>Are we going to finish him?
He’s on his last leg. So, to be honest, I feel like with everybody he’s speaking out about their own stories it’s pretty much already finished, and clearly we all know he tried to go on that crazy smear campaign essentially turning all the accusations against him against me, which, I mean, was pretty nuts but if you watch it it’s pretty obvious what he was trying to do, so.
>He outed someone’s sexual assault after she came out.
Yup! Well, Greg actually made sort of an underhanded joke in a video about something that he very vaguely knows about me and it seemed like he was just trying to let me know that there was more about me that he knew that he could talk about, which he, you know, has brought up before over email asking me about the abuse that I suffered in my past, and I told him that it all wasn’t true because he, you know, was clearly doing it to try to use it against me, and I am not going to be blackmailed by the things that I’ve already been through my life. Like, that’s pretty… pretty nuts to assume that that would silence me. I mean, I’ve never been quiet about what I’ve been through in my life so it’s just a little nutty but he does very clearly dig up people’s pasts and look for abuse to try to use it against them because a lot of people aren’t comfortable with having their abuse stories public. I’m not really afraid of stuff like that I feel like I’ve always been pretty open with my following so that does not scare me.
[Playing video games]
>If you come out with your trauma, he’s got nothing against you.
Yeah, I actually spoke to my mom about it because I didn’t really know what to do if he does ever decide to try to like publicly smear me for getting abused as a child. I don’t really know what the right course of action is. My mom just said, “have you ever seen Eight Mile?” You know, if there’s anything you think he’s gonna throw at you just throw it out first and he’s got nothing, and I feel like in a lot of ways she’s right. Though, I was never really quiet about it before.
>What happened when you were caught sneaking out?
He just tried to convince us to stay but it was pretty evident at the time that that was not a situation we needed to be in.
>He thinks because he shares way too much that no one else should have boundaries.
I believe that he over shares about himself because he gets some sort of validation from me but he is very aware that people have boundaries, and I think that that’s why he does it. So he can say that he thinks that everybody should be open but it’s not typical for everybody to put, you know—everything that’s ever happened to them on the internet. I mean, I haven’t talked about every single thing that’s ever happened to me my whole life. I talk about important things. I’ve talked about, you know, mental health issues. I’ve talked about fear. I’ve talked about a lot of different things, so…
>He needs to have basic respect in the first place.
That is true. I mean, he has gone out of his way to try to out a lot of people for things that they didn’t want public so that they would stop coming out and speaking about the things that he has done, and clearly it’s not working. I’ve been in contact with a lot of the girls who suffered from some of these situations and it’s not really working on them either. I’m so glad for that because I can tell you from the first time that he went on a crazy smear campaign about me it was terrifying. I had no idea what to do. I mean, I posted a video crying on the internet because I had asked him so many times privately to stop speaking about me, and stop using my name, and my face, and everything like that. He does not respect boundaries. He does not respect people’s privacy. He will post your deepest darkest secrets if he has to to try to make you look bad, and for me, you know, my deepest, darkest secrets aren’t even bad things that I’ve done. They’re bad things that have happened to me. I really feel like I might be, you know—it might be a better idea to just come out and speak about what happened to me as a kid before he tries to use it against me, which I don’t even know how he would try to do that or how he would try to spin it to make me look bad because I don’t think that you should ever blame a child for being abused. It’s clearly not their fault, but…
>He’s quite the sunshine, isn’t he?
Yeah.
>Did he ever use publicity as a threat?
So, he doesn’t ever say specifically that he’s going to do things like that. I think that he just does it and it’s typically whenever he feels that he is losing power in the situation or he does not have control over a situation. He will do things like that.
Yeah, he talks a lot about how he’s getting death threats now because of everything that’s going on, and it’s actually a classic manipulation tactic to try to play the victim and deflect blame whenever you are caught up in something.
>He wants to manipulate you so you’ll stop talking about him.
Yeah, I understand that. I mean, I was very aware what he was doing even the first time when him and my best friend didn’t work out. Well, and then Lainey and my best friend didn’t work out, and he went on this crazy campaign to try to make us look awful because he knew that we were very aware of all of the crazy things that he did and requested.
>What did you mean last time you said he very different online as when he’s offline?
In person, I would say he’s he’s very charismatic, which is, I think, very different from how he is online. It’s a little more, I think, cold online. It’s a little more calculated. If he does post things for a purpose online whereas in person he just uses a specific way of speaking to get what he wants. So, it doesn’t take as much effort
in real life to do the things that he does.
