistic collapse (an event that challenges their self-image) are at a high risk for suicide.
Childhood abuse can be a cause of poor emotional regulation skills, which can lead to bouts of uncontrollable rage and a high suicide risk. It's also considered an indicator of abuse when an adult exhibits childlike behaviors or mannerisms. Emotional growth tends to be stunted in abused children. The general theory surrounding why this happens is that children who grow up in an abusive environment enter a "survival mode" where their learning tends to focus on how to meet their basic needs and avoid getting hurt, so all the energy that would normally go to maturing, growth, and personal reflection is instead spent learning emergency coping strategies and survival tactics.
People have pointed out that Vox's speech towards Charlie about how she is a pale imitation of her mother and her mother would be disgusted by how much of a failure she is have big "I'm projecting" energy. In addition to that, Vox's statement about Angel's dad ("What did he do, hit you?") is dismissive in a very interesting manner. Like, the only way you could follow up that statement is with something like "So what? Everybody's dad hits them!" or "My dad hit me and I didn't kill him, so what does that say about you?" So yeah, Vox's dad definitely hit him and maybe his mommy called him a failure or something, idk.
Something I find striking about the way Vox's dialogue was handled in seasons 1 and 2 is that Vox is, as far as I can recall, the only character who repeatedly references suicide. He tells Pentious to kill himself in season 1, he tells the angels to kill themselves in season 2, and he says he has a plan that will make Charlie kill herself. References to suicide are a very real sign of suicidal ideation. Speaking from personal experience, I can say you make WAY fewer jokes/references to suicide when it's not something you're kind of considering. The fact that he kept bringing it up was a terrific way of foreshadowing his suicidal behavior in the finale of s2. It had been on his mind the whole time.
Vox's Role in the Narrative
From the beginning, it's been set up that Vox is the Vee that will get the biggest redemption arc. We see very little of him in season 1, but what we see depicts a person who, despite being a powerful narcissist, lowkey hates his life. He has to force on a smile when he talks to the media, then he forces on a smile again for Val- a smile that immediately drops into a glare the moment Val is calm and not looking his way.
Hazbin Hotel's message is supposed to be that anyone can be redeemed. The very realistic caveat is that not everyone will be redeemed. Based on the writing as of season 2, I think the writers are viewing redemption in a very realistic way, which is that nobody is going to seek redemption if it does not benefit them. Why would they? Why fix what ain't broken?
Valentino and Velvette were perfectly happy until the end of season 2. They weren't even immediately on-board with Vox's plan to rule Heaven because they were completely satisfied with their lives. As far as they're concerned, Vox fucked things up for them when everything was already perfect. They have no reason to change.
Vox is a miserable person with severe psychological problems and a plethora of unmet emotional needs. He's a great example of someone who would genuinely be better off if he bettered himself. He is desperate for security, love, and safety. His current behavior completely prevents him from creating the genuine emotional connections he clearly craves. If he didn't want a genuine emotional connection, he wouldn't be trying so hard to get Alastor's approval before he gives up and just tries to kill him. He wants a friend so fucking bad but he gets in his own way due to his toxic behavior and beliefs.
Viv has stated in interviews that Vox has now been humbled, that he will continue to be an important character through the rest of the series, and that his defeat basically requires him to embark on a new character arc. There's a damn good reason they didn't just kill him off when they were done using him as the BBEG. I'm not convinced Vox will end up in Heaven given that he did a whole bunch of murder while alive and then a whole bunch of double-murder at the end of season 2, but he will definitely get a character redemption arc. Just like how Sir Pentious was the perfect example of a Sinner who barely belonged in Hell and Angel Dust is the perfect example of a Sinner who made mistakes but isn't an evil person, Vox is the perfect example of a genuinely evil Sinner who could turn things around but only with the right circumstances and support.
Fun Vox Headcanon Stuff
This is just a little bonus for the fanon stuff: a justification of why the wasian Vox and trans Vox headcanons still jive with the canon as of the end of season 2! Again, not saying these things are canon, just that canon doesn't have to change to make them make sense.
