[rainbowdazzle]

No Finn didn’t write the jokes. But yes hosts of the show do have a say in skits and jokes they do or don’t want to do for whatever reason. It’s not like ST where you perform what’s on the page with no say. SNL is collaborative with its hosts and always has been. So it’s a complicated thing and I can see why both fans are defending him and also mad at him.

IMO Finn did not set out to offend multiple groups maliciously here folks, and he doesn’t deserve the level of hate I am seeing which is unhinged, but also he is not fully blameless in the equation as he sat down during a whole week of collaborative sessions with the cast and table reads and dress rehearsals and thought those jokes were fine enough for them to get to air. He is both not guilty of the horrible crimes people are throwing at him and also not entirely some innocent little thing with zero autonomy in the situation and queer people who are hurt are 100% valid (as are women because wtf was that monologue joke about the demigorgon? did a 13 year old incel write that?!?)

both things can be true.

but more than that, people have got to learn how to regulate their emotions! they have got to learn how to handle disappointment and offense and anger without going right into becoming the types of people they claim to stand against. being mad at a homophobic joke by slinging homophobic slurs back at him? what??? going straight from zero to threats of violence and body shaming and nasty insults? what does that solve?

two wrongs do not make a right and if your offense is a moral based one, behaving just as, if not *more* immorally in return, doesn’t make you right it just makes you equally as stupid

if you are mad, feel those feelings, but feel them in a productive way that doesn’t just equate to unchecked hate cause that has never once helped us progress as a society and there is a valid issue here with casual homophobia making a resurgence, and unfortunately that topic gets overshadowed when it becomes buried under social media temper tantrums

[rainbowdazzle]

they had no interest in writing? oooh divorce gate and stole the pilot script gate are real to me. yikes

[rainbowdazzle]

Remember this? I know this is all alleged but I also remember they mentioned that the alleged tea was about everyone not just the young cast. And I hate to say it, just cause the idea fills me with deep sadness but, seeing how the show ended and how the creators treated Noah… I sincerely wonder that if this was true if this wasn’t one of the Duffers

back in the day I thought maybe this coulda been David (just because he’s from a different gen and has a jokey personality that maybe coulda made a joke that didn’t land) and while now it’s clear he has some issues going on, I doubt Millie woulda been cool with him at the premiere and stuff if he had done this to her bestie, but one of the Duffers? That’s a diff story(they are her bosses. whole diff power imbalance there). And seeing how they had no shame and no hesitation in telling Noah they would write him out, onstage in front of his coworkers and a huge audience of people, and how they basically asked if Noah was too gay in the epilogue, nothing would surprise me anymore. And with the resurfaced video of them punching the Noah doll in s2 like idk I get truly sinister vibes from them and an offensive gay joke feels right up their alley considering how they treated Will like one big gay joke in the end 😭

[rainbowdazzle]

So after all is said and done these are some things I fully believe until disproven.

The Duffers are not the driving creative force behind the show. Or at least the best parts of the show. They had a ghost writer/s who were the geniuses behind it all and at some point they were gone and the bros couldn’t keep up the quality and lore . Be it Ross’s ex wife or someone else. I also seriously believe it’s possible they stole the idea/script for the show as was alleged by someone. That’s a bit tinhatty but ya know… the finale was so so bad I can’t not go there.

The Duffers are greedy and lazy yes, but I also believe they were on board with byler up until season 5 and then something changed before vol 2.Despite them saying Netflix wasn’t interfering, I don’t believe that and I think it’s proven that the Duffers lie constantly and since they still have a show upcoming with them (the supernatural nursing home show) it behooves them to play nice with Netflix still. I do not think it’s a coincidence that the biggest show on their platform abandons the gay storyline it was building up for years, that woulda been controversial to many, as well as have big repercussions in more conservative markets (all leading to loss of $$) especially right when Netflix are trying to acquire Warner Bros and the deal has already faced scrutiny from lawmakers and Donald Trump himself. Netflix wants this deal to land, so making nice with Trump and not rocking the boat with too much ~wokeness~ helps that agenda(just look how Elon responded simply to Will coming out? ). And yes the platform has queer shows and content but ST is not just a ~queer only show that can be ignored and brushed aside. It’s THE biggest show in the world. It’s the cornerstone of the platform and probably its biggest money maker not only in steams but sheer breadth or merchandising. It’s their cash cow. And this would not be the first time people cow tow to please Trump. We have had a multitude of people, businesses and even news channels bend the knew to Trump.

And last but not least, The Duffers probably laundered some of that 450 mill budget because why the hell does a lot of the show look so BAD lol

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

For the record, the "I like Dick" line was a gay joke at Will's expense. You see him look around nervously and fidget with his hands. Even though Robin says it, he feels like all eyes are on him. It's probably the only reason they had Mike look at him instead of just looking perplexed.

