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@palerworldstrangers
From Press Release:
Randomly came across an ad for this. The isometric view and UI layout immediately grabbed my attention. Being a Disco head, I naturally became curious about it and wasn't at all surprised to find it was heavily inspired by Disco Elysium. Seems interesting.
If Jean ever actually weally weally cawed about Harry that’s worse, the way he treats him is much worse.
in what fucking universe does loving someone excuse murdering them for having the audacity to be a disabled addict
Once you set out to excuse the actions of someone who is doing something fundamentally inexcusable you just show your ass you slip on the ground and your pants fall down, and your entire ass is out. And no one wants to see this.
In what world does the man screaming degradations at a disabled person need defending? In what world is this not the dominant way of life for every disabled person? He doesn’t need you batting for his honor. He steals mustard from the homeless.
Actually, you know what I think I’ve been too nice to Jean. He doesn’t just sit on his ass doing nothing while a pack of first world mercenaries prepare to descend on the most vulnerable district in the city. He’s also surveilling Harry and arguing with the precinct's captain's to have his coworker fired. He’s using the volatile situation in Martinaise for petty workplace maneuvering. And that’s worse than just being a lazy freak.
It takes an opportunistic monster to do that. I should give credit where credit is due.
@pentimint
it makes him so much more of an interesting character like in defanging him people reduce him to Ashes they reduce him to Nothing
exactly like, the character that is fanon Jean is so…it’s a character from an average boring copaganda procedural, he has no place in Elysium, no cohesion with the narrative and themes, he’s just a woobie who exists to be abused for the most boring yaoi dreck imaginable
I really really hate that we keep having to explain why stealing from the homeless is bad. I especially hate that I have to point out the very obvious difference between beating a man who accosted you while intoxicated vs stealing from the homeless.
Because the way fandom discussions go people will say I’m defending the former. And I’m not. I’m not defending police brutality. These are fundamentally different actions coming from different mindsets and that’s why we talk about it.
Jean, fully sober, stealing mustard from a homeless man is crucial characterization too is the thing. It’s cruel, it’s unusual, it’s a petty display of dominance that is perfectly in line with how he treats Harry for the entire game. Jean is someone who punches down on people.
And what we learn from Harry’s police brutality is that the RCM knows Harry is unfit for duty and lets him run around armed anyway. Also Burke's life as a disabled man is also not valued. Harry would’ve been in way more trouble if he beat on someone who wasn’t a crazy alcoholic. Do you see the themes, the parallels?
@grapesofa
I can't believe I haven't seen much discussion about Burke being disabled and how that impacts the police response to Harry beating him, because yeah that's also such an important detail. I also think a lot of people severely underestimate how much cops as a whole (and most people in positions of power, but especially cops) aggressively hate homeless and disabled people. You wanna know a real easy way to get people to reveal themselves as fascists? Vaguely mention homeless people around a cop and there's a good chance you'll get a crash course on eugenics.
SO true!
The parallels are so juicy, like Harry only has this position protecting him from being Burke or The Pigs. Gnaws. Gnaws. I love how his reflection is in fragments in other characters.
hello everyone it's me. today i'm going insane over the fucking. halogen watermarks of all things
the fact that kim's watermark is the largest and brightest of all of them. the fact that harry's is faded and askew.
I'm sorry but whenever the game mentions that Harry is rather gangly save for his gut I just look the other way in ignorance
From a comment I left on the post, but it merits reblog standard with some edits:
Harry is described as sturdy, chubby and husky in game. Kim calls him sturdy at least once. He gets called a fatass by Cuno and Cunoesse, and Cuno even pokes him in the gut while saying it.
The following happens to a Harry with a Physical Instrument of at least 5 iirc (that is a High FYS Harry, which means a lot of players miss out on it, sadly):
When talking to the Working Class Wife, she describes her missing husband using you as a yard stick. And calls you chubby. Whereupon Physical Instrument throws a fit (Did she just call you *fat*? You are *not* fat!) and you can correct her, saying you have a Franconigerian Hard-body (Softly round, yet still in shape. Chicks dig it.)
Moments later, depending on how you play, you can try to convince Plaisance the Book Store Owner to let you into the back room to investigate, by flexing. Again, Physical Instrument pipes up and has to correct itself as it speaks (Your lean- Uh, husky and chubby brawn -- is pure animal magnetism) because not even it can lie to itself like that.
Harry is NOT a lean man.
So I assume he really does give that "gym teacher gone to seed"-vibe, as in he was athletic, once, but alcohol and fast food has done a number on him (Endurance reflects on this in a dialogue and you can reflect upon your soft stomach as you try to sleep on day 1 iirc, seeing as it makes the blanket not quite cover your feet).
Big beer belly and "alcoholic legs" (as in skinny), but strong arms and a bit of a flabby chest. No ass. That bit is kinda funny and I want to keep it.
Thinking about them. The fact that Dora left Harry in part because of his depression. And it’s not her fault and it doesn’t make her a bad person because it’s not her responsibility to take care of him and Harry gets destructive when he’s depressed and she doesn’t have to put up with that. But also. It’s still so fucked up. It wasn’t entirely his fault either and he couldn’t help a lot of it and he was relying on her aways being there for him to keep going. The exhaustion of being with someone who will never get better, and the guilt of being the sick one.
You get sad, Harry. Too sad.
I noticed that sometimes Kim has these almost childish mannerisms, like repeating words, staring at the ground and being described as "like a boy" when is upset/ambarassed
And also the whole reason Harry even wakes up in the game is because of Kim’s car engine. He was in such a fucked up state that if he would’ve stayed asleep like that he probably would’ve died. He was probably trying to kill himself, consciously or not. Ancient Reptilian Brain and the Limbic System are always pushing for Harry to kill himself because they (and he, because they are his brain) think it’s the literal only way out.
