OH-SNAP-PRO-LIFERS! @oh-snap-pro-lifers - Tumblr Blog

Pro-choicers have //literally// the worst logic.

Bodily autonomy?

Great – not your body. Sex = consent to the possibility of pregnancy = you literally put that thing there you have no right to revoke it’s being there when you are the one responsible.

(also… bodily autonomy literally doesn’t exist except in very small things like the right to get tattoos or go skydiving. Drugs are illegal. Public indecency is illegal. Driving recklessly is illegal. You can’t even donate an organ to save someone’s life if losing that organ would kill you. Killing a developing human //should// be illegal.)

Which brings me to the second and most ignorant: “it’s not a human/alive/a person”.

Why, because it’s small? Short people have no right to live.

Because it’s not capable of surviving on it’s own? Babies, the very old, and the handicapped have no right to live.

Because it’s not human? You literally have no grasp of how biology works.

Because it’s not alive? …I’ve actually seen morons make this argument and I just laugh until I cry.

How about the rape argument? That a woman shouldn’t be forced to bring to term the result of a horrific attack?

Rape is horrible. No argument there. But… why in the world should a child pay for the crimes of its parent?

How about the “to save the life of the mother” argument?

I’m not even going to go here except for one simple consideration: in a day and age where Caesarean-sections are common, how hard is it to attempt to save both lives? If a child dies in the midst of trying to save them, that’s tragic. If a child dies because someone actively poisoned them and ripped their body to shreds, that’s evil.

How about the “if it’s going to be poor/disabled/etc it’s kinder to abort” argument?

…how… horrifically classist and ablist is that? Someone’s life is worth LESS somehow because they are poor or disabled? What even? I can’t even formulate an argument against that I can only squawk in disbelief.

There is not a single pro-choice argument that holds any water, and not a single argument in the world that will ever justify the deliberate destruction of a human life.

…*sigh* I’m done now.

1sistersr4ever

She can do great things if She is allowed to be Born! Rights for Women start in the Womb! Say no to #Gendercide

mother-child-life

from secular prolifes fb page

oh-snap-pro-lifers

Actual facts: ten percent of all pregnancies end in miscarriage before they realize they’re pregnant. Have a word with your god about that one. Also, no more modern medical treatments for you, because those use embryonic cells in the preliminary stages! Google anencephaly and question what’s morally correct. Also, PP provides necessary healthcare. Thought you weren’t supposed to judge your neighbors, you holier-than-thou hypocritical fucks?

1. Abortion is the purposeful termination of a life. Miscarriages are not. Would you ever tell the mother of a miscarriaged child that they killed their baby? Of course not, because they had not done such a thing.

2. I don’t need to discus with any god anything. I don’t understand why it’s so hard to wrap around ones head that you can be pro-life and not have a religion. I don’t need a religion to tell me that killing human beings is wrong.

3. Stem cell research is just barely 20 years old. Do you honestly think that every research done used stem cells? With how hard it is to even get permits and permissions, let alone funding, to do so? Also, if research that is stained with blood can prevent more blood from being lost, then that’s all I need, not the continuation of it, nor the destruction of it. One is horrendous and the other is foolish.

4. PP providing a good service does not erase the fact that they also provide a service that kills the unborn. You can wash the blood off your hands as many times as you want, it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there in the first place.

-Jheila

justspice-nosugar

Just gonna jump in here on the “don’t judge your neighbors” as a Christian-

If you read the context of EVERY passage in the Bible that mentions not judging, it specifies not judging according to the standards and laws of JUST men, but according to Gods law. Thats why Jesus has no problem eating on the sabbath when the pharisees last their minds about it. God didn’t set that law, people did. Jesus was following Gods laws PERFECTLY and calling out hypocrites for being legalistic and ignoring the actual spirit of the laws God gave. In terms of “don’t judge my abortion cause God said don’t judge,” that’s hogwash.

God said, you shall not kill, he knew us in our mother’s womb, and he made people in his image and their lives are sacred.

Some people say: “The Bible does not say anything about abortion.” Let’s examine that statement: Although the Bible does not use the words “abortion” or “pro-life,” that doesn’t mean God doesn’t care about abortion. There are countless wrong things that are not mentioned by name in the Bible. Rather than list everything that would be against God’s will, the Bible gives us truths and guidelines that we can apply in our lives. In this Bible study, you will read many verses that make God’s position about abortion very clear.

Life is a gift of God.

It should be cherished.

It should be nourished.