They made sure he was humiliated this season.

Fuck the Duffers

[rainbowdazzle]

and WTF was the point of the pipe scene? a singular d1ck joke. ok whatever. I can overlook that. But an elaborate bursting pipe= d1ck extended sequence which tortured the gay actor by blasting cold water into his face take after take while he laid on the hard ground, holding hands with the character that wouldn’t love him back?!? all for what exactly? to mock him? to mock his sexuality???????????? to humiliate Noah????

FOR WHAT

[rainbowdazzle]

I swear to God if I see Noah (or Finn or both) start crying when the awful “friends no best friends” scene is read out in the documentary (if they are brave enough to even include that) then I will GODZILLA STOMP the town

[rainbowdazzle]

guys I love you and everyone has to do something to cope with enormous disappointment but… there is not another secret episode coming. This is not an ARG. It’s over. I am seeing the same exact type of posts that went around after Sherlock ended horribly. The same kind of posts I clung to as well years ago after getting my heart stomped on but nothing ever came even though the ideas thrown around, much like today, were effin brilliant. Sherlock, another show where the fans thought it was deeper and smarter than it was. Another show where fans fans cared more, were better at crafting the story and understanding the characters, and where the creators were shown to just be petty narcissists who hated their fanbase in the end.

I don’t say this to be mean or squash your fun, just so that you can start your process of healing and moving past this. If you want to create fix it fics or art and use the idea of conformity gate or whatever to help craft that, that is an amazing idea, but I don’t want to see anyone get hurt again because fans are once again smarter and better writers than the Duffers.

go forth and create the art that those two doofuses would never be able to do and take pride in that realization

[rainbowdazzle]

one last thing. Duffers. Don’t think I didn’t notice you sexualizing Will in your show as soon as you could—with the super tight pants he wore all s4 and the lingering body shots of him in said pants (like the famous crouching down in the desert scene where the camera lingered on him, that was used in a bunch of thirst edits), the butt staring by Mike (which had to have been a stage direction because it’s too noticeable to not be) and the way that whole scene was framed in the first place is intentional with his butt facing right to the audience, and then all the s5 d1ck jokes and pipe bursting scene that ultimately had no relevance to anything—but not bothering to give Will actual love onscreen which is all he ever wanted. so basically to you gay men are just sexual objects to fetishize, joke about or degrade, but not someone worth love or romance. You are weirdos

I feel like the duffers need to unpack this in therapy cause yeah

[smalltowngrey]

...were people not celebrating and constantly joking about all these things when they thought it was Byler evidence.

I'm not even being rude I am just wondering why the switch up now. Seems kind of hypocritical.

[rainbowdazzle]

@nocturnalgrey the “switch up” is because back then it seemed like those things were part of setting up mike and will’s relationship, starting to showcase their growing attraction to each other which is an important and valid part of the coming of age experience to explore, (like seeing Will in Mike’s pov as someone he was attracted to. his triple take in the desert felt like that’s what they were doing) and that things like the d1ck jokes and pipe scene had a deeper more meta meaning enough to be included in the first place, but instead it was not. it was nothing but cheap jokes

so if you’re not using these things to help further the narrative of two closested queer boys who are finding their way towards accepting their sexualities and love for each other, then what are you doing here? narratively? and I could accept if in the end it was showing mike as someone who was gonna stay closeted but the duffers then said byler was never happening so what was that all for if that’s the actual truth?

[smalltowngrey]

I understand. But all I'm reading here is that this stuff would have been A-OK if it was to further Byler. Aka everyone hand-waved the "sexualization" aspect of it was to further the story. And it's true. Because I was there to witness it lol.

Anyway, don't let the creators gaslight you into believing this stuff wasn't for Byler's relationship, no matter how the ending turned out.

[rainbowdazzle]

@nocturnalgrey I can’t speak for others views on this, I know fandom can be quite conservative about a lot of things, and I am not normally one of those types. I don’t agree with a lot of the pearl clutching in this fandom it gives me 80s Reagan era conservatism honestly. But the stuff I mentioned I didn’t think it was inappropriate or ~weird back then because I thought it had a *point* in the story which was why it was included. It fits in the story I thought they were telling, to show they are two gay boys attracted to each other. They are teen boys starting to notice that and also struggling with that. It makes sense to see pov’s where you clock the burgeoning feelings that teen(queer teen!) boys go through. But without that story being part of the show, that’s when it becomes strange and exploitative because there was no point to many of their choices. It was just random stuff they threw in???

and I know the duffers are full of it but I can’t decide what lie is the right one. they’ve said so many I can’t decide if it all was byler but they chickened out in the end or it never was happening and they were just baiting weirdos who thought making the gay actor get on the ground and get soaking wet while holding a pipe in a room where “d1ck” was (per Robin) was a hilarious thing to do and not totally insane and creepy

thanks for your respectful discussion ♥️

[rainbowdazzle]

do you think the duffers took the lovely wrap letters Noah wrote each of them and just tossed them in the trash like they did with his character?

