I love the new frankenstein movie but now people on tiktok are giving the absolute worst takes about my absolute favourite book and I think I’m going to die
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@pisstickle
I love the new frankenstein movie but now people on tiktok are giving the absolute worst takes about my absolute favourite book and I think I’m going to die
Okay so i finally checked a suspicion I’ve had for a while and ive realised i was right. I think a few people have talked about Whizzer dropping the falsetto in Marvin Hits Trina and how it originally helped to sort of compare them/show solidarity (I’ve seen a few different interpretations on this although most of them I think are pretty flimsy). But i think what people miss is that Trina is actually now singing down with Whizzer.
new ship dynamic called schrodinger’s divorce where characters are simultaneously bitterly divorced and fondly married for twenty years
Marvin when whizzer teaches his son how to not suck at baseball:
I’m thinking about a post i made a while ago about the differences in the way Cordelia and Charlotte are often depicted online. I can’t find it now but I wanted to add something.
Because it’s often written as if Marvin was just a complete pathetic mess until The Lesbians (also kinda weird that the fandom talks about them as if they’re a single unit, it was a funny joke in the show. I get it. shut up now) swooped in and mothered him until he was a decent person. As if he was some snivelling child with no independency whom The Lesbians had to teach right from wrong and not an adult who fucked up and is trying to fix his mistakes. The way some of you write their relationship makes it hard to understand why either Charlotte or Cordelia want to be his friends. And it’s a disservice to Marvin’s character because this is exactly what he did in his relationship with Trina — treating her like a mother. Writing it this way doesn’t give him any growth at all, it just doubles down on the same issue.
Yes, they helped him a lot, but by being there as friends, as examples of a healthy queer relationship. Not by treating him like a fucking baby.
Begging on my knees for you all to realise how perfect and amazing Trina is, she’s the queen of her game and I will hear nothing other than praise for this wonderful woman for EXISTING!!!!! She’s a chubby middle aged divorced wife who has just enough spunk to knock you out of your seats and stomp on your head and just enough tragedy to hold you like you’re okay after WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?? DO YOU NOT WANT A CHUBBY MIDDLE AGED WOMAN YOU COWARDS??
marvdel sharing a dildo lady and the tramp style
okay but lowkey need christian borle to play dr frank n furter
the Addams family musical looks like if you took the Addams family and everything that makes them who they are and then shit all over it but whatever bc ive already accepted my role and I like this theatre company
Chubby dudes on me chubby dudes on me chubby dudes sitting on my face chubby middle aged man who divorced his wife and ran off with a friend sitting on my face chubby dudes on me
Do you watch shows aimed at little kids?
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i'm digging the hole deeper tomorrow
It should not taste so good when the moisturiser gets in my mouth
they don’t even know they have my other accounts blocked
people are so desperate for a queer jason they can project upon but they ignore the only real interpretation that still fits the themes of the show (transfem jason)
I had the same thought about “if nothing goes wrong”! Is his dad being transphobic like if he doesn’t realize he’s not a man or is his dad just meaning like barring he dies before reaching adulthood?
Well im definitely not saying Marvin’s transphobic. Marvin’s expressing his own feelings of his failure to be a man and all the mistakes he’s made and reassuring Jason that masculinity doesn’t have to mean just one thing. That nothing will make him less of a man. I think the ‘if nothing goes wrong’ is really just his way of adding some levity to a heavy conversation.
I’m just saying that this emphasis on becoming a man throughout the show, especially from marvin, could potentially provide a point of conflict once he’s gone if Jason did realise he’s not a man and it would fit within the themes of masculinity and gender roles already explored.
Ok so I haven’t posted anything about this before, but I feel as though I have to now because this obsession is taking over my life.
The Marvin Trilogy: My Speculations about Marvin’s sexual trauma
(Surprisingly, I’ve seen almost no one talk about this)
Cw: Pedophila, SA, mention of suicidality
For this, I am taking from both the 1979 album and the 1985 rewrite of In Trousers.
