2012 Ramona: Mona Lisa and Sexism again
I posted this on the tmnt2012 subreddit, where I have added images and many more photos to back up my claims and showcase what my arguments are based on.
Added thought - Character design:
Even though Mona Lisa has a beautiful character design (I like that she doesn’t have hair like the rest of the anthropomorphic characters) her character makes less sense than the male character designs. She doesn’t have hair or most of the conventionally attractive character attributes that so many shows put onto the female anthropomorphic characters compared to the male character (look at Lilo and Stitch and his love interest as an example).
However she is still designed to be more conventionally attractive than any of the male characters in tmnt 2012.
Look the mutants, as well as the male characters of her own alien species. The comparison between her, Salcomander and Neutralizer is still stark and influenced by the stereotypical gendernorms and beauty standards for women in real life.
Femininity can be great, amazing, I love feminine character as well as masculine characters.
However, my problem becomes that the Mona Lisa is told to us to be stronger than Raphael, and yet has noodle arms.
Another thing people praise is that the female love interest is taller than the male character, which, yes, I love tall gf x short bf, however the show does not actually framed that way most of the time and the height difference is far less than what the fandom makes it out to be. Comparing this to her very feminine, and delicate structure to Raph’s square one, Raph does still seem as the most solid object on most time on the screen, purely based on shape and body language, making him still framed as stronger and more dominant throughout the more serious or even just down to earth moments.
And that's not only the camera framing and how the different perspective and compositions make her not seem that big or strong as the show and fandom say. (Show don't tell, and we are only told this.)
I love feminine characters and think that we should represent women in all kinds of ways, traditionally feminine women included. I believe that femininity is just as much a strengths as any other.
My only grievance is that a lot of posts I see when interacting with TMNT 2012 is fans praising Mona Lisa, especially for being “strong and a good warrior,” which I disagree with and for a character who is from an alien species where the male characters look like Newtralizer or Sal Comander, her character design doesn’t showcase this strength or robust character that so SO many fans make her out to be. I feel like the amount of praise is undeserved.
Also, Mona Lisa is like only a few centimeters taller than Raphael, the turtle who is notoriously known for being short, all while Mona lisa is most often is in action and visually framed as smaller and weaker and more delicate, regardless of what is told to us.
Besides, if you compare her to the salamders you'll see the stark contrast (see the photos I added in the comments). Besides, the turtles are just short in general, Karai is taller than both Leo and Raph, and honestly now that I think about it, I don’t know how tall Mona Lisa is compared to… ANY of the other characters?
Well, maybe a Kraang droid? Which she’s shorter than. (Edit: there's not a single scene where I can find her stand besides other characters other than Raphael or Salcommander so it's extremely difficult to compare, however I found some scenes where she somewhat was in the frame with an utrom or kraang droid, and she is shorter than them... The writers try to sell her as taller, but won’t actually commit to it. I don’t think that I have seen her at all stand besides anyone other than her Salamander comander and Raphael.)
Either way, she’s clearly smaller and more fem than the male characters of her own species, and should therefore not be falsely advertised as anything else.
I actually saw ONE early design that had her look almost completely like the male salamanders with broad shoulders and no hips and head that directly went to neck, like a deformed burrito chip, and I’m so mad that she didn’t have that design, THAT would have been GREAT! And in lign with the treatment the male characters had.
I do understand why so many love it, and why you love Ramona, however I still really don’t like it.
This could be because Raph is my favorite turtle and I had so high expectations for his romance, wishing his romance to outshine all the other turtles’ romance, which it technically did, but only based on elimination, since the others sucked. People hyped it up, and I was so ready for finally an actual good ship, especially with Raph! A 10 out of 10 character only deserves a 10/10 romance with a 10/10 character.
Raphael, the character who is sarcastic, hilarious, agressive and angry, impulsive, a jerk at times but deep down a softie. Someone who cares about both strangers and especially the people close to him and will stay loyal and brave for them. Raphael, the one who had the most heart to heart moments with all the different characters.