>Has he verbally and psychologically abused these girls?
Yes, absolutely. It’s actually pretty scary to see the
way that he goes about things because he does pretty much all looks a typical manipulation tactics where he starts off with very positive reinforcement and love bombing and slowly but surely he will sort of take away those things or he will sort of mistreat you if you’re not acting the way that he wants. He’ll threaten to send you home or take things away or a lot of different things. He will insult you if you are not acting the way that he wants. He will clearly publicly humiliate you if you’re not behaving in a way that he finds acceptable.
>Do you think that the judicial system is going
to be able to make a case against him?
From what I can see, Greg is very careful to make sure that he skims that legal line so that he will not get in trouble. He’s very tactical about the way that he does these things so that legally there’s nothing you can do. I can tell you times a day that he’s morally corrupt and, you know, he gets into people’s heads and it’s scary to be honest, but he works very very hard to make sure that he will get away with these things, and that’s why I felt like saying something publicly is really one of the best things that I could do because even if everything he’s doing is not against the law per se, that doesn’t mean that it’s morally right or that people should not know that he’s doing these things to young women and it’s not, you know— Young women out there should have access to the information that you will manipulate his way into getting you to do things that you would have never done or say things that you would have never said before and… yeah.
>How do you feel about him—
Ok, so. I didn’t ever try to sleep with that young woman. I think I’ve made that pretty clear. It was clearly a defence tactic to try to sort of deflect blame onto someone else. I was 19 years old at the time. I was also a teenager and he clearly tried to paint me as this horrible pervert, and I didn’t ever try anything with her but I was also a teenager at the time, which has no comparison to a 33 year old man or a 25 year old woman doing similar things. I know he tried really really hard to make it look like I was this awful person and I’m sure it’s pretty obvious, like, how he did it and why he did it and I’m actually very glad that people can understand that I’m not that kind of person.
>He tries to punish these girls for acting ways he deems disrespectful
That’s true. He once threatened to send the young woman that was discussed before and also Billie home because they wouldn’t babysit his children. So, it’s pretty crazy.
>Does he restrict everyone from seeing their family?
He did ask one of these girls to not contact her family for an entire year and move in with him and have no contact with anybody from where she lived including myself. So he does go through and use isolation as another tactic to keep these girls, you know, within his grasp. All of its kind of messed up it’s just I know that they skim the legal line. Everybody says go to the police but I plan on talking to the police and bringing them all of this information but they are very careful about whether or not they break the law so that even if this all comes out one day and people realize what he’s been doing to these women that he can’t actually go to jail it would just ruin his YouTube, but it’s pretty… [sigh]. Just the whole thing’s messy.
>Let the police decide what to do.
Right, and I do plan that. I’m actually not in my hometown right now, which is the only reason they haven’t gone to the police yet, but I will be going back tomorrow but I plan on going to the police and sort of giving them all of the information that I have and ask them what I should do about it. About the videos he’s made about me painting me as a pervert and about all of these things that he’s doing to these young women because he’s clearly got a pattern. There’s clearly a very evident way that he goes about things, but I’ve been doing research to try to understand a little better how he does these things because it’s scary and it’s important that you can recognize the things that he does, or the things that anybody like that will do.
>Can you go into detail about him getting mad at the two girls not wanting to babysit?
Those are the details that I have, that they were not doing an adequate enough job to babysit so he threatened to send them both home.
>Has Greg tried to contact you since the last e-mail?
Other than the text that he posted in his video trying to smear me he has not contacted me since then, no. I know it’s not their job. [As in, not the girls job to babysit]
>Did Lainey genuine want a relationship with a female?
I have no idea what Lainey really wanted.
It was a deflection tactic very clearly. I was 19 at the time, like, it’s just crazy to be painted as a pervert when, first of all you didn’t do anything, but also, like, a teenager talking to a teenager. I don’t know it just doesn’t make any sense see why he was under the impression that that would work, and I’m sure that it was just an intimidation tactic to be like, hey, you know I can make you look bad, too, but it’s not just me coming out and speaking about the things that they’ve done. I think that me being able to come out and say anything at all has inspired a lot of young women who have suffered through this to come forward and tell their stories and share what happened.
>Greg is scared of you.