Something that bugged me in season 2 was Vox's racism (technically it was more xenophobia than racism but I don't want to type xenophobia a million times). Not that him being racist was unrealistic, but that the statements he made are stupid given that: 1) he has been dead and living in a place where you can almost never tell what someone's race was by looking at them for 70 years, 2) his three friends in Hell have been a mixed-race man, a hispanic man, and a Black woman, all of whom definitely would not let him get away with saying racist shit without comment, and 3) a cis white man from an all-white area in 1950s america would be way more sexist than he is racist.
To be clear, any white man in an all-white place (we see zero POC in Brighter) in 1950s america is almost certainly a white supremacist. However, their belief in white supremacy almost certainly would take a backseat to their belief in male supremacy. Sure, they think they're better than POC, but those people aren't around. They're not their problem. What really matters is that they have so much more power and brains and charm than all those women-folks they're surrounded by. Male supremacy becomes a WAY bigger part of their identity because they are actually forced to contend with that belief being challenged, so if they're not willing to change that belief, they get plenty of practice justifying and defending it.
The fact that Vox is blatantly offensive towards hispanic folks but his only comments about women consist of using them to seem relatable and progressive and calling Charlie "hysterical" feels off to me. Both the headcanons of him being wasian and trans would make it make sense.
If he's wasian, well, some Asian-American folks are loudly racist towards "lesser" minorities in an attempt to elevate their social standing. Think "I'm like you white people, not like those other guys, they're not as great as us, both of us, both of us who are equal to each other and better than them, right?" And if he's wasian and embarrassed of his heritage and white-passing, that would also make being a loud white supremacist make sense. "White people are the best and I'm totally 100% white and nothing else, I promise!"
If he's trans, then the brand of sexism is easy to interpret as internalized mysogyny and it makes sense that he would align his identity more with white supremacy because that was what he clinged to as an AFAB person. "I keep being told I'm not as good as a man, but at least I'm white so I'm automatically better than SOME men, right?" His behavior towards women is also just... Generally not sexist. He treats them exactly the same as he treats men with small comments being the only exception. Him being trans would make that make sense, because he would be more likely to see men and women as not being very different if he could "be both."
I've seen people say Rosie smiles at Alastor because she initially misunderstood and thought he wanted her soul, so she was relieved he only wanted his staff fixed.
I wish we'd gotten to see more displays of power from Vox at his full potential.
I remember reading that Viv said in a livestream once that Vox was powerful enough to cause a Hell-wide blackout. I would've loved to see something on that level!
Plus Alastor saying that he thought Vox was as close to his equal as he could imagine when Vox was still relatively new to Hell, with the context that Alastor said that knowing he himself was the strongest sinner in Hell thanks to his deal with Rosie, has crazy implications about Vox's capabilities
If only we had more than 8 episodes per season, he could've been so much more badass! 😩
I just remembered how Vox said in episode 6 that what he planned to do with Angel Dust would "make [Charlie] kill herself" and then what he had Angel Dust do was... Publicly call her hotel a joke.
After episode 8, I can't help but think his line of logic was literally "if I was having a shitty time and my friend called my work garbage I would 100% kill myself"
People online keep fighting me on this shit, so I'm making a big ol' ramble-y rant about why I'm so certain Vox is being set up for a redemption arc. It's all about the writing and animation choices being made. It's one of those "this COULD mean nothing, but in conjunction with the heap of other things that could mean nothing, it definitely all has to mean something."
Warning for dark topics about physical and sexual abuse, but what the hell do you expect, it's Hazbin
I'll try to go chronologically.
The only thing from season 1 that supports my point is that Vox is clearly deeply unhappy with his life, as we find out the first time we see him and he is clearly sick of dealing with both reporters and Val's tantrums. A character has to be dissatisfied with life in Hell to genuinely seek redemption (Baxter being the only possible exception I can even conceive of), so that's one criteria filled.