I was so tired and disappointed with the other ships: LeoRai revealed as being incest (I loved and shipped them before that reveal) Donnie and April being dragged out with little to no development or resulotion, and Mikey and Renet being unnecessary, forced and a bit boring.
So when I later heard from the fandom that Raph got a girlfriend in season 4 and that they were the best couple in the show and amazing, I WAS SO EXCITED, I had so high expectations and so high hopes. I was so ready to throw my own fanfic idea that I haven’t written, out the window for Mona Lisa.
Spoiler alert, I was severely disappointed…
Raph is 10/10 character writing. 4/10 relationship, 0/10 character writing for Mona Lisa.
Yes, they are objectively the best ship in the show, but that’s only because of process of elimination, not because it is well written.
Them being together is cute! Especially on Raph’s part; it elevates his character a lot, by giving him this sweet, good boyfriend side, however them getting together was extremely rushed and their relationship seems more to be a forced nudge for the fans than actually the writers wanting to add an interesting character that happens to be compatible with Raph.
Yes, it was nice to see Raph so soft with her, and yes it was funny that she lifted him up to kiss him.
However that’s the only good part, how it elevated *him*. It was made to make *him* shine and be cute. I have a lot of gripes with the writing and the pacing and ESPECIALLY the character writing for Mona.
That’s something I’m gonna dig deeper into, but for now I will start out with their development of the romance (not the romance itself, because that part is really adorable).
##Break down of Moons of thalos 3 going, analysis of the script and character action,
because we still have to imagine that they are complete strangers to each other:
>A white space ship crashed into a vessel, making them all collide into icy dead moon, where they will surely die if they don’t act quickly.
>Two blue aliens observes these strange outworlders that have rammed into their vessel, and they have no idea if these strange aliens
>Blue alien one: Yes, and they're heading towards the Irrilium.[Throaty croak.]
>Blue alien two: We must capture it before they do.
>Blue alien one: Let us destroy the interlopers and take the Irrilium for ourselves. They robbed us of glorious battle.
>Blue alien two: Still, when I gaze upon them, I see their courage. Others would have despaired, but they go onward as comrades. I can respect them.
>Blue alien one: No! You know that is not the Salamandrian way, Commander. They must be destroyed.
Alright, so we get to see that the Blue alien two respect someone who keeps fighting and keeps going onwards. He tells her he respects them for their courage.
Blue alien one seems to dismiss this, having a mindset of warrior, honor and aggressivity. She says that these enemies *must be destroyed,* because it’s the salamandrian way.
>Blue aliens goes to these outwolder. And blue alien one says hostile: You downed our ship, dishonored us. Now you will fight us.
>White metal answers: Wait! Wait, wait, wait. We are all honorable beings here. We did not intend to damage your ship. Please, we can help one another in this desperate plight.
Alright, the white metal can seems knowledgeable about their culture, so this means their culture is about war, honor, and fighting, right? And this is directly what happens after.
>Blue alien two: It is true we are all trapped. Cooperation is survival here. But you are outworlders.
>Metal: Everyone is an outworlder on a world not their own.
>Outworlder 1: Listen, sister! We don't want to fight ya. You're clearly outnumbered.
Okay, why did outworlder 1 talk to her? She didn’t even say anything, she did not speak to anyone, not to metal, not to her friend and especially not to any of the outworlders. She wasn’t even close to him, but stood side by side with her friend. He just walked up and pointed at this girl who had said one line to nobody specific, then blue alien two had a whole back and forth thing, and outworlder 1 decides to threaten her specifically?
>Blue alien one hisses and points threatingly into outworlder’s chest: Numbers mean nothing. I do not fear you or your friends.
You would think blue alien one had more dialogue since she’s all about *“You must be destroyed,”*
However there’s a whole lot of back and forth between the outworlders and blue alien two. The blue alien one tho? She says nothing during this, and completely takes a backseat. For the most part, she idly stands in the background or is simply not in the frame at all. After some time where the different outworlders and Blue Alien two talks, blue alien two admits he considers to team work, something that blue alien one says nothing about, in fact, she doesn’t really react at all. Then one of the outworlders stretches their hand, which means a sign of combat.