Harry isn’t a bad person he’s just fucking depressed and actively suicidal.
Among many other things, what fascinates me about Disco Elysium is that the world is clearly magical: the Pale is literally this supernatural fog that is slowly covering the entire world and it affects time and space in weird ways, and while there's no general "skill" or mana-like resource for it, Harry clearly possesses some kind of supernatural abilities that he utilizes throughout the game
He has a reputation for being able to get inside anyone's head regardless of how much they don't want to talk, he can literally sense what his fellow officers are doing and saying about him remotely, he can (and at one point in the story, has to) acquire information that he simply would not possibly be able to possess about the city, its history, and its denizens just by breathing in the air with the Shivers skill. His Empathy skill ranges from picking up general vibes to just straight up reading people's minds and the Drama skill when high enough is practically a lie detector.
And he doesn't even really seem to understand these abilities, where they come from, or how to even use them on command: in his head he just has a really uncanny intuition but it's clear from the amount of and kinds of information he picks up that he is subconsciously tapping into some kind of ESP and it's likely related to the Pale.
Lieutenant Double-Yfreitor Harrier Du Bois is a wizard and he wastes his powers on the police force, is what I'm trying to say
And what else would he be? Harry is a pretty normal guy. I’d go so far as to say this is a central theme of the character and setting.
Harry has marvelous powers. The world doesn’t care. He’s a poor disabled man living in an occupied nation with no municipal government. He's brilliant, compassionate, hates unnecessary violence. He can’t stop a tenement crowded with families from collapsing. He can’t stop the bomb. In a world that celebrates Innocences, Harry is probably the closet thing to the real deal they’ve had in awhile. They leave him to die.
I remember in my first playthrough of disco elysium I spent the whole first in-game day trying to wrap my head around the game mechanics and Harry’s thought process, having a pretty difficult time of it, and then I found myself understanding Kim from his first few scenes in a way that was honestly kind of uncomfortable.
He’d do something small like immediately regretting bringing up the drummer thing and I’d just put my head in my hands going “oh no is this how I sound to other people”. Lame as hell guy.
And it just kept going. No I’m not cool, I’m not good at my job or whatever. Don’t make fun of me for anything ever my brain is incapable of telling apart teasing and bullying. Why are you telling me your problems I can’t fix any of that get them away from me. The thing I like about you is that I can tell you look up to me. I wear a revolutionary air brigade jacket to work every day. What about the jacket what are you talking about I’m not a communist. I’m normal. I hate board games right up until I win. I need to be good at my job. Ask things of me but only if they make me feel useful. No I am worried for you, you understand, but you should try being less preoccupied with personal affairs. That’s what all the rest of us are doing. Guy that sucks. Makes me embarrassed.
pisses me off so much that Measurehead and Harry’s encounter with him is dismissed entirely as a joke. a eugenicist calls our disabled protagonist disgusting things and the player just giggles because ultimately they don’t take Measurehead seriously as a Black man, or Harry and Kim seriously as people who move through the world and are affected by this ableism daily.
@psilocervidae
I think the general player is more comfortable writing off the whole interaction as a silly joke, because it's easier and causes less discomfort than having to seriously evaluate ideas like "nonwhite eugenicists" and "how easy it is for our protagonist to internalize racial pseudoscience". It's related to the way that many white leftists (ie. Vaush) love to shit on Hoteps all day rather than acknowledge the complexities of black radicalist ideology. Cause haha, isn't it hilarious that there are black people who believe they're superior to white people? Isn't that ridiculous?
☝️ ya
I think what’s important to understand about HDB and Elysium is that in another fantasy world Harry would’ve been thee chosen one. his birth is almost biblical in its description, born to a single mother, surrounded by dying communards? A blizzard raging outside?
He has Magic Powers. He’s smart, sensitive, fit. He has the energy and insane drive to make the world Better. He doesn’t want to hurt anyone.
Nothing lays this out more than the Greatest Innocence. Harry is an avatar of the world spirit, a mirror held up to all of Elysium. So many characters see themselves reflected in him.
Except Innocences aren’t actually real. They’re the narrative's way of ripping apart the Great Men Of History concept. They’re an elected position. They’re people who commit mass scale atrocities and claim those atrocities were an inevitability after the fact.
Harry is in essence what Innocences claim to be. So he will never be one. He's a disabled nobody from an occupied nation the world left behind.
the thing about the RCM's role in Revachol as an occupied nation with no self governance is that it gives us the most horrific of both worlds
first responders, building inspectors, etc are given guns to shoot people
dumb thugs who just want to shoot people are now your first responders, building inspectors etc
hell world!! Kim's civil service thing was clearly medical care and he’s killed seven people!!!
and like I’ve said this makes the prospect of quitting even harder for people like Harry and Kim who desperately want to do good for their city and the people in it. but they fundamentally can’t. they just can’t under the current system.
Harry can see that a building is about to collapse with everyone in it but he can’t do anything about it, other than forcibly remove the people inside.
Can you elaborate on kim doing medical care? Genuinely curious
Yeah! Kim is able to keep a critically injured Harry stable and able to walk after getting shot in the hip/upper thigh and possibly shoulder, removing his bullets. He also spent a year in processing, working on dead bodies. Which probably served as some makeshift anatomy studying.
thinking about how much harry remembers again and how if you work at it from the perspective that he knows abouttt as much as the player does, yeah thats as good as dead to Jean. We know like three things more about Jean after his debrief on the pier. I really do think even if the mannerisms are the same, as far as partnership goes this makes Harry basically a different person than pre martinaise. I'm not saying anything ground breaking it's just plaguing me tonight that jean has to resume working with the overt replacement to his dead friend. I think he should maybe bawl his eyes out once he finally realizes this.