I don’t think he should be scared of me. I think he should be scared of the truth. I have never done anything to Greg. I have never really been rude to him him. I have never really done anything to him other than being vocal about the abuse that he so clearly associates himself with. I mean, the first time he went on a smear campaign it was because I was public about some of the things that he did to my best friend even when she wasn’t because he was trying so hard to make her look awful, and I tweeted about how he tried to chain her up in the basement for a week, and make her shave her head, and dye her moss hair, or get I’m a liar tattooed on her. Even cornered her in the garage once to try to convince her to get a tattoo, and I came in shortly after and I was like, this is not okay, and that’s actually the day that we left.
>What was the last straw?
So, for a long time I really was just too scared to say anything because after I said anything about what he had done to my best friend he went on this horrible smear campaign about how I’m a criminal and a degenerate and all of these things and I was scared. I mean, he made videos about me for over a year after I had even seen him. I only met him one time. So it took a long time. I mean, it’s been two years since this situation happened—two years in a month, I think. For a year and a half of that I was still on the front page of his YouTube, or I was in his videos, or he was referencing me in a lot of different ways, and I was scared because I don’t know what he’s capable of.
>Why was Sarah under the [inaudible]?
I have no idea. Because that’s what they said.
>Standing up to Greg was very brave of you.
It took a lot. I mean, to this day it still takes a lot. It’s only been a short time since I came out and I haven’t really been sleeping because I know some of the girls that he’s trying to blackmail and use information against to keep their silence and it’s scary. That’s just, like, I don’t want him to try to ruin my life because I think that it’s important that people know what he does young women and what he tries to do the young women, though not always as successful as he’d like to be.
>Do you think he sees himself as a normal guy?
Well, maybe he does. I feel like it would be scarier if he didn’t realize what he was doing. I feel like it’s pretty impossible to be so good at manipulating and doing it to so many people without even realizing. I don’t even really think that that’s a thing.
>How does he think any of this is ok?
I really don’t know. I feel like for somebody who comes off as honest and moral and some white knight it’s pretty insane. I mean, he once posted an email he got from an ex-friend of mine on Twitter, like, trying to paint me as this awful person. I had to email him and have him take it down because the e-mail was from somebody who I knew in real life but I had had to threaten to call the police on that person before for showing up at my house and it was pretty clear then that if he has anything from anyone that could put you in a bad light, whether or not that person is dangerous to you, he will use it, and he acted like he was my hero for even taking down that post. Also whenever he e-mailed me about—asking me about the abuse that I suffered as a child he insinuated that I should be thankful that he hasn’t said anything about that publicly online, and I know that that was just another tactic to get me to not say anything but it’s pretty scary. He goes through a lot of effort to make sure these people are too scared to come forward and a lot of them are. I’m sure that there’s many people who won’t even say anything about it because they’re worried about what he’s going to do, and I knew going into that it would be really really hard to do this and that he would go out of his way to try to make me look bad, and make videos like the one that he posted, trying to paint me as this awful person, and I knew that from experience. He’s done it to me before but I realized that it was more important to come out to speak about this so people will know what’s going on instead of avoiding it to try to save himself. I would rather you know go down in a blaze then let two, or three, or four more people go through this. It’s not right and it’s not ok.
>Did you help Billie out of the manipulation and help her leave?
Yeah, I did because I noticed it a lot sooner than she did, and for a long time she was too deep it in to do anything about it, so she needed some assistance, which I feel like is pretty typical for a lot of these girls because you don’t even realize how deep in it you are until it’s too late.
>It’s weird he uses Richie to attach you and then attacks you himself.
Yeah, I do think it’s pretty crazy that whenever he was attacking Richie, he says that he defended me from blackmail from Richie, and that—Richie was gonna come out and say all these bad things about me, and though Richie did threaten to blackmail me so I wouldn’t speak out about the fact that he had cheated on me so many times and he was looking for 18 year old girls, you know, Richie was trying to keep me quiet, too, using the same tactics that Greg used because he’s got such a large following. He tried to defend me when Ritchie was trying to blackmail me, but now he himself is trying to blackmail all of these other girls. I think it’s so twisted and crazy that he acts like he’s such this, you know, righteous person for defending me at any point but he goes around and does the same thing to not only me, but to so many other people.
I didn’t offer anybody drugs. I smoke marijuana. We’ve been over that, but I don’t go around handing people drugs. I don’t even have any drugs. I mean how was I even gonna get these drugs if I was locked in his house. That’s what I want to know. Well, I wasn’t locked in. Clearly I could have left because I did.