You have just agreed to team work with these outworlders, and they flip you off. So of course the man blue alien is the yelling to attack them.
And of course you would attack them to death, especially when that’s the “salamandrian way.”
So these two opposite sides, that has shown no proof of why they should trust each other, begins to fight to what might probably be to death. It certainly was for Blue Alien One, right?
This is where I will break my format, but I hope that you see my point.
Mona Lisa and Raphael have only shown distrust and hostility towards each other for very VERY good reasons.
Sure, this is way better than the other turtles’ “love at first sight moment” however, five minutes into the episode, after them fighting to survive, Mona hurts Raphael’s brother and Raphael’s close friend. She threatens to kill his family and is actively doing so. So Raph roars to defend his brother and his close friend, sayin: “that’s it!” and then this stranger punched Raph. Suddenly, he’s head over heels and completely *trusting* her, despite actually not knowing if she’s a good guy or not. I would completely understand if he respected and admired her strength, but no.
He does not know if she’s good or bad, she is still a stranger who is has just beat up Donnie and April. He got punched, because he tried to defend his family and friends. Now he trusts her.
This is very out of character with Raph, who is distrustful of so many people, no matter their strengths. He respects people who are strong, but does not want to form any bond with them unless he knows a little more about them.
Raph was so hostile against Karai because she was a foot clan solider, despite actually beating him in season 1. He was distrustful of Bigfoot for being a giant ape who just fought them and was strong enough to rip trees up the ground. He only made the smallest mildest connection with them after seeing they were hurt, that they didn’t actually want to really harm them, and even then he wasn’t interested in making any kind of bond.
Sure, he can sense if a person is truly evil or not completely: like Fish Face, but we gotta think about Raph and Fish Face had fought each other over a long LONG periods of time, and both of them *agreed* to work together, and Raph still didn’t trust Fish face. Also Raph asked Fish Face about his life, having an actual heart to heart, a conversation and a talk, Raph STILL DID NOT TRUST FISH FACE! But Raph and Fishface still talked to each other.
FISH FACE HAD MORE CHEMISTRY WITH RAPH!
From Mona Lisa’s debut to the season’s finale (season 4) Mona Lisa had only appeared in three episodes. The first one we saw why RAPHAEL got a crush on her, and that they got together. We actually never get a real well earned proof to why Mona Lisa liked him. Neither in talk nor in action.
Regarding talk, they had zero conversation. He doesn’t figure her background story, her likes, dislikes or humor. Her family or her growing up. We know NOTHING. Oh, but what about the honor culture she comes from? This is how she actually acts:
In the show, Mona Lisa did preach about honor sure, but when the mountain fell on top of all of their enemies, finishing the battle before Mona Lisa and Sal could, Sal commander said: “We need to dig them up, it would be dishonorable to let them die like this.”
Mona Lisa said: “Let them freeze.”
This is the opposite of honor and courage.
In the episode, she was very adamant on not trusting any of these outworlder, she had no moral code on saving them despite her general talking about honor, and then suddenly, with less than three lines exhanged between them, one of these outerwolders jumps in front of her and asks if she’s impressed, and then she falls for him. WHAT?! She has no reason for actually falling for him, she legit fought him just like any of the other outworlders, and didn’t notice him anymore than any others. He wasn’t stronger, he wasn’t more stubborn, he wasn’t more honorful. He was an outwolder stranger. An obstacle. There were no signs from her end, that she saw him any differently than she saw the others. For her, it was just a group of strangers who hit her ship, stranded her and her commander, and then they fought. That’s it. Nothing more.
I want her to have a reason for liking Raph.
I want her to be impressed by him in the battle, by his raw anger, his bullheadedness his bravery, but he showed none of these signs, and she showed no sign of thinking of him any differently than others.