It should be protected.

A fetus is a clump of cells. not a child. how dare you calling yourself "pro womna" you hate women you disgusting uneducated monster! fetus don't live and don't feel so why you care so much about those fucking cells?! also feminism is not about choices. not everything is feminist and if it is a woman doing it doesn’t change it. you cry over those fucking cells because you hate women.

The clump of cells argument is just about as old as this ask. Every living being on this planet is a clump of cells. The count of cells of a human does not determine the value of their life.

Fetuses are alive, and they can feel to certain extents depending on the stage of development they’re in. Are they aware? Not until late in development, but I’ve argued on that issue before. With people who are more reasonable than a person hiding behind anon cussing and insulting.

I cry over aborted fetuses because those were living children filled with potential, and every human should have the right and choice to live out their lives. Abortion takes a child and kills them at their most defenseless stage.

So many lives lost because of ignorance. That’s why I’m pro-life.

-Jheila

"very pro woman" you gotta be shitting me lmao pro woman? you want to force women to give birth and suffer for 9 month. delete "pro woman" from your bio. fucking delete it. it dosen't matter that you're a woman too. women can be misogynystic. women can hate women. a woman saying misogynystic shit is still misogynystic shit.

What’s misogynistic about supporting mothers? What’s misogynistic about telling women that they are strong enough, that they don’t need abortion?

Misogynistic is abortions done based on sex. Misogynistic is thinking that women are too weak and fragile, that abortion is somehow empowering and necessary.

I’m not going to say that carrying for 9 months is easy, but we should rather be supporting struggling mothers instead of telling them and often times convincing them into killing their child.

-Jheila

Keep up the fantastic debates. I'm standing behind you and admiring from afar :) you're one of my favourite pro-life blogs out there!

Thank you! I’m very sorry for the sudden abandonment of this blog! I hope I can keep on defending it well.

-Jheila

thanks for returning to OSPL

My apologies for departing to quickly and suddenly. Unfortunately I’ll probably be on and off as life does get hectic! But this will always be an issue that I will try my best to make time for.

-Jheila

Hi! I am a pro life Christian. I wanted to reach out and say you are doing a great job at eloquently explaining our position on this issue. There is a blog called motherbychoice that is basically the exact opposite of this one. She has been harassing not only myself, but others, exploiting them for being pro life and using it as content for her blog. I suggest you check it out only so I may seek advice on how to combat such vicious behavior and respond in a factual manner.

Hello, my apologies for such a late reply to this! I will do my best to check this out, and hopefully there is something that can be done

-Jheila

You say a trans man should just get a hysterectomy or just get a dick but.. do you even know how expensive that is?? An abortion is much less expensive.

I understand the costs. But what cost do you place on a life? An abortion is less money, but what of the cost of life?

I personally haven’t gotten a hysterectomy. Another thing to add to my list of fears is surgery. That’s something that I can get over though, hopefully. But costs? It’s a valid reason, yes, but a stupid one in why it’s an issue in the first place. Why should any medical procedure be so hard to obtain financially? Putting aside body alterations, there are underlying issues of costs of medical treatments that literally lead to people dying. It’s obviously one of the many hurdles we have to jump before we can truly be a pro-life society.

-Jheila

I hope every single pro-lifer drops dead in the next 24 hours ❤️ watch your back sweetie!

Trying to clean out the ask box, so even trash like this will get posted.

-Jheila

I have a question. And I am being serious on this, I am not here for the purpose of annoying you. So obviously you're pro life but do you think a girl that has been raped should have to go through the trauma of having to carry her rapists baby?

I don’t know the answer to this. I can’t answer this. I personally feel as though the abortion of a child of rape is punishing an innocent life. But, making a victim of rape carry the child they conceived on an event that they would rather forget, that they wished never happened, that they cry and shake thinking about, it’s also punishing an innocent life.

If we were to just look at numbers, we have a rapist, a victim, and a child. The rapist is the one who deserves punishment. Forcing a victim to keep the child makes them suffer, but a child lives. Allowing them to terminate the pregnancy gives them control back to their life, that had been so quickly and savagely taken away, but a child dies. No matter what, there is one life that benefits, and one that suffers.

