Zero days since being frustrated that a certain subset of the fandom (we all know which ones) act as if Luci is or should be the protagonist instead of Charlie, leaving aside the fact that he doesn't have enough or even consistent characterization to be even become part of the main cast, or the very problematic part of wanting to throw aside the female protagonist in favor of her freaking father...
It's the fact that despite that I do agree that she is severely underwritten and this season did her no favors whatsoever, not even musically, I still want to cheer for Charlie, perhaps not in a whole 'I believe in you girl' and more like yes she is not a well-written protagonist but she still the protagonist and she better stay that way, okay?
That once upon a time, we were told that Viv had designed and imagined Lilith as Lady Gaga, so I'm guessing that unlike Charlie, whose musical style is more into musicals, she's actually going to be more or a "dark diva" type? Maybe?
Since again, we have been told that s3 is going to focus in the Morningstar family, I'm hoping they'll take full advantage of that, I'm specially looking forward for a duet between Charlie and Lilith, anything to get some delicious crumbs of their relationship as mother and daughter please.
I highly doubt that as much as Amazon loves this series, they'll actually pay to have the actual Lady Gaga voicing her (maaaybe, just as the singing voice, and that's still a very big maybe imo) but I hope that they find someone who can keep the same vibe.
It's very weird to find charlastor shippers who... uh... how do I say this? Lack self-awareness I think? And at the same time that defend charlastor with fervor, they turn around and start shiting on other m/f ships who are also hated by their respective fandoms for veeery similar reasons if not practically the same reasons (i.e. the fandom prefers the m/m fanon ship, the female character has misogynistic writing, the creator is biased against it, shippers are accused of being problematic or some sort of apologist, etc) and when someone points it out they offended, if not downright angry that how do they dare to compare their precious ships against those "garbage" ships or whatever.
Like, dude, nobody is saying that you have to ship every other of these ships, but look at you, you are fighting in the same trenches that these shippers are also defending and somehow you still believe yourself to have the moral high-ground?
One of the most common redflags from these types of shippers is that they fail very hard at pretending they actually care about the girlies in these ships, some are a little better at pretending because the say all the right things, they seem constantly angry and offended that the female character in question isn't written better, they callout other shippers about how they are the ones focusing only in the guy character or complain about how no one ever talks about the misogyny in the writting, which again, it all sounds good, becuase, yes those are valid talking points, in fact, very often they pick fights or vague about other fans who supposedly do this... but you don't ever see them actually discussing these issues, they mention it like parrots over and over and don't seem to elaborate that much, and especially you never see them interact with the fans who actually do talk about this at lenght.
Because they don't actually care, when you deep dive into their posts about the ship, you start notice a pattern where they almost exclusively gush and hype the guy character, they share post only with him, and the girl on the other hand? They only ever share or talk about her in relation to the guy, and never share or talk about the girl on her own.
There's a very quick way to check if they do this, it's actually very simple.
Just ask them anything specific about the girl, their thoughts or opninions on her, it doesn't have to be anything important you can just ask them headcanons or theories or even just to share why they like her.
Chances are they won't even answer, they'll ignore you or deflect about either talking about the guy or default to parrot the same drivel about how sad is that she is so poorly written, "I hate the creators so much grrrr", at best they may give a generic answer like "she deserves better" or "she should have had more screentime/focus" and that's it.
It's very weird to find charlastor shippers who... uh... how do I say this? Lack self-awareness I think? And at the same time that defend charlastor with fervor, they turn around and start shiting on other m/f ships who are also hated by their respective fandoms for veeery similar reasons if not practically the same reasons (i.e. the fandom prefers the m/m fanon ship, the female character has misogynistic writing, the creator is biased against it, shippers are accused of being problematic or some sort of apologist, etc) and when someone points it out they offended, if not downright angry that how do they dare to compare their precious ships against those "garbage" ships or whatever.
Like, dude, nobody is saying that you have to ship every other of these ships, but look at you, you are fighting in the same trenches that these shippers are also defending and somehow you still believe yourself to have the moral high-ground?
Plot bunnies and ideas of what could be Charlie's development other than daddy issues and dating misscomunication:
She is essentially half demon and half angel, you'd think that part of her character would be more explored, is this something that bothers her? Being essentially a child of two worlds? Thinking how her own blood and flesh are the ones doing the exterminations?