Season 2 episode 1, Vox literally wants to go to Heaven. His stated motivations? Punish anyone who ever doubted him (directly stated in the song) and be loved and admired as a god ("I never felt closer to being a god" + his doodles don't depict anyone suffering or fearing him, it just shows angels being impressed with him). This is in direct contrast to Valentino and Velvette only being able to come up with material reasons to want more power. Vox's motivation is to fulfill a psychological need, not just "because I can."
Note that Vox is the only antagonist we've gotten so far that the show gives time to explore his psychology and motivations (Lute gets the second-most exploration, but it seems more like foreshadowing of her actions than genuine character building with her). They had to cut so much to make everything fit in 8-episode seasons, why was this too important to scrap? Because it matters.
Season 2 episode 3, Vox visits the hotel. This episode mostly establishes that Vox is a petty bastard, who coulda guessed? But it also tells us a lot of other things about his character. He revels in torturing Angel specifically because he's clearly jealous of Angel's "relationship" with Valentino. That's also why he thinks Val hitting Angel is funny. Vox needs to remind himself that Val abuses Angel just to keep his own jealousy subdued. (Side note: Angel's texts from Val in the following episode mention Vox twice- once when Val says he's going to get Vox to make him an island for the porno he's proposing that he wants Angel to star in, and once when he says he and Angel fooled around at Velvette's last launch party and "Vox would never let me do that, that's why you're special.")
Before leaving, Vox asks Charlie if she thinks he can be redeemed. This is fucking weird. Why ask that? Because the show's writing cares more about plot and foreshadowing than characters acting in-character lol, that's the whole damn reason Husk thinks Charlie's idea is good in that episode, he has to or else Angel won't go along with it and the plot won't happen.
Regardless, the important part is that Charlie answers in the affirmative, reminding us not just of Charlie's viewpoint, but of the show's central message supposedly being that anyone can change for the better. Vox is disturbed by this answer, as his face glitches and his smile screws up. He forcefully laughs and says he can "almost" see why Alastor "humors" her. Because Vox is at least a little intrigued by her answer. How could Charlie possibly think he is redeemable?
One more note for this episode- Vox is protective of Velvette. When Vaggie points her spear at Vox's chest, he doesn't budge, he continues smirking and challenging her. The moment Vaggie's spear shifts to Velvette's neck, Vox immediately pushes the spear away, puts a hand on Velvette's shoulder to guide her away from Vaggie, puts his body between the two, and agrees to leave. Vox may be incredibly self-centered, but he does care about his allies in his own way.
Season 2 episode 4, we see how Vox behaves with Alastor in his clutches. What does he do? Mildly embarrass and bother Alastor. There's no physical torture. Instead, he takes him on a damn milkshake date just so he can drink the whole milkshake in front of him while acting like a smug asshole. The only thing he does to Alastor on live TV is tell everyone he doesn't have a tail; he could have done MUCH more horrific things in that moment. He leaves Alastor in the room while he bangs Valentino, which is obviously fucked up, but I'm not going to talk any more about that scene, I thought it was a dumb and unfunny rape gotcha joke by the writers and I don't think it's worth analysing because I don't think the writers meant for it to mean anything substantial.
Vox then offers Alastor a drink, asks questions that clearly reveal his own insecurities (he basically asked "why was Charlie good enough to work with and not me?"), and doesn't keep pressing when Alastor refuses to answer his questions, instead just remarking that it's strange for him to not want to talk about something.
Alastor mocks Vox for his desperate need for attention and really gets under Vox's skin even though Vox should clearly feel superior in this situation. He doesn't. He'll always be worried Alastor is right about him, that he's too weak and annoying to be worth respecting or even tolerating.
We see Vox in the flashback, and while I think it should be obvious how sincere he is based on his body language, I'll just mention that one blsky or whatever post where someone posted about CRT Vox from that scene and said something like "you're telling me this cutie was a cult leader?" and Viv responded "what a crush will do to ya". So yeah, he really was being sweet, not because he was innocent uwu baby back then, but because he was nervous around his crush.
Vox was open and vulnerable in that moment, which is another thing we get from him and no other antagonist so far. Vox is cruelly rejected by his idol and so-called "friend" (side note: Alastor called him "pal" and didn't say anything when Vox said "we've been close for a few years now") and is left heartbroken and hurt. He never lets go of this incident because not only is it basically his worst nightmare come to life, but Vox just has obsessive tendencies. He's just Like That. A lot of Vox's current ruthlessness comes from his fear of a repeat incident.