[rainbowdazzle]

one last thing. Duffers. Don’t think I didn’t notice you sexualizing Will in your show as soon as you could—with the super tight pants he wore all s4 and the lingering body shots of him in said pants (like the famous crouching down in the desert scene where the camera lingered on him, that was used in a bunch of thirst edits), the butt staring by Mike (which had to have been a stage direction because it’s too noticeable to not be) and the way that whole scene was framed in the first place is intentional with his butt facing right to the audience, and then all the s5 d1ck jokes and pipe bursting scene that ultimately had no relevance to anything—but not bothering to give Will actual love onscreen which is all he ever wanted. so basically to you gay men are just sexual objects to fetishize, joke about or degrade, but not someone worth love or romance. You are weirdos

I feel like the duffers need to unpack this in therapy cause yeah

[smalltowngrey]

...were people not celebrating and constantly joking about all these things when they thought it was Byler evidence.

I'm not even being rude I am just wondering why the switch up now. Seems kind of hypocritical.

[rainbowdazzle]

@nocturnalgrey the “switch up” is because back then it seemed like those things were part of setting up mike and will’s relationship, starting to showcase their growing attraction to each other which is an important and valid part of the coming of age experience to explore, (like seeing Will in Mike’s pov as someone he was attracted to. his triple take in the desert felt like that’s what they were doing) and that things like the d1ck jokes and pipe scene had a deeper more meta meaning enough to be included in the first place, but instead it was not. it was nothing but cheap jokes

so if you’re not using these things to help further the narrative of two closested queer boys who are finding their way towards accepting their sexualities and love for each other, then what are you doing here? narratively? and I could accept if in the end it was showing mike as someone who was gonna stay closeted but the duffers then said byler was never happening so what was that all for if that’s the actual truth?

[rainbowdazzle]

one last thing. Duffers. Don’t think I didn’t notice you sexualizing Will in your show as soon as you could—with the super tight pants he wore all s4 and the lingering body shots of him in said pants (like the famous crouching down in the desert scene where the camera lingered on him, that was used in a bunch of thirst edits), the butt staring by Mike (which had to have been a stage direction because it’s too noticeable to not be) and the way that whole scene was framed in the first place is intentional with his butt facing right to the audience, and then all the s5 d1ck jokes and pipe bursting scene that ultimately had no relevance to anything—but not bothering to give Will actual love onscreen which is all he ever wanted. so basically to you gay men are just sexual objects to fetishize, joke about or degrade, but not someone worth love or romance. You are weirdos

I feel like the duffers need to unpack this in therapy cause yeah

[rainbowdazzle]

and maybe I am nitpicking now but the overuse of calling females b1tches in this season was jarring and idk if they said in in previous seasons but they said it a lot and it felt quite unnecessary and had a very nasty undertone to it

[rainbowdazzle]

watching the general audience reacting videos to the finale on reels and we are in hell. truly bottom of the barrel. never watching a straight show ever again I need creators and an audience who have brain cells to rub together

[rainbowdazzle]

now we know why millie said mike didn’t gaf about the painting in interviews. she was trying to warn us ya’ll

[rainbowdazzle]

remember when finn said he was sad and confused about the ending? lmao well we shoulda known. we are confused too

[rainbowdazzle]

so they really made Noah film a dramatic van scene for 12 flipping hours where he gives a coded confession of love to Mike all for it to mean nothing cause they never actually address it and he gets over his years long love for Mike in like 2 minutes once Vecna shows him some bad visions the show doesnt even bother to film and show the audience. And then they gave Noah that painting as a wrap gift after torturing him with yet another 12 hour scene of ritual humiliation because the duffers felt they had to ~get it out of the way and a hastily tacked on epilogue boyfriend who doesn’t have a single line that he probably had to ask to be included in the first place.

I cannot stress how badly I hate the duffers. And I think Noah hates them too. I’m glad that boy is in therapy.

[rainbowdazzle]

oh the duffers hate will hate will so bad WHAT IS THAT EPILOGUE HAIR?? omfg? one last humiliation ritual.

who is this gay friend they based Will on and why do they despise him? There has to be more to this story we need to crack it