Her powers, and to be clear this is not me trying to apply powerscaling shounen logic to the series, and if the series didn't focus at all in fighting then I would let it slide, but as it turns out, it is important and plot-relevant so what exactly are her powers? Does she have purely demonic power or did she inherit some angelic ones from Luci? I remember a long time ago there was a stream where they said that Charlie supposedly had wings, does she still have them? Is she also bound to the same rules as Luci and presumably Lilith?
Why isn't she involved at all in the hellborn politics of Hell? Damn, why isn't she involved at all in Hell's politics? Why does she only move in the wrath circle? Do the hellborn resent her for caring only about the sinners? Do they even care about the princess of Hell? Was she completelly sheltered until Lilith vanished? It's truly wild that she's our protagonist and we don't know much of anything about her if you ask me.
I keep wondering if her past relationship with Seviathan is still canon or not? What about her rivalry with his sister? Like, those were all crumbs from the pilot era but at least they existed, and let us know that maybe past!Charlie could have been your typical clueless socialite who didn't care much about anything beyond the little world that her parents created for her, in fact, if they gave her that backstory it could actually help explain why despite having the best intentions her narrow mindset gets in the way of her actually helping sinners.
Which leads me to what was the catalyst for Charlie to start caring?? I mean, at this point it's likely that they're not gonna give her anything of the sort and they're just gonna make it so that she was always unusually kind and compassionate blah blah, because character depth? I don't know her right?
Lastly, what's up with her having heaven and redemption in such high regard? Luci has been shown to diss heaven and despise them and we know that Lilith clamored for hell to resist against them? So why did Charlie believed they could be reasoned with and all considering that she was born from and raised by the two figures in the hellaverse who suffered so much because of heaven? Maybe this could tie to her possibly sheltered upbringing, maybe her parents downplayed the conflict between hell and heaven to protect her, but it still begs the question, why? What was the point?
I think I'm beyond the point of trying to care about Viv's drama.
(Warning for incoming rant and ramblings)
I'll continue with this blog sporadically, but I will stop focusing on her drama and just on the writing of hazbin, it just makes me kind of sad how easily she made so many immature and dumb stuff in less than 6 months that it made me go from remaining neutral but still supportive on her, to downright critical because dear lord, I feel like the fandom should keep a counter for every time she promises to stop getting involved in drama only for something to happen less than a month afterwards, at this point my legit reaction to these promises is this:
The even sadder part is that Viv herself mentioned once that fandom circles are already very critical and unforgiving of female creators, doubly so for female indie creators, that already happens all the time without them needing to do anything (just look what happened to poor Goose) and it really it's only a matter of time, she'll obviously keep poking the bear, in fact, sometimes I think that she keeps doing the things she does because she's following some twisted logic of matching the haters' energy or something? Idk? And somehow that devolved into her current behavior where she can't seeminly tell the difference between defending yourself and plain bullying and punching down on her own fandom, and you know what? At one point it will blow on her face, and when that happens and she's no longer seen as an indie darling, she'll see how the bullies and enablers that she seems to think as friends will all abandon her once they see they don't the benefit of a power trip and moral highground from her and let her take the fall.
And to be clear, I'm not wishing this on her (or anyone) I'm simply stating that this is how it has always been and Viv will not be the exception, plain and simple, I can only hope, once more, that she'll gain some sense before shit hits the fan for her.
I'm not going to say anything about the deaftone comments that Viv and her crew said about Val, I think everyone already said everthing.
BUT, this fandom, dear lord, never fails delivering the casual misogyny
The apologists in this fandom definitely don't let down this time either, how is it that I keep seeing excuses after excuses for this mothman, not even in a 'yeah I like that he's awful' way, but genuinely babying him, while I still have to see the most ridiculous accusations thrown at the female characters? Like just a couple weeks ago I stumbled upon a thread trash-talking Emily because, and I kid you not, they argued that since she wants sinners aka. murderers and rapists in heaven, then she is not really that good of a person... all the while gushing and adoring a character that is actually guilty of those crimes??
Sorry, I think I'm jumping into the "Rosie is Eve" or at least "Rosie is an entity related to Eve" theory.