Yeah, no. I didn’t. Not a thing. I never hit on Sarah.
She [Billie] has very much separated herself from this situation and she’s got no interest in diving back into it because clearly they will never leave her alone.
>What other red flags did you notice?
It’s pretty—it’s, like, typical language. I mean, he will offer financial gain or financial loss. He will insult you, or make fun of you, or try to make you feel like you’re doing something wrong if you’re not acting the way he wants you to. It’s a lot of different things. If you look up just manipulation tactics, which I was earlier today actually, it’s pretty point-blank everything that he does. Victim-blaming, deflection, all of those sorts of things. It’s pretty cut and
dry.
>Did he write your visit off for taxes?
I believe he did. I know that he made a video with me and that’s normally all he needs to write off stuff in taxes, so even in his vide he said that he paid for my tickets. It’s pretty typical for him to write things like that off on those taxes. So, again, just another way to try to make me look like I was doing something that was wrong, I guess.
>Question about how Billie is doing
She’s good. Billie’s actually great. She’s really happy now. She’s been working a lot on YouTube channel and trying out new things and she’s really a lot happier than she was. It’s actually kind of great to see her doing so well because for a long time she wasn’t for obvious reasons.
>Billie’s flourishing.
She is! She’s living her best life these days. Her best life.
>Are you and Billie working?
Actually, I have an interview on Tuesday for a new job, which is very exciting and hopefully they don’t Google me right now because clearly Greg’s off the handle. I’d be pretty upset.
The last time that he contacted her [Billie] was not ten months ago. It was much more recent than that but, you know. Whatever.
>Why does he keep contacting her?
He’s obsessed. He says things like he has dreams that won’t go away, and, you know, things like that. He once called me and essentially spoke to me non-stop for about an hour just about how—what started off, oh, Lainey misses Billie, and Lainey needs closure, and then he pretty quickly went into, like, Lainey has dreams about her all the time. Pretty quickly into, oh, I have dreams about her and I can’t get her out of my head. So, he was using Lainey to try to say she’s the one who needed something but yeah. It’s clearly him because he only talked about himself in the end.
>Do you know more women will be coming forward?
Truthfully, I hope that they do but I know that not everybody is willing to go through what I’m already going through to try and take him down. It’s pretty scary especially when you are a young woman to have you know a 33 year old man trying to essentially defame you. I mean, it’s terrifying for me and I’m a lot older now than I was the first time.
Greg said a lot about my best friend cheating but that never happened. Not a real thing.
>Has Lainey ever talked bad about Greg?
Yes? Though not publicly.
Yes, I was in contact with that young woman. And she contacted me, so it was direct.
I don’t think that they claimed her on their taxes.
I am going to go to the police and bring them all of the information that I have but they are very careful about skimming that legal line so I don’t know that they will do anything about it but I will be giving them all of that information just to make sure that they are aware.
>He’s the Youtube version of R. Kelly
I feel like I’ve seen it a lot. That’s funny.
We never encouraged anybody to starve themselves. Billie and I have never had an eating disorder. We’ve never been diagnosed with an eating disorder or treated for an eating disorder. I’m 130 pounds right now at 5’6”. I mean, by no means underweight I’ve been essentially this weight since high school, so, you know. It was pretty much just a part of the initial smear campaign him saying that we starve ourselves and we’ve got all of these issues, but it was never a real thing, which my mom tweets about a lot actually. Every time my mom sees me eating she’ll tweet a picture of it because there have been so many rumors about me having an eating disorder because of Greg.
>Is there anything you haven’t said because you’re scared?
There are things that I am not going to share because it has been requested of me not to share but, no. There’s no information that I have about them pertaining to me specifically that I have not at least tried to share.
>It can mentally screw with you.
Right. Well, it was pretty crazy for a couple months having my whole feed just being like, oh, stop starving yourself…
[irrelevant talk]
I don’t mind you asking any specific questions. There are just some questions that I don’t really have a clear answer to. I do not know every inner working of their marriage or what they talk about in private, so there’s only so much I can speak about truthfully, and I never have any intention of misrepresenting myself or them.
>Is there anything about Lainey that would surprise us and that we should be aware of?
I don’t really know that there’s anything that would surprise you about her. She is pretty similar to her online personality in real life.
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