So, the elephant in the room: Set those sails. When I first watched the Trinity College production, the entire song gave me a sense of unease unlike anything else. There’s this whole depiction of Mrs. Goldberg stripping in front of Marvin, a 14 year old, and then Marvin backing away and watching all of the ladies sing. I want to note here how Marvin doesn’t sing in this at all. Then the song ends, and Mrs. Goldberg claims the entire song was a highschool fantasy by Marvin. See, I don’t doubt that parts of it were definitely made up, but I think Mrs. Goldberg coming onto Marvin was not. To me, Set those sails is Marvin’s interpretation of his teacher’s assault. He’s trying to justify his uncomfortableness by imagining this scenario is a sort of “wake up call” to manhood. The references to how a good man never fails or loses his nerve, or how men account for the appetite of all, is him trying to tell himself he should’ve enjoyed it. A “good man” in Marvin eyes, is someone who has incredible resolve to his heterosexuality, and always lusts for women. What better a way to prove that than to pretend he enjoyed being assaulted?
Next, I want to note the differences between Set those sails and the R—- of Mrs. Goldberg. The r of Mrs. Goldberg is incredibly childish, and it’s clearly stated at the beginning that it’s a fantasy by Marvin. In this song, Marvin has the control. He’s the hero who takes Mrs. Goldberg instead of the other way around. He has no clear understanding of what sex actually is, and just wants the absolute power that is implied with it. I personally like the interpretation that Marvin made fantasies of having control to cope with being assaulted. I also like the interpretation that this song is a story he made up to tell others in order to “prove” his heterosexuality. As I briefly mentioned earlier, the behavior of Marvin between the 2 songs is also very stark. In set those sails, Marvin actively tries to get away from Mrs. Goldberg and stays absolutely silent. This is extremely uncharacteristic of Marvin, especially at this age. He always acts out, he always yells, except for this song. This deeply contrasts the R of Mrs. Goldberg, where Marvin is loud and happy, as usual. I take this to mean that Set those sails is one of the few moments where he is truly paralyzed.
There are a few references to Mrs. Goldberg’s misconduct in Highschool sweetheart as well, even if they are a stretch. Marvin says “She gives me words to say” and while this is obviously a reference to the script, it might also be her telling Marvin to lie about what happened. There’s also Mrs. Goldberg saying “Stop making me crazy, Marvin” which is obviously about his unruly behavior, but might also be about her sexual feelings towards him.
As for how this ties into the main theme of misogyny, misogyny affects all. The idea that women are docile and innocent, and men are sex crazed is a product of misogyny. Marvin holding this belief actively hurts him over and over again, blaming himself for not living up to this standard. I truly have no idea if this is what William Finn intended, but I find it interesting how it all fits.
Moving on from childhood, let’s talk about Nausea before the game. Besides probably being my favorite song in the whole show, it gives a whole lot of insight as to how Marvin feels about sex now that he’s presumably experienced it. The constant references to games are important here, I feel like. Marvin absolutely loves winning. He even says that winning is everything to him in The Chess Game. Marvin would do anything to win, including forcing himself through intercourse he desperately does not want to have. It’s implied that he literally throws up afterwards, trying to purge himself of his shame. He even prays for it to stop, but inevitably, it never does. And of course this all stems from his internalized homophobia, and the added layer of possibly being assaulted as a child just makes the entire situation even more tragic. Having sex with Trina could *literally* be bringing back traumatic experiences. This also makes me feel for Trina, because she did nothing wrong. She just wants love, but Marvin is so fucked up. There’s also even more references to being inappropriately touched in highschool with the line “It's anxiety when you recall girls who touch you when you're walking down the hall.”