Personally, I am terrified of this question. Not just because it’s such an unjust situation with no good answer, but because I don’t know what I would do myself in this case. I am the moderator Jheila. I am of the female sex, but I do not think of myself as a women, or rather, I do not want to be. This is a situation that I am constantly stressed about. To tell the truth, I am scared, paranoid even, around men, just because I fear being raped. This is a weakness of mine that I am gradually overcoming, but I am still scared. You lose the control over your body. You lose your sense of safety, and security. You feel pain and are horrified. And I would lose my sense of identity. Putting aside potential health problems, the destruction of ones normal life (even families who plan for a baby have to change their life style, imagine having that being thrown onto you?) and the crippling medical costs, it’s a mental burden. The child in you? Was from a traumatic event. From a horrible person. You want nothing more than to forget. You never wanted any of this to happen, but for 9 months, you’ll constantly be controlled by it. I don’t want this to happen upon anyone.

I say this to show that I can understand. It’s not black and white. My own answer would change daily, would I be able to carry a child that was conceived this way? Would I be able to? I don’t know. I would like to say, yes, I would put my feelings aside for the sake and life of a baby who is innocent in all of this, but am I really that strong? I don’t know.

-Jheila

Actual facts: ten percent of all pregnancies end in miscarriage before they realize they’re pregnant. Have a word with your god about that one. Also, no more modern medical treatments for you, because those use embryonic cells in the preliminary stages! Google anencephaly and question what’s morally correct. Also, PP provides necessary healthcare. Thought you weren’t supposed to judge your neighbors, you holier-than-thou hypocritical fucks?

1. Abortion is the purposeful termination of a life. Miscarriages are not. Would you ever tell the mother of a miscarriaged child that they killed their baby? Of course not, because they had not done such a thing.

2. I don’t need to discus with any god anything. I don’t understand why it’s so hard to wrap around ones head that you can be pro-life and not have a religion. I don’t need a religion to tell me that killing human beings is wrong.

3. Stem cell research is just barely 20 years old. Do you honestly think that every research done used stem cells? With how hard it is to even get permits and permissions, let alone funding, to do so? Also, if research that is stained with blood can prevent more blood from being lost, then that’s all I need, not the continuation of it, nor the destruction of it. One is horrendous and the other is foolish.

4. PP providing a good service does not erase the fact that they also provide a service that kills the unborn. You can wash the blood off your hands as many times as you want, it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there in the first place.

-Jheila

oh-snap-pro-lifers

Hey all, this is Jheila, I’m not sure how active this blog has been, but my passion for supporting the pro-life movement has been reinvigurated.

Being pro-life means protecting the lives of every human being. I think that very basic idea has been destroyed by pro-choicers, throwing around the idea that we only care about children in the womb, and once they are born, they’re on their own.

No.

I’m tired of being compared to politicians who ignore basic human fundementals. I’m not a politician, I’m a human being who speaks out for fellow human beings that are unable to speak for themselves. I’m sick of being generalized in a group that doesn’t support welfare, I’m sick of being grouped in with people who only mean to look out for their own good.

Some basic things, that everyone should know, pro-life or not.

Body autonomy is a fantastic thing. It means that we are not to be forced to give up our bodys, or body parts, to anything, without our consent. Even once we are dead, we still have control over our bodies. BUT, body autonomy ONLY applies to your body. A child growing within ones body has a body of their own, and they should be given the unalienable right to their life and body, even if they cannot defend themselves.

Laws change. Just because current laws say that abortion is legal doesn’t, in any shape or form, mean it is right, or it is lawful. Mankind always had laws that violated basic human rights. This is merely another sad example.

A child, or fetus, developing in the womb cannot, by definition, be parasitic. A parasite infests a host of a different species. A relationship based on dependence does not mean it is parasitic. The body does not react to a fetus as a foriegn matter to be expelled, it actually connects it to be even closer. Also, to be a parasite means that it is dependent on a host for life. We all know this isn’t the case for a developing child.

A fetus is alive. This is basic science. A organism that adapts, grows, and requires nutrients is alive. It matters not on size, dependence, or signifigance. An organism is alive. And a fetus is an organism, the first stage of life for a human being. Rememberm life varies from the smallest of creatures, to the largest of giants. Especially when you have a being that develops are heartbeat, obviously metabolizes, and reacts to stimuli, it’s almost a mystery as to why the unborn are thrown around as being “not alive”.

A human fetus is, duh, human. There’s really no excuse for saying “well it isn’t human”, because they obviously are. The DNA is there folks.

The nervous system is formed well into the second month after conception. What is unknown, at least to my knowledge, is when the conscious of the child is formed. This can be argued, and I’m ears towards varying opinions. If you define consciouness as being aware, then at the cellular level, even at the embryo state is one conscious. If you define it as being “awake”, then that I do not have an answer to that is supported heavily. However, 4 weeks after conception, the brain is forming. Just thought that should be put out there.