So yeah, Vox is an insecure and unhappy person who's been burned in the past and is clearly capable of love and care when he allows himself to feel it.
Something that I saw brought up was also that the whole message of Hazbin Hotel is supposed to be that anyone can change if they want to. To support that thesis, someone who has done awful things has to be redeemed. So many people think this will be Alastor. I laugh at those people. Alastor fucking loves Hell! He doesn't want to be redeemed! He still kills people and never wants to stop! A character redemption is possible for him, but not a true redemption, no way. Vox is by far the best candidate for that role.
I'll admit I think that after episodes 5 & 6, this ending is going to be dumb whether Vox lives or dies (because it would mean they either wasted too much screen time on a soon-to-be-dead guy or they made him way more hateable than most of the audience will ever be willing to move on from)
But anyway, observations.
Vox is going crazy as Alastor predicted. This is probably going to result in him doing stuff that the narrative will absolve him from using the excuse that he was losing it at the time.
2. Vox sure does mention suicide a lot, huh? "if they don't kill you, go ahead and do it yourself," "grab a rope you can swing from," "I'm going to make the princess kill herself." These obviously aren't suicidal statements in and of themselves, but boy, that is on his mind a lot. I can say from experience that people who bring up suicide a lot (even in a joking context) are usually doing that because it's something they consider fairly often. I'm definitely on-board with the "Vox died by televized suicide" theory.
3. This is a crack theory but... I was thinking about how Shock.Wav appeared at the rally. Was it really just for aura? Or maybe it was establishing that Shock.Wav can swim through the air before including them in the final battle. I think it would evoke a good amount of audience sympathy if we see Vox go berserk after his beloved pet gets killed in the big battle. Just throwin that out there on the off-chance I'm onto something here
People online keep fighting me on this shit, so I'm making a big ol' ramble-y rant about why I'm so certain Vox is being set up for a redemption arc. It's all about the writing and animation choices being made. It's one of those "this COULD mean nothing, but in conjunction with the heap of other things that could mean nothing, it definitely all has to mean something."
Warning for dark topics about physical and sexual abuse, but what the hell do you expect, it's Hazbin
I'll try to go chronologically.
The only thing from season 1 that supports my point is that Vox is clearly deeply unhappy with his life, as we find out the first time we see him and he is clearly sick of dealing with both reporters and Val's tantrums. A character has to be dissatisfied with life in Hell to genuinely seek redemption (Baxter being the only possible exception I can even conceive of), so that's one criteria filled.
Season 2 episode 1, Vox literally wants to go to Heaven. His stated motivations? Punish anyone who ever doubted him (directly stated in the song) and be loved and admired as a god ("I never felt closer to being a god" + his doodles don't depict anyone suffering or fearing him, it just shows angels being impressed with him). This is in direct contrast to Valentino and Velvette only being able to come up with material reasons to want more power. Vox's motivation is to fulfill a psychological need, not just "because I can."
Note that Vox is the only antagonist we've gotten so far that the show gives time to explore his psychology and motivations (Lute gets the second-most exploration, but it seems more like foreshadowing of her actions than genuine character building with her). They had to cut so much to make everything fit in 8-episode seasons, why was this too important to scrap? Because it matters.
Season 2 episode 3, Vox visits the hotel. This episode mostly establishes that Vox is a petty bastard, who coulda guessed? But it also tells us a lot of other things about his character. He revels in torturing Angel specifically because he's clearly jealous of Angel's "relationship" with Valentino. That's also why he thinks Val hitting Angel is funny. Vox needs to remind himself that Val abuses Angel just to keep his own jealousy subdued. (Side note: Angel's texts from Val in the following episode mention Vox twice- once when Val says he's going to get Vox to make him an island for the porno he's proposing that he wants Angel to star in, and once when he says he and Angel fooled around at Velvette's last launch party and "Vox would never let me do that, that's why you're special.")