My chance to survive the night just further elaborates how much Marvin hates being heterosexual. I find the word “survive” to be very peculiar in this case. It went from “winning” sex to “surviving” it. This might imply how worn out he is because of all of this, focusing his attention to his literal survival than his pride. It might also imply suicidal thoughts during sex, leading to him just wanting to live through it, although that might be a stretch. (Marvin’s suicidality is a whole other can of worms that I’d love to get into in another post). One thing though, I don’t actually know if My chance to survive the night is before or after Nausea before the game, but it has a similar implication either way. Anyway, there’s one verse in the song I want to note. Marvin says sex as a dance, but he describes all the movements very objectively, and notes how he isn’t very lucid about it. This might be a sign of disassociation, which is a common trauma response. Another thing from this song is that he says he wants to sleep, but the phone will ring (Presumably a call to intimacy). And this theme of wanting to sleep but not being able to is a theme throughout the whole musical. There’s a reference to it in Nausea before the game with “If I touch her would she let me fall asleep?”, and many references in “I can’t sleep”, but I think that song is more about how Marvin’s ex lovers haunt him in general.
Next up, I want to talk about Your lips and me reprise. This really digs into the whole “Marvin’s ex lovers are haunting him” deal. This is the first time we really see Marvin actually acknowledge the ladies’ accompaniment for his songs, and it’s because of his guilt for making up a story about Mrs. Goldberg. I think Marvin thinking about this in one of his most private places, his shower, just shows how much this affected him, even in adulthood. The line “My body is not yours to hold” by Mrs. Goldberg is extremely powerful, and I think it could have multiple meanings. It’s Marvin’s guilt about fantasizing about her, yes, but it could also be him finally accepting that what he and Mrs. Goldberg did wasn’t supposed to happen. The ensuing panic attack is caused by Marvin’s perception of his childhood crashing around him. If anyone has seen lars_orange’s animatic of this song on YouTube, I really love their depiction of Marvin recovering from his panic attack. He thinks about Whizzer, and he breathes. This is where Marvin takes a victory shower starts. He’s not ashamed anymore. (Unrelated, but is it just me or is this song seem like Marvin taking a shower after having sex with Whizzer? It’s referenced in How America got its name that Columbus planned to take a shower after he and Amerigo spent so much time together.)
Finally, I want to talk about Another sleepless night. Specifically the 1985 version. This gives a clue into how passionate Whizzer and Marvin are, even before The thrill of first love. There is one key difference in the lyrics from the college production to the actual lyrics. In the actual lyrics, there’s a line, “I’m feeling hot. He'll close his eyes, and then surprise: I'll be awake and performing” but the college production changes it to “He’s feeling hot. I’ll close my eyes, and then surprise: I'll be awake and performing”. The actual lyrics enforce Marvin’s need for homosexual intimacy, which feels very in character for him at this point. He’s craving anything other than heterosexual sex and he finally has that in Whizzer. The college lyrics paint a completely different picture, implying that Whizzer is the one who wants passion. Then Marvin says “He'll wanna sleep, but asks for more. To put up with a guy like myself must be a bore.” This suggests Marvin still feels a sense of guilt for not being able to give what others want from him. These different interpretations bring completely different meanings to the line “But he sleeps in this bed, with me, a survivor.” For the original lyrics, the connotation of “survivor” is positive; he’s survived his trauma and able to move on. For the college production, it’s negative; he still feels fragile or insecure because of what he’s been through. Ultimately it ends semi positively with both versions saying that Marvin’s never felt more alive.
Ok, god damn that was a lot of words. Short story, Marvin is hells of fucked up, and I really really really love the Marvin trilogy
this is a perspective i have considered before and i will say i dont really think it’s what happened, and I dont agree with all your lyrical interpretations, but there is a theme of Miss Goldberg (or at least Marvin’s projection of her) treating him as more mature than he really is (i know there’s lines about her giving him private lessons or teaching him content not normally taught to his year level).
To me this is more to show how Marvin sees her as a maternal role model/someone to project his fantasies onto. Miss Goldberg allows him to act out this heroic role of Columbus, but then sometimes treats him like a petty child in contrast to his Sweetheart who reminds him that’s he’s (just) a person. This also contrasts Trina’s “love me for what I am, not what i try to be” - Marvin does not want to be seen for who he is.
But I think alternate lenses like this are interesting to consider when there’s enough to back it up without completely going against the themes of the show.