Cut off dates for abortion varies by state and country. The latest is third trimester, the earliest is 6 weeks. At 6 weeks, a heartbeat is formed. By the third trimester, a fetus is, and has been, viable beyond the womb.

Human right violations are rampant, even in this day and age. Morals vary by person, but a general concensous among all people is that the killing of another human being is wrong. Sometimes it can be justified, ie. you were about to be killed/harmed, and had to defend yourself.

I leave with this question for the pro-life community, because I myself have struggled with it or long. When, if ever, is abortion deemed justifable?

thefantasticfangirlingfeminist

Ok, so I’m going to address two different points in your post that I found troublesome.

Point One: “Body autonomy is a fantastic thing. It means that we are not to be forced to give up our bodys, or body parts, to anything, without our consent. Even once we are dead, we still have control over our bodies. BUT, body autonomy ONLY applies to your body. A child growing within ones body has a body of their own, and they should be given the unalienable right to their life and body, even if they cannot defend themselves. “

You like bodily autonomy, and that’s great. But I don’t think you quite get it. Because yes, bodily autonomy does give me the right to control what happens with my own body. And that does not go away if I get pregnant. If you say that abortion violates a fetus’s bodily autonomy, you are saying that a fetus’s bodily autonomy supersedes the person who is pregnant. Because the only way that a fetus can survive, and keep their “rights to their life and body”, is by violating those of the parent.

So, even though you claim you don’t only care about the fetus in cases of abortion, your argument seems to say otherwise.

Point Two: “Laws change. Just because current laws say that abortion is legal doesn’t, in any shape or form, mean it is right, or it is lawful. Mankind always had laws that violated basic human rights. This is merely another sad example.”

Ok, so just because you disagree with a law doesn’t make it unlawful. Unlawful by definition means “going against the law”. Laws do change.

As for the whole “laws that violate human rights”, again you seem to be forgetting that a pregnant person is, in fact, a human as well.

oh-snap-pro-choice

That’s a great breakdown of some of the points that I had a problem with.

Another few things:

No one can define consciousness yet as it pertains to “awareness”. As someone whose in cognitive science, studying consciousness, this is such a weak argument. By this definition we can call bacteriophage conscious, which is just demonstratably incorrect. As well, just because the nervous system is intact does not mean that a thing can feel pain. You have to look at the development of the brain and pain receptors .

Even the most conservative estimates put it at 20 weeks. Research points more strongly to 24 though, which is 6 months into the pregnancy or the end of the second trimester. The ACOG claims it to be at around 27 weeks.

THE TWO MONTH CLAIM IS A MYTH PERPETUATED ONLY BY ANTI ABORTION SOURCES.

http://www.livescience.com/54774-fetal-pain-anesthesia.html

And so what if brains begin developing at 4 weeks old? At most it’s a well defined neural groove, which is the basis for a brain. Not a brain in itself.

kloroformkettlingur-deactivated

Somebody who knows a lot about it and has sources readily available: what say you about how, medically, you are determined to be dead or alive according to the activity registered on an EEG and not the presence of a beating heart. I believe this is a large factor backing the claim that a fetus isn’t alive and feeling anything, emotion or pain or awareness, until week 24.

oh-snap-pro-lifers

A fetus is obviously alive, though you may be confusing alive with aware. The body of a fetus responds to the environment, whether there is a central nervous system to put all this information together and “make sense” of it is what you are getting at, i presume.

I don’t believe, and this is a pure opinion based on my own morals, that the inability to compile information, the inability to be aware, means that the right to life is forfeit. You have control over your own body even when you are dead, so why are we saying that a preborn child, alive and well, shouldn’t have control over their own body and life?

This is not equivalent to denying the rights of the mother, mind you. Giving a preborn child the right to live does not supersed any rights of the mother, it puts the two at equal terms. The child’s life is equal to the mothers life, and vis versa. Therefore, neither have the moral ability to end the others life.

kloroformkettlingur-deactivated

Alive or dead is determined by whether brainwaves register on an EEG. Before 24 weeks, the brain is not yet developed enough to form brain waves. It’s not alive nor is it aware. It’s brain isn’t developed enough for it to be alive or aware. Terminating a pregnancy before the fetus is capable of processing emotions, feelings/sensation or have self awareness is not causing pain or suffering be it physical or mental.