Why? keep reading to find out
At the very least I think the lore part of her not being a sinner could still be canon, I think this part is a very warm take because I think most fans do think the same due to some hints in s2, how she was able to grant such power to Alastor, how despite supposedly being a feared overlord, Vox never even attempts to sway her to his side (maybe because she's not a sinner and Vox was only seeking those?), can't be because she's older when he even went to Zestial, the strange interest she shows in Charie and her hotel etc.
But I'd like to focus on her ongoing aesthetic with the roses.
Yes, this is obvious, I know I'm not blowing anyone's mind by saying this, is not just in her name, she is always accompanied by roses it seems, as a human Al's ritual set up had roses in it, her magic symbolizing her deal with Al was shaped like a golden rose vine, and cannibal town has an overabundance of roses, but especially thorny vines of roses
And when I went to do my standard research... I found nothing in christian lore about roses beyond the growing link of roses and Mary, how roses have been linked to the afterlife since before christianity, but also found several references about how "Mary is a rose and Eve is a thorn"
And that's how I found the legend (meaning it was not in the bible, more like oral tradition?) about how roses were first found in the Garden of Eden, and back then, they had no thorns, these only sprouted after the Fall of Man, which as you know was believed to be Eve's fault especially at the time.
In fact, the bible doesn't mention a lot of flowers, but it does mention a lot of thorns, always linking them to sins and suffering.
And, while I the next part is a LOT of guesswork, I do want to mention that there's another character who at least in concept art, seems to also have been linked to a flower:
I wanna be very clear that I did the best research I could and I found absolutely no relation either biblical or folklore between Lilith and lily flowers, at best I found that some variants of water lilies are night-blooming and Lilith's name means "night demon" according to some sources, but these old concept art does seem to be representing her with these flowers, I know it's a cartoon style and hard to tell, but they are drawn with the shape of the petals and the stems characteristic of most of these flowers.
What I'm trying to say is that I find it weirdly coincidental that two characters in the series are linked with flowers, roses and lilies, both flowers that hold some meaning in christianity, both linked to the sacred, to the virgin Mary and which also symbolize purity, linked instead to two sinner entities of hell.
Oh, and before I forget, what is this if not another official illustration Liltih with roses and an attire that looks suspiciously holy?
Is it possible that Rosie and Liltih go waaaaaay back? Is it possible that they were both the "flowers" of the Garden of Eden that were "corrupted" and brought evil (sin) onto the world?
You see, the problem with trying to be critical of the hellaverse is that you always need to double or even triple check that someone isn't an anti, hater or the people who hate it solely for the premise, and you're constantly having to clarify, that no, you're not with them
I love so much that charlastor is more popular in the JP fandom because not only we get gorgeous fanart, they also have to make merch catering towards the shippers, on top of it, JP fans don't really care for anything happening in the western fandom nor about anything Viv says
Literally, because the last time any of those people tried to pull that type of shit with a JP artist (not in this fandom fyi) it resulted in them making a full guide on how to spot antis and avoid them, resulting in a mass block from asian artists that had them making the most hilarious tantrums I've seen.
Because apparently some RAs and Ch*ggi3 are using guest comments to harrass charlastor fic writers, please take note:
Don't engage into their rage baiting, don't reply to them, nothing, nada.
Don't delete them immediatly, I know it sounds backwards, but don't do it, instead write a report to the Ao3 team, this type of behaviour is a ToS violation and you should absolutely do so, they may be guest comments but they can check the email they used and the IP address it came from, you can do it here
If they continue, lock guest comments, or turn moderation of comments, I know it sucks, but sometimes it has to be done.
I just watched the Sarchastic Chorus video on the second season of Hazbin Hotel
I don't necessarily agree with everything said in the video, but I give him credit in give a mostly unbiased opinion on the parts that worked and didn't of the season, and especially with little to zero shipping bias, it's long but I recommend you to watch it.
And his criticism of Charlie is among the parts I definitely can agree.
One of the thing that I like about Charlastor is that with them a corruption arc can and will go both ways. Alastor corrupting Charlie by making her accept her darker sides without losing herself and Charlie corrupting Alastor into being a better person and to accept that letting other people in isn't a weakness. "I can fix him - I can make her worst" at its finest.
Charlastor antis are so odd is Charlastor bad because they’re father and daughter or is it bad because Alastor is manipulating Charlie. Please make up your mind