Also, I would want them to have at least ONE meaningful conversation, where he learns about her planet, or her background, or her dreams and wishes, just ANYTHING, but we get NOTHING. Raph is a curious person and ask how people are and what they are about, and what they are doing. But he does not ask her about anything. Heck, Raph got more deep conversations with FISHFACE, because he asked why he was in the FootClan and about his background.
Mona and Raph end up kissing in the same episode they met, without knowing shit about each other, and then she dips, which is also a thing that annoyed me.
She just fucking dibs out of the story, without us knowing if she would ever come back or not. Her whole screen time is, and is three episodes in season 4, two of which her only thing to do, is kiss Raphael.
She doesn’t interact with any of the other turtles.
She talks directly to three people total, Raphael (love interest) Sal commander (already established bond) and she threatens Bishop at one point, but this scene is not to focus on her, but at how smitten Raph is.
Oh, also, Mona Lisa didn’t threaten the Kraangs, the insect people, the ultroms, the ice dragons, the bugs, or anyone else. She had only threatened the group in their first fight/first meeting, stopped threatening people all together and then threatened Bishop because Raph was in that interaction as well. Mona Lisa had shown no aggression otherwise, nor a display of honor or courage. This can be read as written in only for Raphael’s sake and not as an established part of her core.
And the whole “two aliens from different planets” just made me wonder, how this would even work out in the long run, and this made it seem even more shallow, like a summer fling or something. Why did people call her his girlfriend, when there were literally no way that they were going to live together.
Well, anyway, so Mona Lisa left her job, her family and friends (none of which we know if they exist or do not), culture and home planet, that she has preached so highly about, she left all of that for this alien to get to his planet, after knowing him for less than three days. Oh also, she shows no interest in earth, its culture or even his family and friends. The girl leaves all of her own things, the things that she had, the things she might or might not have worked hard for, the things that she knows aka her life, career and home for a boy that she has known for less than 72 hours, and this is painted as romantic.
Yes, they did see each other three times in season four, and I actually really liked their established couple dynamic, that was sweet, but her not having any personality other than what the plot/joke/writers demanded in the moment, and her being an alien from another planet who has to leave him repeatedly, and them not having any deep emotional conversations, all that sours the relationship for me.
If she was “agressive” it was literally only written for Raph to swoon over her. And in that same episode, she would also be the one, calm and collected to say to Raph, that she thinks his aggressivity and fighting mentality is a idea.
No matter what, people have a core personality that will shine through in their mannerism and what they focus on and what they notice. Mona Lisa is the most inconsistent character, flip-flopping between jokes for Raph to shine. Not herself, for Raph.
And I say this as a Raph fan in most iterations. I relate to him and find him funny. He himself is a big fan of roasting and banter and humor. Raphael is funny, emotionally deep, brave, dedicated, hotheaded, explosive and does everything big, and have I mentioned funny? Because a thing that has been pretty prevalent is his love for humor. I mentions this, because Mona Lisa shows none.
Overall, I think the romance writing is by far the weakest point in the show, with incest, stalking, and non-chalancy forced bored, but let’s look at the love interest and their consistency in their character traits/personalities:
Karai: Sassy, rebellious, manipulative, doesn’t want to destroy the world at first until her trust is betrayed. She wants the foot clan to become better.
April: Fierce, stubborn, wants to fight and hates being sidelined, overconfident in herself, caring, has her funny moments when she accidentally roasts Splinter.
Renet: Bubbly, social, clumsy and awkward. She finds Mikey’s goofiness funny.
I'm not saying the other romances are better, not at all, Ramona is objectively “the best” romance in the show, but that's not a high bar to walk over, when the others are stalking, incest and boring. But Mona Lisa is by far the weakest reacurring character, which made me disappointed, since I had otherwise heard so much high praise from the fandom, and had therefore been so excited.
snowghoul
prguitarman
kianamaiart
tangentwithtanner
s-u-f-j-a-n-s-t-e-v-e-n-s
titsay
izzy806
2087