Forcing a person with a fully developed sense of emotion, feeling/sensation and self awareness to undergo a process like pregnancy for the sake of something that cannot feel, sense or realize, is forcing them to forfeit their bodily autonomy. I dare say it should be considered inhumane.

Abortion before 24 weeks is our last chance to terminate a pregnancy before the fetus CAN develop enough to feel.

I realize that anti choice people are trying to defend something that is on its way to being alive and have awareness and feeling, but if we realize that it’s not yet alive, aware and feeling and allow abortion before 24 weeks, people who no longer wish to be pregnant can be helped WITHOUT actually hurting or killing. It’s like putting out the fuse to a brick of tnt before it explodes. It’s not an explosion yet, it will be if you let it but it’s not yet so you can still put it out before it’s too late.

oh-snap-pro-lifers

Are you seriously denying the fact that a fetus is alive? Do you know what life is? There are basic requirements of what it means to be alive, all of which a fetus meets. A bacteria is alive, just as a tree is alive, just as a human is alive. I really think you are using the word alive yet you don’t know what it means? What you are describing is awareness. The lack of a brain does not determine life. There are so many organisms without a brain that are well alive, otherwise we would probably all be dead due to the collapse of the food chain, but that’s besides the point.

And sure, just as killing a child because they were an inconvenience is taking away their autonomy and right to life. You’re telling me that autonomy now applies to the idea that you have control over another life that is not your own. Come on now, you know that’s not what autonomy is.

I laugh because you say inhumane. Because you know, according to you killing a human because they’re not developed is apparently humane.

I also laugh at the fact that you’re using anti-choice to describe me and people of the movement, while the pro-choice movement is ironically removing all choices of the child.

Mother and child are equal, their value of life is equal. That’s why we believe that a mother should not be legally allowed to kill their child. In the extremely rare case that the child is a threat to the mothers existence, then it’s just logic. You can have one live, or none live. But with abortion, it’s you can have one live, or two live.

kloroformkettlingur-deactivated

Context my friend. But it’s useless to argue with somebody who strawmans a persons reproductive Rights down to “inconvenience” and who gets mad That I too use a buzzword like anti choice while they freely use pre born baby.

People who think and feel and are aware have suffured because of the anti abortion movement and because that movement pushes to have the benefit of something that cannot suffer, put over their own.

So back to my original question, Somebody who knows a lot about it and has sources readily available: what say you about how, medically, you are determined to be dead or alive according to the activity registered on an EEG and not the presence of a beating heart. I believe this is a large factor backing the claim that a fetus isn’t alive and feeling anything, emotion or pain or awareness, until week 24.

oh-snap-pro-lifers

I suppose this boils down to where and how you place value on life. A vegetative patient cannot feel, they are not aware, yet I don’t think it’s right to end their life, unless they asked prior to that state to be “killed”.

My belief is that we should try our very best to not end others lives. No matter if they’re aware, no matter if they can’t feel pain, they are a living being, which you keep denying for reasons I cannot understand. The EEG reads brain signals, of course a fetus without a fully developed brain wouldn’t show up on that. So what? You’re placing a needless contraint on what defines life. There are plenty of organisms, small to large, that don’t have a brain. Are they not alive? Yes, this goes down to the very basics, but there are points that define what is alive, they include growing, responding to stimuli, metabolizing, there is not a single point that a fetus doesn’t meet. You’re really confusing what it means for an organism to be alive, and what it means to be cognitive.

I understand that a fetus as a whole doesn’t feel, that they aren’t aware. But that doesn’t mean that we can trample their rights, they are still a human being. Even the dead are given their rights, they clearly aren’t aware, they clearly aren’t alive. A living developing human being should be given those same rights.

kloroformkettlingur-deactivated

A person who is in a vegetative state is not violating anybody’s bodily autonomy.

Preserving something that cannot suffer at the expenses of someone who can is a needless constraint.

oh-snap-pro-lifers

And preserving the rights of the dead causes suffering of those in need of organ transplants, yet we stand by bodily autonomy and give the dead their rights, while we can’t even offer a living fetus any of theirs.

You say suffer, and I can’t help but think of this. You can instantly kill someone in many ways, and they don’t suffer, they wouldn’t of even been able to suffer because they died instantly. So a fetus cannot suffer during its death, but does that make their termination excusable? In both cases, a human being dies. Wouldn’t you agree that in a case where both can live, we should go that route? A persons choice should never have the direct impact of killing someone, except in times of self preservation.