Before leaving, Vox asks Charlie if she thinks he can be redeemed. This is fucking weird. Why ask that? Because the show's writing cares more about plot and foreshadowing than characters acting in-character lol, that's the whole damn reason Husk thinks Charlie's idea is good in that episode, he has to or else Angel won't go along with it and the plot won't happen.
Regardless, the important part is that Charlie answers in the affirmative, reminding us not just of Charlie's viewpoint, but of the show's central message supposedly being that anyone can change for the better. Vox is disturbed by this answer, as his face glitches and his smile screws up. He forcefully laughs and says he can "almost" see why Alastor "humors" her. Because Vox is at least a little intrigued by her answer. How could Charlie possibly think he is redeemable?
One more note for this episode- Vox is protective of Velvette. When Vaggie points her spear at Vox's chest, he doesn't budge, he continues smirking and challenging her. The moment Vaggie's spear shifts to Velvette's neck, Vox immediately pushes the spear away, puts a hand on Velvette's shoulder to guide her away from Vaggie, puts his body between the two, and agrees to leave. Vox may be incredibly self-centered, but he does care about his allies in his own way.
Season 2 episode 4, we see how Vox behaves with Alastor in his clutches. What does he do? Mildly embarrass and bother Alastor. There's no physical torture. Instead, he takes him on a damn milkshake date just so he can drink the whole milkshake in front of him while acting like a smug asshole. The only thing he does to Alastor on live TV is tell everyone he doesn't have a tail; he could have done MUCH more horrific things in that moment. He leaves Alastor in the room while he bangs Valentino, which is obviously fucked up, but I'm not going to talk any more about that scene, I thought it was a dumb and unfunny rape gotcha joke by the writers and I don't think it's worth analysing because I don't think the writers meant for it to mean anything substantial.
Vox then offers Alastor a drink, asks questions that clearly reveal his own insecurities (he basically asked "why was Charlie good enough to work with and not me?"), and doesn't keep pressing when Alastor refuses to answer his questions, instead just remarking that it's strange for him to not want to talk about something.
Alastor mocks Vox for his desperate need for attention and really gets under Vox's skin even though Vox should clearly feel superior in this situation. He doesn't. He'll always be worried Alastor is right about him, that he's too weak and annoying to be worth respecting or even tolerating.
We see Vox in the flashback, and while I think it should be obvious how sincere he is based on his body language, I'll just mention that one blsky or whatever post where someone posted about CRT Vox from that scene and said something like "you're telling me this cutie was a cult leader?" and Viv responded "what a crush will do to ya". So yeah, he really was being sweet, not because he was innocent uwu baby back then, but because he was nervous around his crush.
Vox was open and vulnerable in that moment, which is another thing we get from him and no other antagonist so far. Vox is cruelly rejected by his idol and so-called "friend" (side note: Alastor called him "pal" and didn't say anything when Vox said "we've been close for a few years now") and is left heartbroken and hurt. He never lets go of this incident because not only is it basically his worst nightmare come to life, but Vox just has obsessive tendencies. He's just Like That. A lot of Vox's current ruthlessness comes from his fear of a repeat incident.
So yeah, Vox is an insecure and unhappy person who's been burned in the past and is clearly capable of love and care when he allows himself to feel it.
Something that I saw brought up was also that the whole message of Hazbin Hotel is supposed to be that anyone can change if they want to. To support that thesis, someone who has done awful things has to be redeemed. So many people think this will be Alastor. I laugh at those people. Alastor fucking loves Hell! He doesn't want to be redeemed! He still kills people and never wants to stop! A character redemption is possible for him, but not a true redemption, no way. Vox is by far the best candidate for that role.
I went into this season so worried about Vox's fate by the end of the season but after his teasing little redemption question to Charlie- that HAS to be foreshadowing, right? Like he's definitely going to end up at the hotel in season 3 either desperate enough to seek redemption after his afterlife goes to shit or forced to do so after being defeated, right???
I'm crossing my fingers so hard, that moment just felt like further setup for the irony of Vox's eventual defeat to me
